We now call those guys who never arrived 'land speculators' <grin>. They're not a recent invention. I was googling for Desertcreat, etc, after discovering your parishes don't overlap the ones I have history on in Tyrone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertcreat is pretty useful. PRONI also has a list of townlands: http://applications.proni.gov.uk/geogindx/parishes/par091.htm The Placename project may have some history. This site has some Griffiths info including immediate lessor: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tyrone/parishes/griffiths/desertcreat/annaghmore.html Looking at these you see Andy Mulholland was a Big Guy. You didn't want to piss him off or you might have to emigrate to America! Lots of names of the local Irish tribes: Hagen, Henry (O"Cahans), Mulholland, etc. On BALLYNACROY you have GREER, Thomas In Fee (Owner) Meaning Thomas owned it, flat out. Someone wrote a book on how to interpret Griffiths. It's not a thick book, but it does enable you to squeeze lots of info out. Note how there are different surnames on different townlands. Notice how many different immediate lessors there are. As people rented directly from them, they wre the landlord and he kept the rent records, or his agent did. GENUKI is very good: http://www.genuki.eu/TYR/Place668.htm It has the whole history. NICE map here: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tyrone/parishes/tl/desertcreat_tl.html Note here that desertcreat is included in a Lindsay estate: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tyrone/estates/national-library.html Googling Lindsay estate Tyrone, I find this page: http://www.doclindsay.com/letter_from_ireland/OLD_geography%20and%20chronology.htm This is of course totally different from everything I wrote before, but you can do a lot on the Internet these days! This looks like the same estate: http://www.cotyroneireland.com/estates/lindsayestate.html Probably only some townlands in Desartcreat were in the Lindsay estate. Knowing the Lindsay estate was also called the Loughry estate, I found this: http://www.ancestryireland.com/database.php?filename=db_estate_papers_lindesay_tyrone Names of tenants on the estate of the Lindesays of Loughry near Cookstown, County Tyrone. Source: National Library of Ireland, Ms 5204 Lets you search for names but gotta join. Possibly MS 5204 is in the FHL and can be ordered on microfilm. Hard to figure it out..or remember how you did it last time. There was also an index to these manscripts published in the late 1990s.... Here's a history of the Lindsay estate back into the 1600s: http://www.cafre.ac.uk/index/information-for/past-students/centenary-celebrations/history-of-loughry.htm " The Loughry Estate dates back to 1611 when the land around Loughry was granted to Robert Lindesay by King James 1. The estate remained with the Lindesay family until 1908 when the then Ministry of Agriculture and Technical Instruction purchased the property and established The Ulster Dairy School for girls to study dairying and poultry-keeping courses" So only the Lindsays to track down. That's how us lazy people get a jump up on the scholars toiling away in the library stacks <grin>. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "D H" <hallmark1@utvinternet.com> To: SCOTCH-IRISH@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 9 February, 2012 9:36:33 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] 17th century Ulster records for Individuals on Montgomery, Hamilton, McDonald plantations Well your last sentence certainly is true! I know even some of the Undertakers didn't even arrive or take up the land... Tullyniskan, Desertcreat, and Killyman in Tyrone are areas where I also need to find about, so like you, I'd be inclined to believe it points to a Scottish descent, he became Rector of Tullanisken/Desertcreat in 1614, appointed via Trinity College, so I can check that out next time I'm in Dublin. His son got 1000 acres there in 1840's from Lord Castlestewart. Boy did they move around...followed them over time through six counties so far...not to mention USA, Australia etc. Your reply is what I thought and expected but no harm in asking just in case! Again, thank you. Re: [S-I] 17th century Ulster records for Individuals on Montgomery,Hamilton, McDonald plantations /Date:/ Thu, 9 Feb 2012 19:59:55 -0500 /References:/ <4F344A02.4010804@utvinternet.com> /In-Reply-To:/ <4F344A02.4010804@utvinternet.com> DH, I don't believe any rent books of tenants survive pre-1700, and even at that time it's pretty sparse. The only thing recording "who got what" was acreages to the big undertakers that were to bring planters. I was only able to put two and two together regarding my ancestors on Lord Ochiltree's (Andrew Stewart's) land because they have many farms