Hi Dave, these books are in libraries. There are more libraries with copies in the world than individuals who have a copy. Unless people have looked for this book (it's called 'research'), they may visit a library with a copy every week and not know it's there, so find a library where it is and get soemone to retrieve it for you. I always check LDS first because: 1. what it has you can get by ordering and 2. it's the world's largest genealogical library. However this is not in the card catalog. It might still have it in some collection in it, but moving on...... So go to http://www.worldcatlibraries.org. Enter the name of the book and then where you are. I entered PA and found there were copies at these libraries; Duquesne University Library Pittsburgh, PA 15282 Microform 2.Edinboro University of Pennsylvania Edinboro, PA 16444 Microform 3.Indiana University of Pennsylvania Indiana, PA 15705 Microform 4.University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 Microform 5.University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 15260 Microform 6.West Chester University W Chester, PA 19383 Microform Services: Ask a librarian I tried South Africa and found none. Possibly worldcat doesn't include SA University libraries yet -- a little investigation will tell. I tried New Zealand becuase I wasn't sure (being American) if you are in it or South Africa.....Zilch. But probably IS in either place in a research library. However as all the copies are on microform I figure it is in a collection. On the second try of the above list I found a catalog that actually provided useful info. It's in the Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 465:9. . I clicked on this entry for more information about the collection and found it is indeed part of the UMI, now Proquest collection. This is a huge fiche collection often found in university libraries. http://www.proquest.com/ So get on the Internet and check the on line catalogs of universities either near you or near where you got friends. Or phone the librarian. He/she will NOT know if they got this book unless they are "Data" -- ie got the whole card catalog in their brain. They may know if they got the UMI collection "Early English Books". They may know it by Proquest. On occasion I've contacted Proquest and gotten the names of institutions local to me that did have the research collection I required. You may need to contact a librarian whose specialty is the microform collection of your local university to find someone who knows the collection though the card catalog is really what you want, if it is on line or you can get to it. I do not know if you can get microform via internlibrary loan. Anyone know??? This is the hard part -- it's called 'research' and it's what we don't know how to do unless we've gotten a college degree or two. It's the one useful thing I learned in grad school other than to get out of grad school as fast as I could before an English major slit my throat. the university I was at was cutting the English grad class in half before the 2nd year. I was not in the English program but stuck in some of the same classes as these cutthroats who didn't want to go to 'Nam. So much for the community of scholars, this was more like swimming with sharks...... Most of my other education I never found useful for feeding myself at all but it really came in handy when doing genealogy!! Like Latin (Scottish court records) and linguistics (surnames), etc, etc. Unfortunately genealogy is not a good way to feed myself either <grin>!! If only this meant I was thin..... Do you have a child or relative in college? Maybe they can view this for you?? I don't know when I will get into Pittsburgh to either the University of PGH or Duquesne but as this is a fairly standard collection, I would be most universities got it. As the book was published in 1691 and apparently not republished, it's rather hard to find in individual collections. It might be published in another book under a different name.....more research but I gotta go make some money today. Do more googling. I found all this out by googling. If you can google you don't need to risk your life in a grad school shark tank. Unfortunately most Scotch Irish believe their ancestor was inside during the Siege of Derry. Most of our ancestors were more likely to be in Scotland (lots of immigration to Ulster AFTER the Siege). some of our ansectors were outside.....I hate to bring this up. I worry about my McKibbon ancestors....could they have been the McGribbons who were outside???? Hmmmmmmm. I got Mitchells in Polmont, Scotland in the 1700s, though the place was infested with all kinds. I descend from the 'chicken scratch' Mitchells. Our baptisms were entered into the records in chicken scratch. There was family of gentry whose first and last names were identical to mine, but their baptisms were recorded in huge, flowery script. However they failed to produce a male heir (<grin>!). Only way to tell them apart was view the actual parish records. Then you could tell with no difficulty at all. Linda Merle -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Dave Mitchell" <mitch@pixie.co.za> > Hi Brian > > > > I really enjoyed your story on Capt. William Beatty. > > > > Any idea where I might find someone who has access to Rev. John Mackenzie's > Narrative on the Siege? > > > > An entry for a kinsman, W. J. Mitchell JP, that I found in a Biographical > History for York County, Toronto, includes the somewhat grand statement > (after proclaiming that his father, James Mitchell, lived till almost 100 > years old) that: > > > > "The family trace their ancestry back to a more remote date, their name > being mentioned by Mackenzie in his narrative of the famous siege of Derry, > on the side of the defenders." > > > > Needless to say, I'm hoping this might shed some light on my 17th Century > MITCHELL's. > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > David Mitchell > > Cape Town > > South Africa > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Orr" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 7:40 PM > Subject: BEATTY > > > > For those interested in BEATTY, the following extract is from History of > > the Siege of Londonderry by Rev John Graham. p 249. > > > > Captain William Beatty, a distinguished officer at the siege of Derry. He > > was in the custom and almost daily habit of going out cf the city with > > small parties, and seldom returned without doing some execution on the > > enemy, or bringing in some small prey. In the latter end of June, Captain > > Beatty was seized with a violent flux which rendered him useless to the > > garrison, so he took protection from the enemy and went to his residence > > at Moneymore, to try if he could recover his health. Mr. Mackenzie, the > > Presbyterian minister of Cookstown, who went with his congregation to > > defend this city on this memorable occasion. and who published a > > well-known narrative of the siege afterwards, says. that Captain William > > Beatty had been in all the encounters and skirmishes with the enemy > > before he left the city, and ever behaved himself with great integrity and > > valour. He was the grandfather of the late Archdeacon Beatty, of Maydown, > > in the county of Longford; grandfather of Ross Beatty, of Clones Esq, and > > father of Mr. James Beatty, a respectable merchant of Newry sixty years > > ago, who was never known to cross the Boyne Water, without alighting from > > his horse and returning solemn thanks to God for the great deliverance of > > this country, by the signal victorv gained by King William, on the banks > > of that river. > > > > > > > > Brian > > >