[email protected] wrote: > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: a question about a possible Scotch-Irish migration from > NH toPA in 1719 ([email protected]) > 2. 1718 Bucks Co to Northampton Co., PA 1728 (Diane Graham) > 3. Re: SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 5, Issue 93 (Ann Heinz) > 4. Re: Bethlehem vs Allen Township ([email protected]) > 5. Re: Bethlehem vs Allen Township ([email protected]) > 6. Re: Bethlehem vs Allen Township ([email protected]) > 7. Please complain to the Admin ([email protected]) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:10:06 +0000 (UTC) >From: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [S-I] a question about a possible Scotch-Irish migration > from NH toPA in 1719 >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: > <[email protected]pa.mail.comcast.net> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >Hi Ellie, it has to be a male relative with the right surname because he would have a Y chromosome inherited from the male ancestor with the surname. See www.familytreedna.com for more information. > >Good luck with the husband. > >Linda Merle > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ellie Dowling" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:55:07 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >Subject: Re: [S-I] a question about a possible Scotch-Irish migration from NH toPA in 1719 > >Hi Linda, Oh I would love to go the DNA route!!!! And maybe someday I will >be able to ... It is on my wish list ... Why does it have to be a male >relative with the surname??? Why can't it just be a male with the McCleary >genes in him??? Keeping in mind that my husband is Scotch-Irish, maybe it >doesn't always fit, but talking my husband into the desire to pay for DNA >testing will be a real adventure..... LOL, Thanks Ellie > >-------------------------------------------------- >From: <[email protected]> >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:14 AM >To: <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [S-I] a question about a possible Scotch-Irish migration from >NH toPA in 1719 > >> Hi Ellen, >> >> The burnt courthouse scenario is an all too familiar one. It is the >> subject of endless lectures, articles, and even books. You need to stop >> using it as an excuse (like the rest of us <grin>) and get past it using >> good genealogical methodologies. Such an event can be overcome. You just >> need to know how. >> >> The first thing to do is google. In this case for things like burnt >> courthouse genealogy. I did that and came up with several things including >> http://inman.surnameweb.org/documents/looking.htm . >> >> The bottom line with burnt courthouses is that sooner or later some >> government comes along and wants to collect taxes. Unless they can figure >> out who is responsible for paying the taxes, many are likely to avoid it. >> So reconstruction of land records occurs rather fast. Assisting are >> families who want to inherit or continue with their high place in the >> social order as well as those whose enemies see the chaos as a chance to >> dispossess those families of their property. >> >> There was NOT a law in place (that I am aware of) requiring that property >> sales (deeds) be registered at the courthouse. I am not a North Carolina >> expert; I may be wrong, but I doubt it seriously. You COULD register the >> deed but you didn't have to. Eventually due to the difficulties of >> collecting taxes, etc, the states applied much pressure to get the court >> house used. But that's later on. The way you proved you owned property is >> you produced the deed. The real deed. The deed was copied into the >> courthouse records -- maybe. The real deed is the one your ancestor had. >> To prove he owned it after the fire, he showed up at the courthouse and >> had it recorded again. >> >> If he didn't have the deed (house burnt too, goat ate it, Uncle Bob used >> it for TP (toilet paper)), then you got some witnesses who swore an oath >> and testified. There are a zillion of these kinda cases all over the USA >> in court records. If the courthouse burnt up, it started again. >> >> There are also grants -- made by the colony. NC grants are a huge huge >> topic. I once encountered them in a project in Tennessee....They're not >> kept at the courthouse. Maybe it had some copies but those are state >> records and I do know they survive. Ditto for Virginia, PA, Maryland and >> all the places to the north where you should be looking. There are all >> kinds of records that are not kept at the county courthouse you can use >> and lots of articles and books that explain what they are and how to find >> them. >> >> However this is a heck of a lot of work. If you want fast results, then >> it's simple. Catch a male relative with the surname and test his Y >> chromosome. He has to have the Y chromosome of the early family, so make >> sure he descends on the male line. Don't have one, you say? Hogwash. Do >> some genealogy and FIND one! That's what we do <grin>. Genealogy! It costs >> $300 unless you