Hi Charles, These people are 90% likely to be Scotch Irish. Check out the history of Scots in New England? There are colonial Scots there but they are few, and they had a very unique history. Largely they assimilated into the English Yankee culture by marrying the daughters of the men they were first enslaved to (Cromwell shipped them off as slaves in the 1650s). Do you know the history of the relationship of England and Scotland? Or do you think that the way things are (the "United Kingdom") is how it was in Chaucer's day and every day since? It wasn't. You need to understand the times when Scottish ships and Scottish merchants were foreigners and NOT welcomed in the English colonies. This is not to say a few were not here -- but there were few Scots in NE except for those in the pubs on the waterfront of Boston, Providence, oh and Ptown (etc). There were also Scots colonies in like New Jersey and Maryland, but you need to be aware of the dates when they were established. I gave a lecture on Scots and SI in NE in Cape Cod a couple years ago and had to read up on it to deliver without being bashed by rotten tomatoes <grin>. Three books to read. It really helps you make sense of things: David Dobson "Scots in New England", David Dobson "Scottish Emigration to Colonial America" and Michael O'Brien "Pioneer Irish in New England". O Brien will steer you towards addition records in NE. Dobson is in Scotland. He cannot much help you to do colonial research, but then, that's why you are a member of NEHGS, right?!!! The way that they kept records is by town up thar in NE. Your ancestors are named in the town records whether they are Scots, IRish, aliens from Mars, etc. When you have gathered as much info as you can, you profile them and then you learn to do migration research. Theer's some great free courses on the INternet: www.genealogy.com/university.html . I do genealogy professionally and I still return frequently because....I missed things the first 34 times. Then you must learn to do Irish genealogy in the 18th century. If you take any courses on it y ou will learn it is impossible to trace 'average' people before 1820 in Ireland! if you don't know this, you do need to do a little reading. The good news is this is not true, esp for Protestants. They are far more likely to be named in the weird, strange records that they did manage to keep in Ireland before church records. BUT you gotta learn about how to find and use those records. YOu gotta have some info on your ancestor already. No matter how many Scotch Irish genes you got, you gotta learn this. And it's a lot like hiking to Pittsburgh in 1746: Only a couple people have done it. There's no "Scotch IRish genelaogy for Idiots" that's been written yet. I wish.... That's why we have this list -- to learn from one another so we can someday write "Scotch Irish Genealogy for Idiots". I'm just trying to make sure you understand it ain't easy. I hope you weren't expecting that it was! It's dang interesting though. Unfortunately New England based SI genealogy seems the most neglected of all....a few are interested, but most aren't. NEHGS is not. The Irish up there exclude us from their organizations and we've not created any of our own. So it's a lot like living in Worcester in 1740 <grin>! In fact I just left and moved to Pittsburgh, where it's much more friendly. Worcester, where I lived for a number of years in the 1970s and then the last 5 years, is where the first potatoes were eaten in the New World, introduced by a Gaelic Irish family named YOUNG (unproven, source is Hanna). The Youngs I think are still there but most ditched Worcester when the local English rioted and tore down the Presbyterian meeting house. The local Yankees are still proud to show you where they tore it down. A lot of VT, NH and western MA are Scotch Irish homelands -- but we left or assimilated into Yankees. As fer the surname analysis, you really cannot base a respectable genealogical study on it. People in the UK moved about freely. British genealogical conferences often include a lecture on the turnover of surnames in the most traceable parishes -- in England. They turned over about every 100 years. Yet people still think that surnames only originated in one place, like some kind of mutant plant, and spread out from there. Not so, esp. with Mc names (if you think there was one 'son of John' in all of Scotland and Ireland, see me about a great deal on a bridge!!). It's not tooo likely your ancestor was in Canada 'for a quite a while' unless he was an Indian or French. Before the mid 1700s it was part of Canada. Then there was a war. We call it the French and Indian War in the USA. It resulted in a very nasty atrocity perpetrated by ourselves on the French. However there were a number of people taken captive in New England by the Indians/French -- a study of the history reveals some surnames. The thing about ship captains is that they got around -- A LOT. Your man may have had a lady in every port in colonial USA. Where he was from you may be able to discover through some detailed work, if it's not been learned already. Just don't neglect checking PERSI in case someone published his entire history. A lot of people think surfing the web is all that's needed., NO! IT'll disclose a lot of bull (pardon!) and nonsense believed by the naive (about 95 % of us <grin>), but the