Hi Linda, Sorry I didn't send my condolences over your father's death, I must have missed that message. I lost my own father 3 years this Christmas Eve, he was 92 and as he served 12 years in the army and was in the Burmese jungle fighting the Japanese, I suppose we are lucky to have had him that long. As for cats, what can I say, our six month old moggie, jumped off the hedge, cracked her jaw straight in halve as she landed on a brick edge. Result over £1,000 in vets fees. She was too young and too nice to be put down, now I've taken out pet insurance. Going back to WDYTYA, our programme is 1 hour long, and as on the BBC there are no commercial adverts. The USA ones are shown on the BBC channels and no adverts either but still only 30 minutes long, so I don't think the people over there are getting their money's worth. Do you have the voice of Mark Strong as the narrator. ?. Last week's 'celebrity' was an American comedienne, her family had originated from County Kildare in Ireland, a great shame they only spent about 5 minutes in that country before she and her brother retired to the pub. I certainly agree with the words OMG and WOW, my problem of late is trying to decipher what some Americans are actually saying.Films in particular are becoming very difficult to understand, and there was silly me thinking that we all spoke English. I've had some interesting e-mails from over your way regarding the family of Conway and Hume in and around the 1650's. So it's always nice to keep plodding away, hoping eventually something comes up. 2013 is a big year, 500 years since the Battle of Flodden, quite an event for the HUME family. I hope that you or someone, has this event in mind ready to publish details when they become available Thanks for your time regards John Hume ----- Original Message ----- From: <lmerle@comcast.net> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple > Hi John, actually I'm really behind at this point -- starting with thank > yous to the people who contacted me regarding my father's death, then my > cat's accident, the lookups are not quite done either. > > You're lucky yours can read and write. They remind me of my Culmers (alas, > a Kent line, not Scotch Irish, though some did go to Ireland, I believe). > As a man with the surname once told me -- Culmer men never do manual > labor. He went into a long list of things they'll do, but they never dirty > their hands. It was funny and probably true excepting that my line had > carpenters and cabinet makers. The senior line in Kent were ship builders. > Supposedly landed at Thanet and spent a few lifetimes doing illuminated > manuscripts for the monks. > > It seems the DNA of the borders is really more like vegetable soups (many > things) and a bowl of spaghetti. Maybe you'll find a match with some of > the main lines of the Humes, eventually. > > I think we have commercials on TV and you do not, which is why our shows > don't run in the same time slot as yours. > > Some of those who do you think you are shows are very interesting. In > other cases we learn how a many different ways a lady with marginal acting > ability can say "Oh wow!" And also we learn, in America at least, about > the deficiencies in the educational system, like the one whereby a country > music personality oh wowed about how the New Englanders invented religious > freedom. > > > > Linda Merle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john.hume" <john.hume@ntlworld.com> > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 7:38:25 AM > Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple > > Dear Linda, > Once again I have to congratulate on such a fine reply. How on earth do > you > find the time to answer nearly all the messages to this site. The > information you have given me goes along with the discoveries already made > by myself. The biggest problem I have discovered before 1700 is the > writing > which was used in the parish records of the north-east. The f's and s's > are > the same, the script is so bunched up as if there was a shortage of paper, > which I think might be the truth. My earliest ancestor was a 'butcher', > which I believe is the second eldest Guild to be founded, sometime around > 1200AD. There rules at that time make very interesting reading, my > conclusion, having worked in the retail trade for 40 years is that the > only > thing that has changed is refrigeration. But to answer your question about > occupations, it seems that every branch of my particular line of HUME has > produced a schoolmaster, mistress, teacher, and any other form of non > physical work. Even today, not one of the current family and extended > family > have worked as a manual labourer, factory worker, miner or maker of > things. > All rather strange for three centuries of the same family. > > It also means that my ancestors could read and write to some degree. > Looking > at marriage certificates it gives me some pleasure when I notice that my > family have been able to write their names in the records, although most > of > the 'ladies' have signed with the proverbial X. > > Started to watch the series of Who Do You Think You Are, USA. Any idea why > they are only 35 minutes long over here, ours are an hour. > Once again, many thanks for your informative reply, > Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year to all. > John Hume > In a windy and cold Nottingham > UK > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <lmerle@comcast.net> > To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple > > >> Hi John, >> >> You don't indicate what occupations your family had in the early 1700s in >> Durham, but if they were not well-off, most likely it'll be difficult to >> trace them without the DNA. My paternal line left Durham about 1881, so >> I'm familiar with the place. Lots of border clan folk moved south or east >> to get jobs in the burgeoning industrial age. Sometimes they were slowly >> migrating from Northumberland. I've been able to trace a few of mine down >> through Northumberland, but `it is difficult. Even now I have met people >> in the area who hate the Scots and haven't forgiven them for raids and >> wars of 400 years or more distant. So having a Scots surname didn't >> increase your popularity. Besides these people being of humble birth, >> they >> had learned to survive by keeping a low profile. It's possible many were >> not members of parishes. >> >> It used to be that one was settled into a parish, where one had to go to >> church, at least in England, or pay fines, and where one eventually had >> the right to claim services if destitute. There were complicated rules >> governing this such as a year's residency. Hence many farmers, coal >> mines, >> and factories, only signed workers on for a length of time shorter than a >> year so that the parish didn't 'gain' them as legal residents. If your >> husband died in a farm or mine accident, then you and the children had to >> hoof it back to wherever it was you were legally from. Or starve or die >> on >> the way. Whatever. These laws created a whole class of itinerant poor who >> had no rights to services. Thus it's hard to find records of them. One >> way >> can be baptisms of children. We've been hampered because many northeast >> parishes were not indexed in IGI. More are now, but there is also a >> website that is indexing them. >> >> Another factor can be the values of the people themselves. Some of them >> simply did not cooperate with authorities. Mine did not register their >> children's births long after it was required that they do so. We have >> never found the civil death or burial of my ancestor's first wife. He >> claims he was a widow when marrying the second. Did he roll her body into >> a gully? They did register the birth of their daughter and he was >> re-married in the same parish by banns. So people thought he was a >> widower. These people can be a challenge for those who believe genealogy >> is a simple exercise of ordering records because sometimes legally >> required documents do not exist or the information is inconsistent. >> >> With a name like Hume, they originated in Scotland at some point. The >> records for the Scots border counties are terrible. Folks were even more >> suspicious of central authorities, as we move from the 18th century back, >> and you also have a lot of records destruction. Back to England -- a >> number of key medieval English taxes were imposed to pay for costs >> incurred in fighting off the Scots and rebuilding the area -- so our area >> was not included at all. >> >> If they seemed to be settled on estates, such as farms, you might check >> for estate records. The problem though usually is the names are so common >> how do you tell them apart? I have a John Armstrong, a blacksmith in a >> village in Northumberland about that time. Next generation headed south >> to >> Durham. He wasn't raised in the parish. No Armstrongs in the parish >> records. Where'd he come from? It sure isn't hard to find Johnny >> Armstrongs in Northumberland. We're before the time when marriage records >> identified his father -- probably another Johnny A. anyway <grin>. >> Hundreds of Armstrongs moved south after King James started hanging them >> from trees at Newcastle. >> >> The further back I get on these lines -- and as I said ALL my father's >> paternal ancestors are from the area -- the more I accumulate every Scots >> and English border clan surname. >> >> The mobile ex-parishal labor force of the day included many Irish. >> Sometimes they returned each year to the same areas to harvest crops, >> eventually, perhaps, remaining. You can find glimpses of them in parish >> records, where they sometimes occur as 'dead Irishman, buried on <date>' >> or 'baptized Irishwoman's child, <date>'. One time I found a parish where >> the vicar swept down on the poor house and baptized all the Irish >> children >> therein. Of course he didn't bother to name them. >> >> One good source for understanding the lives of the poor in the 17th >> century is Christopher Hill, a contemporary socialist historian. He has >> written a series of fascinating works on the common people. One is >> "Liberty Against the Law" which argues that the law in the 17th century >> was used as an instrument of oppression. He cites enclosures, loss of >> traditional rights, 'draconian' punishments for minor offenses, that >> created a landless class of wage laborers. He estimates that only 20 >> percent of the population could have lived comfortably within the law and >> documents dissenters. Some of these lived in ad hoc villages in 'common' >> land -- swamps and forests. Among them were itinerating Baptist >> preachers, >> Quakers, and Methodists, smugglers, pirates, highwaymen, poachers and of >> course 'gypsies', both the ones clearly not of English origins and >> various >> what we now call Travelers -- who were British in origin. >> >> Rich men were sold the right to round up all the homeless in London and >> ship them off as slaves to Virginia and the West Indies in the sixteenth >> and seventeenth centuries. >> >> P 202 documents the history of opposition to church marriages, which he >> says stems from the Lollards. In our area it might go back a lot further >> to common marriage practices such as handfasting that were pre Christian >> and never entirely fell out of practice. >> >> The history is interesting, though the trail of the ancestors is probably >> hopeless <grin>! My paternal line itself I can't get back earlier than >> the >> late 1700s. They were in the parish of Stanhope, which is the highest >> (most mountainous) parish in England. Its parish records are terrible. No >> burial records to speak of either. Tombstones? Ha! I suspect they >> practiced Tibetan air burial up there in the mountains. Early histories >> indicate that the Church of England hardly existed. Some villages were >> Presbyterian though undoubtedly some were Catholic. Presbyterians >> serviced >> from Scotland? No. Minister came from Lancaster, other side of the >> mountain in England, and another place ful of English recusants >> (Catholics). I speak of Presbyterian villages (es. Iresdale) in the late >> 1700s, early 1800s. As the 1800s progressed the church made an effort to >> control the parish of Stanhope but it was already 'burned over' by the >> Methodists by then. Wesley often preached to the lead miners in ! >> the area. The rich are potted in the parish church. Everyone else? If >> they >> were buried there it was without any record kept despite laws requiring >> that they were. What we do have are records of contracts between >> companies >> and lead miners. The lead miners worked tiny mines in family groups. >> They'd been working lead as early as the Roman times. >> >> This is our village: >> http://www.englandsnortheast.co.uk/Weardale.html >> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Weardale >> >> Much history: >> http://www.weardaleway.wanadoo.co.uk/history2.html >> "In December 1569, the valley was the setting for a border fray in which >> a >> large group of mosstroopers (cattle raiders), from Tynedale, made a raid >> to plunder the Wear valley for its livestock while many of the Weardale >> men were away plotting against the Queen in the famous `Rising of the >> North'. Resistance to the raid was expected to be low, but there were >> still a number of Weardale men left to defend their dale. The >> mosstroopers >> were pursued north into the Rookhope valley, as they made off with the >> cattle and sheep. When the Weardale men eventually caught up a fight >> ensued in which four of the Tynedalers lost their lives." >> >> The Tynedalers were of course English too but such mattered little on the >> borders. Needless to say, my ancestors migrated down the Wear in the >> early >> 1800s, finally settling in the Hetton le Hole. We didn't trust the people >> in those other valleys, apparently. >> >> History on the "Rising of the North" is here: >> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Rising_of_the_North >> http://www.englandsnortheast.co.uk/Tudor.html >> >> As for peasant stock -- it is the best! Not only because it is hardy and >> full of genes that have yet to express themselves, but they're actually >> natives, unlike the 'upper classes' of England and Scotland who are >> likely >> to be Normans. While the Normans conquered England, they were invited to >> Scotland by the king to create a feudal state from a land full of bands >> of >> tribal, marauding Gaels and Picts who held their land by right of >> conquest >> and so had no loyalty to a king perched on a big rock off the Firth of >> Forth. Similar to the English valleys of Durham in the late 16th century >> <grin>. >> >> I don't know if it is true or not, but one history of my CULMER line in >> Kent has one going north with Henry VII, I think it was, to kick ass in >> Scotland. He was married off to a Scots heiress and adopted as his >> surname >> the name of her estate: Lindsay. Now the descendants wear kilts and think >> they descend on the male line from picts and gaels. Eh, maybe not. The >> Culmers supposedly were Swedish nobles who came to Kent with the Vikings. >> >> Linda Merle >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "john.hume" <john.hume@ntlworld.com> >> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 4:40:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple >> >> Hi Doralyn. >> Many thanks for your reply. >> Unfortunately I don't think I'm related to any HUME nobility. I joined >> the >> HUME Clan about 5 years ago because of my general interest in anything >> HUME. >> My own family is easy top trace back to Durham in 1721, before then, a >> mystery. My DNA 67 marker ties in with a HUMES in USA, he traces his >> HUMES >> back to Ireland around 1760, but nothing in either of the family trees. >> Out >> of the 30 HUME members of the Hume Clan, having had their DNA taken, I >> and >> Larry (USA) do not match with any other HUME. Most of the others, about >> 20 >> of them are related to Sir Alec Douglas Hume and his ancestors, including >> the Marchmont and Polwarth Humes, all of whom were knighted. So I must >> have >> been from peasant stock. Only certain fact is that I originated from the >> Vikings, proven by DNA and a little 'disease' called Dupuytren's Disease, >> something which attacks mainly the ring finger of either hand. The >> tendons >> tighten up causing the finger(s) to be pulled inwards, unable to >> straighten >> them. Had my right hand operated on last year, my left one is on the way. >> It >> has to be at around 45 degrees before they operate, mind is only 10 >> degrees >> at the moment, so I've a few more years yet. (Jokingly) I put it all down >> to >> the fact that we had to row those Vikings ships all the way from >> Estonia/Norway etc to Ireland. No Sat Navs in those days. >> LOL >> anyway, Thanks for your interest >> regards >> >> John Hume >> wet, windy, cold Nottingham >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <ShortGD@aol.com> >> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 6:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple >> >> >>> Hi John Hume, >>> >>> Interesting that you stated your line goes back to Ireland/Scotland from >>> around 1600. I have very little on the Hume name but from my research on >>> the Conway line I have that George Hume married Mary Unknown and lived >>> in >>> the >>> noted Tully Castle at the time of the Rebellion. I have that his father >>> was Sir John Hume from Scotland and he had a younger brother named >>> Patrick. >>> I thought he may have married Mary Conway; he negotiated for her hand >>> but >>> somehow the plans fell through before her father's death. Would this be >>> your line? >>> >>> Doralyn Short >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 12/6/2011 12:35:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, >>> john.hume@ntlworld.com