Fay In the case of death at sea it is most likely registered in London but will show up at the Scottish Record Office in 'Marine Returns'. This means you may not get full details of parents etc. I checked the local papers for a report of my ggrandfather's death. I didn't find it but may look again when I revisit Scotland. Jim McArthur

With regard to mortcloths: a mortcloth was used before people could afford coffins, and the body was merely wrapped in a winding sheet. The Mortcloth lent dignity to the occasion. Mortcloths were owned by the Church, or a Guild, and there were usually 2: - one of very good quality and design, with a high rental cost (often 10/-), and the other much cheaper and of an inferior cloth (around 1/3d) (These sums are merely what I have come across in my research). There was also sometimes a small one for children. There was a prestigious element in the use of the mortcloth - the dearer the mortcloth hired, the better the funeral. The cloths were rented out time after time, and cleaned, repaired and replaced from the rental fund, when necessary. The name in the mortcloth dues register, would normally have been that of the deceased, although I have seen entries such as: "Charles Elliot's wife", or "Charles Elliot's child". When coffins became the norm, the mortcloth became something of a status symbol, and was often draped over the coffin (as in modern-day state funerals, for example). An excellent book on the subject of death in Scotland is Anne Gordon's "Death is for the Living". Hope this is of some use to you. Janet Bishop Elgin, Moray

I have a Duncan McDiarmid and Elizabeth McGregor in a tree also. They were married c 1830, perhaps in Moulin, but certainly in Perthshire Kay > ______________________________

Well for a whole day I looked at all the births 17 May 1889 STEWART and STUART at Reg. Hse. Edinburgh and found nothing. There were dozens of MARY TERESA STEWART/STUARTS. Did not consider STEURD. The granddaughter of Mary married my first cousin in NSW and her Mother who was educated in the Loretta Convent in Calcutta gave me the details Xmas Day 1997. Stubbs did return to Kent England and died there but was given no useful info on that and I only know Mary STEWART/STUART/STUERD died at sea 1953. I just thought it is right for one who has a Mother to know from where in SCOTLAND one's roots lie for future generations. This list is the only hope of circulating the name of MARY TERESA STEWART/STUART/STEURD who was born 17 May 1889. Someone might happen to see the name whilst reseaching. It is doubtful if the Loretta Convent in Calcutta is still standing. Who would know and is this a place to look. I think it may no longer exist. Fay Will (Leven, Fife) e-mail address: faywill@leven54.freeserve.co.uk >Fay: where have you looked? Are you using the complete name? I have another >spelling for Stewart/Stuart = Steurd. From where does your information come? > Did Stubbs return to Scotland as well? Were the children with her on the >return trip? Let us know Cheers Jani > > >==== SCOTLAND-GENWEB Mailing List ==== >For up to date info, try: >http://www.scotland.net/ > >============================== >Support free genealogy on the Internet! Join RootsWeb.com today! > >

>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:04:31 +1000 >From: "Annie and Bill (plus Liam ) Stuart" <billannieliam@ozemail.com.au> >To: SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <028f01bf047d$493fbc00$9a0154d2@bill> >Subject: Let's try to remember why we are all here. >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Thought it was time to repost this. > > >"In the quiet of evening , >As the sun is sinking to rest, >I stand in this little old graveyard, with kind thoughts and goodly, >Lest, >Those of my unseen ancestors, >Who lie in this hallowed spot, >Should think that their children's children, >Have forgotten them-they have not. >Drawn to these very tombstones, >To quietly tarry anon, >And honour my silent forefathers, >For the fight that they fought and won." >Jack Higgins. > >Annie >billannieliam@ozemail.com.au Annie - thankyou. Others may find it odd, but my main purpose when I visit Scotland is to stand where my ancestors stood, to look out and see what they saw, to (hopefully) feel what they felt, and to marvel at their courage in deciding to emigrate to an unknown country on the other side of the world knowing they would never see their family, friends or homeland again. These quiet times are very private and very important. __________________________ Keith Dash Sydney, Australia

