I do love a good list fight. Can I please book a ringside seat for the duration. (And I hope this one will be allowed to play itself out rather than be stopped prematurely. The reason: it illustrates so well one of the characteristics of the Scotch-Irish: a tendency to get it all wrong, wilfully misunderstand everyone else involved, and then go off in a huff, ie move on) John you seem to have some definite ideas on what a list like this should involve which have as many limitations on them as those you claim Linda to be espousing. Perhaps you might like to expand on just what you mean by saying that "I certainly do not intend to be directed or not-tolerated by any anglican-like authority." As an Anglican myself I rather suspect you are showing your own prejudices in a way I find offensive. So when it comes to "tolerance" I hope you will ask for mine. In the end, it is up to the List Administrator to do the administering, and anyone who doesn't like that can do what the Scotch-Irish have traditionally done, ie move on and start afresh further along the trail. Charlie John Patterson wrote: > Dear Linda, > > I have had some time to think about your message and I am sorry if my first > response, earlier today, implied that maybe I should move on. > > I appreciate the work that you do with the mailing list and the Ulster > research that you support and I expect that many other in the mailing list > do also. However, there are a few vital points that I would like to make > concerning your statements: > > [1] I was only responding to your earlier email that indicated that things > in the list were a little slow. Given the responses that I have received, > just today, in regard to my posting and with respect to your response, I > would say that I have supported your request to generate some activity > within the list. > > But, I was surprised by the immediate attempt at complete censorship. I > believe that you are the List Administrator; not the list owner or the > ecclesiastic authority concerned with ensuring the intellectual integrity of > the list. Rootsweb.com says that your responsibilities and limitations are > as follows: > > You are encouraged to: > > - Prompt discussions on your list when it is in a lull. > - Promote your list and encourage new subscribers. > - Assist users when necessary or possible. > - Intervene to resolve problems that are detrimental to your list. > - Gateway your list with allied message boards. > > You may not: > > - Change the overall focus/topic of the list. For example, you may not > change a list that focuses on a given surname to exclude all except those > from a specific lineage or region. You would need to request a second list > with those restrictions if such was your goal. > > - Close your list by unsubscribing everyone, or by refusing to allow anyone > to subscribe. > > - Archive your list anywhere other than RootsWeb without prior permission. > > [2] Regarding your suggestion that I find or start another list: I believe > the term Scotch-Irish first came to be used in the United States, not > Ulster. And I submit that anything regarding the culture, language, history > or background of the Scotch-Irish (regardless of location or origin) > qualifies for discussion in a Scotch-Irish forum or mailing list. > > You might like to request or adopt a mailing list named Ulster History, or > Northern Ireland Protestants, or limited focus descendants of Presbyterians > from the Counties of Northern Ireland. In those named forums your comments > might be appropriate. > > But in a "Scotch-Irish" forum, about any question about a subject that might > enhance the understanding of the Scotch-Irish people submitted by a member > who is struggling to learn WILL BE TOLERATED. > > [3] And finally, the use of the word tolerate in your email was unfortunate. > > >>>A Scotch-Irish man/woman does not tolerate not being tolerated.<<< > > That should have been obvious in the 1600s, but was certainly unavoidably > clear to everyone in the Commonwealth by the late 1700s. > > I believe you intended the third definition of the word from the Oxford > English Dictionary: 3. To bear without repugnance, to allow intellectually, > or in taste, sentiment, or principle; to put up with. > > So, "will not be tolerated" must mean: Will not be born without repugnance > or will not be put up with. > > I certainly do not intend to be directed or not-tolerated by any > anglican-like authority. I will submit to the will of the list members; as > any good Scotch-Irish descendant would. But, I doubt, from the gender of my > most recent communications with some members in the Scotch-Irish list, that > limiting the subject of Scotch-Irish heritage to your boundaries is > necessary. > > Sincerely, > > John Patterson > Great Bridge, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Linda Merle [mailto:merle@mail.fea.net] > Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 9:40 AM > To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Britons and Scotch-Irish > > Hi John and others, > > This list was formed many years ago for one purpose: to help us find the > origins of ancestors in Ulster. It's helped me a lot and I think we've all > helped one another. > > The topics you are studying are good ones and they help give you a sense of > the history. Without a notion of the history, you will miss clues or > misinterpret them. Hopefully, you are studying 'real history' and not the > foggy stuff meant to entertain. [The real history is what led to the > realization that Scot-Irish are British - not the English] > > But this stuff here is off topic: > > >(2) Pattersons/Patersons in Cunningham (near Ayrshire) > > [These were two or three of the very first Scot-Irish settlers in the Ulster > Plantation!] > > Join a Scottish list to do research in Scotland. Not here. > > These are also off topic: > > >(3) The British Kingdoms of Strathclyde, Rheged and Gododdin > > [I thought it was fascinating that these Kingdoms and languages were part of > our heritage and most people don't know about them] > > >(4) And Cumbric (a Brythonic language related to Welsh) and an early > >language of "Cumbria" [possibly the language of the Scot-Irish before the > English tried to teach them to speak English and a mongrel form (Scots) > arose.] > > >Anyone interested in discussing / sharing information in these difficult > >areas of research feel free to contact me directly. We can post > >information that becomes interesting > > NOT HERE YOU DON'T. There's plenty of lists that would welcome it, but none > of your explorations of these areas will help our genealogy. So you'll have > to find some other lists (www.rootsweb.com) or start one yourself. It's not > too painful to do so. Highly recommended. Let us know if you do. However > Rootsweb says it's my job to keep us on track and that I will do. > > Especially, NO SCOTTISH POSTS. We've seen in the past that people have a > very difficult time grasping one of the basic principles of genealogy: > records are locale-based. Scotland is a different country from Ireland and > doing genealogy there (I DO A LOT both personally and professionally) is > DIFFERENT from research in Ireland (I do a lot there too, both ways). > You must read different books, take different courses and lurk on different > lists. NOT HERE. This is an Ulster centric list for researching Ulster and > its diaspora. It's a topic that is difficult to get your arms around. > > Time to end this post. I want to remind members that off topic posts will > not be tolerated. > > Linda Merle Scotch Irish Admin > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net > > >