writes: >>> >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> Like Marilyn I to have had by DNA done, and have about 10 37 and three >>> 67 >>> matches. Of those I have only one 67 marker person who is interested in >>> my >>> line. We think we go back to Ireland/Scotland from around 1600. Finding >>> that >>> information is very difficult at the moment. But why do people bother >>> having >>> their DNA taken at great expense and then not doing anything with the >>> results. I also joined Genes reunites, that is even worst. I've actually >>> connected with countless people, but do they want anything to do with >>> the >>> HUME family, no. I'm getting a GUILTY COMPLEX. >>> Anyone out there with a HUME, please send me a nice Christmas surprise, >>> many >>> thanks >>> John Hume in Nottingham >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Marilyn Otterson" <rosiedoggie@myfairpoint.net> >>> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 11:55 PM >>> Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple >>> >>> >>>> Hello, folks, >>>> >>>> I am writing this note that may seem a little heretical to many fans of >>>> Y-DNA searches, but I just wanted to show another side where people >>>> might >>>> not want to spend the money for deep searches unless the information >>>> they >>>> seek is not to learn if there are others out there with the same DNA, >>>> but >>>> other information that may gives hints to their ancestry. I was >>>> somewhat >>>> interested a few years ago but to start only got tested (well, had my >>>> dad's >>>> brother's son got his DNA tested for me) for 25 markers. >>>> >>>> I had decided that if I found somebody with a 25 marker match that >>> perhaps >>>> each of us might want to go further to 37 or even 67 markers if we were >>>> both >>>> interested. >>>> >>>> Another participant on this list or another convinced her cousin to get >>>> tested for 25 markers, and lo! he had the same surname as mine and his >>>> ancestors came from the same very tiny townland in Co. Tyrone as >>>> mine....but >>>> he was not interested at all in swapping information. I figure that >>> with >>>> the same markers and the same very small location we are probably >>>> connected >>>> not too many generations in the past, but since that person wasn't >>>> interested in going further, it was all kind of for naught. I have also >>>> had >>>> a couple of other people, but with different surnames, who have the >>>> same >>>> 25 >>>> markers, but neither of them was interested in swapping information, >>>> either. >>>> I feel that if people can get such a close match it's kind of silly not >>> to >>>> go further and to exchange information if not going for more markers. >>> It >>>> was a real disappointment to learn I may have a "cousin" in Tyrone, but >>>> can't exchange family information since he is not interested in >>>> participating. >>>> >>>> I think we all, if we have DNA tested, hope we might find another with >>> the >>>> shared ancestors, but when people are tested with no desire to discuss >>>> possible connections, or to research such, it's just kind of sad and >>>> futile, >>>> at least it is to me. >>>> >>>> Marilyn (Armstrong)(And Field, McCoy, Milligan and more) >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Dannye Powell" <dannye700@aol.com> >>>> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 8:53 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple >>>> >>>> >>>>> What is the ancestr.s name? >>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone >>>>> >>>>> Les Tate <lrtate@live.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I'm new to this group, however I wanted to comment that understanding >>>>>>Y-DNA results is not simple by any means. >>>>>> >>>>>>You may learn your general male line haplogroup by getting just the 12 >>>>>>marker Y-DNA test (for women you'd have to submit your father or >>>>>>brother's >>>>>>sample), however there are more extensive tests that can better define >>>>>>the >>>>>>haplogroup. For instance, I've gone from 12-markers to 37 markers to >>>>>>67 >>>>>>markers to 111-markers, plus a deep clade (SNP) test. My haplogroup >>>>>>has >>>>>>gone from R1b to R1b1a2a1a1b4 and it matches the Scottish Modal with >>>>>>little variation. However it doesn't end there. Since my SNP marker >>>>>>L21 >>>>>>was positive and all the others tested thus far have been negative, >>>>>>that >>>>>>led me to the R-L21+ Y-DNA Project, which has several hundred members >>> who >>>>>>are all at least R1b1 and positive for L21, with many having fairly >>>>>>well >>>>>>defined haplogroups as well as being positive for other SNPs. However >>> all >>>>>>are searching for even more defining information to indicate where our >>>>>>distant ancestors came from. While I fall into the Scottish Cluster >>>>>>there, >>>>>>many other clusters are not Scottish. Plus! >>>>> ,! >>>>>> there are subgroups of the Scottish Cluster that are still being >>>>>> defined >>>>>> as more advanced SNP tests become available. >>>>>> >>>>>>Matches to your Y-DNA results may help define your Y-DNA ancestor's >>>>>>origin >>>>>>and if you're very fortunate, you may find someone with the same or a >>>>>>similar surname who can help extend your genealogy research and >>>>>>possibly >>>>>>better define your common ancestor's origin. Early in my Y-DNA tests >>> and >>>>>>at a roadblock in my paternal genealogy research, I was fortunate to >>>>>>locate someone with the same surname who I matched perfectly at 12, >>>>>>then >>>>>>37, then 67 markers, although the most recent extension to 111 >>>>>>markers >>>>>>shows some slight variation on a couple of the more mutatable markers. >>>>>>However by working together over about two years, we found our common >>>>>>ancestor 7 generations back and I now have distant cousins who are >>>>>>descendants of a different son of that ancestor. >>>>>> >>>>>>We were fortunate to find that our genealogical research indicated >>>>>>Scottish or Scots-Irish ancestry, with our common male ancestor being >>>>>>born >>>>>>somewhere in Ulster (North Ireland) in 1731, migrating to what was to >>>>>>become the U.S. by 1755, moving into what were largely Scots-Irish >>>>>>areas >>>>>>in VA, NC, and TN by the time of the American Revolution. We also >>>>>>found >>> >>>>>>he >>>>>>was a neighbor and hunting/exploring companion of Daniel Boone in >>>>>>Rowan >>>>>>County NC and was one of the Overmountain Men in the Battle of Kings >>>>>>Mountain in 1780. >>>>>> >>>>>>What I want to indicate is that your DNA testing should not be just >>>>>>stand-alone information, but serve to assist and augment your >>>>>>genealogy >>>>>>research. >>>>>> >>>>>>Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) tests can likewise provide general origins >>>>>>of >>>>>>your maternal line, however it is difficult to determine exact >>>>>>origins. >>> >>>>>>It >>>>>>is also difficult to augment with your genealogy research since wives' >>>>>>maiden names were often not recorded, especially as you go further >>>>>>back >>> >>>>>>in >>>>>>time. While my mtDNA results shows Native American ancestry, which is >>>>>>backed up by some oral family history, exact names and origins are not >>>>>>available before 1850 for my maternal line. Matches to my mtDNA >>>>>>results >>>>>>are few and only indicate a common Native American female ancestor >>>>>>somewhere in the eastern area of what is now the U.S. >>>>>> >>>>>>I don't want to discourage you or anyone else from getting DNA tests >>>>>>done, >>>>>>since the results can be very helpful. However it won't answer all the >>>>>>questions you may have because more questions arise with each new >>>>>>finding. >>>>>> >>>>>>Les Tate >>>>>>========== >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On Nov 28, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Heather Dau wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Linda, please recommend a book/site that spells out how to read >>>>>>> DNA >>>>>>> results (especially Y-DNA); something understandable, please. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Heather >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>> without >>>>>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>------------------------------- >>>>>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>>>>>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> quotes in the subject >>> and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi John, actually I'm really behind at this point -- starting with thank yous to the people who contacted me regarding my father's death, then my cat's accident, the lookups are not quite done either. You're lucky yours can read and write. They remind me of my Culmers (alas, a Kent line, not Scotch Irish, though some did go to Ireland, I believe). As a man with the surname once told me -- Culmer men never do manual labor. He went into a long list of things they'll do, but they never dirty their hands. It was funny and probably true excepting that my line had carpenters and cabinet makers. The senior line in Kent were ship builders. Supposedly landed at Thanet and spent a few lifetimes doing illuminated manuscripts for the monks. It seems the DNA of the borders is really more like vegetable soups (many things) and a bowl of spaghetti. Maybe you'll find a match with some of the main lines of the Humes, eventually. I think we have commercials on TV and you do not, which is why our shows don't run in the same time slot as yours. Some of those who do you think you are shows are very interesting. In other cases we learn how a many different ways a lady with marginal acting ability can say "Oh wow!" And also we learn, in America at least, about the deficiencies in the educational system, like the one whereby a country music personality oh wowed about how the New Englanders invented religious freedom. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "john.hume" <john.hume@ntlworld.com> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 7:38:25 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple Dear Linda, Once again I have to congratulate on such a fine reply. How on earth do you find the time to answer nearly all the messages to this site. The information you have given me goes along with the discoveries already made by myself. The biggest problem I have discovered before 1700 is the writing which was used in the parish records of the north-east. The f's and s's are the same, the script is so bunched up as if there was a shortage of paper, which I think might be the truth. My earliest ancestor was a 'butcher', which I believe is the second eldest Guild to be founded, sometime around 1200AD. There rules at that time make very interesting reading, my conclusion, having worked in the retail trade for 40 years is that the only thing that has changed is refrigeration. But to answer your question about occupations, it seems that every branch of my particular line of HUME has produced a schoolmaster, mistress, teacher, and any other form of non physical work. Even today, not one of the current family and extended family have worked as a manual labourer, factory worker, miner or maker of things. All rather strange for three centuries of the same family. It also means that my ancestors could read and write to some degree. Looking at marriage certificates it gives me some pleasure when I notice that my family have been able to write their names in the records, although most of the 'ladies' have signed with the proverbial X. Started to watch the series of Who Do You Think You Are, USA. Any idea why they are only 35 minutes long over here, ours are an hour. Once again, many thanks for your informative reply, Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year to all. John Hume In a windy and cold Nottingham UK ----- Original Message ----- From: <lmerle@comcast.net> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple > Hi John, > > You don't indicate what occupations your family had in the early 1700s in > Durham, but if they were not well-off, most likely it'll be difficult to > trace them without the DNA. My paternal line left Durham about 1881, so > I'm familiar with the place. Lots of border clan folk moved south or east > to get jobs in the burgeoning industrial age. Sometimes they were slowly > migrating from Northumberland. I've been able to trace a few of mine down > through Northumberland, but `it is difficult. Even now I have met people > in the area who hate the Scots and haven't forgiven them for raids and > wars of 400 years or more distant. So having a Scots surname didn't > increase your popularity. Besides these people being of humble birth, they > had learned to survive by keeping a low profile. It's possible many were > not members of parishes. > > It used to be that one was settled into a parish, where one had to go to > church, at least in England, or pay fines, and where one eventually had > the right to claim services if destitute. There were complicated rules > governing this such as a year's residency. Hence many farmers, coal mines, > and factories, only signed workers on for a length of time shorter than a > year so that the parish didn't 'gain' them as legal residents. If your > husband died in a farm or mine accident, then you and the children had to > hoof it back to wherever it was you were legally from. Or starve or die on > the way. Whatever. These laws created a whole class of itinerant poor who > had no rights to services. Thus it's hard to find records of them. One way > can be baptisms of children. We've been hampered because many northeast > parishes were not indexed in IGI. More are now, but there is also a > website that is indexing them. > > Another factor can be the values of the people themselves. Some of them > simply did not cooperate with authorities. Mine did not register their > children's births long after it was required that they do so. We have > never found the civil death or burial of my ancestor's first wife. He > claims he was a widow when marrying the second. Did he roll her body into > a gully? They did register the birth of their daughter and he was > re-married in the same parish by banns. So people thought he was a > widower. These people can be a challenge for those who believe genealogy > is a simple exercise of ordering records because sometimes legally > required documents do not exist or the information is inconsistent. > > With a name like Hume, they originated in Scotland at some point. The > records for the Scots border counties are terrible. Folks were even more > suspicious of central authorities, as we move from the 18th century back, > and you also have a lot of records destruction. Back to England -- a > number of key medieval English taxes were imposed to pay for costs > incurred in fighting off the Scots and rebuilding the area -- so our area > was not included at all. > > If they seemed to be settled on estates, such as farms, you might check > for estate records. The problem though usually is the names are so common > how do you tell them apart? I have a John Armstrong, a blacksmith in a > village in Northumberland about that time. Next generation headed south to > Durham. He wasn't raised in the parish. No Armstrongs in the parish > records. Where'd he come from? It sure isn't hard to find Johnny > Armstrongs in Northumberland. We're before the time when marriage records > identified his father -- probably another Johnny A. anyway <grin>. > Hundreds of Armstrongs moved south after King James started hanging them > from trees at Newcastle. > > The further back I get on these lines -- and as I said ALL my father's > paternal ancestors are from the area -- the more I accumulate every Scots > and English border clan surname. > > The mobile ex-parishal labor force of the day included many Irish. > Sometimes they returned each year to the same areas to harvest crops, > eventually, perhaps, remaining. You can find glimpses of them in parish > records, where they sometimes occur as 'dead Irishman, buried on <date>' > or 'baptized Irishwoman's child, <date>'. One time I found a parish where > the vicar swept down on the poor house and baptized all the Irish children > therein. Of course he didn't bother to name them. > > One good source for understanding the lives of the poor in the 17th > century is Christopher Hill, a contemporary socialist historian. He has > written a series of fascinating works on the common people. One is > "Liberty Against the Law" which argues that the law in the 17th century > was used as an instrument of oppression. He cites enclosures, loss of > traditional rights, 'draconian' punishments for minor offenses, that > created a landless class of wage laborers. He estimates that only 20 > percent of the population could have lived comfortably within the law and > documents dissenters. Some of these lived in ad hoc villages in 'common' > land -- swamps and forests. Among them were itinerating Baptist preachers, > Quakers, and Methodists, smugglers, pirates, highwaymen, poachers and of > course 'gypsies', both the ones clearly not of English origins and various > what we now call Travelers -- who were British in origin. > > Rich men were sold the right to round up all the homeless in London and > ship them off as slaves to Virginia and the West Indies in the sixteenth > and seventeenth centuries. > > P 202 documents the history of opposition to church marriages, which he > says stems from the Lollards. In our area it might go back a lot further > to common marriage practices such as handfasting that were pre Christian > and never entirely fell out of practice. > > The history is interesting, though the trail of the ancestors is probably > hopeless <grin>! My paternal line itself I can't get back earlier than the > late 1700s. They were in the parish of Stanhope, which is the highest > (most mountainous) parish in England. Its parish records are terrible. No > burial records to speak of either. Tombstones? Ha! I suspect they > practiced Tibetan air burial up there in the mountains. Early histories > indicate that the Church of England hardly existed. Some villages were > Presbyterian though undoubtedly some were Catholic. Presbyterians serviced > from Scotland? No. Minister came from Lancaster, other side of the > mountain in England, and another place ful of English recusants > (Catholics). I speak of Presbyterian villages (es. Iresdale) in the late > 1700s, early 1800s. As the 1800s progressed the church made an effort to > control the parish of Stanhope but it was already 'burned over' by the > Methodists by then. Wesley often preached to the lead miners in ! > the area. The rich are potted in the parish church. Everyone else? If they > were buried there it was without any record kept despite laws requiring > that they were. What we do have are records of contracts between companies > and lead miners. The lead miners worked tiny mines in family groups. > They'd been working lead as early as the Roman times. > > This is our village: > http://www.englandsnortheast.co.uk/Weardale.html > https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Weardale > > Much history: > http://www.weardaleway.wanadoo.co.uk/history2.html > "In December 1569, the valley was the setting for a border fray in which a > large group of mosstroopers (cattle raiders), from Tynedale, made a raid > to plunder the Wear valley for its livestock while many of the Weardale > men were away plotting against the Queen in the famous `Rising of the > North'. Resistance to the raid was expected to be low, but there were > still a number of Weardale men left to defend their dale. The mosstroopers > were pursued north into the Rookhope valley, as they made off with the > cattle and sheep. When the Weardale men eventually caught up a fight > ensued in which four of the Tynedalers lost their lives." > > The Tynedalers were of course English too but such mattered little on the > borders. Needless to say, my ancestors migrated down the Wear in the early > 1800s, finally settling in the Hetton le Hole. We didn't trust the people > in those other valleys, apparently. > > History on the "Rising of the North" is here: > https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Rising_of_the_North > http://www.englandsnortheast.co.uk/Tudor.html > > As for peasant stock -- it is the best! Not only because it is hardy and > full of genes that have yet to express themselves, but they're actually > natives, unlike the 'upper classes' of England and Scotland who are likely > to be Normans. While the Normans conquered England, they were invited to > Scotland by the king to create a feudal state from a land full of bands of > tribal, marauding Gaels and Picts who held their land by right of conquest > and so had no loyalty to a king perched on a big rock off the Firth of > Forth. Similar to the English valleys of Durham in the late 16th century > <grin>. > > I don't know if it is true or not, but one history of my CULMER line in > Kent has one going north with Henry VII, I think it was, to kick ass in > Scotland. He was married off to a Scots heiress and adopted as his surname > the name of her estate: Lindsay. Now the descendants wear kilts and think > they descend on the male line from picts and gaels. Eh, maybe not. The > Culmers supposedly were Swedish nobles who came to Kent with the Vikings. > > Linda Merle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john.hume" <john.hume@ntlworld.com> > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 4:40:02 AM > Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple > > Hi Doralyn. > Many thanks for your reply. > Unfortunately I don't think I'm related to any HUME nobility. I joined the > HUME Clan about 5 years ago because of my general interest in anything > HUME. > My own family is easy top trace back to Durham in 1721, before then, a > mystery. My DNA 67 marker ties in with a HUMES in USA, he traces his HUMES > back to Ireland around 1760, but nothing in either of the family trees. > Out > of the 30 HUME members of the Hume Clan, having had their DNA taken, I and > Larry (USA) do not match with any other HUME. Most of the others, about 20 > of them are related to Sir Alec Douglas Hume and his ancestors, including > the Marchmont and Polwarth Humes, all of whom were knighted. So I must > have > been from peasant stock. Only certain fact is that I originated from the > Vikings, proven by DNA and a little 'disease' called Dupuytren's Disease, > something which attacks mainly the ring finger of either hand. The tendons > tighten up causing the finger(s) to be pulled inwards, unable to > straighten > them. Had my right hand operated on last year, my left one is on the way. > It > has to be at around 45 degrees before they operate, mind is only 10 > degrees > at the moment, so I've a few more years yet. (Jokingly) I put it all down > to > the fact that we had to row those Vikings ships all the way from > Estonia/Norway etc to Ireland. No Sat Navs in those days. > LOL > anyway, Thanks for your interest > regards > > John Hume > wet, windy, cold Nottingham > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ShortGD@aol.com> > To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 6:49 PM > Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple > > >> Hi John Hume, >> >> Interesting that you stated your line goes back to Ireland/Scotland from >> around 1600. I have very little on the Hume name but from my research on >> the Conway line I have that George Hume married Mary Unknown and lived in >> the >> noted Tully Castle at the time of the Rebellion. I have that his father >> was Sir John Hume from Scotland and he had a younger brother named >> Patrick. >> I thought he may have married Mary Conway; he negotiated for her hand but >> somehow the plans fell through before her father's death. Would this be >> your line? >> >> Doralyn Short >> >> >> In a message dated 12/6/2011 12:35:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, >> john.hume@ntlworld.com writes: >> >> >> Hi everyone, >> Like Marilyn I to have had by DNA done, and have about 10 37 and three 67 >> matches. Of those I have only one 67 marker person who is interested in >> my >> line. We think we go back to Ireland/Scotland from around 1600. Finding >> that >> information is very difficult at the moment. But why do people bother >> having >> their DNA taken at great expense and then not doing anything with the >> results. I also joined Genes reunites, that is even worst. I've actually >> connected with countless people, but do they want anything to do with the >> HUME family, no. I'm getting a GUILTY COMPLEX. >> Anyone out there with a HUME, please send me a nice Christmas surprise, >> many >> thanks >> John Hume in Nottingham >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marilyn Otterson" <rosiedoggie@myfairpoint.net> >> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 11:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple >> >> >>> Hello, folks, >>> >>> I am writing this note that may seem a little heretical to many fans of >>> Y-DNA searches, but I just wanted to show another side where people >>> might >>> not want to spend the money for deep searches unless the information >>> they >>> seek is not to learn if there are others out there with the same DNA, >>> but >>> other information that may gives hints to their ancestry. I was >>> somewhat >>> interested a few years ago but to start only got tested (well, had my >>> dad's >>> brother's son got his DNA tested for me) for 25 markers. >>> >>> I had decided that if I found somebody with a 25 marker match that >> perhaps >>> each of us might want to go further to 37 or even 67 markers if we were >>> both >>> interested. >>> >>> Another participant on this list or another convinced her cousin to get >>> tested for 25 markers, and lo! he had the same surname as mine and his >>> ancestors came from the same very tiny townland in Co. Tyrone as >>> mine....but >>> he was not interested at all in swapping information. I figure that >> with >>> the same markers and the same very small location we are probably >>> connected >>> not too many generations in the past, but since that person wasn't >>> interested in going further, it was all kind of for naught. I have also >>> had >>> a couple of other people, but with different surnames, who have the same >>> 25 >>> markers, but neither of them was interested in swapping information, >>> either. >>> I feel that if people can get such a close match it's kind of silly not >> to >>> go further and to exchange information if not going for more markers. >> It >>> was a real disappointment to learn I may have a "cousin" in Tyrone, but >>> can't exchange family information since he is not interested in >>> participating. >>> >>> I think we all, if we have DNA tested, hope we might find another with >> the >>> shared ancestors, but when people are tested with no desire to discuss >>> possible connections, or to research such, it's just kind of sad and >>> futile, >>> at least it is to me. >>> >>> Marilyn (Armstrong)(And Field, McCoy, Milligan and more) >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dannye Powell" <dannye700@aol.com> >>> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 8:53 AM >>> Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple >>> >>> >>>> What is the ancestr.s name? >>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone >>>> >>>> Les Tate <lrtate@live.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>I'm new to this group, however I wanted to comment that understanding >>>>>Y-DNA results is not simple by any means. >>>>> >>>>>You may learn your general male line haplogroup by getting just the 12 >>>>>marker Y-DNA test (for women you'd have to submit your father or >>>>>brother's >>>>>sample), however there are more extensive tests that can better define >>>>>the >>>>>haplogroup. For instance, I've gone from 12-markers to 37 markers to 67 >>>>>markers to 111-markers, plus a deep clade (SNP) test. My haplogroup has >>>>>gone from R1b to R1b1a2a1a1b4 and it matches the Scottish Modal with >>>>>little variation. However it doesn't end there. Since my SNP marker >>>>>L21 >>>>>was positive and all the others tested thus far have been negative, >>>>>that >>>>>led me to the R-L21+ Y-DNA Project, which has several hundred members >> who >>>>>are all at least R1b1 and positive for L21, with many having fairly >>>>>well >>>>>defined haplogroups as well as being positive for other SNPs. However >> all >>>>>are searching for even more defining information to indicate where our >>>>>distant ancestors came from. While I fall into the Scottish Cluster >>>>>there, >>>>>many other clusters are not Scottish. Plus! >>>> ,! >>>>> there are subgroups of the Scottish Cluster that are still being >>>>> defined >>>>> as more advanced SNP tests become available. >>>>> >>>>>Matches to your Y-DNA results may help define your Y-DNA ancestor's >>>>>origin >>>>>and if you're very fortunate, you may find someone with the same or a >>>>>similar surname who can help extend your genealogy research and >>>>>possibly >>>>>better define your common ancestor's origin. Early in my Y-DNA tests >> and >>>>>at a roadblock in my paternal genealogy research, I was fortunate to >>>>>locate someone with the same surname who I matched perfectly at 12, >>>>>then >>>>>37, then 67 markers, although the most recent extension to 111 >>>>>markers >>>>>shows some slight variation on a couple of the more mutatable markers. >>>>>However by working together over about two years, we found our common >>>>>ancestor 7 generations back and I now have distant cousins who are >>>>>descendants of a different son of that ancestor. >>>>> >>>>>We were fortunate to find that our genealogical research indicated >>>>>Scottish or Scots-Irish ancestry, with our common male ancestor being >>>>>born >>>>>somewhere in Ulster (North Ireland) in 1731, migrating to what was to >>>>>become the U.S. by 1755, moving into what were largely Scots-Irish >>>>>areas >>>>>in VA, NC, and TN by the time of the American Revolution. We also found >> >>>>>he >>>>>was a neighbor and hunting/exploring companion of Daniel Boone in Rowan >>>>>County NC and was one of the Overmountain Men in the Battle of Kings >>>>>Mountain in 1780. >>>>> >>>>>What I want to indicate is that your DNA testing should not be just >>>>>stand-alone information, but serve to assist and augment your >>>>>genealogy >>>>>research. >>>>> >>>>>Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) tests can likewise provide general origins of >>>>>your maternal line, however it is difficult to determine exact origins. >> >>>>>It >>>>>is also difficult to augment with your genealogy research since wives' >>>>>maiden names were often not recorded, especially as you go further back >> >>>>>in >>>>>time. While my mtDNA results shows Native American ancestry, which is >>>>>backed up by some oral family history, exact names and origins are not >>>>>available before 1850 for my maternal line. Matches to my mtDNA results >>>>>are few and only indicate a common Native American female ancestor >>>>>somewhere in the eastern area of what is now the U.S. >>>>> >>>>>I don't want to discourage you or anyone else from getting DNA tests >>>>>done, >>>>>since the results can be very helpful. However it won't answer all the >>>>>questions you may have because more questions arise with each new >>>>>finding. >>>>> >>>>>Les Tate >>>>>========== >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Nov 28, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Heather Dau wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Linda, please recommend a book/site that spells out how to read >>>>>> DNA >>>>>> results (especially Y-DNA); something understandable, please. >>>>>> >>>>>> Heather >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>> without >>>>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>------------------------------- >>>>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >>>>>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi folks, This article was posted on another list. http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/heritage/historic-sites/secret_santa_tracing_a_genetic_link_to_lapland_is_one_of_the_many_gifts_in_the_search_for_ancestors_1_2001262 Linda Merle

On 12/12/2011 1:27 PM, john.hume wrote: Hi John, you maybe interested to know that there are Tweedales living in the Province of New Brunswick Canada, One of whom I knew some years ago was a Judge at Burton New Brunswick Cheers Bill On.Can. > Thank you Sara, glad I made someone smile today. > > I understand what you are saying about the Irish accent it really is > difficult to understand. But for a real challenge you want to read the > Yorkshire Bible. Now that is an education. But on a serious note, accents > must have played a part in peoples names being entered on census sheets > incorrectly. One of my cousins,has the surname TWEEDDALE, couldn't > understand why he couldn't find his grandfather in the 1881 census. It was > entered as TWIDALE, understandable of course > John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "S. B. Mason"<sbmasonaz@cox.net> > To:<scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 5:54 PM > Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple > > >> John, >> >> I had to laugh at your difficulty understanding Americans in films. My >> husband and I long ago resorted to using closed captions on British >> programs on US TV. My worst experience with communicating with people >> speaking a common language (English) was on a trip to Ireland and >> Northern Ireland with my hard-of-hearing brother. Since this was my >> third visit I was fairly proficient in understanding what was being >> said to me but I couldn't honestly say I understood every word but I'd >> usually understand the intent of what was being said. My brother, even >> when he could hear what was said, couldn't decipher the accent. So >> he'd turn to me and say, "WHAT DID THEY SAY?", and expect me to repeat >> it verbatim which, of course, I often couldn't do. Talk about >> embarrassing! >> >> Sara >> >> On Dec 12, 2011, at 9:39 AM, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: >> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: DNA Made Simple (john.hume) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:39:05 -0000 >>> From: "john.hume"<john.hume@ntlworld.com> >>> Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple >>> To:<scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> >>> Message-ID:<8ABED21AA179428687D830F272431AE5@GRUMPYPC> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>> reply-type=original >>> >>> Hi Linda, >>> >>> Sorry I didn't send my condolences over your father's death, I must >>> have >>> missed that message. I lost my own father 3 years this Christmas >>> Eve, he was >>> 92 and as he served 12 years in the army and was in the Burmese jungle >>> fighting the Japanese, I suppose we are lucky to have had him that >>> long. >>> As for cats, what can I say, our six month old moggie, jumped off >>> the hedge, >>> cracked her jaw straight in halve as she landed on a brick edge. >>> Result over >>> ?1,000 in vets fees. She was too young and too nice to be put down, >>> now I've >>> taken out pet insurance. >>> Going back to WDYTYA, our programme is 1 hour long, and as on the >>> BBC there >>> are no commercial adverts. The USA ones are shown on the BBC >>> channels and no >>> adverts either but still only 30 minutes long, so I don't think the >>> people >>> over there are getting their money's worth. Do you have the voice of >>> Mark >>> Strong as the narrator. ?. Last week's 'celebrity' was an American >>> comedienne, her family had originated from County Kildare in >>> Ireland, a >>> great shame they only spent about 5 minutes in that country before >>> she and >>> her brother retired to the pub. I certainly agree with the words OMG >>> and >>> WOW, my problem of late is trying to decipher what some Americans are >>> actually saying.Films in particular are becoming very difficult to >>> understand, and there was silly me thinking that we all spoke English. >>> >>> I've had some interesting e-mails from over your way regarding the >>> family >>> of Conway and Hume in and around the 1650's. So it's always nice to >>> keep >>> plodding away, hoping eventually something comes up. >>> 2013 is a big year, 500 years since the Battle of Flodden, quite an >>> event >>> for the HUME family. I hope that you or someone, has this event in >>> mind >>> ready to publish details when they become available >>> >>> Thanks for your time >>> regards >>> John Hume >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This problem isn't limited just to English speakers from other countries! My husband and I traveled the U.S.in a motor home for four years after we retired. When we were in Bar Harbor, Maine and needed to refill our propane tanks (every state has a different law about storing and selling this product) we went into a gas station to enquire where it was sold. After the attendant explained where we could find it, we turned to one another almost simultaneously and asked "What did she say?" She laughed and wrote down the address for us! We had almost equal difficulty understanding many people in the deep south. That was in the mid-1980s; I have noticed during recent trips to Louisiana and Mississippi that those heavy southern accents are no longer so prevalent except among the elderly. I attribute the change largely to television which, for so many years, has exposed nearly all U.S. children, almost from birth, to a standard, unaccented (at least to the American ear) pronunciation. I haven't been back to New England however, so don't know if that distinctive regional accent still prevails. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of S. B. Mason Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 9:54 AM To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple John, I had to laugh at your difficulty understanding Americans in films. My husband and I long ago resorted to using closed captions on British programs on US TV. My worst experience with communicating with people speaking a common language (English) was on a trip to Ireland and Northern Ireland with my hard-of-hearing brother. Since this was my third visit I was fairly proficient in understanding what was being said to me but I couldn't honestly say I understood every word but I'd usually understand the intent of what was being said. My brother, even when he could hear what was said, couldn't decipher the accent. So he'd turn to me and say, "WHAT DID THEY SAY?", and expect me to repeat it verbatim which, of course, I often couldn't do. Talk about embarrassing! Sara On Dec 12, 2011, at 9:39 AM, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: DNA Made Simple (john.hume) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:39:05 -0000 > From: "john.hume" <john.hume@ntlworld.com> > Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple > To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <8ABED21AA179428687D830F272431AE5@GRUMPYPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Linda, > > Sorry I didn't send my condolences over your father's death, I must > have missed that message. I lost my own father 3 years this Christmas > Eve, he was > 92 and as he served 12 years in the army and was in the Burmese jungle > fighting the Japanese, I suppose we are lucky to have had him that > long. > As for cats, what can I say, our six month old moggie, jumped off the > hedge, cracked her jaw straight in halve as she landed on a brick > edge. > Result over > ?1,000 in vets fees. She was too young and too nice to be put down, > now I've taken out pet insurance. > Going back to WDYTYA, our programme is 1 hour long, and as on the BBC > there are no commercial adverts. The USA ones are shown on the BBC > channels and no adverts either but still only 30 minutes long, so I > don't think the people over there are getting their money's worth. Do > you have the voice of Mark Strong as the narrator. ?. Last week's > 'celebrity' was an American comedienne, her family had originated from > County Kildare in Ireland, a great shame they only spent about 5 > minutes in that country before she and her brother retired to the pub. > I certainly agree with the words OMG and WOW, my problem of late is > trying to decipher what some Americans are actually saying.Films in > particular are becoming very difficult to understand, and there was > silly me thinking that we all spoke English. > > I've had some interesting e-mails from over your way regarding the > family of Conway and Hume in and around the 1650's. So it's always > nice to keep plodding away, hoping eventually something comes up. > 2013 is a big year, 500 years since the Battle of Flodden, quite an > event for the HUME family. I hope that you or someone, has this event > in mind ready to publish details when they become available > > Thanks for your time > regards > John Hume ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Probably the one parish! County lines/boundaries have NOTHING to do with Parish lines/boundaries... Poor Law Unions have nothing to do with either!! Each have their own areas and bear no relevancy to each other regarding maps! Basically, Feegavala is in the section of Inniskeen Parish that is in Co Monagahan, and, Kingscourt is in the section of Enniskeen Parish, that is in Co Cavan and it wouldn't surprise me if you found some in Inniskeen Parish , that is in Co Louth.... I said before about one of mine that was Registrar of BDM's in Monaghan, kids registered in Co Cavan because that was the office for the area in Monaghan where they lived..... If you go to http://www.jstor.org/stable/27699544 you will see how some people attended church in 1821! If you look at the map, to the West you will see Killydonnelly! Now people living there were in one parish....they travelled right through another (Kilmore) Parish to go to church in Monaghan town!! You'll see people living in Mullyera, right beside a church in Tydavnet Parish... they went to Monaghan! This is in 1821.. my lot with 6 kids travelled 8 miles to church yet they lived beside one, passed others en-route!!!! On 12/12/2011 08:00, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Another question. Feegavala is in Inniskeen Parish , Monagahan and Kingscourt is in Enniskeen Parish, Cavan. Are Inniskeen& Enniskeen the same Parish although in different counties? > > Murray, Bell

John, I had to laugh at your difficulty understanding Americans in films. My husband and I long ago resorted to using closed captions on British programs on US TV. My worst experience with communicating with people speaking a common language (English) was on a trip to Ireland and Northern Ireland with my hard-of-hearing brother. Since this was my third visit I was fairly proficient in understanding what was being said to me but I couldn't honestly say I understood every word but I'd usually understand the intent of what was being said. My brother, even when he could hear what was said, couldn't decipher the accent. So he'd turn to me and say, "WHAT DID THEY SAY?", and expect me to repeat it verbatim which, of course, I often couldn't do. Talk about embarrassing! Sara On Dec 12, 2011, at 9:39 AM, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: DNA Made Simple (john.hume) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:39:05 -0000 > From: "john.hume" <john.hume@ntlworld.com> > Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple > To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <8ABED21AA179428687D830F272431AE5@GRUMPYPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Linda, > > Sorry I didn't send my condolences over your father's death, I must > have > missed that message. I lost my own father 3 years this Christmas > Eve, he was > 92 and as he served 12 years in the army and was in the Burmese jungle > fighting the Japanese, I suppose we are lucky to have had him that > long. > As for cats, what can I say, our six month old moggie, jumped off > the hedge, > cracked her jaw straight in halve as she landed on a brick edge. > Result over > ?1,000 in vets fees. She was too young and too nice to be put down, > now I've > taken out pet insurance. > Going back to WDYTYA, our programme is 1 hour long, and as on the > BBC there > are no commercial adverts. The USA ones are shown on the BBC > channels and no > adverts either but still only 30 minutes long, so I don't think the > people > over there are getting their money's worth. Do you have the voice of > Mark > Strong as the narrator. ?. Last week's 'celebrity' was an American > comedienne, her family had originated from County Kildare in > Ireland, a > great shame they only spent about 5 minutes in that country before > she and > her brother retired to the pub. I certainly agree with the words OMG > and > WOW, my problem of late is trying to decipher what some Americans are > actually saying.Films in particular are becoming very difficult to > understand, and there was silly me thinking that we all spoke English. > > I've had some interesting e-mails from over your way regarding the > family > of Conway and Hume in and around the 1650's. So it's always nice to > keep > plodding away, hoping eventually something comes up. > 2013 is a big year, 500 years since the Battle of Flodden, quite an > event > for the HUME family. I hope that you or someone, has this event in > mind > ready to publish details when they become available > > Thanks for your time > regards > John Hume

Dear Lunney family member, Your intelligent insight and calm concern for others bespeaks a heritage that we hope thrives and grows. Marsha Brown On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:01 AM, Lunney Family <jglunney@eircom.net> wrote: > I've had a couple of emails about this message which have made me > think that in trying to be amusing, I didn't manage to strike the > notes I meant to. I wanted to say to descendants that if they don't > always get a reply to an initial contact, there might be several > reasons why, and to point out that things might look different from > this side of the Atlantic > > 1. Sometimes the recipient of your letter might mean to reply, but > things just make it difficult, and once you don't reply to a message > for a few weeks then it gets embarrassing to pick it up again > > 2. After years of research, you might well feel that you have > established kinship with the folk in Ireland, that you already know > them, but your letter comes out of the blue to them; they don't know > anything at all about you, and if it is hard for you to imagine their > lives in co. Antrim, so different from yours in Arizona, it is > equally hard for them to imagine you. People in Ulster might well > feel reluctant to write a letter which might have to discuss > potentially upsetting topics like illegitimacy, money, land, to > someone they don't know in the slightest > > 3. When all is said and done, most people in Ulster don't know that > much about distant ancestors; most people in rural areas know a lot > about recent connections, say back to their great grandparents and > may know generally who was related to their family within the last 50 > or 60 years, but before that, there is in general very little exact > knowledge. People in the towns, may often know less than people on > farms. And thus they don't want to have to write back and disappoint > someone, who is keen to know about people who left 200 years ago. > they might not want to have to write a letter saying, "no, sorry, I > don't know anything" when they instinctively know how disappointing > that will be for the recipient > > 4. Mention of DNA links might be a bit offputting for many people in > Ireland; almost no-one understands it or wants to get tangled with > it. If they have heard of DNA at all, it would be in connection with > crime investigations and paternity cases. Much better not to mention > DNA in a first approach. > > 5. I failed especially badly to get my message across in the > section where I was talking about the kind of "Oirish-American" lingo > which is a turn-off for many people in Northern Ireland (for obvious > political and historical reasons; and of course I realize that the > group who read and write Scotch-Irish Rootsweb postings wouldn't make > such an egregious mistake as to use such language in writing to > Ulster relatives!), and so I want to make it clearer to you all that > many people in Ulster very often do feel very strongly the connection > with a place and with a lineage. I personally hope that what I have > been doing in genealogy on the internet will help others make that > connection for themselves. This is something which is a vital part of > my heritage, and I realize how lucky I am that I do know who I am and > where I came from. Knowledge of ancestral places is a wonderful > personal strength for me; everyone who wants to, should be able to > find that knowledge of who and where. I would suggest to everyone > that even if you can't make direct contact with distant kin relatives > in Ireland, that it can be almost as satisfying to make contact with > the place itself; to see the same horizon that your ancestors saw. > And also to make contact with descendants of other families from > there, that your ancestor would have known. People interested in > Ulster Scots ancestry should be aware of how inter-connected all the > families in a given area of several townlands would have been; if not > related, everyone in a five mile radius would have been known. It can > be immensely satisfying to make contact with people whose ancestors > were from the same area. > > 6. And finally to say; don't take it personally! there might be > reasons why they didn't reply. If your initial contact doesn't get a > response, wait a while and try again, maybe with a Christmas card, or > a postcard from your hometown. And make sure it too has your return > address; I really have heard of several enthusiastic "American > letters" which didn't have return addresses on the letter itself > > I hope this clarifies what I was saying in my post of a week ago; I > hope no one has been offended. > > Linde L > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I've had a couple of emails about this message which have made me think that in trying to be amusing, I didn't manage to strike the notes I meant to. I wanted to say to descendants that if they don't always get a reply to an initial contact, there might be several reasons why, and to point out that things might look different from this side of the Atlantic 1. Sometimes the recipient of your letter might mean to reply, but things just make it difficult, and once you don't reply to a message for a few weeks then it gets embarrassing to pick it up again 2. After years of research, you might well feel that you have established kinship with the folk in Ireland, that you already know them, but your letter comes out of the blue to them; they don't know anything at all about you, and if it is hard for you to imagine their lives in co. Antrim, so different from yours in Arizona, it is equally hard for them to imagine you. People in Ulster might well feel reluctant to write a letter which might have to discuss potentially upsetting topics like illegitimacy, money, land, to someone they don't know in the slightest 3. When all is said and done, most people in Ulster don't know that much about distant ancestors; most people in rural areas know a lot about recent connections, say back to their great grandparents and may know generally who was related to their family within the last 50 or 60 years, but before that, there is in general very little exact knowledge. People in the towns, may often know less than people on farms. And thus they don't want to have to write back and disappoint someone, who is keen to know about people who left 200 years ago. they might not want to have to write a letter saying, "no, sorry, I don't know anything" when they instinctively know how disappointing that will be for the recipient 4. Mention of DNA links might be a bit offputting for many people in Ireland; almost no-one understands it or wants to get tangled with it. If they have heard of DNA at all, it would be in connection with crime investigations and paternity cases. Much better not to mention DNA in a first approach. 5. I failed especially badly to get my message across in the section where I was talking about the kind of "Oirish-American" lingo which is a turn-off for many people in Northern Ireland (for obvious political and historical reasons; and of course I realize that the group who read and write Scotch-Irish Rootsweb postings wouldn't make such an egregious mistake as to use such language in writing to Ulster relatives!), and so I want to make it clearer to you all that many people in Ulster very often do feel very strongly the connection with a place and with a lineage. I personally hope that what I have been doing in genealogy on the internet will help others make that connection for themselves. This is something which is a vital part of my heritage, and I realize how lucky I am that I do know who I am and where I came from. Knowledge of ancestral places is a wonderful personal strength for me; everyone who wants to, should be able to find that knowledge of who and where. I would suggest to everyone that even if you can't make direct contact with distant kin relatives in Ireland, that it can be almost as satisfying to make contact with the place itself; to see the same horizon that your ancestors saw. And also to make contact with descendants of other families from there, that your ancestor would have known. People interested in Ulster Scots ancestry should be aware of how inter-connected all the families in a given area of several townlands would have been; if not related, everyone in a five mile radius would have been known. It can be immensely satisfying to make contact with people whose ancestors were from the same area. 6. And finally to say; don't take it personally! there might be reasons why they didn't reply. If your initial contact doesn't get a response, wait a while and try again, maybe with a Christmas card, or a postcard from your hometown. And make sure it too has your return address; I really have heard of several enthusiastic "American letters" which didn't have return addresses on the letter itself I hope this clarifies what I was saying in my post of a week ago; I hope no one has been offended. Linde L

