Hi folks, Is there any experts on this topic? In the mysterious Vestry book apparently the possible ancestor of my client was excommunicated from the CHurch of IReland in the mid 1700s or so (of course the family historian -- now burning in hell for failing to provide sources -- didn't give us the exact dates either). The people with the lastname in question, apparently his descendents, were minor leasees of the Marquise of Downshire. A hundred years later or so (1800s) one set were buried in the RC Churchyard, suggesting the family had become Catholic, though apparently too the Marquise was not known for liking Catholics. I am told many of his tenants changed their Irish names to Scottish ones and started showing up for services at the Church of IReland parish in order to remain tenants as opposed to American immigrants.... Could be that target family experienced lapses....donno...IN the USA they were Presbyterian and Baptist. The question is would the CHurch of IReland in the mid 1700s excommunicate Presbyterians or just Catholics??? The notion of being excommunicated from a church that forced everyone to be a member and pay tithes is interesting --- what did yu have to do to get ejected? (Not interested in current practice; just historical). Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Excommunication is a sentence of a Church court. I have copied your later post so that all this stuff is together. I'm not an expert in Anglican law, (Supposed to be quite good on 18th Century Church of Scotland which remember was Presbyterian). In the 18th Century functionally there was not a great deal of difference between the practices of the various Established Churches. Discipline is at the core of the life of a Church. (One of the signs of a true Kirk according to the Scottish reformers was Godly Discipline rightly administered). Church discipline was only administered by a rightly constituted court. While in the Church of Scotland these courts stretched down to Parish level, but in Anglican level the lowest level of Church court was rural deanery. The sentence of excommunication was the most severe of all the punishments of a Church. The first requirement to be excommunicated was to be in Communion. I can't see how a non member (Free Church of Romanist) could be excommunicated. They must have been members of the Church and confirmed. Generally speaking the only thing which you are going to get excommunicated fro is contumacy - this is rejecting the authority of the court. The second thing is that they would have to be locally important enough for anyone to care about them. The fact that they later were minor leaseholders despite being Roman Catholics suggests that locally they were important, and for some reason were involved in a falling out in the Parish church. This was so severe that they were disciplined and refused the discipline. This was a major event, but I don't know enough about the history of the church of Ireland to even guess what the fight was about, and I don't know anyone who might know. Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Linda Merle [mailto:merle@mail.fea.net] Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 8:36 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Sc-Ir] Church of Ireland and Excommunication in the 1700s Hi folks, Is there any experts on this topic? In the mysterious Vestry book apparently the possible ancestor of my client was excommunicated from the CHurch of IReland in the mid 1700s or so (of course the family historian -- now burning in hell for failing to provide sources -- didn't give us the exact dates either). The people with the lastname in question, apparently his descendents, were minor leasees of the Marquise of Downshire. A hundred years later or so (1800s) one set were buried in the RC Churchyard, suggesting the family had become Catholic, though apparently too the Marquise was not known for liking Catholics. I am told many of his tenants changed their Irish names to Scottish ones and started showing up for services at the Church of IReland parish in order to remain tenants as opposed to American immigrants.... Could be that target family experienced lapses....donno...IN the USA they were Presbyterian and Baptist. The question is would the CHurch of IReland in the mid 1700s excommunicate Presbyterians or just Catholics??? The notion of being excommunicated from a church that forced everyone to be a member and pay tithes is interesting --- what did yu have to do to get ejected? (Not interested in current practice; just historical). Hi folks, "Ancestral Trails" is THE book on British genealogy though it's really about English genealogy. It says about English (Anglican) practice the following. The time frame is not clear.....I suspect the Church of Ireland followed along somewhat the same. p 453 under "Punishments and Sentences of the Church Courts" The lightest was a reprimand or monition. Worse was a penance. For laymen the most serious was excommunication. Lesser excommunication excluded you from attending church, while greater excluded you from the company of Christians until granted absolution. You might be refused burial in the parish graveyard and/or the church could refuse to prove your will. In England in the 1600s it says many people were excommunicated for years, many were Catholics or non conformists. Or witchcraft. So at least in England you could be excommunicated for being Catholic or a nonconforming Protestant. Linda Merle Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net