Boyse, Samuel and Rev. Boyse his father.... I can't find my McGuires... still searching! Ginger In a message dated 1/3/2012 11:09:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, jglunney@eircom.net writes: Thanks Ginger! which ancestors? Linde ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Linde, These are fabulous books! If I could figure out a way to bring them home with me without it costing the same in books, I would do it. My ancestors are in this book and it's a fascinating read. If anyone is in Dublin I think Eason's carries the volumes or most of them. Well done! And thank you! Ginger Ginger Aarons, CTC, Director Time Travel (Tours) LLC P.O. Box 4427 Wilsonville, OR 97070 503-454-0897 tollfree and fax 877-787-7807 cell 503-421-0029 _www.timetraveltours.com_ (http://www.timetraveltours.com/) MEMBERS OF : ASTA, ICTA, CLIA, ROTARY, GWA Region VI Director - Garden Writer's Association PR Chair - Sherwood Rotary Club In a message dated 1/3/2012 1:33:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, jglunney@eircom.net writes: Hello Dave thanks for your kind remarks! Yes, it is a most important project for everyone interested in Ireland. I have been working on it since 1982! So I am pleased to tell you that we published over 9,000 lives in nine handsome volumes in late 2009, and we also have an online version which allows searching and eventual corrections if needed. The bad news is that the online version allows limited free access, but is intended as a subscription service only. University libraries worldwide and perhaps some larger public libraries will have subscriptions and should also very often have the hard copy volumes. Of course the hard copy version is still available to buy! and information about that is available on the site as well. I don't know if individuals in South Africa can subscribe to the online version; as far as I know that possibility has not been negotiated for all worldwide individual customers Here is the website address http://dib.cambridge.org/ It will allow you to see the list of names of people that we have researched and written up. It is of course an all-Ireland list; (for instance 239 people associated with co. Antrim). The online site allows you to use the advanced search so you can for instance find the names of architects in DIB. The full text search is also available (49 uses of the word "Scotch", 11 of "Scotch-Irish"). I have written mainly people from the north of Ireland, and also some of the 18th and 19th century emigrants. If you see someone about whom you know a lot, don't hesitate to write to the project to offer extra information. We can add extra material and will in due course add extra names from history who missed out on entries in the first edition. At the moment we are working on people who have died and thus become eligible for inclusion, since our original cut-off date, which was 2003. Hope you find someone of interest in DIB. Best wishes Linde ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lang my your lum reek means "long my your chimney smoke"....a wish that the recipient of the message will have the good fortune in the coming year to have enough money to have a fire going to cook and keep warm through the coming days. Marilyn in NH ----- Original Message ----- From: "KERRY BRANDOFF" <kerry1947@msn.com> To: "scotch-irish Scotch Irish List" <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] 2012 > > "Lang may your lum reek." Any explanations please?? > Kerry > > Genealogy Nut Looking for these families: Abernathy/Abernethy, Adams, > Brooks, Graham, Hartwig, Hicks, Key, McClendon, Knierim, Johnson, > Latta/Latty, Legg,Travis, Twitty (Grahams are SI from SC>TN>AL>TX) > > >> From: rosiedoggie@myfairpoint.net >> To: Colmac@colinmccallum.plus.com; scotch-irish@rootsweb.com >> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 17:11:33 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [S-I] 2012 >> >> Long may you also have plenty of wood to keep your chimney smoking >> cheerfully, too, Colin. And a happy new year to you from New Hampshire >> USA. >> Marilyn >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Colin McCallum" <Colmac@colinmccallum.plus.com> >> To: <scotland@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 7:43 PM >> Subject: [S-I] 2012 >> >> >> > My I wish all listers "A Happy and Prosperous New Year" >> > >> > Not forgetting the Auld Edinburgh New Year Greeting, >> > >> > "Lang May Your Lum Reek" >> > >> > Yours as Aye, >> > >> > Colin McCalum, A Scot far from home. >> > >> >>From a damp Northern Ireland or Norn I'ron. >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Lang may yer lum reek! (Long may your chimney smoke!) Wi' ither folks coal! (With other people's coal!) (The second line is said to have originated in Edinburgh!) Here's tae us - Wha's like us - Damn few - And they're a' deid - Mairs the pity! Here's to the heath, the hill and the heather, The bonnet, the plaid, the kilt and the feather! Here's to the heroes that Scotland can boast, May their names never dee - That's the Heilan' Man's Toast! MJ LIke wild animals? Watch live cams in South Africa at www.wildearth.tv

