Hi William, maybe someone else has some ideas. Where you are -- we all are, btw. 1. Find a copy of Ryan "Irish Records" or settle for Fianna's list of resources. Create a large spreadsheet or table for yourself. Then methodically search every source mentioned. Place results in a second table (indexed to the first). Then analyze the results for patterns and clues. 2. Locate and read all local history. You may learn about these in 1. Many of them are not indexed so you have scan the usually thin volumes. 3. Locate and read all histories of churches in the area. Many of these histories are full of names. They are rarely indexed and most are under a hundred pages. The FHL has a huge collection of local history and church histories. WHere do you get their names? Number 1. Also googling on the Internet. Another source is gazettees. There are several on the Internet for Ireland. Note the names of the large landowners, etc, in the area. 4. Search the FHL for church histories and records you can get on microfilm. 5. Research Griffiths and the Tithe Applotments in your area. NOte the names of the landlords that your ancestors lived on. 6. Researdh the estates of the landlords your ancestors lived on. These estate records may contain information on your ancestors. Start with PRONI. 7. Read histories of Ulster such as Bardon's history and Elliott's "Catholics of Ulster". The reason I specifically mention these two is that they will help you find your ancestors. "Their history" and "our history" will help your chest swell and reinforce myths that may but may not be true for your family. 8. Read Falley "Irish and Scotch Irish Ancestral Research". Find and read articles that teach you how to do estate research in IReland. The FHL used to have a large binder of helpful articles. Googling will turn up a few too. Trying to do genealogy in Ireland without learning how isn't as awful as trying to do brain surgery before attending med school, but it can be very frustrating. You think you can't do anything, but you could if you knew a little more. By the same token, learning how to interpret names you find (or don't find) on lists is a critical skill for doing research in Ireland. I attended a couple lectures on the subject. Not the most fascinating lectures on the syllabus -- but they sure did help me out a lot!! It has been said (in some course I took) that with Irish genealogy you should spend 30 percent of your time learning, 30 percent researching how to find records, and only 30 percent actually looking at records. Yet we often, or I at least, feel like if I'm not cranking through film or looking at a record I'm not doing research. Not true, I learned. When I accepted that learning ever more was part of the task and that trying to find things was as well, I did a lot better. Any time you find yourself not knowing what to do next -- it's time to learn something somehow. Serendipity will often lead you to what you need to do next. So we shouldn't hear from you for a few years, right <GRIN>??!!! Seriously, just looking at all the resources listed in Ryan will cheer you up. Land records probably won't do much for you. In Irish genealogy, unless your ancestors were well off, they're the last resort. Why? Most Irish didn't own land. Why do you think they all left? If you think land records will help you, it's a sign to me that you need to take another look at your basic Irish genealogy in book or class form. Second reason they're the last is that they are very poorly indexed. And they are hand written. Most likely you've not trained in reading the old handwriting. If you are like my mother and most sof the rest of us, this won't stop you at all <grin>. You can get books to help. Just be aware it is tedious and could make you postal <grin>! What can be buried in the land records are memorials and also deeds that list all the major tenants. These names won't show up in the indexes so you have to read all the deeds in your area. This is the postal part <grin>. You can get them on microfilm and spread the misery out for a month by reading at your FHL. So it is worth it to read these but usually not today. Plus all the data you gathered before will help you spot critical clues. I fyou don't know who their landlords were, you're flying blind in a storm with no radar. There's a lot to do, but much of it is not anything you really learned from doing American genealogy. You tend to need to learn special strategies for Irish genealogy. It has been said it is a lot like doing slave genealogy -- very indirect -- because your ancestor's records, if any exist, are hidden in the records of others. You must figure out who those others are. If your Montgomeries were better off, you stand more of a likelihood to find traces of them. Id say in wills, but many don't survive. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "WJMontgomery" <wjmntgmry@comcast.net> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, January 1, 2012 11:49:03 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] The Montgomerys of 1718 Thanks to all, and Happy New Year! The website about Hamilton and Montgomery of 1606 is enlightening and most informative. I have referred to and quoted from it often. I have seen Mullin's Muster Roll of ca 1630, the Hearth Money Roll ca 1663 and Pyke's Survey of 1725 and have found the names mentioned but have found those possibilities to be "end of the road", until perhaps finding "directions signs" here. Alsop's of 1765 would be about 120 years after William b 1675's grandfather John's ca 1645 birth. John would have remained in Ireland in 1718 being about the age of 65 when he saw his son and grandson's leave for America. But John's "remaining behind" is an assumption. Until recently, I believed John's son Robert b ca 1660 to have remained behind, too, which was found to be wrong. Another assumption is that John's line in Ireland ended with his sons and families and descendants leaving for America. But then, perhaps not all his children emigrated, and another son named John stayed behind and is the John mentioned in Pyke's Survey(??). So many possibilities in this "forest" of Montgomerys. The line goes as such, as has been "built", to date: John b ca 1645, m Isabella Shaw (perhaps finding the Shaws may help?) Robert b ca 1660, m Mary McCullom (perhaps finding the McCulloms may help?) William b ca 1675, m 1695 Mary Aiken (perhaps finding the Aikens may help?) James b Ireland 1702, m 1732 Mary Henry in Massachusetts Land records for Garvagh and Aghadowey? Church (Presbyterian) records in either town area? (William was one of 14 founders of Christ Church, the Presbyterian Church of Hopkinton, Massachusetts, in the year 1724.) William J. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lunney Family" <jglunney@eircom.net> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] The Montgomerys of 1718 > The Rev Hugh Mullin's book on Aghadowey a parish and its linen > industry gives the Muster Roll on Ironmongers estate ca 1630 (ie > including some townlands of Aghadowey). There is a Robert Mungomery > The Hearth Money Roll indexed in same book has Alexander Montgomery > in "Bellbrillen" presumably Ballybrittan ca 1663 > Pyke's 1725 survey of tenants has John Montgomery in Bwalla O'Cahane. > Not all townlands are extant in this survey, and it's after your > Montgomerys left anyhow > 1765 Alsop's survey Ballicaan John McGomery > No Montgomerys in Balybrittan or Ballycahan in 1833 Tithe Applotment > Survey > > Linde L > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message