hit on a sale. Test at www.familytreedna.com (largest >> database). You can join free as many projects as you want. Maybe the >> Ireland one. When the results arrive, the admins can usually figure out >> what quad of Ireland they're from. If Ulster, you are shuffled off to the >> Ulster Heritage project. Then you look for matches in that project, in NC >> projects, in family projects, etc. >> >> When you find matches, you can then look for the paper trail from A to B. >> Eliminates a lot of vacuuming up of records in places your ancestors never >> were. >> >> You can spend 20 years vacuuming records and copying them at 25 cents or >> more per page and not get anywhere, so you hire someone for the minimum >> amount -- which now is about $300 and they may or may not find something >> (toss the dice). Or you can do DNA testing NOW. You spend $300. You save >> money photocopying every piece of paper in the original colonies, and >> eventually, maybe in six weeks, maybe in a year, you will have a match and >> can start figuring out how they got from A to B. Even if you never get a >> match in the USA, you know your ancestor didn't match those guys. He's not >> a McCleary. But you'll know what he was and can work with those people to >> figure out who the Indian in the wood pile was. THAT you'll never learn >> any other way. >> >> Because the truth is even if all the courthouses hadn't burnt down, there >> could have never been a record made of where your ancestors came from, so >> sifting through records, will not solve this problem. Most colonial >> immigrations are NOT documented. They were not documented in 1719 when >> they hopped off the boat nor any other time unless by chance in oral or >> county histories, obits of pioneers, etc. >> >> So forget the courthouse and go track down a cousin. In six weeks, when >> your DNA results come in, you could know which family groups you match and >> which you don't, assuming others with the surname have tested. Check for a >> family project at www.familytreedna.com and find out. >> >> DNA is the only way to get results for certain, and it's fast and cheap >> too. If you have colonial migrants, then you need to do this. You can read >> through several courses on migration genealogy at >> www.genealogical.com/university.html and eventually you'll figure out >> there is no sure way to find their origins doing genealogy. There is using >> DNA -- so bag a cousin and then read the courses while the DNA is being >> tested. It'll give you something to do <grin>. >> >> Linda Merle >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:56:32 -0500 >From: Diane Graham <[email protected]> >Subject: [S-I] 1718 Bucks Co to Northampton Co., PA 1728 >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > >Colin and others. (we have communicated with you before Colin) > >There have been a cluster of us working on our Boyd family, who "may" >have come out of Armagh in 1732/34" to this country. >(Thomas Boyd and his brother William plus a couple of sisters) Thomas >said in his will that he was of "Alin " township. > >It has always bothered me that Thomas's son James (my ancestor) was >said in many old DAR applications to have been born at Bethlehem Pa. >The reason that it has never felt right is because my understanding >of Bethlehem is that it was a German settlement. > >The Boyd family were supposedly Scots/Irish. > >Do you have any opinions about this? > >Diane > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:28:22 -0500 >From: "Ann Heinz" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [S-I] SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 5, Issue 93 >To: <[email protected]> >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Please erase previous e-mails when making replies. my digest form gets so crowded that it is almost impossible to find original responses. >Ann > > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4988 (20100331) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:05:03 EDT >From: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [S-I] Bethlehem vs Allen Township >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >yes. Bethlehem is a town and a township. In 1730 it was a little spit of >land and the Irish settlement was HUGE in comparison. The original Irish >settlement includes almost all of Bethlehem city and Bethlehem Township in >today's maps. The Moravians who created what we now know as Bethlehem city did >this after the S-I had sold them their lands and moved in 17755 from the >Indian uprisings. They had built a "fort" and church but little else before >1750. The S-I "built" the farm land the Moravians needed to enable their >survival. > There are two Boyd families in the Irish settlement. John the original >lived in the curve of the Lehigh River where it turns north. That is now >Allentown City but was part of Northampton county and Bethlehem. > The second is William who lived north of Bethlehem city near to East >Allen Township in the Catasauqua are of today. if you want to take Thomas at >face value it would point to him being part