Hello Dave thanks for your kind remarks! Yes, it is a most important project for everyone interested in Ireland. I have been working on it since 1982! So I am pleased to tell you that we published over 9,000 lives in nine handsome volumes in late 2009, and we also have an online version which allows searching and eventual corrections if needed. The bad news is that the online version allows limited free access, but is intended as a subscription service only. University libraries worldwide and perhaps some larger public libraries will have subscriptions and should also very often have the hard copy volumes. Of course the hard copy version is still available to buy! and information about that is available on the site as well. I don't know if individuals in South Africa can subscribe to the online version; as far as I know that possibility has not been negotiated for all worldwide individual customers Here is the website address http://dib.cambridge.org/ It will allow you to see the list of names of people that we have researched and written up. It is of course an all-Ireland list; (for instance 239 people associated with co. Antrim). The online site allows you to use the advanced search so you can for instance find the names of architects in DIB. The full text search is also available (49 uses of the word "Scotch", 11 of "Scotch-Irish"). I have written mainly people from the north of Ireland, and also some of the 18th and 19th century emigrants. If you see someone about whom you know a lot, don't hesitate to write to the project to offer extra information. We can add extra material and will in due course add extra names from history who missed out on entries in the first edition. At the moment we are working on people who have died and thus become eligible for inclusion, since our original cut-off date, which was 2003. Hope you find someone of interest in DIB. Best wishes Linde

Cassandra certainly existed; she is in the Belfast News Letter of the 1790s. I am not related in any way to Montgomerys but I have researched a few of the families to whom they connect, for my work on the Dictionary of Irish Biography. In that context I am interested in the Killead Montgomerys because I worked on the Carlisles who were ship designers and shipowners in Belfast; their mother was a Montgomery. They really are or were related to everyone; we would need a computer genealogy program that can do 3D modelling. Linde

Hi there, I am away from home visiting family but will have a look at my genealogical materials for Ematris when I get home to see if I can find any connection to your Ematris ancestors. My connection is through my maternal grandfather, Henry Wesh(aka Walsh) who was evidently born there. His parents emigrated to Scotland when he and his younger brother were quite young.I have some names of his ancestors in Ireland but not much more than that. I do not have the maps/government grants you refer to. My mother came to Canada in 1927 and married an English born homesteader in Saskatchewan in 1929.I have his homestead records but they would not be of use for the province ofQuebec. If I find anything that looks useful I will let you know. Please note my email address has been updated to roswei@sasktel.net Cheers Rosemary Sent from my iPhone On 2011-12-31, at 1:53 AM, "Guest Account" <slsmith112@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello > > Happy New Year > > I found your email on line in a rootweb.com thread on the Scott Irish in early Lakefield, Quebec, Canada records. > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/Scotch-Irish/2008-01/1199391637 > > I am wondering if you have any records on your early maps of Lakefield government grants (100 acres) to settlers in the early 1800's that could apply to a Joseph Dawson and his wife, Jane Fleming, who we think might be from Ematris Parish, Monaghan County, Ireland (Church of England or Protestant Scot/Irish). Joseph and his wife would probably have been born in Ematris around 1780-1790 or so. I am also wondering about an Edward Dawson, born in 1700's, who would have been granted land in the same place. > > Thank you! > > Sue Leighton (DAWSON) Smith > New Canaan, CT > slsmith112@gmail.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