Hi,Susan, You wouldn't happen to have a SLOWEY in your NI line, would you?  This is the line that my brother and I have been searching for for over ten years.  Our approaches have been polite, but most of them have been ignored; a couple of replies have been hostile.  We've approached people about other national lines (in Germany, France, England, and Spain) and usually we've at least had polite responses.  NI seems to be an entity in and of itself. Carol ________________________________ From: SUSAN BR <susanbrown7777@sympatico.ca> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] Thoughts on replying to an American/ Canadian/ Australian/ New Zealand/ Argentinian/ South African/ Englih/ Scots/ letter Linde I want to respond to this email with my perspective on some things I've found while visiting NI. Let me begin by thanking you for taking the time at such a busy time of year to explain your original email clearer.  I too didn't completed understand what you were trying to convey so again thank you for this clarification. We are all guilty of opening emails, putting them aside for later, and totally forgetting to respond.  These days we are all too busy it seems but of course we don't do it intentionally at all. As a Canadian who spends a lot of time in the US and having been in Ireland a couple of times I know what you are saying about the Scots-Irish.  I've observed that people over there, and for their own reasons as you suggest, are more reluctant to open up to complete strangers.  We are in their territory and they're extremely protective of their territory.  In Canada and the US we tend to be more open with complete strangers but to a safe level and comfort zone.  My experience with people in NI is that they are very very aware of their neighbours religion which I find very fascinating.  I can honestly say I don't have a clue what religion my neighbours are unless they tell me nor am I really interested in knowing.  And again, it is for obvious reasons over the years to know who you feel safe with and who you don't feel safe with I'm sure.  History definitely dictates who we become and how we feel about things. The researchers I've had the pleasure of meeting are ALL extremely helpful and more than willing to drive you around all over to help you find your ancestors properties But they aren't prepared to go to their door for you.  We Canadians and Americans would do it after traveling so far with no hesitation.  When you do knock on a strangers door they aren't always willing and receptive so people need to be prepared for that and tread lightly.  I've run into this a few times. As for DNA, you've answered a question I've had.  Over the years I've been perplexed at the unwillingness of a male in Co. Antrim who could really answer a lot of questions if we could just get his DNA but he absolutely is unwilling to participate. I've corresponded with the family a number of times, even had them over for tea while staying there but nope, he is not interested.  Maybe with more advertising over there locally it might give more insight to the advantages of doing DNA.  Here in US and Canada I know a lot of people who are thrilled with DNA results and comparing these results on familytreedna.  Having said that, people over there are quite settled in their world and just are not interested or maybe there's a safety factor involved for them too. You mention your personal connection to genealogy.  I too feel exactly the same way.  I've had the pleasure and luck of getting back to 1560 with my McCaw lineage and back even further to Isle of Bute with the expertise of many researchers from Co. Antrim.  It is my goal to give that same gift to as many as I can now and it's in my blood too, I love it.   Over the years doing Loyalist research in Canada, mostly from Co. Antrim I've identified peoples ancestors just by surname association from headstones I've seen over there.  The inter-connection you refer to over there, I see here too.  People travelled and settled with their neighbours which can be found on ships lists, land registrations and cemetery lists over here.   I encourage people to try to get over to Northern Ireland if they can.  There's no feeling in this world like the feeling of stepping on the same ground your gr gr gr grandparents living on.  It is a very unusual feeling and I can't wait to do it again. People might be interested in looking into this event too.  It is well worth the money.   http://nalil.blogspot.com/2009/04/route-back-home-ballymoney-2010.html  Take time to look at the files on this blog too.  They do a great job. Linda Merle keep up the great work here,  Susan    > From: jglunney@eircom.net > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 10:01:58 +0000 > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [S-I] Thoughts on replying to an American/ Canadian/ Australian/ New Zealand/ Argentinian/ South African/ Englih/ Scots/ letter > > I've had a couple of emails about this message which have made me > think that in trying to be amusing, I didn't manage to strike the > notes I meant to. I wanted to say to descendants that if they don't > always get a reply to an initial contact, there might be several > reasons why, and to point out that things might look different from > this side of the Atlantic > > 1. Sometimes the recipient of your letter might mean to reply, but > things just make it difficult, and once you don't reply to a message > for a few weeks then it gets embarrassing to pick it up again > > 2. After years of research, you might well feel that you have > established kinship with the folk in Ireland, that you already know > them, but your letter comes out of the blue to them; they don't know > anything at all about you, and if it is hard for you to imagine their > lives in co. Antrim, so different from yours in Arizona, it is > equally hard for them to imagine you. People in Ulster might well > feel reluctant to write a letter which might have to discuss > potentially upsetting topics like illegitimacy, money, land, to > someone they don't know in the slightest > > 3. When all is said and done, most people in Ulster don't know that > much about distant ancestors; most people in rural areas know a lot > about recent connections, say back to their great grandparents and > may know generally who was related to their family within the last 50 > or 60 years, but before that, there is in general very little exact > knowledge. People in the towns, may often know less than people on > farms. And thus they don't want to have to write back and disappoint > someone, who is keen to know about people who left 200 years ago. > they might not want to have to write a letter saying, "no, sorry, I > don't know anything" when they instinctively know how disappointing > that will be for the recipient > > 4. Mention of DNA links might be a bit offputting for many people in > Ireland; almost no-one understands it or wants to get tangled with > it. If they have heard of DNA at all, it would be in connection with > crime investigations and paternity cases. Much better not to mention > DNA in a first approach. > > 5. I failed especially badly to get my message across in the > section where I was talking about the kind of "Oirish-American" lingo > which is a turn-off for many people in Northern Ireland (for obvious > political and historical reasons; and of course I realize that the > group who read and write Scotch-Irish Rootsweb postings wouldn't make > such an egregious mistake as to use such language in writing to > Ulster relatives!), and so I want to make it clearer to you all that > many people in Ulster very often do feel very strongly the connection > with a place and with a lineage. I personally hope that what I have > been doing in genealogy on the internet will help others make that > connection for themselves. This is something which is a vital part of > my heritage, and I realize how lucky I am that I do know who I am and > where I came from. Knowledge of ancestral places is a wonderful > personal strength for me; everyone who wants to, should be able to > find that knowledge of who and where. I would suggest to everyone > that even if you can't make direct contact with distant kin relatives > in Ireland, that it can be almost as satisfying to make contact with > the place itself; to see the same horizon that your ancestors saw. > And also to make contact with descendants of other families from > there, that your ancestor would have known. People interested in > Ulster Scots ancestry should be aware of how inter-connected all the > families in a given area of several townlands would have been; if not > related, everyone in a five mile radius would have been known. It can > be immensely satisfying to make contact with people whose ancestors > were from the same area. > > 6. And finally to say; don't take it personally! there might be > reasons why they didn't reply. If your initial contact doesn't get a > response, wait a while and try again, maybe with a Christmas card, or > a postcard from your hometown. And make sure it too has your return > address; I really have heard of several enthusiastic "American > letters" which didn't have return addresses on the letter itself > > I hope this clarifies what I was saying in my post of a week ago; I > hope no one has been offended. > > Linde L > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message                         ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Murray you might already have this information but here are sites I use allllll the time. http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/countyatlas/search.htm - land registrations. If you take the information to the land registration office you can look at the original registration and often you will find numbers listing WILLS that are on file. These wills give a lot of information. http://www.geneofun.on.ca/ongenweb/surnames/ - surname search http://ocfa.islandnet.com/ocfa-search.php - Ontario cemetery findings. This site is fun to play with to find surname associations and sometimes OGS (Ontario Genealogical Society) has the transcriptions for sale. http://www.ogs.on.ca/ - if you join then join the county in Ontario you are researching they are extremely helpful. You can post a query on your own too. I find a lot of information forthcoming on this site. I had a recent experience with my cousin while in Ireland who was researching in Monaghan and the family was in two counties right next door to eachother so it made for difficult research until we got there and it totally made sense. Please contact me off list if you want help. Susan > From: murraybel@msn.com > Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 22:15:50 -0500 > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [S-I] Tithe Applotment Books..with Bells on!! > > This got me doing a lot of research and looking at maps etc. What I know is this. My gg grandmother Frances Elliott was born in County Monaghan about 1814. She married jeremiah Bell in the 1830's. There is a jeremiah Bell on the Tithe applotment Books living in the townland of Figevly (now Feegavla) in Inniskeen Parish, Monaghan. Jeremiah and Frances had a son, William born about 1838. The family immigrated to Canada in 1840. In the 1842 Canadian census they are living in Fitzroy Township, carleton County, ontario. They are tenants on a farm owned by David Elliot who came about 1830 from the Kingscourt area of County Cavan, Ireland. I have determined that Frances is definitely not a daughter of David Elliott but Is probably related somehow (maybe a niece). Both the Bell & Elliott families were Wesleyan Methodist. > > Now , it appears that Feegavla & Kingscourt are no more than 15K apart. I think that there is a strong possibility that Jeremiah Bell, Frances Elliott, and David Elliott knew each other through the same church. Since Methodists used the C of I in those days, I am thinking I should try to track down the C of I records both at Kingscourt Cavan and at Inniskeen, Monaghan. Any other suggestions? > > Another question. Feegavala is in Inniskeen Parish , Monagahan and Kingscourt is in Enniskeen Parish, Cavan. Are Inniskeen & Enniskeen the same Parish although in different counties? > > Murray, Bell > > On Nov 23, 2011, at 8:18 PM, D H wrote: > > > Well just off hand...you've Clontibret, Inniskeen and Carrickmacross... > > > > > > Clontibret records only have one Bell and as the bride gets married in her church you might need to look elsewhere for Bells; > > > > 10th Sept1867 William Bell son of George Bell of Toome, married Margaret Leathem dau of Robert Leathem of Avalreagh, witnesses Robert > > > > Leathem + James Sloan Performed by Archdeacon of Clogher Rev John C.Wolfe > > > > > > 10th Sept1891 James Campbell son of Samuel Campbell of Clontibret, married Annie Elliott dau of Samuel + Isabella Elliott of Avalreagh, Clontibret, > > witnesses James Finlay + Minnie Elliott Performed by Rev E.J.Bury (Annie's sister Minnie married on 4th Mar1897 to James Finlay son of John Finlay of > > Avalreagh) she also had sisters Charlotte, Margaret Jane, brother Robert Donaldson Elliott, > > > > > > So you have Bell of Toome, Elliott of Clontibret and Avalreagh.... BUT are they part of your lot?? > > > > St Colman's church in Clontibret would get you Elliotts!! > > > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/monaghan/photos/tombstones/monaghan-st-colmans/target11.html is an Elliott g/stone there > > > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/monaghan/photos/tombstones/monaghan-st-colmans/target2.html will get you the Minister's name/address/phone number > > > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/monaghan/photos/tombstones/markers.htm will get you the index to 100's of g/stone photos that I and a few > > others have put on IGP site for Monaghan > > > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ will get you the counties list where you can search g/stones in other counties. > > > > Plus there is a general'search' button... > > > > > > > > On 24/11/2011 00:10, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > >> From: Murray Bell<murraybel@msn.com> > >> Subject: Re: [S-I] Tithe Applotment Books.. > >> To:scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > >> Message-ID:<BLU0-SMTP135FC2F9DD6AA1803D7D7B6AECE0@phx.gbl> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >> > >> DH > >> > >> Good advice. Checked out some adjoining townlands in Griffiths& 1911 census. Found Bells in both on a adjoining townland-Lower Cordrummans. Can't access Tithe books on line, Will get over to the library next week to check them out. > >> > >> The Bells in Griffiths and the 1911 census were Church of Ireland. Do you where the nearby C of I churches were? > >> > >> thanks, murray > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Linde I want to respond to this email with my perspective on some things I've found while visiting NI. Let me begin by thanking you for taking the time at such a busy time of year to explain your original email clearer. I too didn't completed understand what you were trying to convey so again thank you for this clarification. We are all guilty of opening emails, putting them aside for later, and totally forgetting to respond. These days we are all too busy it seems but of course we don't do it intentionally at all. As a Canadian who spends a lot of time in the US and having been in Ireland a couple of times I know what you are saying about the Scots-Irish. I've observed that people over there, and for their own reasons as you suggest, are more reluctant to open up to complete strangers. We are in their territory and they're extremely protective of their territory. In Canada and the US we tend to be more open with complete strangers but to a safe level and comfort zone. My experience with people in NI is that they are very very aware of their neighbours religion which I find very fascinating. I can honestly say I don't have a clue what religion my neighbours are unless they tell me nor am I really interested in knowing. And again, it is for obvious reasons over the years to know who you feel safe with and who you don't feel safe with I'm sure. History definitely dictates who we become and how we feel about things. The researchers I've had the pleasure of meeting are ALL extremely helpful and more than willing to drive you around all over to help you find your ancestors properties But they aren't prepared to go to their door for you. We Canadians and Americans would do it after traveling so far with no hesitation. When you do knock on a strangers door they aren't always willing and receptive so people need to be prepared for that and tread lightly. I've run into this a few times. As for DNA, you've answered a question I've had. Over the years I've been perplexed at the unwillingness of a male in Co. Antrim who could really