Good Old Google! Palatines to America is up and running. Here is a link to a chapter near you. _http://www.palam.org/chapters.php_ (http://www.palam.org/chapters.php) Richard In a message dated 2/28/2010 2:18:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Janet, no, I do not know if there is such a group. I was about to say 'but if I did, I'd google for it" but there are a lot of small organizations that actually don't have any Internet presence. Most of the ones I keep hearing about are small, local groups, but why not a national group? There are certainly societies in the world. See http://www.irishpalatines.org . A lot of organizations are becoming defunct through an inability to figure out a way to survive a growing population that thinks all they have to do to find ancestors is post on a message board at rootsweb. Then wait a day or so <grin>! Or they get heavily into the habit of Internet genealogy and they don't join or support local or ethnic groups. These groups in the past provided much of the material that is available now by finding, saving, transcribing, and publishing material. Since they have fewer volunteers less and less is getting done and it is our fault! One group that focuses on German migration is the Immigrant Genealogical Society: http://www.immigrantgensoc.org/ . Its journal is awesome -- and rare to find. This list has always 'covered' other Protestant ethnic groups in Ireland because "Scotch Irish" is not an Irish ethnic group. It is an American one. I can point you to research by the Scotch Irish Society of America to prove that. I'm not typing it in again -- but it's in the archives which you can search. In an area of America larger than Europe, the majority of the settlers were Protestants from Ulster. Others assimilated into their culture. They comprise: American Indians, Africans, English, Scots, Germans, etc -- whoever else was about. In some areas Protestants from Ulster made up 90% or more of the populace, but in others it was less. So when your grandmother said "We are Scotch Irish" she wasn't signaling to you that her ancestors were from Ulster or were of Scots origin (though she might have thought she was). She was really indicating where in America her ancestors had lived and which ethnic identity they'd hung their hat on. Included in that ethnic tag was 'we came! from Ulster and are of Scots origin'. You tend to buy into the whole lock stock and barrell. In reality, in Ulster, there are many people of English, Welsh, French, German, Irish, etc origins. Some of them are Protestants and some are Catholic. If they've not read a few books or otherwise educated themselves, they may believe their ancestors were from Scotland. Or if Catholic, they'd be ashamed to learn their ancestors were not Irish. However in reality, as DNA has now proven, Ulster is a melting pot. Many Irish assimilated into the settlers and settlers assimilated into Irish. Only 400 years ago the ethnicity of Ulster was much more complex but in the course of history people were presented with only two choices. Most people, coming to colonial America, had NO choice regarding religion (and ethnicity). Many colonies had a state religion. Even in areas where the colony couldn't enforce the official religion (uplands of Virginia, for example), there were no Catholic churches and no priests. You could not possibly remain a Catholic -- you could not celebrate the sacraments as a Catholic. If this was important to you, you went to Maryland where there were Catholic churches and priests -- as well as adjoining areas of Pennsylvania. Otherwise your children assimilated into 'Scotch Irish" and your great grandchildren assumed the family were Protestant in Ireland because they most definitely were Scotch Irish here. Unfortunately for the poor Irish Catholic, the German Catholic communities of colonial Pennsylvania didn't welcome him. The snotty Baltimorians may have also turned their noses up at him. Many of these people were English and Scots recusants from very old, upper class families. They were not so fond of people they'd not hire as servants, even. The German Catholic records in PA have few Irish names. Once the Revolution was over, patterns changed in America and people left their ethnic enclaves (and way of thinking) and a new nation was formed with very different values with fewer class and ethnic distinctions. Plus finally they could all cross the Alleghenies and settle the west, which was difficult, and meant pulling together as one people or end up slaughtered by the Indians. So after the Revolution the Irish and German Catholics were celebrating the sacraments together in western Pennsylvania -- including the sacrament of marriage. Meanwhile the memory of various ethnic groups in Ireland has faded. Ignorance isn't a modern invention. In the mid 1600s There was a colony of I think Flemish lace makers living in Dublin who were identified in a 'census' as Irish because they didn't speak English; therefore they msut be Irish, right? Wrong guy was put in charge of THAT census <grin>! By the way, the removal of Irish by Cromwell to the west Indies was an atrocity of epic proportions, whitewashed over by English historians. The people sent off were NOT Ulster Protestants, who supported Cromwell as he wasn't an Irish Catholic and who did, after many years, finally put down the Rising of 1642. They were Irish, mostly elsewhere in Ireland. Besides the book already mentioned (which I own and have read), see http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/1 638 . This post builds a connection to the west Indies and America. You DO find people with Irish surnames manifesting in the continental colonies who seem to not be Irish, culturally speaking. Where did they come from? West Indies, where they were sent a hundred years before, is one answer and sometimes you can even find proof! It is good to study history because without some knowledge of it, you may waste your life looking for an ancestor in Ireland whose family was 100 years gone from Ireland. This ancestor may well be Protestant and to be culturally Scotch Irish but a little DNA testing will show he's of southern Irish origin. Perhaps a rare survivor of the gulags of the West Indies where the Irish died much faster than African slaves. It was a death sentence. NO ONE returned to Ireland, ever. But some did turn up in coastal America -- and assimilated into Scotch Irish or Coastal Anglican Merchant, Philadelphia Friend, or Yankee farmer, or New Jersey Marsh Bunny, or whatever <grin>. Apparently there are church records (see bibliography of "Hell or Barbados"). I wonder if there are DNA studies of the Redshanks of Barbados?? Haven't seen any. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:07:33 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Palatines/Nellesin It's interesting to encounter Palatines on this list. At one time our area had an active Palatines to America Chapter - I think centered in Columbus, OH (?) - with a group of it organized to meet in my home-town. By that time, although still very much feeling a product primarily of the UK - father descended from mostly Scottish and Scotch-Irish roots, I uncovered a lot of German on my Mother's side with a wee bit creeping in through marriage on my father's side - also I was studying German in college at that time - so I became a member. When the group here in town disbanded, I lost touch eventually with the main Chapter. By any chance does anyone know if this still exists as a national genealogical group? Janet Mc. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message