http://www.rampantscotland.com/know/blknow_toasts.htm Lang may yer lum reek! (Long may your chimney smoke!) Wi' ither folks coal! (With other people's coal!) (The second line is said to have originated in Edinburgh!) Les Tate ================ On Jan 1, 2012, at 2:55 PM, KERRY BRANDOFF wrote: > > "Lang may your lum reek." Any explanations please?? > Kerry > > Genealogy Nut Looking for these families: Abernathy/Abernethy, Adams, Brooks, Graham, Hartwig, Hicks, Key, McClendon, Knierim, Johnson, Latta/Latty, Legg,Travis, Twitty (Grahams are SI from SC>TN>AL>TX) > > >> From: rosiedoggie@myfairpoint.net >> To: Colmac@colinmccallum.plus.com; scotch-irish@rootsweb.com >> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 17:11:33 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [S-I] 2012 >> >> Long may you also have plenty of wood to keep your chimney smoking >> cheerfully, too, Colin. And a happy new year to you from New Hampshire USA. >> Marilyn >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Colin McCallum" <Colmac@colinmccallum.plus.com> >> To: <scotland@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 7:43 PM >> Subject: [S-I] 2012 >> >> >>> My I wish all listers "A Happy and Prosperous New Year" >>> >>> Not forgetting the Auld Edinburgh New Year Greeting, >>> >>> "Lang May Your Lum Reek" >>> >>> Yours as Aye, >>> >>> Colin McCalum, A Scot far from home. >>> >>>> From a damp Northern Ireland or Norn I'ron. >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Where's the army????...ah you can't fool me!! They are facing off the cowboys on Main Street!! ______________________________________________________________________________________ The sagebrush was blowing down the street, the rattle snakes were rattling away, and the cowboys were facing off on main street. Well, I'm heading out to feed the cattle. Hope I don't run into any more rattle snakes today. Oops, here comes some sage brush. Oh, and some Indians, on the warpath as usual. Where's the army? Linda Merle

Hi John, a couple ideas come to mind. Street directories is one. http://streetdirectories.proni.gov.uk/ and http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ You can also check the FHL, but these two above are on line and faster. Also the censuses for 1901 and 1911. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/ I would suggest you first identify the name of your mother's parents, if you have not. Marriage records, obit, death records? They would ID her parents' name. Check immigration records to see if you can get a place of birth. Depending on when they came, they might even give a street address. Donno. These are usually online at Ancestry. Death indexes are on line too, but without some info to tie your mother to these ladies, you won't know which ones you are looking for. Our notion of geography (add in history and current events) in Ireland is notoriously bad. One lady who migrated in the 1980s, I think it was, reported that people were asking her if she had emigrated due to the Potato Famine! And a lot of people are surprised to learn they got cars and credit cards -- not just lots of sheep and pubs <grin>. I once read a hilarious story written by a Brit of some stripe who had situated the story in western Pennsylvania. The sagebrush was blowing down the street, the rattle snakes were rattling away, and the cowboys were facing off on main street. And I had a coworker, when I lived in southern California, who had a Chinese cousin phone her up and ask her to pick her up at the San Francisco airport, unaware it was not exactly local (8 hour drive, at least). Well, I'm heading out to feed the cattle. Hope I don't run into any more rattle snakes today. Oops, here comes some sage brush. Oh, and some Indians, on the warpath as usual. Where's the army? Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "john mcmillan" <yjranch@sti.net> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 11:49:05 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] The Montgomerys of 1718 Linda - My mother was Dorothy Mae Montgomery, born in Butler County, Pa. In the 1930-1940 period, we corresponded with two of my mother's cousins living in Belfast that my mother described as "old maids" I remember them sending Irish calendars at Christmas with black cats symbolizing good luck to the Irish. But don't have any old info or addresses. How do I get some listing of Montgomerys in Belfast in that period of the early 1900's? Thank you for any info. Dr. John R. McMillan P.S/ Oh, I don't think these "old maids" had much education, because when Pearl Harbor attack happened in '41, the cousins wrote to us from Belfast to Penna. and asked if we were anywhere near the "fighting". -----Original Message----- From: lmerle@comcast.net Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 7:35 AM To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [S-I] The Montgomerys of 1718 Thanks! You give hope to us all. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "D H" <hallmark1@utvinternet.com> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 4:24:05 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] The Montgomerys of 1718 This is my one....Hugh Montgomery (1794-1867) who was the second son of Hugh<http://www.lisburn.com/books/volume5-05.JPG> Montgomery (1743-1832) of Benvarden, Co. Antrim, President of Belfast Chamber of Commerce 1802-03 and founder, in 1809, of Montgomery's Bank, forerunner of the Northern Bank On 31/12/2011 08:00, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > We're a lot like our ancestors in that we're really attempting to do what > most would consider impossible. Instead of conquering the wilderness we're > trying to research Scots dirt farmers in the 1700s and earlier in Ireland. > It can be done but it is not easy. > > Have you seen this great website that details the early role of some > Montgomeries in Ulster? > http://www.hamiltonmontgomery1606.com/ > > It is basically the story of two private Scots plantations. > > Linda Merle ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi William, maybe someone else has some ideas. Where you are -- we all are, btw. 1. Find a copy of Ryan "Irish Records" or settle for Fianna's list of resources. Create a large spreadsheet or table for yourself. Then methodically search every source mentioned. Place results in a second table (indexed to the first). Then analyze the results for patterns and clues. 