answer a lot of questions if we could just get his DNA but he absolutely is unwilling to participate. I've corresponded with the family a number of times, even had them over for tea while staying there but nope, he is not interested. Maybe with more advertising over there locally it might give more insight to the advantages of doing DNA. Here in US and Canada I know a lot of people who are thrilled with DNA results and comparing these results on familytreedna. Having said that, people over there are quite settled in their world and just are not interested or maybe there's a safety factor involved for them too. You mention your personal connection to genealogy. I too feel exactly the same way. I've had the pleasure and luck of getting back to 1560 with my McCaw lineage and back even further to Isle of Bute with the expertise of many researchers from Co. Antrim. It is my goal to give that same gift to as many as I can now and it's in my blood too, I love it. Over the years doing Loyalist research in Canada, mostly from Co. Antrim I've identified peoples ancestors just by surname association from headstones I've seen over there. The inter-connection you refer to over there, I see here too. People travelled and settled with their neighbours which can be found on ships lists, land registrations and cemetery lists over here. I encourage people to try to get over to Northern Ireland if they can. There's no feeling in this world like the feeling of stepping on the same ground your gr gr gr grandparents living on. It is a very unusual feeling and I can't wait to do it again. People might be interested in looking into this event too. It is well worth the money. http://nalil.blogspot.com/2009/04/route-back-home-ballymoney-2010.html Take time to look at the files on this blog too. They do a great job. Linda Merle keep up the great work here, Susan > From: jglunney@eircom.net > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 10:01:58 +0000 > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [S-I] Thoughts on replying to an American/ Canadian/ Australian/ New Zealand/ Argentinian/ South African/ Englih/ Scots/ letter > > I've had a couple of emails about this message which have made me > think that in trying to be amusing, I didn't manage to strike the > notes I meant to. I wanted to say to descendants that if they don't > always get a reply to an initial contact, there might be several > reasons why, and to point out that things might look different from > this side of the Atlantic > > 1. Sometimes the recipient of your letter might mean to reply, but > things just make it difficult, and once you don't reply to a message > for a few weeks then it gets embarrassing to pick it up again > > 2. After years of research, you might well feel that you have > established kinship with the folk in Ireland, that you already know > them, but your letter comes out of the blue to them; they don't know > anything at all about you, and if it is hard for you to imagine their > lives in co. Antrim, so different from yours in Arizona, it is > equally hard for them to imagine you. People in Ulster might well > feel reluctant to write a letter which might have to discuss > potentially upsetting topics like illegitimacy, money, land, to > someone they don't know in the slightest > > 3. When all is said and done, most people in Ulster don't know that > much about distant ancestors; most people in rural areas know a lot > about recent connections, say back to their great grandparents and > may know generally who was related to their family within the last 50 > or 60 years, but before that, there is in general very little exact > knowledge. People in the towns, may often know less than people on > farms. And thus they don't want to have to write back and disappoint > someone, who is keen to know about people who left 200 years ago. > they might not want to have to write a letter saying, "no, sorry, I > don't know anything" when they instinctively know how disappointing > that will be for the recipient > > 4. Mention of DNA links might be a bit offputting for many people in > Ireland; almost no-one understands it or wants to get tangled with > it. If they have heard of DNA at all, it would be in connection with > crime investigations and paternity cases. Much better not to mention > DNA in a first approach. > > 5. I failed especially badly to get my message across in the > section where I was talking about the kind of "Oirish-American" lingo > which is a turn-off for many people in Northern Ireland (for obvious > political and historical reasons; and of course I realize that the > group who read and write Scotch-Irish Rootsweb postings wouldn't make > such an egregious mistake as to use such language in writing to > Ulster relatives!), and so I want to make it clearer to you all that > many people in Ulster very often do feel very strongly the connection > with a place and with a lineage. I personally hope that what I have > been doing in genealogy on the internet will help others make that > connection for themselves. This is something which is a vital part of > my heritage, and I realize how lucky I am that I do know who I am and > where I came from. Knowledge of ancestral places is a wonderful > personal strength for me; everyone who wants to, should be able to > find that knowledge of who and where. I would suggest to everyone > that even if you can't make direct contact with distant kin relatives > in Ireland, that it can be almost as satisfying to make contact with > the place itself; to see the same horizon that your ancestors saw. > And also to make contact with descendants of other families from > there, that your ancestor would have known. People interested in > Ulster Scots ancestry should be aware of how inter-connected all the > families in a given area of several townlands would have been; if not > related, everyone in a five mile radius would have been known. It can > be immensely satisfying to make contact with people whose ancestors > were from the same area. > > 6. And finally to say; don't take it personally! there might be > reasons why they didn't reply. If your initial contact doesn't get a > response, wait a while and try again, maybe with a Christmas card, or > a postcard from your hometown. And make sure it too has your return > address; I really have heard of several enthusiastic "American > letters" which didn't have return addresses on the letter itself > > I hope this clarifies what I was saying in my post of a week ago; I > hope no one has been offended. > > Linde L > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Murray, It is very possible for a parish in Ireland to straddle counties. You need to consult a detailed map to figure out if this is so, though perhaps someone here knows this case. I ran into the situation in Tyrone.Hopefully someone here knows the details or you'll have to study it and learn it. I think what you are trying to determine is the exact location and parents of Frances Elliot? I am wondering if you have done a very thorough check in Canada of any and all death records -- both civil and obits, including county histories. Since you have a number of surnames and individuals, while you are at it, check them all. Also have you checked the on line indexes for a marriage in Ireland? It may or may not identify the names of the parents: http://www.rootsireland.ie/ Registration of children's births -- In Ireland the rule is ALWAYS check the Church of Ireland records. There were several groups of Methodists. Besides moving from the established church to the Methodists, your ancestors could have changed Methodist groups. They could have continued to attend the established church as well. Or returned to it. People aren't stamped some religion and they don't keep it for life. So you check all the records you can find. As a genealogist you should be less concerned with figuring out which Methodist group they were with and more concerned with checking all the church records you can get, just in case there was some little secret that they managed to hide or changed their minds. Looking at Falley "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research", p. 341, in the entire chapter on Methodists, it says that in 18716 they were divided over the sacramental issue. Some adhered to Wesley's insistence on loyalty to the established church. Interestingly it says a group of this opinion met at a conference in Clones, Co. Monaghan in Oct of 1816 and formed the Primitive Methodists (6,136 members). The majority of the Wesleyan Methodists from 1816 on allowed their preachers to baptize children and give communion. Falley says, same page, only one register survives for this group, that of the Rev. Lanktree of County Down, from 1815-1849 . You have got to recall that Methodist ministers itinerated on a circuit. So what circuits (as there were at least 2 groups) Monaghan was on, I don't know. P. 343 says the Primitive Methodist baptisms are in parish records until 1878. This is a very large chapter. There is no way I am typing it into an Email. If I were researching Methodists in Ireland I would find a copy in a library and read it, taking a lot of notes. Otherwise you are like a one legged man trying to run a race: you aren't going to do too well, in your case because you failed to gather all the information you need. This is our biggest problem, as untrained family historians. So to repeat, you always check the established church records. Besides Methodists, Catholics can be found there. For a time too mixed marriages could only be performed in the established church. A priest caught marrying a Protestant and a Catholic was executed. I don't recall the exact dates because I'm a genealogist. So I always check the Church of Ireland records and let the historians worry about the details of why they are or aren't there <grin>! They may be microfilmed and in the FHL....check Fianna online if the FHL catalogue is confusing. (It can be). In any case, another thing the experts tell us is that we will often find records regarding the origin of the person in the country he/she migrated to. This is so with Ireland, where the records are not so good. They also tell us to check tombstones. I assume you did that? Sometimes there is a 15 foot obelisk that says "Native of Ballybumpup, Monaghan, daughter of John Kelly" Never so in the case of MY ancestors, but I have seen these myself. Another thing to do that you seem to be doing is do cluster research. You have a cluster of people and names in Canada, already. Research all of them thoroughly. Also check descendants. My ex husband's ancestors migrated from Ireland about 1750 from Donegal to Philadelphia (DUNCAN is the surname). One of the first inklings I got of this was a random, bored google in a genealogy database for the migrant. Turns out a granddaughter married into a prominent Kentucky family. Her origins were detailed in a county history. My ex's line never set foot in Kentucky, but there it was. So a descendant of the neighbors might have info in a bio. In another case, an unpublished manuscript detailing the history of the family of some neighbors of my ancestors gave the town of origin of my ancestors. This manuscript fell off a shelf in the library and lay on the floor open to the very page with this info --- in front of my mother and sister. Apparently someone wanted to be found! The other link besides parishes is market towns and the main roads that connected them. Your ancestors might have met at the market town. Migration along the main roads was also common in Ireland (it's easier than slogging across bogs and over mountains). Like my one client, whose ancestor in Limerick was related by DNA to the people with the surname in Kerry, not the ones in Limerick along the Shannon estuary. His ancestors lived, not surprisingly, on the main road to Kerry. It was a heck of a lot easier to get to from Kerry than the outer banks of the Shannon. Those folk aren't related by DNA at all. Of course there's an old genealogy about 'the' family that claims they descend from a crew who were chased westward by other Irish clans in Medieval times, but as it is a name related to a saint (son of the devotee of St. Michael) and St. Michael was big in that area, he had more than one devotee -- and so they are not all related to one another at all. I like to think of the hunt for exact locations and parents in Ireland as cyclical. You gather what data you can in Canada and make an attempt to locate the spot. If you can't, you must circle back around and gather more data in Canada. No one likes hearing this because they assume they already found everything in Canada or Turd, Kentucky, wherever. No, they haven't. If they don't know what else to do, they need to read an article on how to research in that time and place or take a course. Learn more, in a word. Then circle back around and try again. As someone who does this professionally and has done it for Irish migrated to Scotland and a few other places as was as America -- I can tell you it works, but a lot of people are too lazy to do it and give up after one or two attempts. The first time through we overlook many, many clues. Like in one case where the ancestors, migrating from, they claimed, Scotland, around 1870s, could not be found in Scotland. I was pretty sure they were in Ireland and did eventually trace them to County Down with a county death record that also ided the names of the wife's parents as well as the county of birth in Ireland. The husband, who had an uncommon first name and common last name, was also not in Scotland. When he was naturalized his two witnesses were first generation Irish immigrants. That took about 5 minutes to establish using censuses. If I didn't know where he was in Ireland I could have found that out by tracing those two fellas to a village in Ireland. I didn't follow up as I knew where he's hiding. I bet one of the folk in your cluster is probably 'findable'. Find his point of origin or a church record and then build a case based on circumstantial evidence for your ancestors. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murray Bell" <murraybel@msn.com> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:15:50 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Tithe Applotment Books..with Bells on!! This got me doing a lot of research and looking at maps etc. What I know is this. My gg grandmother Frances Elliott was born in County Monaghan about 1814. She married jeremiah Bell in the 1830's. There is a jeremiah Bell on the Tithe applotment Books living in the townland of Figevly (now Feegavla) in Inniskeen Parish, Monaghan. Jeremiah and Frances had a son, William born about 1838. The family immigrated to Canada in 1840. In the 1842 Canadian census they are living in Fitzroy Township, carleton County, ontario. They are tenants on a farm owned by David Elliot who came about 1830 from the Kingscourt area of County Cavan, Ireland. I have determined that Frances is definitely not a daughter of David Elliott but Is probably related somehow (maybe a niece). Both the Bell & Elliott families were Wesleyan Methodist. Now , it appears that Feegavla & Kingscourt are no more than 15K apart. I think that there is a strong possibility that Jeremiah Bell, Frances Elliott, and David Elliott knew each other through the same church. Since Methodists used the C of I in those days, I am thinking I should try to track down the C of I records both at Kingscourt Cavan and at Inniskeen, Monaghan. Any other suggestions? Another question. Feegavala is in Inniskeen Parish , Monagahan and Kingscourt is in Enniskeen Parish, Cavan. Are Inniskeen & Enniskeen the same Parish although in different counties? Murray, Bell On Nov 23, 2011, at 8:18 PM, D H wrote: > Well just off hand...you've Clontibret, Inniskeen and Carrickmacross... > > > Clontibret records only have one Bell and as the bride gets married in her church you might need to look elsewhere for Bells; > > 10th Sept1867 William Bell son of George Bell of Toome, married Margaret Leathem dau of Robert Leathem of Avalreagh, witnesses Robert > > Leathem + James Sloan Performed by Archdeacon of Clogher Rev John C.Wolfe > > > 10th Sept1891 James Campbell son of Samuel Campbell of Clontibret, married Annie Elliott dau of Samuel + Isabella Elliott of Avalreagh, Clontibret, > witnesses James Finlay + Minnie Elliott Performed by Rev E.J.Bury (Annie's sister Minnie married on 4th Mar1897 to James Finlay son of John Finlay of > Avalreagh) she also had sisters Charlotte, Margaret Jane, brother Robert Donaldson Elliott, > > > So you have Bell of Toome, Elliott of Clontibret and Avalreagh.... BUT are they part of your lot?? > > St Colman's church in Clontibret would get you Elliotts!! > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/monaghan/photos/tombstones/monaghan-st-colmans/target11.html is an Elliott g/stone there > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/monaghan/photos/tombstones/monaghan-st-colmans/target2.html will get you the Minister's name/address/phone number > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/monaghan/photos/tombstones/markers.htm will get you the index to 100's of g/stone photos that I and a few > others have put on IGP site for Monaghan > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ will get you the counties list where you can search g/stones in other counties. > > Plus there is a general'search' button... > > > > On 24/11/2011 00:10, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: >> From: Murray Bell<murraybel@msn.com> >> Subject: Re: [S-I] Tithe Applotment Books.. >> To:scotch-irish@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID:<BLU0-SMTP135FC2F9DD6AA1803D7D7B6AECE0@phx.gbl> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> DH >> >> Good advice. Checked out some adjoining townlands in Griffiths& 1911 census. Found