Hi All, I will post what I have on the early part of our history but I have nothing further back than Alexander & I can't find any in LDS either . If any of you find him could you let me know please. Many of the names of places are unknown on any parish registers I look in. Alexander was born @ 1750 in Ardchattan. He was known to have been a gardener in Ianachan in 1810. He married Margaret/Janet McIntyre of Ardincaple. They had a son (the only one I can find) John McInnes? (curious about the name change). He was baptized in June 1797 in Kilbrandon, he married Janet Willison of Glasgow in Dec 1820. They married in the Barony of Lanark. They had 6 children, Alex 5/1822, John 11/1824, Donald 7/1826, Mary 5/1828, Janet 7/1833 7 Margaret 2/1837. He remarried Helen Smith, July 1827, of Gigha in August 1849. They had 8 children, Isabella 7/1850, John 10/1851 (our line, but I can't find him in LDS, I can find all the others though?), James 2/1853, Alexander 5/1855, Helen 9/1856, Hector 3/1859, Peter 2/1861, & Archibald 1862. All born in Kilcalmonell &Kilberry, Argyll. I don't know what happened to the marriage with Janet Willison. I would love to find out about Alexander's parents or siblings if any of you find a link. This family ended up in Stirling. John McInnes's (1851) son John married there. PS (I apologize if any of you get this repeated through my other lists) Best wishes Carolyn McInnes mcinnes@net2000.com.au

I am hoping we get an educated answer to your question from someone on the list. We have just recently started researching mortcloth rentals. And we do not know if the person listed is the name of the deceased or the name of the person paying the rental to the church. Have had someone else ask a very basic question which we cannot answer -- if they "rent" the use of the mortcloth, does that mean that the mortcloth was reused numerous times? Was the tradition stopped when the populace became more educated on the possibility of transmitting a disease? Someone out there should know the answers. Help!!! Don and Mary in Wyoming, USA >Hello John and Mary: could/would you please give an explanation regarding >mortcloths and, etc. I'm sorry if this has been addressed before But I know >little about the actual burial rights in Scotland and have come to realize >that it may help me in my search, Cheer and Thanks Jani > > >==== SCOTLAND-GENWEB Mailing List ==== >Visit.. ScotlandGenWeb > http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctwgw/ > >============================== >Support free genealogy on the Internet! Join RootsWeb.com today! >

Hi I would like to thank everyone who replied to my query you are all most helpful. Regards ray

Hi Fay, You say that your anscestor died at sea while returning to Scotland, does that mean her death was registered in Scotland on the return of the vessel? If so it will give you her parents names on her death certificate. Hope this helps. Regards ray

4 Aug 1807 Robt Meikle 0 1 11 1/2 Presume list of tithing Mortcloth Rentals 1767 - 1813 James Mukle -- 4 -- Feb 1769 John Mickle's wife (spelling of first name in not legible) -- 6 - 6 Aug 1773 Marion Meikle -- 5 - 6 Aug 1774 Mar. Mukle -- 5 - 6 Feb 1775 John Mukle Little Kype -- 9 - 6 see note below Marion Mukle -- 5 - 6 " Marion Mukle -- 5 - 6 " Marion Mukle sp to Alexr Cairns (sp?) -- 5 - 6 see note below Eliz Mukle wife to Rob. Wilson -- 9 - 6 " Oct 27 1778 Thomas Mukle -- 5 - 6 May 10 1780 John Meikle -- 9 - 6 May 12 1789 Richard Meikle Tweedsdale -- 9 - 6 Jan 7 1797 Marion Mukle from Glasford -- 4 - 6 Nov 8 1797 John Mukle Little Kype -- 4 - 6 Notes: Cost of the mortcloth is broken into sections: There were no numbers in the first column on any of them Second column I think is pounds Third column I think is pence If we are wrong on the costs etc, someone please correct us. Burials - 1852 and 1853 Apr 26 1852 William Meikle aged 9 m Don and Mary in Wyoming

Could sks with access to the 1881 census please look up the following for me? John MACKENZIE/MCKENZIE and wife Jessie (nee DAVIDSON) with children Margaret (b.1854), Jessie (b.1857), John (b.1861), Isabella (b.1863). Duncan Alexander (b. 1867) and Helen Trail (b.1869). John was living in Elgin, Moray when he married Dec. 16, 1853. They may have moved to Liberton. His son John (b.1861) married Elizabeth Jamieson (b. 1858, Rothes, Moray) on Nov. 30, 1882 in Burdiehouse Limeworks, Liberton. John's occupation was listed as Mason and his son John (b1861) as Mason Journeyman. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much, Arleen