2. Locate and read all local history. You may learn about these in 1. Many of them are not indexed so you have scan the usually thin volumes. 3. Locate and read all histories of churches in the area. Many of these histories are full of names. They are rarely indexed and most are under a hundred pages. The FHL has a huge collection of local history and church histories. WHere do you get their names? Number 1. Also googling on the Internet. Another source is gazettees. There are several on the Internet for Ireland. Note the names of the large landowners, etc, in the area. 4. Search the FHL for church histories and records you can get on microfilm. 5. Research Griffiths and the Tithe Applotments in your area. NOte the names of the landlords that your ancestors lived on. 6. Researdh the estates of the landlords your ancestors lived on. These estate records may contain information on your ancestors. Start with PRONI. 7. Read histories of Ulster such as Bardon's history and Elliott's "Catholics of Ulster". The reason I specifically mention these two is that they will help you find your ancestors. "Their history" and "our history" will help your chest swell and reinforce myths that may but may not be true for your family. 8. Read Falley "Irish and Scotch Irish Ancestral Research". Find and read articles that teach you how to do estate research in IReland. The FHL used to have a large binder of helpful articles. Googling will turn up a few too. Trying to do genealogy in Ireland without learning how isn't as awful as trying to do brain surgery before attending med school, but it can be very frustrating. You think you can't do anything, but you could if you knew a little more. By the same token, learning how to interpret names you find (or don't find) on lists is a critical skill for doing research in Ireland. I attended a couple lectures on the subject. Not the most fascinating lectures on the syllabus -- but they sure did help me out a lot!! It has been said (in some course I took) that with Irish genealogy you should spend 30 percent of your time learning, 30 percent researching how to find records, and only 30 percent actually looking at records. Yet we often, or I at least, feel like if I'm not cranking through film or looking at a record I'm not doing research. Not true, I learned. When I accepted that learning ever more was part of the task and that trying to find things was as well, I did a lot better. Any time you find yourself not knowing what to do next -- it's time to learn something somehow. Serendipity will often lead you to what you need to do next. So we shouldn't hear from you for a few years, right <GRIN>??!!! Seriously, just looking at all the resources listed in Ryan will cheer you up. Land records probably won't do much for you. In Irish genealogy, unless your ancestors were well off, they're the last resort. Why? Most Irish didn't own land. Why do you think they all left? If you think land records will help you, it's a sign to me that you need to take another look at your basic Irish genealogy in book or class form. Second reason they're the last is that they are very poorly indexed. And they are hand written. Most likely you've not trained in reading the old handwriting. If you are like my mother and most sof the rest of us, this won't stop you at all <grin>. You can get books to help. Just be aware it is tedious and could make you postal <grin>! What can be buried in the land records are memorials and also deeds that list all the major tenants. These names won't show up in the indexes so you have to read all the deeds in your area. This is the postal part <grin>. You can get them on microfilm and spread the misery out for a month by reading at your FHL. So it is worth it to read these but usually not today. Plus all the data you gathered before will help you spot critical clues. I fyou don't know who their landlords were, you're flying blind in a storm with no radar. There's a lot to do, but much of it is not anything you really learned from doing American genealogy. You tend to need to learn special strategies for Irish genealogy. It has been said it is a lot like doing slave genealogy -- very indirect -- because your ancestor's records, if any exist, are hidden in the records of others. You must figure out who those others are. If your Montgomeries were better off, you stand more of a likelihood to find traces of them. Id say in wills, but many don't survive. