Well your last sentence certainly is true! I know even some of the Undertakers didn't even arrive or take up the land... Tullyniskan, Desertcreat, and Killyman in Tyrone are areas where I also need to find about, so like you, I'd be inclined to believe it points to a Scottish descent, he became Rector of Tullanisken/Desertcreat in 1614, appointed via Trinity College, so I can check that out next time I'm in Dublin. His son got 1000 acres there in 1840's from Lord Castlestewart. Boy did they move around...followed them over time through six counties so far...not to mention USA, Australia etc. Your reply is what I thought and expected but no harm in asking just in case! Again, thank you. Re: [S-I] 17th century Ulster records for Individuals on Montgomery,Hamilton, McDonald plantations /Date:/ Thu, 9 Feb 2012 19:59:55 -0500 /References:/ <4F344A02.4010804@utvinternet.com> /In-Reply-To:/ <4F344A02.4010804@utvinternet.com> DH, I don't believe any rent books of tenants survive pre-1700, and even at that time it's pretty sparse. The only thing recording "who got what" was acreages to the big undertakers that were to bring planters. I was only able to put two and two together regarding my ancestors on Lord Ochiltree's (Andrew Stewart's) land because they have many farms in the hearth rolls around Tullyniskan, Desertcreat, and Killyman in Tyrone. Stewart was from Ayrshire and recruited a lot of planters in Dumfries & Galloway where my ancestors were from, so there's really no actual link besides that. The earliest records of some of the McLain brothers were actually on English land (Clogher, Tyrone in 1626 and Bellaghy, L'Derry in 1630) which just goes to show you how much moving around there was and also reinforces what Leyburn said in his book "The Scotch-Irish: A Social History", that tenants were not loyal to one estate. Clearly there was a lack of Englishmen for the amount of land that were in the hands of English undertakers. A lot of English packed up and went home as they weren't made out for this rough frontier life. I believe Londonerry (planted by the London companies) became almost wholly Scotch in character by the 1640s. I believe a lot of Scottish merchants trading in Coleraine/Londonderry/Belfast would have been inundated with advertisements for cheap land throughout Ulster and would have had their pick. There was a strict plan for who got what, but really after 1620, anyone could have ended up anywhere. Chris

Very welcome! Have you checked "Alumni Dublienses"? Maybe that's what you meant by Dublin, what's your ancestor's name? I have some photocopied pages of E and M surnames that I found for my line, but I'm not sure if that volume goes back to the 1600s. Chris Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: D H <hallmark1@utvinternet.com> Sender: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:36:33 To: <SCOTCH-IRISH@rootsweb.com> Reply-To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [S-I] 17th century Ulster records for Individuals on Montgomery, Hamilton, McDonald plantations Well your last sentence certainly is true! I know even some of the Undertakers didn't even arrive or take up the land... Tullyniskan, Desertcreat, and Killyman in Tyrone are areas where I also need to find about, so like you, I'd be inclined to believe it points to a Scottish descent, he became Rector of Tullanisken/Desertcreat in 1614, appointed via Trinity College, so I can check that out next time I'm in Dublin. His son got 1000 acres there in 1840's from Lord Castlestewart. Boy did they move around...followed them over time through six counties so far...not to mention USA, Australia etc. Your reply is what I thought and expected but no harm in asking just in case! Again, thank you. Re: [S-I] 17th century Ulster records for Individuals on Montgomery,Hamilton, McDonald plantations /Date:/ Thu, 9 Feb 2012 19:59:55 -0500 /References:/ <4F344A02.4010804@utvinternet.com> /In-Reply-To:/ <4F344A02.4010804@utvinternet.com> DH, I don't believe any rent books of tenants survive pre-1700, and even at that time it's pretty sparse. The only thing recording "who got what" was acreages to the big undertakers that were to bring planters. I was only able to put two and two together regarding my ancestors on Lord Ochiltree's (Andrew Stewart's) land because they have many farms in the hearth rolls around Tullyniskan, Desertcreat, and Killyman in Tyrone. Stewart was from Ayrshire and recruited a lot of planters in Dumfries & Galloway where my ancestors were from, so there's really no actual link besides that. The earliest records of some of the McLain brothers were actually on English land (Clogher, Tyrone in 1626 and Bellaghy, L'Derry in 1630) which just goes to show you how much moving around there was and also reinforces what Leyburn said in his book "The Scotch-Irish: A Social History", that tenants were not loyal to one estate. Clearly there was a lack of Englishmen for the amount of land that were in the hands of English undertakers. A lot of English packed up and went home as they weren't made out for this rough frontier life. I believe Londonerry (planted by the London companies) became almost wholly Scotch in character by the 1640s. I believe a lot of Scottish merchants trading in Coleraine/Londonderry/Belfast would have been inundated with advertisements for cheap land throughout Ulster and would have had their pick. There was a strict plan for who got what, but really after 1620, anyone could have ended up anywhere. Chris ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message