Subject: 1881 Census Lookup - MacKenzie Hi Arleen, > Could sks with access to the 1881 census please look up the > following for me? Is this the family you are looking for: Dwelling: 45 High Street Census Place: Elgin, Elgin, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203433 GRO Ref Volume 135 EnumDist 4 Page 9 John MC KENZIE Mar 51 Kilmorak, Inverness, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Mason Journeyman Jessie MC KENZIE Mar 50 Elgin, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Wife Occ: Masons Wife John MC KENZIE u/m 19 M Elgin, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Mason Journeyman Jessie PURVIES 2 Elgin, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Grd Child Dwelling: King Street The Chanonry Census Place: Elgin, Elgin, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0203433 GRO Ref Volume 135 EnumDist 5 Page 20 In the house of: Elsie MC WILLIAM W 66 F Aberdeen, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Interest Of Money Eliza JAMIESON U 22 F Rothes, Elgin, Scotland Rel: Servant Occ: Domes Serv Cook > John MACKENZIE/MCKENZIE and wife Jessie (nee DAVIDSON) with children > Margaret (b.1854), Jessie (b.1857), John (b.1861), Isabella (b.1863). Duncan Alexander (b. 1867) and Helen Trail (b.1869). >John was living in Elgin, Moray when he married Dec. 16, 1853. >They may have moved to Liberton. His son John (b.1861) married >Elizabeth Jamieson (b. 1858, Rothes, Moray) on Nov. 30, 1882 in >Burdiehouse Limeworks, Liberton. John's occupation was listed as >Mason and his son John (b1861) as Mason Journeyman. >Any help would be greatly appreciated. Bonnie B.

It didn't bother me you put the names up separately. If you had put them all together everyone would be complaining they were confused. When the name doesn't concern me I just delete it. Keep on posting. Betsy New York State Dawn Ellis wrote: > On 21 Sep 99 at 11:22, SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.co wrote: > > > As soon as I saw the second one, I deleted it. Same with all the others. > > You wouldn't have deleted if you were interested in one of the names. > > If I had listed all the surnames in one subject line they would not > all show! > > I'm sorry that some people have nothing better to do than complain > because somebody does things differently from them. If I see > messages that annoy me or that I'm not interested in I just delete > them! > > Sorry to have caused such a stir!!!!! > > Dawn Ellis > > mellis@nbnet.nb.ca > > ICQ # 33205877 > > URL > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Shores/4047 > > ==== SCOTLAND-GENWEB Mailing List ==== > GENUKI -Main Scotland Page > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ > > ============================== > Support free genealogy on the Internet! Join RootsWeb.com today!

What is McDiramid, as I have them in the tree also.. Elizebeth McGregor m to Duncan McDiramid, it is spelt many ways.... -----Original Message----- From: Ann Stadden <astadden@execulink.com> To: SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.com <SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 8:55 PM Subject: Re: McDiramid >I'm sorry give me a clue, as to what you are asking..I answer so many a week >I'm not sure what I sent to you..Annie >-----Original Message----- >From: Michael & Carolyn McInnes <mcinnes@net2000.com.au> >To: SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.com <SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.com> >Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 6:01 PM >Subject: Re: McDiramid > > >>Hi Ann, >> >>I was wondering if this could also be McDiarmid? >> >>Carolyn McInnes >> >> >> >>==== SCOTLAND-GENWEB Mailing List ==== >>Visit.. ScotlandGenWeb >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctwgw/ >> >>============================== >>Search the Social Security Death Index online for FREE! >>http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ >>The most powerful SSDI search engine on the Internet! >> >> > > >==== SCOTLAND-GENWEB Mailing List ==== >GENUKI -Main Scotland Page >http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ > >============================== >Search the Social Security Death Index online for FREE! >http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ >The most powerful SSDI search engine on the Internet! > >

Could you look up Alexander Ferrier and Jean Stratton Croll. I know that they lived in Montrose prior to Feb. 25, 1827, the birth of their son, James. They had two other children, Susan and Elizabeth, also born in Montrose. I know that their son James eventually moved to Brechin with his wife Jane Corneil, but I am uncertain if his parents remained in Montrose. Thanks for your help! Nicole Ferrier Researching: Ferrier, Hutton, Farquhar, Corneil, Croll, Hurlburt, Wujcik, Bianca, Leyva(Leva), Lupo, Santoro, Bielodo, and Rinaudo.

And for those who don't read the bottom of the messages (which have some pretty good links, BTW) click below, type in your surname, or even place name, or whatever you might want to search for on this list - and, if you don't want to read all the messages that come your way, unsubscribe, then just track the archives! See, there is a alternative! http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl Happy hunting to all.