in the hearth rolls around Tullyniskan, Desertcreat, and Killyman in Tyrone. Stewart was from Ayrshire and recruited a lot of planters in Dumfries & Galloway where my ancestors were from, so there's really no actual link besides that. The earliest records of some of the McLain brothers were actually on English land (Clogher, Tyrone in 1626 and Bellaghy, L'Derry in 1630) which just goes to show you how much moving around there was and also reinforces what Leyburn said in his book "The Scotch-Irish: A Social History", that tenants were not loyal to one estate. Clearly there was a lack of Englishmen for the amount of land that were in the hands of English undertakers. A lot of English packed up and went home as they weren't made out for this rough frontier life. I believe Londonerry (planted by the London companies) became almost wholly Scotch in character by the 1640s. I believe a lot of Scottish merchants trading in Coleraine/Londonderry/Belfast would have been inundated with advertisements for cheap land throughout Ulster and would have had their pick. There was a strict plan for who got what, but really after 1620, anyone could have ended up anywhere. Chris ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am searching for a birth in 1839-40. I have no parents name only that he was born in Ireland. Any ideas how I can find his parents and his birth? David Acheson born April 1839 Ireland. I cannot find when the family came over either but it is thought when he was about 6 months old. It is thought he came to Canada from Ireland and in 1862 was married in Pembroke Canada-moved to Iowa in 1869. -----Original Message----- From: lmerle@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 9:22 PM To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [S-I] 17th century Ulster records for Individuals on Montgomery, Hamilton, McDonald plantations We now call those guys who never arrived 'land speculators' <grin>. They're not a recent invention. I was googling for Desertcreat, etc, after discovering your parishes don't overlap the ones I have history on in Tyrone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertcreat is pretty useful. PRONI also has a list of townlands: http://applications.proni.gov.uk/geogindx/parishes/par091.htm The Placename project may have some history. This site has some Griffiths info including immediate lessor: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tyrone/parishes/griffiths/desertcreat/annaghmore.html Looking at these you see Andy Mulholland was a Big Guy. You didn't want to piss him off or you might have to emigrate to America! Lots of names of the local Irish tribes: Hagen, Henry (O"Cahans), Mulholland, etc. On BALLYNACROY you have GREER, Thomas In Fee (Owner) Meaning Thomas owned it, flat out. Someone wrote a book on how to interpret Griffiths. It's not a thick book, but it does enable you to squeeze lots of info out. Note how there are different surnames on different townlands. Notice how many different immediate lessors there are. As people rented directly from them, they wre the landlord and he kept the rent records, or his agent did. GENUKI is very good: http://www.genuki.eu/TYR/Place668.htm It has the whole history. NICE map here: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tyrone/parishes/tl/desertcreat_tl.html Note here that desertcreat is included in a Lindsay estate: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tyrone/estates/national-library.html Googling Lindsay estate Tyrone, I find this page: http://www.doclindsay.com/letter_from_ireland/OLD_geography%20and%20chronology.htm This is of course totally different from everything I wrote before, but you can do a lot on the Internet these days! This looks like the same estate: http://www.cotyroneireland.com/estates/lindsayestate.html Probably only some townlands in Desartcreat were in the Lindsay estate. Knowing the Lindsay estate was also called the Loughry estate, I found this: http://www.ancestryireland.com/database.php?filename=db_estate_papers_lindesay_tyrone Names of tenants on the estate of the Lindesays of Loughry near Cookstown, County Tyrone. Source: National Library of Ireland, Ms 5204 Lets you search for names but gotta join. Possibly MS 5204 is in the FHL and can be ordered on microfilm. Hard to figure it out..or remember how you did it last time. There was also an index to these manscripts published in the late 1990s.... Here's a history of the Lindsay estate back into the 1600s: http://www.cafre.ac.uk/index/information-for/past-students/centenary-celebrations/history-of-loughry.htm " The Loughry Estate dates back to 1611 when the land around Loughry was granted to Robert Lindesay by King James 1. The estate remained with the Lindesay family until 1908 when the then Ministry of Agriculture and Technical Instruction purchased the property and established The Ulster Dairy School for girls to study dairying and poultry-keeping courses" So only the Lindsays to track down. That's how us lazy people get a jump up on the scholars toiling away in the library stacks <grin>. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "D H" <hallmark1@utvinternet.com> To: SCOTCH-IRISH@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 9 February, 2012 9:36:33 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] 17th century Ulster records for Individuals on Montgomery, Hamilton, McDonald plantations Well your last sentence certainly is true! I know even some of the Undertakers didn't even arrive or take up the land... Tullyniskan, Desertcreat, and Killyman in Tyrone are areas where I also need to find about, so like you, I'd be inclined to believe it points to a Scottish descent, he became Rector of Tullanisken/Desertcreat in 1614, appointed via Trinity College, so I can check that out next time I'm in Dublin. His son got 1000 acres there in 1840's from Lord Castlestewart. Boy did they move around...followed them over time through six counties so far...not to mention USA, Australia etc. Your reply is what I thought and expected but no harm in asking just in case! Again, thank you. Re: [S-I] 17th century Ulster records for Individuals on Montgomery,Hamilton, McDonald plantations /Date:/ Thu, 9 Feb 2012 19:59:55 -0500 /References:/ <4F344A02.4010804@utvinternet.com> /In-Reply-To:/ <4F344A02.4010804@utvinternet.com> DH, I don't believe any rent books of tenants survive pre-1700, and even at that time it's pretty sparse. The only thing recording "who got what" was acreages to the big undertakers that were to bring planters. I was only able to put two and two together regarding my ancestors on Lord Ochiltree's (Andrew Stewart's) land because they have many farms in the hearth rolls around Tullyniskan, Desertcreat, and Killyman in Tyrone. Stewart was from Ayrshire and recruited a lot of planters in Dumfries & Galloway where my ancestors were from, so there's really no actual link besides that. The earliest records of some of the McLain brothers were actually on English land (Clogher, Tyrone in 1626 and Bellaghy, L'Derry in 1630) which just goes to show you how much moving around there was and also reinforces what Leyburn said in his book "The Scotch-Irish: A Social History", that tenants were not loyal to one estate. Clearly there was a lack of Englishmen for the amount of land that were in the hands of English undertakers. A lot of English packed up and went home as they weren't made out for this rough frontier life. I believe Londonerry (planted by the London companies) became almost wholly Scotch in character by the 1640s. I believe a lot of Scottish merchants trading in Coleraine/Londonderry/Belfast would have been inundated with advertisements for cheap land throughout Ulster and would have had their pick. There was a strict plan for who got what, but really after 1620, anyone could have ended up anywhere. Chris ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Registry of Deeds on microfilm is a horror show, and generally you'd have to try really really hard to get anything from looking at deeds that way. However, if you do get a chance to see the actual deeds (or more accurately the actual memorials of actual deeds), it can be worth while. IF (and maybe only IF) you know for sure that your ancestors lived for at least a couple of a generations in a particular townland. If that was the case, then they would most likely have been of at least some degree of solidity in terms of having a stake in the community. Landless and labourers moved abode through the country very often and would not have featured in any way in the documents of the Registry. If you can make a link to a particular townland, even if there are no actual leases from a landowner to a middleman direct to your ancestor, it is worthwhile to look at anything that pertains to the townland of interest, and to those around it. Your ancestor might have been called in to witness a deed, or the deed might specify that the property being leased was bounded by your ancestor's garden, or was formerly owned by your ancestor. There might be other small points of interest; I was looking at an 1808 deed yesterday re the small town of Portglenone, co. Antrim; the property extended to a "line of gooseberry bushes"! And another deed specified that the property was "commonly known by the name Roughpark and Fourthpark"; these names go back most likely to the enclosure of fields in the ?late seventeenth century?, but even more interestingly, the "fourth" refers to a rath or a dun, dating from the Iron Age, and thus might provide a clue to locate the property on a modern or 19th c. map. Linde L.