Hi folks, The usual thing to do these days for Ulster church records is to check the PRONI website: (If you don't know what PRONI is click on the link http://www.proni.gov.uk; don't email me): Scrooll doown from this page: http://www.proni.gov.uk/records/USING/using.htm (The "Using Records" link on the LEFT of the main page) and there's indexes to their holdings for Church of IReland and Presbyterian. This just tells you if they have them and the film number. It's not a name index. In fact the index doesn't even ID the years PRONI holds. You can search on the internet and frequently find out what someone with no known credentials (might be maintaining website from Altzheimers Unit <grin>) thinks about the availablity of the church records. Like here: http://irelandgenealogyprojects.rootsweb.com/Old/coirecs.html Usually these are lifted from one or two sources of such info. People concerned a bit about getting the right answer check an authoritative source. There's a number of books about on the subject. I happen to own "Irish Records" by Ryan. He gives the date for records starting for the parish of Tullylish in Dromore Diocese, County Down (CHurch of IReland) as 1813 and gives the LDS film with some records on it. I am having a problem though. I am trying to find out where a prior researcher, now dead, who failed to identify his source, got information from the Tullylish Vestry Book from the mid 1700s. The Tullylish Vestry Book I do not believe 'survived', as we put it in Irish genealogy. However the now deceased person had Ulster Historical Foundation do unspecified research for him at some point and they turned up an excommunication that would have been recorded in the vestry book. Of course we do not have the name of the document that it came from. The documentation on the church records is for BMDs. I want to know what vestry books survived. So if anyone knows, let me know! However, I did check FALLEY, the expert on IRish genealogy. She wrote a two volume work "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research". Due to its importance it is in any genealogy library that has even a small Irish section. Otherwise you can find it in a bookstore like www.genealogical.com (I always get asked "How do I get a copy?".... go to a library or a bookstore are the only answers I know). Here's the story. Many Church of IReland church records were destroyed in the Four Courts Fire in 1922 because unfortunately people obeyed the governmental decree to send them in after the church was disestablished in the 1800s as they were deemed gov. records. However before 1922, some records were copied and/or published. These exist still in secondary collections -- the right arm of the sucessful Irish genealogist. P 273 of Falley: a complete indexed list of the Parish Registers for all of Ireland was printed in the 28th "Report of the Deputy Keeper of the Public Records of Ireland", 1896, Appendix II, pp. 57-108. Indexed does not mean indexed by names of parishioners but names of parishes. It also gives their location in 1896. All but four of the copies in Dublin at the Four Courts of course burnt up in 1922. However as I said after the fire, copies appeared including abstracts of early Registers. Apparently before 1922 the earliest Registers for 29 parishes had been published already. For example Templemore -- Derry Cathedral. She goes on for a couple pages, concluding that for Republic of Ireland parishes were there TEN LISTS you had to consult to trace all information about the records. Focusing on Northern IReland, each of the Deputy Keeper's Reports for PRONI from 1924 to 1953 contain information on church records. There are also lists of various types that are supplemental to the last Report in 1853. She wrote her book in the 1960s so this info is out of date. It still the best to check her out as she consolidates the many lists, named above. Then she describes a long process she went through to determine the status of all Church of IReland parish BMDs. For Tullylish she says 1820 (not 1813). An example she gives (p279) of a secondary collection is that of Gertrude Thrift that contains church records of Fermanagh and many parishes in the Republic. These are indexed in the "Reports of the Deputy Keeper of the Public Records in Ireland" while "The Government of Northern Ireland Public Record Office, Reports of the Deputy Keeper of the Records" has consolidated indexes. All of which is very confusing but no where are vestry books mentioned. I suspect I may be able to find any published vestry books by using Smiths Inventory: FHL BRITISH Fiche 6110527 and/or Hayes. Description from: http://www.rootsweb.com/~bifhsusa/resire.html#ireland "Frank Smith's Inventories: This is probably the single most valuable finding aid to British Isles sources held in the Family History Library collection. Smith's Inventory of Genealogical Sources was compiled by Frank Smith and a team of researchers who searched periodicals, books, and microfilms in the Family History Library Collection and indexed the individual items found in these materials that often not been separately listed in the Family History Library Catalog. For example, the Family History Library Catalog will list the name of a periodical but will not list the individual articles contained within. Smith's Inventory will contain names of the articles. Ireland Fiche #6110527 Richard J. Hayes, Manuscript Sources for the History of Irish Civilisation: these volumes list the location of Irish Manuscripts." Linda Merle -- still searching for the Tullylish vestrybook. ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net