smart cousins publish their work the old fashioned way: in periodicals and books. These cousins know more than the other 95% percent, I might add. (you can get PERSI on the Internet <GRIN>). Unfortunately, when we get to the early 1700s, unless we learn how to do research in that time period, we will either not go anywhere (and take up needlepoint instead as a hobby) or we fall prey to a fool -- well intended or otherwise. I'm very fond of some foolishness of my own but I do know it's fool stuff that is not proven but is SO romantic. I just don't believe it....quite!!! Your surnames strike me as fairly common for that area. The thing is they didn't come over one by one. They all lived near each other in Ulster. So...finda place with the same surname mix. The early migrants that I am aware of often came from near Derry. Also as even the Irish American historians know, Donegal lost its people, Catholic and Prod, very eary because the soil was too poor to support it. See "Inventing Irish America" by Timothy J. Meagher. From my studies, it's true. For example there was a group of people of various religions who left Donegal around 1790 on the good ship Elisa. Many eventually settled in what would be Butler CO, PA. Also check the list archives (www.rootsweb.com). A list member discovered in Irish estate records where some early NE SI came from. He published an article, I beleive, and also gave us some info. THis stuff is not in Hanna or Bolton. It shows that by learning how to use Irish records, you can break new ground and shed immense light on the wilderness that is Ulster and Ulster American genealogy. Linda ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: charles <jitsu93@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:06:38 -0800 (PST) >Linda: > I have quite a few early 1700s settlers in what is now Lincoln Co., Maine. Most have Scot surnames and they most probably are Scotch-Irish. > > I have Cargill, Nickles, Holmes and McKown in that area. > > Today I did a "google" search for Scotch-Irish settlements in New England and there is a mention of a McCoun that fits my time frame and location. McCoun is phonetically McKown which appears on a family grave marker. Our family also has a McGown marriage in the mid 1700s. The McGowns were from Dresden, Maine. > > Back to McKown--my ancestor was Capt. Robert McKown, master mariner and son-in-law of Alexander Nickles, the last commander at Fort Frederick, Maine. I inserted Nickles here because there is an old article in a New Brunswick newspaper that relates to them. They were both early fishermen in the Passamaquoddy area of Maine and the story goes on that the Mckown family was at Sheepscot and McKowns father was killed and robert was taken prisoner to Canada. He may have been in Canada for quite awhile. > > I think that McKowns may have been in Temple's group. Alexander Nickles was also my ancestor. > > I can put McKown in Maine ca 1720 and I feel they may have entered the country with Temple . > > thanks, Charles > > P.S. I also have a Hugh Holmes I haven't had any luck with. Maybe Hugh was descended from Thomas or John Homes from Coleraine, NI. Thomas and John are mentioned in Bolton's book. > >Linda Merle <merle@fea.net> wrote: > Hi Charles, > >Don't know where you 'are' with this: starting out or ready to write the definitive work on it. Most of us here are waiting >for the person who had done all the work to join the list >and to post their life work free to us. > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Linda, I've enjoyed reading your educational emails to the list. My Criswell & Kilgore & Gill ancestors came to Pennsylvania and/or Maryland in the early 1700s. What advise can you offer to me for finding their link to Ulster or Scotland? I'm planning on enrolling in the Irish Research course on www.myfamily.com that starts in a couple of weeks with Sherry Irvine who I understand is terrific. Am not sure if her course covers both Northern Ireland and Ireland. Any advise you can offer for reading, courses, websites, etc would be appreciated. Bill Hawkins

Hello Linda & Charles et al, Linda, thank you VERY much for the detail on why we do not find much in the way of publications covering the New England Irish and Ulster Scots! I recently returned to genealogy after 30 years absence - that was well before the computer research days. It is now a whole new learning tangent on making my way through the many links. I am now settled in Southwest after growing up and bringing up family in Maine. I hope I will be able to find all the New England publications in the local libraries that you listed in your message. Realizing you have advised us that there is not much interest/articles about Ulster Scots in NE.... is anyone aware of articles shedding light on 'why/how' the U Scots went to N England, the state of Maine to be specific?? Charles, my, supposedly, Ulster Scots first show up in Exeter and Chester, ME in early 1800s. That is as far back as I can 'officially' tie into that family. The name is TASH (my maternal grandmother) and the story goes: Before I started genealogy I remember stories from my mother and her siblings that this TASH young man was shanghaied/conscripted in 'Ireland' along with his buddy off the street. They were put on a ship. As they neared the shore of Canada, I think..., they overheard people talking of