of Williams family in Catasauqua. > HOWEVER, you can never be specific with these "general locations". >They changed numerous times. BY his death in 1790's. "Alin Township" didn't >even exist AND wasn't part of Northampton County :) So "Bethlehem" is right >and wrong and ditto to "Alin" Township. If it was easy it wouldn't be so >much fun :) > >BTW- YOUR BOYD family is and always has been Scotch-Irish! Get rid of that >"supposedly" tag line- you know better! > >Colin Brooks >The 1718 Project > > >In a message dated 3/31/2010 10:56:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >[email protected] writes: > >Colin and others. (we have communicated with you before Colin) > >There have been a cluster of us working on our Boyd family, who "may" >have come out of Armagh in 1732/34" to this country. >(Thomas Boyd and his brother William plus a couple of sisters) Thomas >said in his will that he was of "Alin " township. > >It has always bothered me that Thomas's son James (my ancestor) was >said in many old DAR applications to have been born at Bethlehem Pa. >The reason that it has never felt right is because my understanding >of Bethlehem is that it was a German settlement. > >The Boyd family were supposedly Scots/Irish. > >Do you have any opinions about this? > >Diane > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >subject and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:17:13 EDT >From: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [S-I] Bethlehem vs Allen Township >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > >On April 2, 1741, William Allen deeded 500 acres at the junction of the >Monocacy Creek and Lehigh River to the Moravian Church. The setting was ideal. > It had fertile soil, ample lumber, and a plentiful water supply. Continued > Moravian immigration and careful planning of the community is evidenced in >the rapid growth of the settlement. By 1761 the settlements inhabitants >erected over 50 buildings, maintained nearly 50 industries, and cleared over >2000 acres of Bethlehem-Nazareth land. Much credit for this early success >can be attributed to the communal system in which these early settlers >lived. >The disciplined, communal life of the settlers served a dual purpose. They >were able to survive and thrive in a back woods location, as well as >maintain a high standard of moral behavior by associating closely with those of >the same spiritual convictions. A regimen of worship and work sustained >early development in their new and sometimes hostile environment. The first >years, 1741-1762, were based on a communal economy where all individual labors >were directed toward the betterment of the community and support of its >growing itinerancy and missionary efforts. >You will note, as Colin said, that the Moravian community expanded by >purchase of 1,500 additional acres, presumably from earlier Scotch-Irish >settlers, by 1761. The Moravian settlement functioned as a refugee center for >settlers driven back from the frontier in 1755-57 and 1763. > > >In a message dated 3/31/2010 12:05:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >[email protected] writes: > >yes. Bethlehem is a town and a township. In 1730 it was a little spit of >land and the Irish settlement was HUGE in comparison. The original Irish >settlement includes almost all of Bethlehem city and Bethlehem Township in > >today's maps. The Moravians who created what we now know as Bethlehem city >did >this after the S-I had sold them their lands and moved in 17755 from the >Indian uprisings. They had built a "fort" and church but little else >before >1750. The S-I "built" the farm land the Moravians needed to enable their >survival. >There are two Boyd families in the Irish settlement. John the original >lived in the curve of the Lehigh River where it turns north. That is now >Allentown City but was part of Northampton county and Bethlehem. >The second is William who lived north of Bethlehem city near to East >Allen Township in the Catasauqua are of today. if you want to take Thomas >at >face value it would point to him being part of Williams family in >Catasauqua. >HOWEVER, you can never be specific with these "general locations". >They changed numerous times. BY his death in 1790's. "Alin Township" >didn't >even exist AND wasn't part of Northampton County :) So "Bethlehem" is >right >and wrong and ditto to "Alin" Township. If it was easy it wouldn't be so >much fun :) > >BTW- YOUR BOYD family is and always has been Scotch-Irish! Get rid of that > >"supposedly" tag line- you know better! > >Colin Brooks >The 1718 Project > > >In a message dated 3/31/2010 10:56:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >[email protected] writes: > >Colin and others. (we have communicated with you before Colin) > >There have been a cluster of us working on our Boyd family, who "may" >have come out of Armagh in 1732/34" to this country. >(Thomas Boyd and his brother William plus a couple of sisters) Thomas >said in his will that he was of "Alin " township. > >It has always bothered me that Thomas's son James (my