Here's what Bell "Book of Ulster Surnames" says: for MacIlveen, see MacIlwaine. It includes MacElwain and MacIlveen. Bell says these names are common in Ulster, almost exclusively in Ireland. They are most common in Down and ANtrim though MacIlwaine is also common in Armagh. They can be Irish or Scottish in origin. [I interject as usual.....this ain't surprising. What we tend to view as two countries on two islands with some kind of armada permanantly parked in the ditch between to keep people going back and forth to confuse us with their surnames was actually the right and left sides of the Mississippi (for Americans). Ie the ditch was a super highway, people went back and forth all the time and there wasn't a lot of difference between side A and side B. In fact it was known as the sea kingdom for a long time. Infested (from the point of view of London and Edinburgh) by Gaelic speaking hostiles. The leading families of the Scottish side were often founded by branches of leading Irish families. When renewing links with dynastic marriages, the brides often brought many Scots warriors with them. IN one case in the 1500s, 10,000 large, heavily armed and Gaelic speaking men and horny men in the prime of their ability to procreate went to Ireland with the bride. So, alas!!! since they spoke the same language they all ended up with the same 'surnames', when the ENglish finally imposed them. Also many Scottish highlanders (Gaelic speaking and Catholic) had settled in the glens of Antrim in the 1500s. That's how we got all those Mc names and how come you can't easily distinguish between the Scots and Irish by the Mc name.] Bell again... he sticks to the facts and tells us the the Irish name MacIlwaine or MacElwain is from a Gaelic name meaning son of the white youth. A Sligo sept. There the name became Kilbane but in Ulster MacIlwaine. MacElveen, MacIlveen and MacKilveen are Irish Gaelic for another sept in south Down maning son of the gentle or mild youth. SO we got two Irish septs in the environs in Ulster.... But 'most' he tells us of the Ulster MacElwains etc are thought to be Scots in origin due to the same set of names being associated with a sept of Clan MacBean. These originated as 'son of the devotee of (St) Beathan. However McIlvain can also be from Scots Gaelic meaning 'son of the fair youth or servant, a name 'largely anglicized' to White. These names are common in Dumfriesshire, Ayrshire, Wigtownshire -- from whence, he tells us, come many Plantation settlers. It's also possible that an lowlander named White could have settled in Ulster amongst Gaelic speakers (Scots or IRish) who gaelicized the name to some form of 'fair' or 'white' or the son thereof, meaning, full circle, we're back with the MacElwains. Thank heavens for DNA as we can finally start to figure out who is really related to who. Anyhow if you can get a bead on where in Ulster or Scotland they came from, you can burrow into local history (much is recorded in Bell "Boook of Ulster SUrnames") and learn where people think that the local McElw...s came from. However the surname itself is of no help in figuring out where they came from except probably the shores of the medieval sea kingdom -- Side A or Side B. It's always possible our ancestors went to London at any time and set up a little shop selling haggis to other lost Scots or tattie pancakes to lost Irish, lived there for a while and finally moved on again. Maybe to the West Indies where they had a plantation or worked on one and then moved to Virginia in 1750. There was no guard at the Thames river to turn them back. To figure it out we need to gather evidence at where-ever it is they finally went. You may not find a 'smoking gun' (ie the county of origin carved on the tombstone of the immigrant) but you can often gather subtle evidence if you do a thorough job of researching them here.....where ever here is. You can get a lot of ideas on how to research migrants free at www.genealogy.com/university.html . I do this professionally and still visit the courses regularly and still get more insight I missed the first 150 times I read it. I think it's better than a book I had to buy. Happy hunting!! Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net