On 03 Feb, 2006, at 13:56, Mike Kennedy wrote: > My question is this: > > How hard would it be for Rootsweb or volunteers to start our own > competitive PROFIT-MAKING organization, to carry own messages and > bypass those companies like AOL and Yahoo who don't want our > business? Possibly even provide a nationwide, inexpensive, high- > speed, CHEAP internet access for ALL genealogists. The issue is NOT with Rootsweb or its server. The issue is with AOL and apparently, in the not too distant future, with Yahoo! Those Email services are going to charge you to receive mail from anyone EXCEPT another AOL subscriber (if you are an AOL member) or another Yahoo! subscriber (if you are a Yahoo! subscriber. This is ON TOP of your regular subscription fee. (Yeah, I know Yahoo! is "free," but you get what you pay for.) The problem is that for any "mailing list" -- which Scotch-Irish-L is -- MUST pay AOL, and apparently Yahoo! to send email to any subscriber who happens to use either of those services. Having volunteers support RootsWeb (which they already do) would make no difference, AOL and Yahoo! will still charge the Scotch-Irish mailing list (as well as any other mailing list) to send mail to their subscribers. Oh, AOL and Yahoo! will make the claim that they are not charging you that the charge is being paid by the Mailer ... i.e. the Scotch-Irish mailing list. So that means that SOMEBODY (hope Linda has a big banking account) has to pay "Goodmail" everytime somebody sends a message to the list. Now what was not said in the letter, but is the only reason I can see that a failing service like AOL would go with Goodmail, is that Goodmail will pay AOL a royalty for every message "approved" by its service. After all, this is how they make money on their advertising "clik-throughs," so why would they not try to come up with a scheme that allows them to make money on every email message sent to their subscribers? I have know the folks at L-Soft for many, many years -- They have been part of "the Net" since the "good ol days of BITNET." I know their principal's integrity and principles. They went from a purely academic operation on BITNET to a for-profit company when the Internet came into existence. They are good people. If they are concerned, then there is reason to be concerned. As far as the other idea -- becoming a profit-making company... AOL is NOT a profit making company. That is why Time Warner is the name of the Company now, not "AOL-Time Warner." Why? because providing "cheap," let alone "high-speed" Internet access is NOT a cheap process. It is VERY difficult to make money in the ISP business today. When AOL was created, the "Baby Bells" were required to provide dial- up access to anyone who wanted to start a company, at a substantial discount to their own rates. High-Speed Data Services (DSL, Sprint's so-called "broadband access", Cable Modem access, etc.) are NOT rate- controlled by the FCC or any state Public Utility Commission. Consequently, they do not provide "bulk" discounts to folks who would like to use their facilities. The other major problem for a business plan is ... How many Genealogists are there? How many Genealogists who do not already have a "better deal" for an ISP? I spent 30 years supporting the ARPAnet, Internet and Internet2, providing RELIABLE computing services is expensive. Providing RELIABLE networking service is even more expensive... and the higher the speed, the more expensive and less reliable things get. ISPs suffer from what is called in the Utility Business -- Peak Load Demand. That means that you must be capable of handling EVERYONE who wants to use your service AT THE SAME TIME ... because they just might do it. The Electricity GRID shows the strains of this with Brownouts and Blackouts. If you have 1000 subscribers, they just might all want to use the system at 10pm EST on a Friday night. Those 1000 subscribers won't use the system at all from 6am to 3pm on Monday, but you can't move the capacity they didn't use on Monday over to Friday night. T.T.F.N. William H. Magill # Beige G3 [Rev A motherboard - 300 MHz 768 Meg] OS X 10.2.8 # Flat-panel iMac (2.1) [800MHz - Super Drive - 768 Meg] OS X 10.4.1 # PWS433a [Alpha 21164 Rev 7.2 (EV56)- 64 Meg] Tru64 5.1a # XP1000 [Alpha 21264-3 (EV6) - 256 meg] FreeBSD 5.3 # XP1000 [Alpha 21264-A (EV 6.7) - 384 meg] FreeBSD 5.3 magill@mcgillsociety.org magill@acm.org magill@mac.com whmagill@gmail.com