Bells in both on a adjoining townland-Lower Cordrummans. Can't access Tithe books on line, Will get over to the library next week to check them out. >> >> The Bells in Griffiths and the 1911 census were Church of Ireland. Do you where the nearby C of I churches were? >> >> thanks, murray > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This got me doing a lot of research and looking at maps etc. What I know is this. My gg grandmother Frances Elliott was born in County Monaghan about 1814. She married jeremiah Bell in the 1830's. There is a jeremiah Bell on the Tithe applotment Books living in the townland of Figevly (now Feegavla) in Inniskeen Parish, Monaghan. Jeremiah and Frances had a son, William born about 1838. The family immigrated to Canada in 1840. In the 1842 Canadian census they are living in Fitzroy Township, carleton County, ontario. They are tenants on a farm owned by David Elliot who came about 1830 from the Kingscourt area of County Cavan, Ireland. I have determined that Frances is definitely not a daughter of David Elliott but Is probably related somehow (maybe a niece). Both the Bell & Elliott families were Wesleyan Methodist. Now , it appears that Feegavla & Kingscourt are no more than 15K apart. I think that there is a strong possibility that Jeremiah Bell, Frances Elliott, and David Elliott knew each other through the same church. Since Methodists used the C of I in those days, I am thinking I should try to track down the C of I records both at Kingscourt Cavan and at Inniskeen, Monaghan. Any other suggestions? Another question. Feegavala is in Inniskeen Parish , Monagahan and Kingscourt is in Enniskeen Parish, Cavan. Are Inniskeen & Enniskeen the same Parish although in different counties? Murray, Bell On Nov 23, 2011, at 8:18 PM, D H wrote: > Well just off hand...you've Clontibret, Inniskeen and Carrickmacross... > > > Clontibret records only have one Bell and as the bride gets married in her church you might need to look elsewhere for Bells; > > 10th Sept1867 William Bell son of George Bell of Toome, married Margaret Leathem dau of Robert Leathem of Avalreagh, witnesses Robert > > Leathem + James Sloan Performed by Archdeacon of Clogher Rev John C.Wolfe > > > 10th Sept1891 James Campbell son of Samuel Campbell of Clontibret, married Annie Elliott dau of Samuel + Isabella Elliott of Avalreagh, Clontibret, > witnesses James Finlay + Minnie Elliott Performed by Rev E.J.Bury (Annie's sister Minnie married on 4th Mar1897 to James Finlay son of John Finlay of > Avalreagh) she also had sisters Charlotte, Margaret Jane, brother Robert Donaldson Elliott, > > > So you have Bell of Toome, Elliott of Clontibret and Avalreagh.... BUT are they part of your lot?? > > St Colman's church in Clontibret would get you Elliotts!! > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/monaghan/photos/tombstones/monaghan-st-colmans/target11.html is an Elliott g/stone there > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/monaghan/photos/tombstones/monaghan-st-colmans/target2.html will get you the Minister's name/address/phone number > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/monaghan/photos/tombstones/markers.htm will get you the index to 100's of g/stone photos that I and a few > others have put on IGP site for Monaghan > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ will get you the counties list where you can search g/stones in other counties. > > Plus there is a general'search' button... > > > > On 24/11/2011 00:10, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: >> From: Murray Bell<murraybel@msn.com> >> Subject: Re: [S-I] Tithe Applotment Books.. >> To:scotch-irish@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID:<BLU0-SMTP135FC2F9DD6AA1803D7D7B6AECE0@phx.gbl> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> DH >> >> Good advice. Checked out some adjoining townlands in Griffiths& 1911 census. Found Bells in both on a adjoining townland-Lower Cordrummans. Can't access Tithe books on line, Will get over to the library next week to check them out. >> >> The Bells in Griffiths and the 1911 census were Church of Ireland. Do you where the nearby C of I churches were? >> >> thanks, murray > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Linda, Once again I have to congratulate on such a fine reply. How on earth do you find the time to answer nearly all the messages to this site. The information you have given me goes along with the discoveries already made by myself. The biggest problem I have discovered before 1700 is the writing which was used in the parish records of the north-east. The f's and s's are the same, the script is so bunched up as if there was a shortage of paper, which I think might be the truth. My earliest ancestor was a 'butcher', which I believe is the second eldest Guild to be founded, sometime around 1200AD. There rules at that time make very interesting reading, my conclusion, having worked in the retail trade for 40 years is that the only thing that has changed is refrigeration. But to answer your question about occupations, it seems that every branch of my particular line of HUME has produced a schoolmaster, mistress, teacher, and any other form of non physical work. Even today, not one of the current family and extended family have worked as a manual labourer, factory worker, miner or maker of things. All rather strange for three centuries of the same family. It also means that my ancestors could read and write to some degree. Looking at marriage certificates it gives me some pleasure when I notice that my family have been able to write their names in the records, although most of the 'ladies' have signed with the proverbial X. Started to watch the series of Who Do You Think You Are, USA. Any idea why they are only 35 minutes long over here, ours are an hour. Once again, many thanks for your informative reply, Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year to all. John Hume In a windy and cold Nottingham UK ----- Original Message ----- From: <lmerle@comcast.net> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple > Hi John, > > You don't indicate what occupations your family had in the early 1700s in > Durham, but if they were not well-off, most likely it'll be difficult to > trace them without the DNA. My paternal line left Durham about 1881, so > I'm familiar with the place. Lots of border clan folk moved south or east > to get jobs in the burgeoning industrial age. Sometimes they were slowly > migrating from Northumberland. I've been able to trace a few of mine down > through Northumberland, but `it is difficult. Even now I have met people > in the area who hate the Scots and haven't forgiven them for raids and > wars of 400 years or more distant. So having a Scots surname didn't > increase your popularity. Besides these people being of humble birth, they > had learned to survive by keeping a low profile. It's possible many were > not members of parishes. > > It used to be that one was settled into a parish, where one had to go to > church, at least in England, or pay fines, and where one eventually had > the right to claim services if destitute. There were complicated rules > governing this such as a year's residency. Hence many farmers, coal mines, > and factories, only signed workers on for a length of time shorter than a > year so that the parish didn't 'gain' them as legal residents. If your > husband died in a farm or mine accident, then you and the children had to > hoof it back to wherever it was you were legally from. Or starve or die on > the way. Whatever. These laws created a whole class of itinerant poor who > had no rights to services. Thus it's hard to find records of them. One way > can be baptisms of children. We've been hampered because many northeast > parishes were not indexed in IGI. More are now, but there is also a > website that is indexing them. > > Another factor can be the values of the people themselves. Some of them > simply did not cooperate with authorities. Mine did not register their > children's births long after it was required that they do so. We have > never found the civil death or burial of my ancestor's first wife. He > claims he was a widow when marrying the second. Did he roll her body into > a gully? They did register the birth of their daughter and he was > re-married in the same parish by banns. So people thought he was a > widower. These people can be a challenge for those who believe genealogy > is a simple exercise of ordering records because sometimes legally > required documents do not exist or the information is inconsistent. > > With a name like Hume, they originated in Scotland at some point. The > records for the Scots border counties are terrible. Folks were even more > suspicious of central authorities, as we move from the 18th century back, > and you also have a lot of records destruction. Back to England -- a > number of key medieval English taxes were imposed to pay for costs > incurred in fighting off the Scots and rebuilding the area -- so our area > was not included at all. > > If they seemed to be settled on estates, such as farms, you might check > for estate records. The problem though usually is the names are so common > how do you tell them apart? I have a John Armstrong, a blacksmith in a > village in Northumberland about that time. Next generation headed south to > Durham. He wasn't raised in the parish. No Armstrongs in the parish > records. Where'd he come from? It sure isn't hard to find Johnny > Armstrongs in Northumberland. We're before the time when marriage records > identified his father -- probably another Johnny A. anyway <grin>. > Hundreds of Armstrongs moved south after King James started hanging them > from trees at Newcastle. > > The further back I get on these lines -- and as I said ALL my father's > paternal ancestors are from the area -- the more I accumulate every Scots > and English border clan surname. > > The mobile ex-parishal labor force of the day included many Irish. > Sometimes they returned each year to the same areas to harvest crops, > eventually, perhaps, remaining. You can find glimpses of them in parish > records, where they sometimes occur as 'dead Irishman, buried on <date>' > or 'baptized Irishwoman's child, <date>'. One time I found a parish where > the vicar swept down on the poor house and baptized all the Irish children > therein. Of course he didn't bother to name them. > > One good source for understanding the lives of the poor in the 17th > century is Christopher Hill, a contemporary socialist historian. He has > written a series of fascinating works on the common people. One is > "Liberty Against the Law" which argues that the law in the 17th century > was used as an instrument of oppression. He cites enclosures, loss of > traditional rights, 'draconian' punishments for minor offenses, that > created a landless class of wage laborers. He estimates that only 20 > percent of the population could have lived comfortably within the law and > documents dissenters. Some of these lived in ad hoc villages in 'common' > land -- swamps and forests. Among them were itinerating Baptist preachers, > Quakers, and Methodists, smugglers, pirates, highwaymen, poachers and of > course 'gypsies', both the ones clearly not of English origins and various > what we now call Travelers -- who were British in origin. > > Rich men were sold the right to round up all the homeless in London and > ship them off as slaves to Virginia and the West Indies in the sixteenth > and seventeenth centuries. > > P 202 documents the history of opposition to church marriages, which he > says stems from the Lollards. In our area it might go back a lot further > to common marriage practices such as handfasting that were pre Christian > and never entirely fell out of practice. > > The history is interesting, though the trail of the ancestors is probably > hopeless <grin>! My paternal line itself I can't get back earlier than the > late 1700s. They were in the parish of Stanhope, which is the highest > (most mountainous) parish in England. Its parish records are terrible. No > burial records to speak of either. Tombstones? Ha! I suspect they > practiced Tibetan air burial up there in the mountains. Early histories > indicate that the Church of England hardly existed. Some villages were > Presbyterian though undoubtedly some were Catholic. Presbyterians serviced > from Scotland? No. Minister came from Lancaster, other side of the > mountain in England, and another place ful of English recusants > (Catholics). I speak of Presbyterian villages (es. Iresdale) in the late > 1700s, early 1800s. As the 1800s progressed the church made an effort to > control the parish of Stanhope but it was already 'burned over' by the > Methodists by then. Wesley often preached to the lead miners in ! > the area. The rich are potted in the parish church. Everyone else? If they > were buried there it was without any record kept despite laws requiring > that they were. What we do have are records of contracts between companies > and lead miners. The lead miners worked tiny mines in family groups. > They'd been working lead as early as the Roman times. > > This is our village: > http://www.englandsnortheast.co.uk/Weardale.html > https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Weardale > > Much history: > http://www.weardaleway.wanadoo.co.uk/history2.html > "In December 1569, the valley was the setting for a border fray in which a > large group of mosstroopers (cattle raiders), from Tynedale, made a raid > to plunder the Wear valley for its livestock while many of the Weardale > men were away plotting against the Queen in the famous `Rising of the > North'. Resistance to the raid was expected to be low, but there were > still a number of Weardale men left to defend their dale. The mosstroopers > were pursued north into the Rookhope valley, as they made off with the > cattle and sheep. When the Weardale men eventually caught up a fight > ensued in which four of the Tynedalers lost their lives." > > The Tynedalers were of course English too but such mattered little on the > borders. Needless to say, my ancestors migrated down the Wear in the early > 1800s, finally settling in the Hetton le Hole. We didn't trust the people > in those other valleys, apparently. > > History on the "Rising of the North" is here: > https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Rising_of_the_North > http://www.englandsnortheast.co.uk/Tudor.html > > As for peasant stock -- it is the best! Not only because it is hardy and > full of genes that have yet to express themselves, but they're actually > natives, unlike the 'upper classes' of England and Scotland who are likely > to be Normans. While the Normans conquered England, they were invited to > Scotland by the king to create a feudal state from a land full of bands of > tribal, marauding Gaels and Picts who held their land by right of conquest > and so had no loyalty to a king perched on a big rock off the Firth of > Forth. Similar to the English valleys of Durham in the late 16th century > <grin>. > > I don't know if it is true or not, but one history of my CULMER line in > Kent has one going north with Henry VII, I think it was, to kick ass in > Scotland. He was married off to a Scots heiress and adopted as his surname > the name of her estate: Lindsay. Now the descendants wear kilts and think > they descend on the male line from picts and gaels. Eh, maybe not. The > Culmers supposedly were Swedish nobles who came to Kent with the Vikings. > > Linda Merle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john.hume" <john.hume@ntlworld.com> > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 4:40:02 AM > Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple > > Hi Doralyn. > Many thanks for your reply. > Unfortunately I don't think I'm related to any HUME nobility. I joined the > HUME Clan about 5 years ago because of my general interest in anything > HUME. > My own family is easy top trace back to Durham in 1721, before then, a > mystery. My DNA 67 marker ties in with a HUMES in USA, he traces his HUMES > back to Ireland around 1760, but nothing in either of the family trees. > Out > of the 30 HUME members of the Hume Clan, having had their DNA taken, I and > Larry (USA) do not match with any other HUME. Most of the others, about 20 > of them are related to Sir Alec Douglas Hume and his ancestors, including > the Marchmont and Polwarth Humes, all of whom were knighted. So I must > have > been from peasant stock. Only certain fact is that I originated from the > Vikings, proven by DNA and a little 'disease' called Dupuytren's Disease, > something which attacks mainly the ring finger of either hand. The tendons > tighten up causing the finger(s) to be pulled inwards, unable to > straighten > them. Had my right hand operated on last year, my left one is on the way. > It > has to be at around 45 degrees before they operate, mind is only 10 > degrees > at the moment, so I've a few more years yet. (Jokingly) I put it all down > to > the fact that we had to row those Vikings ships all the way from > Estonia/Norway etc to Ireland. No Sat Navs in those days. > LOL > anyway, Thanks for your interest > regards > > John Hume > wet, windy, cold Nottingham > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ShortGD@aol.com> > To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 6:49 PM > Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple > > >> Hi John Hume, >> >> Interesting that you stated your line goes back to Ireland/Scotland from >> around 1600. I have very little on the Hume name but from my research on >> the Conway line I have that George Hume married Mary Unknown and lived in >> the >> noted Tully Castle at the time of the Rebellion. I have that his father >> was Sir John Hume from Scotland and he had a younger brother named >> Patrick. >> I thought he