ancestor) was >said in many old DAR applications to have been born at Bethlehem Pa. >The reason that it has never felt right is because my understanding >of Bethlehem is that it was a German settlement. > >The Boyd family were supposedly Scots/Irish. > >Do you have any opinions about this? > >Diane > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the >subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject >and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:00:11 EDT >From: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [S-I] Bethlehem vs Allen Township >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Thanks Richard for the info (and back-up). Note the 1741 date. This is 13 >years after the first S-I are noted in Lehigh Valley circa 1728. William >Allen was the Penn proprietor who sold most of the valley. It's a weird story >because he sells the land that is already settled to the settlers :) Nice >arraignment for both parties in a way. >Colin Brooks > > >In a message dated 3/31/2010 12:17:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >[email protected] writes: > >On April 2, 1741, William Allen deeded 500 acres at the junction of the >Monocacy Creek and Lehigh River to the Moravian Church > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 7 >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:13:51 +0000 (UTC) >From: [email protected] >Subject: [S-I] Please complain to the Admin >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: > <[email protected]a.mail.comcast.net> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >Hi folks, > >Please send complaints to the admin, not the list. It reduces the junk posts and brawls. > >Also, when complaining about people not deleting stuff from digests, please change the subject line to something appropriate instead of leaving the digest name. More people will actually read your post. > >You can generally reach the admin of rootsweb lists by sending an email to [email protected] . > >If anyone thinks I do a particularly poor job, I agree with you, so how about taking over??!! I would like to free up some time. > >Anyone who continues to complain on the list will be immediately deputized to run the list. > >Linda Merle (Stuck forever as List Admin) > > >------------------------------ > >To contact the SCOTCH-IRISH list administrator, send an email to >[email protected] > >To post a message to the SCOTCH-IRISH mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > >__________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >email with no additional text. > > >End of SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 5, Issue 96 >*******************************************

I have a mention in an 1847 will of a "Thomas BRADFORD of Drumrule in the Co Monaghan & now of Philadelphia". I suspect that since there is no townland called "Drumrule" that it may be Drumroosk, Parish of Tullycorbet, Co. Monaghan - although other townlands may be near enough in pronounciation to qualify. The will is posted on my web site at: http://www.thesilverbowl.com/documents/1847_will_AC_Bradford.htm Does this ring bells for anyone? Suggestions? Sharon Oddie Brown Roberts Creek, BC, Canada History Project: http://www.thesilverbowl.com/ Some Become Flowers: http://www.harbourpublishing.com/title/SomeBecomeFlowers Family Tree: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=silverbowl

This may be the parish of Drummully in the barony of Darty, county of Monaghan with the majority of this parish situated in County Fermanagh. Lee Ramsey -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sharon Oddie Brown Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [S-I] Thomas BRADFORD of Monaghan and Philadelphia 1847 I have a mention in an 1847 will of a "Thomas BRADFORD of Drumrule in the Co Monaghan & now of Philadelphia". I suspect that since there is no townland called "Drumrule" that it may be Drumroosk, Parish of Tullycorbet, Co. Monaghan - although other townlands may be near enough in pronounciation to qualify. The will is posted on my web site at: http://www.thesilverbowl.com/documents/1847_will_AC_Bradford.htm Does this ring bells for anyone? Suggestions? Sharon Oddie Brown Roberts Creek, BC, Canada History Project: http://www.thesilverbowl.com/ Some Become Flowers: http://www.harbourpublishing.com/title/SomeBecomeFlowers Family Tree: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=silverbowl ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, I have looked at that one too. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee K. Ramsey" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Thomas BRADFORD of Monaghan and Philadelphia 1847 > This may be the parish of Drummully in the barony of Darty, county of > Monaghan with the majority of this parish situated in County Fermanagh. > > Lee Ramsey > Sharon Oddie Brown Roberts Creek, BC, Canada History Project: http://www.thesilverbowl.com/ Some Become Flowers: http://www.harbourpublishing.com/title/SomeBecomeFlowers Family Tree: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=silverbowl