Hi Ellen, The burnt courthouse scenario is an all too familiar one. It is the subject of endless lectures, articles, and even books. You need to stop using it as an excuse (like the rest of us <grin>) and get past it using good genealogical methodologies. Such an event can be overcome. You just need to know how. The first thing to do is google. In this case for things like burnt courthouse genealogy. I did that and came up with several things including http://inman.surnameweb.org/documents/looking.htm . The bottom line with burnt courthouses is that sooner or later some government comes along and wants to collect taxes. Unless they can figure out who is responsible for paying the taxes, many are likely to avoid it. So reconstruction of land records occurs rather fast. Assisting are families who want to inherit or continue with their high place in the social order as well as those whose enemies see the chaos as a chance to dispossess those families of their property. There was NOT a law in place (that I am aware of) requiring that property sales (deeds) be registered at the courthouse. I am not a North Carolina expert; I may be wrong, but I doubt it seriously. You COULD register the deed but you didn't have to. Eventually due to the difficulties of collecting taxes, etc, the states applied much pressure to get the court house used. But that's later on. The way you proved you owned property is you produced the deed. The real deed. The deed was copied into the courthouse records -- maybe. The real deed is the one your ancestor had. To prove he owned it after the fire, he showed up at the courthouse and had it recorded again. If he didn't have the deed (house burnt too, goat ate it, Uncle Bob used it for TP (toilet paper)), then you got some witnesses who swore an oath and testified. There are a zillion of these kinda cases all over the USA in court records. If the courthouse burnt up, it started again. There are also grants -- made by the colony. NC grants are a huge huge topic. I once encountered them in a project in Tennessee....They're not kept at the courthouse. Maybe it had some copies but those are state records and I do know they survive. Ditto for Virginia, PA, Maryland and all the places to the north where you should be looking. There are all kinds of records that are not kept at the county courthouse you can use and lots of articles and books that explain what they are and how to find them. However this is a heck of a lot of work. If you want fast results, then it's simple. Catch a male relative with the surname and test his Y chromosome. He has to have the Y chromosome of the early family, so make sure he descends on the male line. Don't have one, you say? Hogwash. Do some genealogy and FIND one! That's what we do <grin>. Genealogy! It costs $300 unless you hit on a sale. Test at www.familytreedna.com (largest database). You can join free as many projects as you want. Maybe the Ireland one. When the results arrive, the admins can usually figure out what quad of Ireland they're from. If Ulster, you are shuffled off to the Ulster Heritage project. Then you look for matches in that project, in NC projects, in family projects, etc. When you find matches, you can then look for the paper trail from A to B. Eliminates a lot of vacuuming up of records in places your ancestors never were. You can spend 20 years vacuuming records and copying them at 25 cents or more per page and not get anywhere, so you hire someone for the minimum amount -- which now is about $300 and they may or may not find something (toss the dice). Or you can do DNA testing NOW. You spend $300. You save money photocopying every piece of paper in the original colonies, and eventually, maybe in six weeks, maybe in a year, you will have a match and can start figuring out how they got from A to B. Even if you never get a match in the USA, you know your ancestor didn't match those guys. He's not a McCleary. But you'll know what he was and can work with those people to figure out who the Indian in the wood pile was. THAT you'll never learn any other way. Because the truth is even if all the courthouses hadn't burnt down, there could have never been a record made of where your ancestors came from, so sifting through records, will not solve this problem. Most colonial immigrations are NOT documented. They were not documented in 1719 when they hopped off the boat nor any other time unless by chance in oral or county histories, obits of pioneers, etc. So forget the courthouse and go track down a cousin. In six weeks, when your DNA results come in, you could know which family groups you match and which you don't, assuming others with the surname have tested. Check for a family project at www.familytreedna.com and find out. DNA is the only way to get results for certain, and it's fast and cheap too. If you have colonial migrants, then you need to do this. You can read through several courses on migration genealogy at www.genealogical.com/university.html and eventually you'll figure out there is no sure way to find their origins doing genealogy. There is using DNA -- so bag a cousin and then read the courses while the DNA is being tested. It'll give you something to do <grin>. Linda Merle

I have just added a possible 5-gr-grandfather and 6-gr-grandfather to my ancestors. Because this is a VERY new possibility, I am just starting my research on this line. The younger man's name is Patrick Henry Morrison and his father's name is James Morrison. The family history books in my area that have articles submitted by researchers (and I realize are thus suspect) say that James and Rachel Morrison moved to Pittsylvania County, Virginia in the mid to late 1700's from Donegal. Now I realize that Donegal is part of Ulster Province, but NOT part of Northern Ireland---being instead a part of the Republic of Ireland. So the question here is do I suspect SI or do I suspect Irish for the surname Morrison coming out of Donegal? Please, I am not asking anyone to do my research for me, just looking for a small boost if anyone has this answer off the top of their heads.....I am mostly just curious at this very early part of my looking around. marsha in WV

