Apparently I'm not that good of a reference because it took me a month to look up an answer to your question below. >Question: When did Croghan come on the scene?? According to "Pittsburgh - The Story of a City" (Baldwin, Univ. of Pittsburgh Press, 1938), Croghan already had a "plantation" (like Gist's plantation in what is now Fayette County, this was really just a rudimentary settlement of log houses) and trading post three miles up the Allegheny from the Forks of the Ohio (current Millvale/Etna) by the time George Washington first passed through the area in the fall of 1753. That seems a little odd to me since GW and Christopher Gist ended up falling in the Allegheny while trying to cross it on a makeshift raft during their return trip from Ft. LeBoeuf. If Croghan's post was that close - it was on the same side of the river - why wouldn't they have just walked one more mile and got a canoe? Doesn't make sense. At any rate, this same source says that Croghan's place was burned during Pontiac's Rebellion in 1763. I also recall that he had a rather large landholding called something like Aughwick, which was somewhere up in the Allegheny Mountains - maybe someplace near Ft. Shirley (current Shirleysburg), but I might be wrong about that. A snippet from Conrad Weiser's journal has Croghan with his trading post at Logstown (current Ambridge, PA, 20 miles further downriver) in August 1748. That Irishman apparently got around. It's been years since I read it, but I don't recall the journals from Celeron's 1749 expedition down the Allegheny and Ohio mentioning Croghan being above the Forks at that time. But I could be dead wrong about that (you'll note that I like to toss that in anytime I'm going from memory). Just to confuse the issue further, the following source has him building along the Allegheny in May 1766, which wouldn't have had him there in time for either GW or Pontiac's bonfire party: http://www.famousamericans.net/georgecroghan1782/ Go figure. Here's the Amazon.com link to Croghan's biography. I obviously haven't read it or I would already know all this, but maybe it has some answers: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0404067794/ref=cm_bg_d/103-4256596-2591 014?v=glance&n=283155 That was a long wait for nothing, now wasn't it? Rob -----Original Message----- From: Linda Merle [mailto:merle@mail.fea.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:30 AM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Subject: History Alert and W PA geography lesson Rob, we're glad you are back and clearly you are an under utilitized resource. Question: When did Croghan come on the scene?? Anyone here descended from Christopher Gist?? There was/is a list devoted to Ulster Scots, run by a guy with a Phd. He said it was probably impossible to tell exactly how the very very Belfast-like Pittsburghese developed because Ulster Scots was influenced by German (Angles lived in Edinburgh and much of the lowlands) just like the Germans live here. I don't think they got 'chipped ham' in Belfast. But when I go there people say "Hmmm I thought WE were the only ones who said that...." a lot. I don't have a problem understanding the English. Ballymena is another problem, though. Durham, England is awful -- I needed a translater. I also met an Ulster cousin who visited Western PA. He rented a car and drove north, apparently to Butler and Beaver, not Pittsburgh...or maybe he was trying to FIND Pittsburgh.... in any case, he said it was so much like home he could not believe it. Only the flag flying on the post offices was different. I think the terraine is most like Tyrone, myself. Pittsburgh is very like Belfast as well (a crusty old industrial town). On the other hand, if you've been to Boston, you've been to Dublin! (except for the donkey carts in the middle of the streets -- my taxi driver almost bagged a donkey on the way to my hotel one trip). Maybe we should start a "Can't afford overseas? Come to Pittsburgh" campaign??? >BTW, not the first time I've heard Arnold described as a pimple - but >the other references weren't to geography. Gee thats surprising as even the drug dealers here are old. We got a Catholic church in Arnold (it was an Italian town). We don't have, within 20 miles a Unitarian church or anything more liberal than a Methodist....well, there is an Episky, but I suspect they are not Vermonters. >I know this is the case because I heard a recent radio ad for the new >store in which they mispronounced 'Tarentum' (TARE-un-tum instead of >Tah-REN-tum). A common mistake for those furriners. I find it hard to believe anyone can mispronounce the name, which shows you that I didn't talk to furriners even when I didn't live here <grin>. Now at least I know how to detect invading VIRginians (no one else ever tries to come here). Well....between no one being able to find the Walmart and their reminding us they are not local and their labor problems, a lot of people refuse to shop at it at all. Maybe Kmart WILL survive. Back to work. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net