I'm sorry give me a clue, as to what you are asking..I answer so many a week I'm not sure what I sent to you..Annie -----Original Message----- From: Michael & Carolyn McInnes <mcinnes@net2000.com.au> To: SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.com <SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 6:01 PM Subject: Re: McDiramid >Hi Ann, > >I was wondering if this could also be McDiarmid? > >Carolyn McInnes > > > >==== SCOTLAND-GENWEB Mailing List ==== >Visit.. ScotlandGenWeb > http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctwgw/ > >============================== >Search the Social Security Death Index online for FREE! >http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ >The most powerful SSDI search engine on the Internet! > >

Hi all, I only have one McDiarmid in our tree & she was born Margaret McDiarmid in Nov 1800 in Gigha. She married John Smith in July 1820 & died in Oct 1876 in Rhunaharine. They had 2 daughters (that I know of) Mary & Helen Smith. Helen married John McInnes (his second marriage)1849. They went on to have 8 children & there were 7 from his first marriage. If anyone see's anything familiar pleeeease contact me. here's hoping Carolyn McInnes

I usually ignore problems but this one is just so sad so I'm commenting. What a shame Lucille but take courage. The same thing happened to me when I first started posting to lists and I felt just the same as you do. Most of the people on this list are very helpful so I hope you decide to post away to your hearts content and may you find all your long lost ancestors. Best wishes, Annie. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lucille A Richmond <cwrichmond@snet.net> To: <SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 1999 8:24 Subject: Re: IGNORE THE WHINERS > An occurrence similar to this happened to me on one of the other lists; it > made me so self-conscious about writing or replying that I didn't do so for > a month! Now I just "lurk" and hope to goodness that no one sees me there > in the corner ... > > Lucille > -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond W. M. Henderson. <batman@diesel.net.au> > To: SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.com <SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 3:46 PM > Subject: Re: IGNORE THE WHINERS > > > >Yes it's the old saying! > >"You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please > some of > >the people all the time" > >Thank God I'm not new on this list it would be enough to make me run a > mile! > >Get over it folks please and support each other, life is to short for all > >this!.... > >Raymond Henderson. > >Bendigo, Victoria, Australia. > > > >joel voorhees wrote: > > > >> It didn't bother me you put the names up separately. If you had put them > all > >> together everyone would be complaining they were confused. When the name > >> doesn't concern me I just delete it. Keep on posting. > >> > >> Betsy > >> New York State > >> > >> Dawn Ellis wrote: > >> > >> > On 21 Sep 99 at 11:22, SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.co wrote: > >> > > >> > > As soon as I saw the second one, I deleted it. Same with all the > others. > >> > > >> > You wouldn't have deleted if you were interested in one of the names. > >> > > >> > If I had listed all the surnames in one subject line they would not > >> > all show! > >> > > >> > I'm sorry that some people have nothing better to do than complain > >> > because somebody does things differently from them. If I see > >> > messages that annoy me or that I'm not interested in I just delete > >> > them! > >> > > >> > Sorry to have caused such a stir!!!!! > >> > > >> > Dawn Ellis > >> > > >> > mellis@nbnet.nb.ca > >> > > >> > ICQ # 33205877 > >> > > >> > URL > >> > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Shores/4047 > >> > > >> > ==== SCOTLAND-GENWEB Mailing List ==== > >> > GENUKI -Main Scotland Page > >> > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ > >> > > >> > ============================== > >> > Support free genealogy on the Internet! Join RootsWeb.com today! > >> > >> ==== SCOTLAND-GENWEB Mailing List ==== > >> GENUKI -Main Scotland Page > >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ > >> > >> ============================== > >> Search the Social Security Death Index online for FREE! > >> http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ > >> The most powerful SSDI search engine on the Internet! > > > > > >==== SCOTLAND-GENWEB Mailing List ==== > >Beware of the Genealogy Bug; > >It's bite can be addictive! > > > >============================== > >Support free genealogy on the Internet! Join RootsWeb.com today! > > > > > ==== SCOTLAND-GENWEB Mailing List ==== > Genealogy Help List > http://posom.com/hl/ > > ============================== > Support free genealogy on the Internet! Join RootsWeb.com today! > >

In Scotland we have a tradition of being hospitable to those we invite into our homes. By joining this list we have invited each other into our homes, albeit electronically. This being the case we should not make our guests feel uncomfortable and perhaps more importantly you should not make my guests uncomfortable. Your Highland ancestors and mine took such matters as a slight upon their honour and challenged the offender to a duel. John Shearer -----Original Message----- From: lcoultel@bellsouth.net <lcoultel@bellsouth.net> To: SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.com <SCOTLAND-GENWEB-L@rootsweb.com> Date: 22 September 1999 00:07 Subject: Ignore The Whiners >You know my Mother always taught me that it was better to keep your >mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and leave no doubt. I >probably should keep it shut this time but I think it is a shame that >people criticize people when they are doing the best they know how to >search for their ancestors. I don't usually respond to trivial things >like this, but I have had my share of rude individuals trying to show >their intelligence. >Linda > > >==== SCOTLAND-GENWEB Mailing List ==== >Visit.. ScotlandGenWeb > http://www.rootsweb.com/~sctwgw/ > >============================== >Search the Social Security Death Index online for FREE! >http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ >The most powerful SSDI search engine on the Internet! >