may have married Mary Conway; he negotiated for her hand but >> somehow the plans fell through before her father's death. Would this be >> your line? >> >> Doralyn Short >> >> >> In a message dated 12/6/2011 12:35:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, >> john.hume@ntlworld.com writes: >> >> >> Hi everyone, >> Like Marilyn I to have had by DNA done, and have about 10 37 and three 67 >> matches. Of those I have only one 67 marker person who is interested in >> my >> line. We think we go back to Ireland/Scotland from around 1600. Finding >> that >> information is very difficult at the moment. But why do people bother >> having >> their DNA taken at great expense and then not doing anything with the >> results. I also joined Genes reunites, that is even worst. I've actually >> connected with countless people, but do they want anything to do with the >> HUME family, no. I'm getting a GUILTY COMPLEX. >> Anyone out there with a HUME, please send me a nice Christmas surprise, >> many >> thanks >> John Hume in Nottingham >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marilyn Otterson" <rosiedoggie@myfairpoint.net> >> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 11:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple >> >> >>> Hello, folks, >>> >>> I am writing this note that may seem a little heretical to many fans of >>> Y-DNA searches, but I just wanted to show another side where people >>> might >>> not want to spend the money for deep searches unless the information >>> they >>> seek is not to learn if there are others out there with the same DNA, >>> but >>> other information that may gives hints to their ancestry. I was >>> somewhat >>> interested a few years ago but to start only got tested (well, had my >>> dad's >>> brother's son got his DNA tested for me) for 25 markers. >>> >>> I had decided that if I found somebody with a 25 marker match that >> perhaps >>> each of us might want to go further to 37 or even 67 markers if we were >>> both >>> interested. >>> >>> Another participant on this list or another convinced her cousin to get >>> tested for 25 markers, and lo! he had the same surname as mine and his >>> ancestors came from the same very tiny townland in Co. Tyrone as >>> mine....but >>> he was not interested at all in swapping information. I figure that >> with >>> the same markers and the same very small location we are probably >>> connected >>> not too many generations in the past, but since that person wasn't >>> interested in going further, it was all kind of for naught. I have also >>> had >>> a couple of other people, but with different surnames, who have the same >>> 25 >>> markers, but neither of them was interested in swapping information, >>> either. >>> I feel that if people can get such a close match it's kind of silly not >> to >>> go further and to exchange information if not going for more markers. >> It >>> was a real disappointment to learn I may have a "cousin" in Tyrone, but >>> can't exchange family information since he is not interested in >>> participating. >>> >>> I think we all, if we have DNA tested, hope we might find another with >> the >>> shared ancestors, but when people are tested with no desire to discuss >>> possible connections, or to research such, it's just kind of sad and >>> futile, >>> at least it is to me. >>> >>> Marilyn (Armstrong)(And Field, McCoy, Milligan and more) >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dannye Powell" <dannye700@aol.com> >>> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 8:53 AM >>> Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA Made Simple >>> >>> >>>> What is the ancestr.s name? >>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone >>>> >>>> Les Tate <lrtate@live.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>I'm new to this group, however I wanted to comment that understanding >>>>>Y-DNA results is not simple by any means. >>>>> >>>>>You may learn your general male line haplogroup by getting just the 12 >>>>>marker Y-DNA test (for women you'd have to submit your father or >>>>>brother's >>>>>sample), however there are more extensive tests that can better define >>>>>the >>>>>haplogroup. For instance, I've gone from 12-markers to 37 markers to 67 >>>>>markers to 111-markers, plus a deep clade (SNP) test. My haplogroup has >>>>>gone from R1b to R1b1a2a1a1b4 and it matches the Scottish Modal with >>>>>little variation. However it doesn't end there. Since my SNP marker >>>>>L21 >>>>>was positive and all the others tested thus far have been negative, >>>>>that >>>>>led me to the R-L21+ Y-DNA Project, which has several hundred members >> who >>>>>are all at least R1b1 and positive for L21, with many having fairly >>>>>well >>>>>defined haplogroups as well as being positive for other SNPs. However >> all >>>>>are searching for even more defining information to indicate where our >>>>>distant ancestors came from. While I fall into the Scottish Cluster >>>>>there, >>>>>many other clusters are not Scottish. Plus! >>>> ,! >>>>> there are subgroups of the Scottish Cluster that are still being >>>>> defined >>>>> as more advanced SNP tests become available. >>>>> >>>>>Matches to your Y-DNA results may help define your Y-DNA ancestor's >>>>>origin >>>>>and if you're very fortunate, you may find someone with the same or a >>>>>similar surname who can help extend your genealogy research and >>>>>possibly >>>>>better define your common ancestor's origin. Early in my Y-DNA tests >> and >>>>>at a roadblock in my paternal genealogy research, I was fortunate to >>>>>locate someone with the same surname who I matched perfectly at 12, >>>>>then >>>>>37, then 67 markers, although the most recent extension to 111 >>>>>markers >>>>>shows some slight variation on a couple of the more mutatable markers. >>>>>However by working together over about two years, we found our common >>>>>ancestor 7 generations back and I now have distant cousins who are >>>>>descendants of a different son of that ancestor. >>>>> >>>>>We were fortunate to find that our genealogical research indicated >>>>>Scottish or Scots-Irish ancestry, with our common male ancestor being >>>>>born >>>>>somewhere in Ulster (North Ireland) in 1731, migrating to what was to >>>>>become the U.S. by 1755, moving into what were largely Scots-Irish >>>>>areas >>>>>in VA, NC, and TN by the time of the American Revolution. We also found >> >>>>>he >>>>>was a neighbor and hunting/exploring companion of Daniel Boone in Rowan >>>>>County NC and was one of the Overmountain Men in the Battle of Kings >>>>>Mountain in 1780. >>>>> >>>>>What I want to indicate is that your DNA testing should not be just >>>>>stand-alone information, but serve to assist and augment your >>>>>genealogy >>>>>research. >>>>> >>>>>Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) tests can likewise provide general origins of >>>>>your maternal line, however it is difficult to determine exact origins. >> >>>>>It >>>>>is also difficult to augment with your genealogy research since wives' >>>>>maiden names were often not recorded, especially as you go further back >> >>>>>in >>>>>time. While my mtDNA results shows Native American ancestry, which is >>>>>backed up by some oral family history, exact names and origins are not >>>>>available before 1850 for my maternal line. Matches to my mtDNA results >>>>>are few and only indicate a common Native American female ancestor >>>>>somewhere in the eastern area of what is now the U.S. >>>>> >>>>>I don't want to discourage you or anyone else from getting DNA tests >>>>>done, >>>>>since the results can be very helpful. However it won't answer all the >>>>>questions you may have because more questions arise with each new >>>>>finding. >>>>> >>>>>Les Tate >>>>>========== >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Nov 28, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Heather Dau wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Linda, please recommend a book/site that spells out how to read >>>>>> DNA >>>>>> results (especially Y-DNA); something understandable, please. >>>>>> >>>>>> Heather >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>> without >>>>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>------------------------------- >>>>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >>>>>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

CanadianHeadstones.com is a rapidly growing database currently with over 322,000 headstone /gravestone photographs complete with transcriptions of the text on the stones. You can search for a record by Surname or Given Names. However, you can also search the Comments, Transcription field of the database using the command Contains. As an example, a search of the Comments, Transcription field using the command Contains Tyrone would locate any headstone records which mention Tyrone. That's CanadianHeadstones.com Good Luck!

Does it mention any Barnetts? Thanks Carolyn > [Original Message] > From: <scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com> > To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Date: 12/10/2011 12:48:26 AM > Subject: SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 6, Issue 298 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > (Sharon Oddie Brown) > 2. Re: The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > (Ulster Ancestry) > 3. Re: The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > (Sharon Oddie Brown) > 4. Re: The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > (Edward Andrews) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 12:49:27 -0800 > From: Sharon Oddie Brown <s.brown@dccnet.com> > Subject: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, > 1607-41 > To: "scotch-irish@rootsweb.com" <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <4EE27457.6000704@dccnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > Has anyone had a look at: > > > The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > > > Is it worth getting? Does it mention any JACKSONs? > Sharon Oddie Brown > > -- > Sharon Oddie Brown, > Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. > History Project: www.thesilverbowl.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 21:15:23 +0000 > From: Ulster Ancestry <ulsterancestry@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, > 1607-41 > To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <BAY148-W48635D13B82BDE34458926C3B90@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Hello Sharon, > > I have an original typed manuscript of this given to me by the author Bob Hunter. > I put it away somewhere, but I'll try and hunt it out. > > If I find it, I'll let you know about Jacksons. > > best regards > > Robert > www.ulsterancestry.com > > > > > > Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:49:27 -0800 > > From: s.brown@dccnet.com > > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > > > > Has anyone had a look at: > > > > > > The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > > > > > > Is it worth getting? Does it mention any JACKSONs? > > Sharon Oddie Brown > > > > -- > > Sharon Oddie Brown, > > Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. > > History Project: www.thesilverbowl.com > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 13:26:22 -0800 > From: Sharon Oddie Brown <sharonoddiebrown@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, > 1607-41 > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4EE27CFE.2020601@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Thank you! > Sharon > Sharon Oddie Brown, Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. History Project: > http://www.thesilverbowl.com/ > > On 09/12/2011 1:15 PM, Ulster Ancestry wrote: > > > > Hello Sharon, > > > > I have an original typed manuscript of this given to me by the author Bob Hunter. > > I put it away somewhere, but I'll try and hunt it out. > > > > If I find it, I'll let you know about Jacksons. > > > > best regards > > > > Robert > > www.ulsterancestry.com > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:49:27 -0800 > >> From: s.brown@dccnet.com > >> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > >> > >> Has anyone had a look at: > >> > >> > >> The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > >> > >> > >> Is it worth getting? Does it mention any JACKSONs? > >> Sharon Oddie Brown > >> > >> -- > >> Sharon Oddie Brown, > >> Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. > >> History Project: www.thesilverbowl.com > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:11:48 -0000 > From: "Edward Andrews" <edward.andrews@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, > 1607-41 > To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <3DD490EE5E8643B0853F56961C0B1E51@EdwardHP> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Is that Bob Hunter who lectured at Magee? > > Was that his dissertation I think he got a MLit for it? > Edward > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > > Ulster Ancestry > > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:15 PM > > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster > > Plantation, 1607-41 > > > > > > > > Hello Sharon, > > > > I have an original typed manuscript of this given to me by > > the author Bob Hunter. > > I put it away somewhere, but I'll try and hunt it out. > > > > If I find it, I'll let you know about Jacksons. > > > > best regards > > > > Robert > > www.ulsterancestry.com > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:49:27 -0800 > > > From: s.brown@dccnet.com > > > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, > > > 1607-41 > > > > > > Has anyone had a look at: > > > > > > > > > The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > > > > > > > > > Is it worth getting? Does it mention any JACKSONs? > > > Sharon Oddie Brown > > > > > > -- > > > Sharon Oddie Brown, > > > Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. > > > History Project: www.thesilverbowl.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the SCOTCH-IRISH list administrator, send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the SCOTCH-IRISH mailing list, send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 6, Issue 298 > ********************************************

Yes, Edward, one in the same. The late Bob Hunter, a wonderful historian. As I recall, it was a project he did with one of his classes. His life's work, all his papers, have been sent to PRONI, so will be available to researchers at some point.. best regards Robert > From: edward.andrews@btinternet.com > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 00:11:48 +0000 > Subject: Re: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > > Is that Bob Hunter who lectured at Magee? > > Was that his dissertation I think he got a MLit for it? > Edward > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > > Ulster Ancestry > > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:15 PM > > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster > > Plantation, 1607-41 > > > > > > > > Hello Sharon, > > > > I have an original typed manuscript of this given to me by > > the author Bob Hunter. > > I put it away somewhere, but I'll try and hunt it out. > > > > If I find it, I'll let you know about Jacksons. > > > > best regards > > > > Robert > > www.ulsterancestry.com > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:49:27 -0800 > > > From: s.brown@dccnet.com > > > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, > > > 1607-41 > > > > > > Has anyone had a look at: > > > > > > > > > The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > > > > > > > > > Is it worth getting? Does it mention any JACKSONs? > > > Sharon Oddie Brown > > > > > > -- > > > Sharon Oddie Brown, > > > Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. > > > History Project: www.thesilverbowl.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is that Bob Hunter who lectured at Magee? Was that his dissertation I think he got a MLit for it? Edward > -----Original Message----- > From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Ulster Ancestry > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:15 PM > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster > Plantation, 1607-41 > > > > Hello Sharon, > > I have an original typed manuscript of this given to me by > the author Bob Hunter. > I put it away somewhere, but I'll try and hunt it out. > > If I find it, I'll let you know about Jacksons. > > best regards > > Robert > www.ulsterancestry.com > > > > > > Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:49:27 -0800 > > From: s.brown@dccnet.com > > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, > > 1607-41 > > > > Has anyone had a look at: > > > > > > The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > > > > > > Is it worth getting? Does it mention any JACKSONs? > > Sharon Oddie Brown > > > > -- > > Sharon Oddie Brown, > > Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. > > History Project: www.thesilverbowl.com > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Sharon, I have an original typed manuscript of this given to me by the author Bob Hunter. I put it away somewhere, but I'll try and hunt it out. If I find it, I'll let you know about Jacksons. best regards Robert www.ulsterancestry.com > Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:49:27 -0800 > From: s.brown@dccnet.com > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Subject: [S-I] The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > > Has anyone had a look at: > > > The Strabane Barony during the Ulster Plantation, 1607-41 > > > Is it worth getting? Does it mention any JACKSONs? > Sharon Oddie Brown > > -- > Sharon Oddie Brown, > Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. > History Project: www.thesilverbowl.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message