Re; 'Pennsylvania has a HUGE collection of land records on line. Unlike several other colonies/states, it has good land records. You start with the warrant register, by the way'. ... yes I got what I needed last week on portal.state.pa with regard to warrant registers, what I expected to be there was there. What I hoped to be there was there. Now I need plat maps for the area to see the proximity of families to each other,...need time on that site to find my way around! EXCELLENT site! What I'm doing is too complicated to explain but I'll try...certain 'seemingly unrelated' people of same surname turning up in one location in US, then following them around and they all turn up in some place else,.... then one ups sticks here in Ireland a century later and ends up in the middle of them all. So, why does this 'seemingly unrelated person' years later leave Ireland and just end up in this particular township of all places??...Coincidence? I don't think so!! Why? Because looking at the names associated with one 'family unit'..then looking at another 'family unit', then looking at another one who then ended up in same township plus looking at one line that did not emigrate I find them all marrying families with the same mix of surnames on the lines..one line married Chambers, another line married Chambers, the line that stayed in Ireland married Chambers for example....then there are Dennys, etc.. Just too many coincidences.....too many mirror images!! Unfortunately one line is done and published on internet as gospel, but when looked at, I know of one mirror image associated with it but the wrong image, (from 1860 census if I remember correctly), so it is like using a paper bag to carry water. It is because of this that I cannot reveal the surname of these 4 lines!! Researching collateral families might hold the key to connecting the four.... I've already found , (due to warrant registers!) that the 'seemingly unrelated one' who left Ireland YEARS later ended up living on a neighbouring property to a family (of different surname via 2 known marriages ) that were directly related to a 'seemingly unrelated' line that emigrated earlier!! Another coincidence?? (as a direct neighbour of kin to another line!!) I know coincidences happen, 1860 census mix up for example, but there are just too many coincidences...too many!!! Basically all I need now are Plat maps just to see one property in relation to the other if possible but then I'll be going back in time for 3 of the 4 lines....for collateral families! Simple! :-))... I'll look for maps myself because goodness knows what might turn up on a website which I would miss if I just got maps from someone...(everything here is rhetorical!!) otherwise will holler! DH On 18/12/2011 08:00, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Subject: Re: [S-I] Surname Spellingssss in Deeds/Wills by Clerks > To:scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <96039114.1303769.1324135904306.JavaMail.root@sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Yeh, I think three township/county name changes is the norm in most states. I thought it was bad till I did some research in Ontario. I think there were four in that case. > > It's a little like research in England, only there instead of civil parishes changing you have parishes splitting and chapels of ease. Arrrg...... > > How do you research them? They sell these huge books for professional genealogists that have lots of maps and the dates of when the counties were formed. The Redbook, for example. I own them, but I usually use the Internet. You study the history of the county and then research its parent, etc. > > You may have to research the history of township evolution too. Usually for eastern PA you can do that on the Internet.www.usgenweb.com is the hub. The rule is that the records for the later county would be in the parent county. Usually that's true, but not always. > > Records for what would be Pittsburgh were in Bedford County (which was Cumberland) for a nine month period in the late 1700s. I was researching one guy in Bedford county who was taxed in "Pitt Township". I think he was a little west of what we think of as Bedford County<grin>. I think that was Pittsburgh! > > Pennsylvania has a HUGE collection of land records on line. Unlike several other colonies/states, it has good land records. You start with the warrant register, by the way. > http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=512&objID=3184&&SortOrder=100&level=4&parentCommID=3162&menuLevel=Level_4&mode=2 > > The process to learn how to use these records effectively used to require a half hour tutoring, with handout, at the Archives. This was followed by a half day or so of total confusion and frequent questions. this they warned you to expect. So if it is bewildering on the Internet, it's not your Alzheimers<grin>. It looks like they got all the info on the page above. > > They also have good military records on line. The Revolutionary military records are almost a census of all adult men, excepting those in the Clink for being Loyalists and men serving in Washington or Fayette's armies (future federal troops). They were mustered by area so you also learn exactly where he lived. There is a thin book that I own that maps these army units into townships. You just need to know the name of his officer. > > > > If you need any help give a hollar. We might not help, but you'll feel better. > > Linda Merle

Hi Dave, You are on a roll! We're all jealous. >So, why does this 'seemingly unrelated person' years later leave Ireland and just end up in this particular township of all >places??...Coincidence? I don't think so!! There's couple kinds of migration patterns. One of them is called 'chain' -- where one person goes over and then others join. that's probably what you are looking at. Often people wrote letters back home and that inspired others to come over. They may have been invited, even. You needed hands to fell trees and labor was always in short supply. One famous example is William Johnston, the famous Indian guide, trader, and grandfather. I say 'grandfather' because the Indians like him so much they offered him their daughters and he fathered many Indians. He was a Catholic boy from Meath. He grew up and was sent over to New York to help out his rich uncle Peter Warren. He quickly surpassed his uncle. As his roots are in Ulster, he's not off topic. His story is here: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Sir_William_Johnson,_1st_Baronet People rarely migrated alone unless they came as indentured servants, guests of the Crown (criminals), or jumped ship. I have heard of those. They may have traveled alone but their final destination was a place where either family or people from the same village were already settled. Exceptions may be made for school masters and other professionals. Another common pattern was people migrating in a congregation. Unfortunately in the 1700s, the areas from which a congregation was drawn in Ireland could be huge. For example when the Rev. Martin left with his congregation, his 'beat' covered all of Antrim and County Down. However there were only a handful of Reformed congregations in those two counties, so you can still figure out where yours were from. Sometimes cluster migration was political. In 1795 a group of people from southern Tyrone and Fermanagh left on the Eliza after making some United Irish speeches about how bad it was there and how they hated living with bigots and all that. Some of them eventually settled in south eastern Butler County (Then Westmoreland). They were mixed Catholic and Protestant. They were initially serviced out of Latrobe (St. Vincents) and known as the Buffalo Mission. Then they sent around a petition get their own priest. That petition was signed by both Catholics and Protestants (rendering it un-useful for determining religion). This was the start of the Pittsburgh Diocese, the first one west of the Allegheny Mountains. This is why they tell us we should always study the neighbors because they were neighbors in Ireland too. If your family came over as a family they were fairly well of in Ulster. They had to pay to bring everyone over. So it ups the likelihood of finding records that identify them -- especially in the deed books. Look for memorials. They may have sold their improvements on land they didn't own but were tenants. This was due to the Ulster Custom, an important concept to understand that made a huge difference in the relative wealth of farmers in Ulster as opposed to the rest of Ireland. However tell us more about your Chambers. There were the famous Chambers brothers who founded Chambersburg in Pennsylvania. Are these the guys you mean? They were in County Antrim. My Anderson ancestors were recruited by them on a trip home where it is known they recruited friends and neighbors. But I don't know where in ANtrim they lived. Linda Merle