I read somewhere When the day of surnames, imposed by the British Gov, arrived, they continued, adopting new ones at will. Complex stuff surnames and pre-date British Governments It would seem that the Irish had some of the earliest surnames, introduced through their own church and complex naming systems. Many weren't hereditary and died out within a couple of generations Surnames tended to describe physical features, locational/settlement and family/kinship/ tribal links An account by Friar Woulfe, an early authority on Irish surnames the earliest surname was O'Cleirgh - O'Clery. This is documented in the Irish Annals. The death of Tigherneach Ua Cleirigh in 916, County Galway is said to make this the earliest recorded surname in Europe - and obviously- completely out side the time scale of any English Government imposition think of the O'Briens and O'Neils - why you ask? Ua is said to be the earlier form of 'O' As for the lowland Scots - if they are linked to the Picts (difficult people to study- these Picts) it is thought that the Picts followed a matrileaner( mothers line) system and if so, presumably any naming patterns would follow this structure One of the oldest British surnames is Mabon. It is one of my family names ( Scotland) and found in Cornwall, Ulster and southern Scotland. It probably developed from a tribal name as Mabon was likely a pre Christian god. The development of surnames in Wales is hereditary, was patronomic and had little initial influence from the English. Welsh geneologies were constructed out of fictiona, mythical,legndary characters to give status. The same can be said for the Irish and Scots as genealogies were very important for staus and if they had to be made up to make it sound better why not I say. For anyone interested University College Cork http://www.ucc.ie/research/atlas/projectoverview.htm has an Irish Surname Project which includes the influence of the Scots, Vikings, English et al on namies in Ireland. It uses Penders 1659 Census’ and Griffiths Valuation and is really interesting if anyone is interested in Irish surnames Cheers Gill N.Wales

To anyone who read my screed Please excuse terrible spelling not a strong point Gill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Smith" <gilliandavies@lineone.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 9:02 AM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Re;Irish Surnames >I read somewhere > > When the day of surnames, imposed by the British Gov, arrived, they > continued, adopting new ones at will. > > Complex stuff surnames and pre-date British Governments > > It would seem that the Irish had some of the earliest surnames, introduced > through their own church and complex naming systems. Many weren't > hereditary and died out within a couple of generations > Surnames tended to describe physical features, locational/settlement and > family/kinship/ tribal links > > An account by Friar Woulfe, an early authority on Irish surnames the > earliest surname was O'Cleirgh - O'Clery. > This is documented in the Irish Annals. The death of Tigherneach Ua > Cleirigh in 916, County Galway is said to make this the earliest recorded > surname in Europe - and obviously- completely out side the time scale of > any English Government imposition > > think of the O'Briens and O'Neils - why you ask? > > Ua is said to be the earlier form of 'O' > As for the lowland Scots - if they are linked to the Picts (difficult > people to study- these Picts) it is thought that the Picts followed a > matrileaner( mothers line) system and if so, presumably any naming > patterns would follow this structure > > One of the oldest British surnames is Mabon. It is one of my family names > ( Scotland) and found in Cornwall, Ulster and southern Scotland. It > probably developed from a tribal name as Mabon was likely a pre Christian > god. > > The development of surnames in Wales is hereditary, was patronomic and had > little initial influence from the English. Welsh geneologies were > constructed out of fictiona, mythical,legndary characters to give status. > > The same can be said for the Irish and Scots as genealogies were very > important for staus and if they had to be made up to make it sound better > why not I say. > > For anyone interested University College Cork > http://www.ucc.ie/research/atlas/projectoverview.htm > > has an Irish Surname Project which includes the influence of the Scots, > Vikings, English et al on namies in Ireland. It uses Penders 1659 Census’ > and Griffiths Valuation and is really interesting if anyone is interested > in Irish surnames > > Cheers > > Gill N.Wales > > >