Hi, Linda. I think that you are right on the money with your comment " Elliott's "Catholics of Ulster" very interesting reading no matter who you think your ancestors were." Recently, I have been looking in more depth at the history of the Laggan region trying to understand how the turmoil of the 1610-1650 period affected the individual I suspect might have been my ancestor. He was mentioned in Pynnar's Survey as one of the early tenants of a Donegal Undertaker but did not show up in the muster roll in 1630 for that Undertaker. Pynnar's survey also noted that many of the tenants had not taken the oath. As I now understand it, if they did not take an oath that they would be loyal subjects of the English king and be Protestant (i.e. Church of Ireland) they would not be regarded by the conditions placed on Undertakers as acceptable tenants for Plantation purposes. However, a man with the same name did show up on a muster roll just a few miles away in Strabane in Co. Tyrone. The interesting thing is that, except for the Chief Undertaker there who was the Earl of Abercorn, many of the other Undertakers in the west Ardstraw area were noted as remaining Catholic. Both Pynnar's survey and the earlier one noted that these folks, several of whom were relatives of the Earl, were also not in compliance with the restriction on leasing land to the "mere Irish". Some of them even sided with the Irish in the later rebellions and for a time lost their land. So, I'm now convinced that the situation with respect to religion was not nearly as clear cut as I formerly believed, at least in the early period of the Plantation. John Carey -----Original Message----- From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lmerle@comcast.net Sent: January-28-12 4:29 PM To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [S-I] Plantation of Down Hi John, another one is Jonathan Bardon's "Plantation of Ulster ". I have it on order but haven't read it yet. The Blurb says: "The Plantation of Ulster was the most ambitious scheme of colonisation ever attempted in modern Europe, and one of the largest European migrations of the period. It was a pivotal episode in Irish history, sending shock waves reverberating down the centuries. In this vivid account, the author punctures some generally held assumptions: despite slaughter and famine, the province was not completely depopulated as was often asserted at the time; the native Irish were not deliberately given the most infertile land; some of the most energetic planters were Catholic; and the Catholic Church there emerged stronger than before. Above all, natives and newcomers fused to a greater degree than is widely believed: apart from recent immigrants, nearly all Ulster people today have the blood of both Planter and Gael flowing in their veins. Nevertheless, memories of dispossession and massacre, etched into the folk memory, were to ignite explosive outbreaks of intercommunal conflict down to o! ur own time. The Plantation was also the beginning of a far greater exodus to North America. Subsequently, descendants of Ulster planters crossed the Atlantic in their tens of thousands to play a central role in shaping the United States of America." Another is "The Plantation of Ulster" by Philip Robinson. It focuses on the process of colonization. Somewhere there's another book I like, but I can't find it right now. Later in history ....I see on my bookshelf "Cromwellian Ireland" by T C Barnard and "The Williamite War in Ireland 1688-1691" by Richard Doherty. Bardon's "History of Ulster" is probably the best (certainly the thickest) general history of Ulster. I also found, for general history of Ulster and its inhabitants, Elliott's "Catholics of Ulster" very interesting reading no matter who you think your ancestors were. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Carey" <johnca@quickclic.net> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 1:23:07 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Plantation of Down It's not a scholarly book but you might check out http://www.hamiltonmontgomery1606.com/ John Carey -----Original Message----- From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David N. Young Sent: January-28-12 12:11 PM To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: [S-I] Plantation of Down Can anyone please recommend a good modern scholarly book about the plantation in [present] Co. Down [that Linda mentioned as being different than the others in the Irish N. East? Thanks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi John, one of the truisms about English history and law is that the further you are from London, the less anyone observed it. Donegal was rather far! Also King James had a keen interest in the Plantation, but his son did not. So one he passed on, all the laws were largely ignored. Two other 'gotchas': servitors and native plantations. The soldiers, etc, who fought the war, were given lands largely in the western parts of Ulster, where there was the most natives and the greatest need for seasoned soldiers with experience in Ireland. Many of the soldiers were 'soldiers of fortune', not great lords. Then there was Cavin, where the 'natives' were given plantations, much smaller lots, of course. This is in Hanna "The Scotch Irish". Most, if not all of these Irish would lose their lands by the end of the 1600s. It became almost impossible to be Irish and Catholic and to be a land owner. One way or another you got caught up in the politics of the time and came out on the losing side. Even being loyal to the King of England wasn't sufficient to get you through the 1650s. You had to prove loyality to Parliament, which beheaded King Charlie, who was accused of being a Catholic. Also the chiefs of various Irish clans were given small estates. For example in the very area of interest the descendants of the McCahan clan were given estates. I got the townlands, etc., in my records here. However they would all lose these lands within a generation or two, largely due to their not adapting immediately to the new order (paying taxes, etc) and outright crookery on the part of various British, who tricked them out of their holdings. It's quite a sad story, repeated all over Ulster. It is where our ancestors learned to destroy native cultures, an art they perfected in America. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Carey" <johnca@quickclic.net> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, 28 January, 2012 6:20:21 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Plantation of Down Hi, Linda. I think that you are right on the money with your comment " Elliott's "Catholics of Ulster" very interesting reading no matter who you think your ancestors were." Recently, I have been looking in more depth at the history of the Laggan region trying to understand how the turmoil of the 1610-1650 period affected the individual I suspect might have been my ancestor. He was mentioned in Pynnar's Survey as one of the early tenants of a Donegal Undertaker but did not show up in the muster roll in 1630 for that Undertaker. Pynnar's survey also noted that many of the tenants had not taken the oath. As I now understand it, if they did not take an oath that they would be loyal subjects of the English king and be Protestant (i.e. Church of Ireland) they would not be regarded by the conditions placed on Undertakers as acceptable tenants for Plantation purposes. However, a man with the same name did show up on a muster roll just a few miles away in Strabane in Co. Tyrone. The interesting thing is that, except for the Chief Undertaker there who was the Earl of Abercorn, many of the other Undertakers in the west Ardstraw area were noted as remaining Catholic. Both Pynnar's survey and the earlier one noted that these folks, several of whom were relatives of the Earl, were also not in compliance with the restriction on leasing land to the "mere Irish". Some of them even sided with the Irish in the later rebellions and for a time lost their land. So, I'm now convinced that the situation with respect to religion was not nearly as clear cut as I formerly believed, at least in the early period of the Plantation. John Carey -----Original Message----- From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lmerle@comcast.net Sent: January-28-12 4:29 PM To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [S-I] Plantation of Down Hi John, another one is Jonathan Bardon's "Plantation of Ulster ". I have it on order but haven't read it yet. The Blurb says: "The Plantation of Ulster was the most ambitious scheme of colonisation ever attempted in modern Europe, and one of the largest European migrations of the period. It was a pivotal episode in Irish history, sending shock waves reverberating down the centuries. In this vivid account, the author punctures some generally held assumptions: despite slaughter and famine, the province was not completely depopulated as was often asserted at the time; the native Irish were not deliberately given the most infertile land; some of the most energetic planters were Catholic; and the Catholic Church there emerged stronger than before. Above all, natives and newcomers fused to a greater degree than is widely believed: apart from recent immigrants, nearly all Ulster people today have the blood of both Planter and Gael flowing in their veins. Nevertheless, memories of dispossession and massacre, etched into the folk memory, were to ignite explosive outbreaks of intercommunal conflict down to o! ur own time. The Plantation was also the beginning of a far greater exodus to North America. Subsequently, descendants of Ulster planters crossed the Atlantic in their tens of thousands to play a central role in shaping the United States of America." Another is "The Plantation of Ulster" by Philip Robinson. It focuses on the process of colonization. Somewhere there's another book I like, but I can't find it right now. Later in history ....I see on my bookshelf "Cromwellian Ireland" by T C Barnard and "The Williamite War in Ireland 1688-1691" by Richard Doherty. Bardon's "History of Ulster" is probably the best (certainly the thickest) general history of Ulster. I also found, for general history of Ulster and its inhabitants, Elliott's "Catholics of Ulster" very interesting reading no matter who you think your ancestors were. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Carey" <johnca@quickclic.net> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 1:23:07 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Plantation of Down It's not a scholarly book but you might check out http://www.hamiltonmontgomery1606.com/ John Carey -----Original Message----- From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David N. Young Sent: January-28-12 12:11 PM To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: [S-I] Plantation of Down Can anyone please recommend a good modern scholarly book about the plantation in [present] Co. Down [that Linda mentioned as being different than the others in the Irish N. East? Thanks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message