I also have a Morrison line. My is Margaret Morrison born 1810 daughter of probably Charles Morrison she married a Dunlop and lived in Belfast. It is interesting as the 1880 U S census says that she was born in Ireland, her father was born in Ireland but her mother was born in Ohio. If I understand your question. Morrison is Scottish. As so many others did, the family immigrated to Ireland. Emalu At 09:46 AM 3/30/2010 -0400, you wrote: >I have just added a possible 5-gr-grandfather and 6-gr-grandfather to >my ancestors. Because this is a VERY new possibility, I am just >starting my research on this line. The younger man's name is Patrick >Henry Morrison and his father's name is James Morrison. The family >history books in my area that have articles submitted by researchers >(and I realize are thus suspect) say that James and Rachel Morrison >moved to Pittsylvania County, Virginia in the mid to late 1700's from >Donegal. Now I realize that Donegal is part of Ulster Province, but >NOT part of Northern Ireland---being instead a part of the Republic of >Ireland. > >So the question here is do I suspect SI or do I suspect Irish for the >surname Morrison coming out of Donegal? Please, I am not asking >anyone to do my research for me, just looking for a small boost if >anyone has this answer off the top of their heads.....I am mostly just >curious at this very early part of my looking around. marsha in WV > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Linda, Oh I would love to go the DNA route!!!! And maybe someday I will be able to ... It is on my wish list ... Why does it have to be a male relative with the surname??? Why can't it just be a male with the McCleary genes in him??? Keeping in mind that my husband is Scotch-Irish, maybe it doesn't always fit, but talking my husband into the desire to pay for DNA testing will be a real adventure..... LOL, Thanks Ellie -------------------------------------------------- From: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:14 AM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [S-I] a question about a possible Scotch-Irish migration from NH toPA in 1719 > Hi Ellen, > > The burnt courthouse scenario is an all too familiar one. It is the > subject of endless lectures, articles, and even books. You need to stop > using it as an excuse (like the rest of us <grin>) and get past it using > good genealogical methodologies. Such an event can be overcome. You just > need to know how. > > The first thing to do is google. In this case for things like burnt > courthouse genealogy. I did that and came up with several things including > http://inman.surnameweb.org/documents/looking.htm . > > The bottom line with burnt courthouses is that sooner or later some > government comes along and wants to collect taxes. Unless they can figure > out who is responsible for paying the taxes, many are likely to avoid it. > So reconstruction of land records occurs rather fast. Assisting are > families who want to inherit or continue with their high place in the > social order as well as those whose enemies see the chaos as a chance to > dispossess those families of their property. > > There was NOT a law in place (that I am aware of) requiring that property > sales (deeds) be registered at the courthouse. I am not a North Carolina > expert; I may be wrong, but I doubt it seriously. You COULD register the > deed but you didn't have to. Eventually due to the difficulties of > collecting taxes, etc, the states applied much pressure to get the court > house used. But that's later on. The way you proved you owned property is > you produced the deed. The real deed. The deed was copied into the > courthouse records -- maybe. The real deed is the one your ancestor had. > To prove he owned it after the fire, he showed up at the courthouse and > had it recorded again. > > If he didn't have the deed (house burnt too, goat ate it, Uncle Bob used > it for TP (toilet paper)), then you got some witnesses who swore an oath > and testified. There are a zillion of these kinda cases all over the USA > in court records. If the courthouse burnt up, it started again. > > There are also grants -- made by the colony. NC grants are a huge huge > topic. I once encountered them in a project in Tennessee....They're not > kept at the courthouse. Maybe it had some copies but those are state > records and I do know they survive. Ditto for Virginia, PA, Maryland and > all the places to the north where you should be looking. There are all > kinds of records that are not kept at the county courthouse you can use > and lots of articles and books that explain what they are and how to find > them. > > However this is a heck of a lot of work. If you want fast results, then > it's simple. Catch a male relative with the surname and test his Y > chromosome. He has to have the Y chromosome of the early family, so make > sure he descends on the male line. Don't have one, you say? Hogwash. Do > some genealogy and FIND one! That's what we do <grin>. Genealogy! It costs > $300 unless you hit on a sale. Test at www.familytreedna.com (largest > database). You can join free as many projects as you want. Maybe the > Ireland one. When the results arrive, the admins can usually figure out > what quad of Ireland they're from. If Ulster, you are shuffled off to the > Ulster Heritage project. Then you look for matches in that project, in NC > projects, in family projects, etc. > > When you find matches, you can then look for the paper trail from A to B. > Eliminates a lot of vacuuming up of records in places your ancestors never > were. > > You can spend 20 years vacuuming records and copying them at 25 cents or > more per page and not get anywhere, so you hire someone for the minimum > amount -- which now is about $300 and they may or may not find something > (toss the dice). Or you can do DNA testing NOW. You spend $300. You save > money photocopying every piece of paper in the original colonies, and > eventually, maybe in six weeks, maybe in a year, you will have a match and > can start figuring out how they got from A to B. Even if you never get a > match in the USA, you know your ancestor didn't match those guys. He's not > a McCleary. But you'll know what he was and can work with those people to > figure out who the Indian in the wood pile was. THAT you'll never learn > any other way. > > Because the truth is even if all the courthouses hadn't burnt down, there > could have never been a record made of where your ancestors came from, so > sifting through records, will not solve this problem. Most colonial > immigrations are NOT documented. They were not documented in 1719 when > they hopped off the boat nor any other time unless by chance in oral or > county histories, obits of pioneers, etc. > > So forget the courthouse and go track down a cousin. In six weeks, when > your DNA results come in, you could know which family groups you match and > which you don't, assuming others with the surname have tested. Check for a > family project at www.familytreedna.com and find out. > > DNA is the only way to get results for certain, and it's fast and cheap > too. If you have colonial migrants, then you need to do this. You can read > through several courses on migration genealogy at > www.genealogical.com/university.html and eventually you'll figure out > there is no sure way to find their origins doing genealogy. There is using > DNA -- so bag a cousin and then read the courses while the DNA is being > tested. It'll give you something to do <grin>. > > Linda Merle > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message