how they would be made servants once ashore. The two young men jumped ship. They changed their name to TASH in the U.S. The earliest notes I find of the TASH name in New England is in the towns of Durham (New) and Dover in the State of New Hampshire stating: "Col. Thomas Tash, born 5 July, 1722, was of a family that came from near Belfast, Ireland, according to tradition. The original name was McIntash. His father was Jacob Tash, who married (2) Patience, daughter of James and Mary (Smith) Thomas in 1727." [pp. 143-4, Stackpole, Everett Schermerhorn, 'History of the town of Durham, New Hampshire (Oyster River Plantation): with genealogical notes' Durham, N.H.:Published by vote of the town, 1913, 952 pgs.] >From the snippet above, it sounds like Jacob Tash was in Northern Ireland in the 1720's. Also that his name would have been Jacob 'McIntash' or 'McIntosh'. I also believe his 2nd wife Patience might have been from the U.S. rather than Northern Ireland. No mention was made of a marriage (1). A town history in Chester, Maine, had a paragraph stating, "Rosetta Tash brought the dishes to Chester that her father and mother brought from Ireland." This is a later generation but probably from the same NH Tash line. So that is another reference connecting them to Ireland. Thank you very much for any help you can give me on finding where this Tash/McIntosh family emigrated from, when, etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Merle" <merle@fea.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Robert Temple & Settlers 1719-20 Hi Charles, <SNIP> Do you know the history of the relationship of England and Scotland?...You need to understand the times when Scottish ships and Scottish merchants were foreigners and NOT welcomed in the English colonies. This is not to say a few were not here -- but there were few Scots in NE except for those in the pubs on the waterfront of Boston, Providence, oh and Ptown (etc). There were also Scots colonies in like New Jersey and Maryland, but you need to be aware of the dates when they were established. <SNIP> Three books to read. It really helps you make sense of things: David Dobson "Scots in New England", David Dobson "Scottish Emigration to Colonial America" and Michael O'Brien "Pioneer Irish in New England". O Brien will steer you towards addition records in NE. The way that they kept records is by town up thar in NE. Your ancestors are named in the town records whether they are Scots, IRish, aliens from Mars, etc. When you have gathered as much info as you can, you profile them and then you learn to do migration research. Theer's some great free courses on the INternet: www.genealogy.com/university.html . I do genealogy professionally and I still return frequently because....I missed things the first 34 times. Then you must learn to do Irish genealogy in the 18th century. If you take any courses on it y ou will learn it is impossible to trace 'average' people before 1820 in Ireland! if you don't know this, you do need to do a little reading. The good news is this is not true, esp for Protestants. They are far more likely to be named in the weird, strange records that they did manage to keep in Ireland before church records. BUT you gotta learn about how to find and use those records. YOu gotta have some info on your ancestor already. No matter how many Scotch Irish genes you got, you gotta learn this. And it's a lot like hiking to Pittsburgh in 1746: Only a couple people have done it. There's no "Scotch IRish genelaogy for Idiots" that's been written yet. I wish.... Also check the list archives (www.rootsweb.com). A list member discovered in Irish estate records where some early NE SI came from. He published an article, I beleive, and also gave us some info. THis stuff is not in Hanna or Bolton. It shows that by learning how to use Irish records, you can break new ground and shed immense light on the wilderness that is Ulster and Ulster American genealogy. Linda ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: charles <jitsu93@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:06:38 -0800 (PST) >Linda: > I have quite a few early 1700s settlers in what is now Lincoln Co., > Maine. Most have Scot surnames and they most probably are Scotch-Irish. > > I have Cargill, Nickles, Holmes and McKown in that area. > > Today I did a "google" search for Scotch-Irish settlements in New England > and there is a mention of a McCoun that fits my time frame and location. > McCoun is phonetically McKown which appears on a family grave marker. Our > family also has a McGown marriage in the mid 1700s. The McGowns were from > Dresden, Maine. > > Back to McKown--my ancestor was Capt. Robert McKown, master mariner and > son-in-law of Alexander Nickles, the last commander at Fort Frederick, > Maine. I inserted Nickles here because there is an old article in a New > Brunswick newspaper that relates to them. They were both early fishermen > in the Passamaquoddy area of Maine and the story goes on that the Mckown > family was at Sheepscot and McKowns father was killed and robert was taken > prisoner to Canada. He may have been in Canada for quite awhile. > > I think that McKowns may have been in Temple's group. Alexander Nickles > was also my ancestor. > > I can put McKown in Maine ca 1720 and I feel they may have entered the > country with Temple . > > thanks, Charles