Hi Cynthia and thanks for the plug. One of the definitive works on British surnames is "A Dictionary of English Surnames" by Reaney and Wilson, that's available in paperback. It has an extensive introduction that provides a massive amount of information. Often funny. Under Patronymics on p. xix it says (under "Names in -son") "In Old English, patronymics were formed by adding -ing to the stem or -sunu to the genitive of the personal name: Dudding 'son of Dudd" and Eadricessumu 'son of Eadric' The later type was used as a patronymic adjunct: Hering Hussan sunu (603 ASC), a type found also in the eighth and ninth centuries and not uncommon in the names of the festermen of Peterborough (963-92)." Okay, what's a festerman? And who would believe there were people in England named Hussan in 600 AD? The really depressing thing is Jones is a variant on John. So now you know where there are a lot of them. It is a Welsh variant. The Welsh were forced to take surnames, finally, and they of course took surnames that were of the patronymic variety, which is how they all ended up named Jones. Apparently John was a popular first name. If you read up on the Normans who came to Ireland in the middle ages, you'll find out they were largely "Marcher Lords" -- men attempting to subdue and squeeze a profit out of the lands bordering Wales. Some in Wales and some nearby. When they settled in Ireland they brought with them tenants. Many of them of course Welsh. Little trace remains but maybe DNA. However in the late 1500s there was an English colony in the Belfast area that was 'lost' -- but the surnames remain in Belfast (See Bell "Book of Ulster Surnames". In addition several large servitors like Chichester were from the area of England bordering Wales. They brought over more surnames among their tenants. So there's plenty of Welsh in Ulster. Further south you'd have lots of Welsh brought to Ireland by marrauders and at least on Irish colony in Dark Age Wales. Probably more. It's close, after all. So kissing cousins, again. > was told was more likely to be welsh in origin...just a general question about > not being able to find a birth/christening record where the parish records seem > fairly good...thinking the best explanation is either it was just not > recorded...ministers day off?...illegitmacy..or a family who was not given > correct information as to grandparents...informant on a death certific! > ate..son..did not know grandmothers name...any ideas...thanks What kind of 'parish record' were you looking at? If you were viewing an index, even experts have a ten percent error rate. If you are viewing a transcription, well, even expert transcribers have a ten percent error rate. Much higher as you go back in time. Have you seen the handwriting?? OI! If you were viewing film of actual records, well, can you interpret the handwriting? Was a page ommited in the transcription? If you got a letter from a minister, minsters are not experts usually and often rarely are interested. There are no "How to read old parish records to help the genealogists free" classes in seminaries. You do encounter the occasional priest or minister who is very interested. Hire a professional. Occassionally in Ireland access to parish records is restricted and you have to be interviewed and have premission from the archbishop. A story told to me by a professional genealogist of her interview by nuns terrified me! Terrified her too! She had been prepared for! it by Catholic school, thank heavens, she said. People recording any record are human and make errors and experience lapses in consciousness (speaking personally). Also check a long time afterwards. You don't specify the religion or time, but there may not have been a local minister or priest. So all the kids got baptized at once 14 years later. Nothing in Irish records is straight forward. You need to study to learn what finding a record or not finding it might mean. Its possible the children were baptized elsewhere, in another denomination including Catholic. Few of those records exist before the 1820s though there are some Presbyterian. Best of luck! Linda Merle