Sorry but whats the big deal ? I dislike the puerile advertising etc on TVand exercise the right to press the off button on the remote. So dont use AOL /Yahoo and let the market forces tell them the facts of life. Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: William H. Magill To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] AOL - Rootsweb - Free emails - Cheep internet question On 03 Feb, 2006, at 13:56, Mike Kennedy wrote: > My question is this: > > How hard would it be for Rootsweb or volunteers to start our own > competitive PROFIT-MAKING organization, to carry own messages and > bypass those companies like AOL and Yahoo who don't want our > business? Possibly even provide a nationwide, inexpensive, high- > speed, CHEAP internet access for ALL genealogists. The issue is NOT with Rootsweb or its server. The issue is with AOL and apparently, in the not too distant future, with Yahoo! Those Email services are going to charge you to receive mail from anyone EXCEPT another AOL subscriber (if you are an AOL member) or another Yahoo! subscriber (if you are a Yahoo! subscriber. This is ON TOP of your regular subscription fee. (Yeah, I know Yahoo! is "free," but you get what you pay for.) The problem is that for any "mailing list" -- which Scotch-Irish-L is -- MUST pay AOL, and apparently Yahoo! to send email to any subscriber who happens to use either of those services. Having volunteers support RootsWeb (which they already do) would make no difference, AOL and Yahoo! will still charge the Scotch-Irish mailing list (as well as any other mailing list) to send mail to their subscribers. Oh, AOL and Yahoo! will make the claim that they are not charging you that the charge is being paid by the Mailer ... i.e. the Scotch-Irish mailing list. So that means that SOMEBODY (hope Linda has a big banking account) has to pay "Goodmail" everytime somebody sends a message to the list. Now what was not said in the letter, but is the only reason I can see that a failing service like AOL would go with Goodmail, is that Goodmail will pay AOL a royalty for every message "approved" by its service. After all, this is how they make money on their advertising "clik-throughs," so why would they not try to come up with a scheme that allows them to make money on every email message sent to their subscribers? I have know the folks at L-Soft for many, many years -- They have been part of "the Net" since the "good ol days of BITNET." I know their principal's integrity and principles. They went from a purely academic operation on BITNET to a for-profit company when the Internet came into existence. They are good people. If they are concerned, then there is reason to be concerned. As far as the other idea -- becoming a profit-making company... AOL is NOT a profit making company. That is why Time Warner is the name of the Company now, not "AOL-Time Warner." Why? because providing "cheap," let alone "high-speed" Internet access is NOT a cheap process. It is VERY difficult to make money in the ISP business today. When AOL was created, the "Baby Bells" were required to provide dial- up access to anyone who wanted to start a company, at a substantial discount to their own rates. High-Speed Data Services (DSL, Sprint's so-called "broadband access", Cable Modem access, etc.) are NOT rate- controlled by the FCC or any state Public Utility Commission. Consequently, they do not provide "bulk" discounts to folks who would like to use their facilities. The other major problem for a business plan is ... How many Genealogists are there? How many Genealogists who do not already have a "better deal" for an ISP? I spent 30 years supporting the ARPAnet, Internet and Internet2, providing RELIABLE computing services is expensive. Providing RELIABLE networking service is even more expensive... and the higher the speed, the more expensive and less reliable things get. ISPs suffer from what is called in the Utility Business -- Peak Load Demand. That means that you must be capable of handling EVERYONE who wants to use your service AT THE SAME TIME ... because they just might do it. The Electricity GRID shows the strains of this with Brownouts and Blackouts. If you have 1000 subscribers, they just might all want to use the system at 10pm EST on a Friday night. Those 1000 subscribers won't use the system at all from 6am to 3pm on Monday, but you can't move the capacity they didn't use on Monday over to Friday night. T.T.F.N. William H. Magill # Beige G3 [Rev A motherboard - 300 MHz 768 Meg] OS X 10.2.8 # Flat-panel iMac (2.1) [800MHz - Super Drive - 768 Meg] OS X 10.4.1 # PWS433a [Alpha 21164 Rev 7.2 (EV56)- 64 Meg] Tru64 5.1a # XP1000 [Alpha 21264-3 (EV6) - 256 meg] FreeBSD 5.3 # XP1000 [Alpha 21264-A (EV 6.7) - 384 meg] FreeBSD 5.3 magill@mcgillsociety.org magill@acm.org magill@mac.com whmagill@gmail.com