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "WJMontgomery" <wjmntgmry@comcast.net> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, January 1, 2012 11:49:03 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] The Montgomerys of 1718 Thanks to all, and Happy New Year! The website about Hamilton and Montgomery of 1606 is enlightening and most informative. I have referred to and quoted from it often. I have seen Mullin's Muster Roll of ca 1630, the Hearth Money Roll ca 1663 and Pyke's Survey of 1725 and have found the names mentioned but have found those possibilities to be "end of the road", until perhaps finding "directions signs" here. Alsop's of 1765 would be about 120 years after William b 1675's grandfather John's ca 1645 birth. John would have remained in Ireland in 1718 being about the age of 65 when he saw his son and grandson's leave for America. But John's "remaining behind" is an assumption. Until recently, I believed John's son Robert b ca 1660 to have remained behind, too, which was found to be wrong. Another assumption is that John's line in Ireland ended with his sons and families and descendants leaving for America. But then, perhaps not all his children emigrated, and another son named John stayed behind and is the John mentioned in Pyke's Survey(??). So many possibilities in this "forest" of Montgomerys. The line goes as such, as has been "built", to date: John b ca 1645, m Isabella Shaw (perhaps finding the Shaws may help?) Robert b ca 1660, m Mary McCullom (perhaps finding the McCulloms may help?) William b ca 1675, m 1695 Mary Aiken (perhaps finding the Aikens may help?) James b Ireland 1702, m 1732 Mary Henry in Massachusetts Land records for Garvagh and Aghadowey? Church (Presbyterian) records in either town area? (William was one of 14 founders of Christ Church, the Presbyterian Church of Hopkinton, Massachusetts, in the year 1724.) William J. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lunney Family" <jglunney@eircom.net> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] The Montgomerys of 1718 > The Rev Hugh Mullin's book on Aghadowey a parish and its linen > industry gives the Muster Roll on Ironmongers estate ca 1630 (ie > including some townlands of Aghadowey). There is a Robert Mungomery > The Hearth Money Roll indexed in same book has Alexander Montgomery > in "Bellbrillen" presumably Ballybrittan ca 1663 > Pyke's 1725 survey of tenants has John Montgomery in Bwalla O'Cahane. > Not all townlands are extant in this survey, and it's after your > Montgomerys left anyhow > 1765 Alsop's survey Ballicaan John McGomery > No Montgomerys in Balybrittan or Ballycahan in 1833 Tithe Applotment > Survey > > Linde L > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Long may you also have plenty of wood to keep your chimney smoking cheerfully, too, Colin. And a happy new year to you from New Hampshire USA. Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin McCallum" <Colmac@colinmccallum.plus.com> To: <scotland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 7:43 PM Subject: [S-I] 2012 > My I wish all listers "A Happy and Prosperous New Year" > > Not forgetting the Auld Edinburgh New Year Greeting, > > "Lang May Your Lum Reek" > > Yours as Aye, > > Colin McCalum, A Scot far from home. > >>From a damp Northern Ireland or Norn I'ron. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Now is the time to revisit old friends that we may not have visited for a while..checking for any new issues!! We may have checked DIPPAM, PRONI, for example, and found a bit or two BUT a lot may have been put up since....it can be beneficial to recheck sites at least annually! Just because one may have checked a site this time last year and found nothing doesn't mean there is nothing to be found now!

"Lang may your lum reek." Any explanations please?? Kerry Genealogy Nut Looking for these families: Abernathy/Abernethy, Adams, Brooks, Graham, Hartwig, Hicks, Key, McClendon, Knierim, Johnson, Latta/Latty, Legg,Travis, Twitty (Grahams are SI from SC>TN>AL>TX) > From: rosiedoggie@myfairpoint.net > To: Colmac@colinmccallum.plus.com; scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 17:11:33 -0500 > Subject: Re: [S-I] 2012 > > Long may you also have plenty of wood to keep your chimney smoking > cheerfully, too, Colin. And a happy new year to you from New Hampshire USA. > Marilyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Colin McCallum" <Colmac@colinmccallum.plus.com> > To: <scotland@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 7:43 PM > Subject: [S-I] 2012 > > > > My I wish all listers "A Happy and Prosperous New Year" > > > > Not forgetting the Auld Edinburgh New Year Greeting, > > > > "Lang May Your Lum Reek" > > > > Yours as Aye, > > > > Colin McCalum, A Scot far from home. > > > >>From a damp Northern Ireland or Norn I'ron. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

LOL....... absolutely not!! Even the connection to the Leslies of Castle Leslie is complicated enough...all the way though so many families even down to Oscar Wilde..across to Beaulieu.which then goes back to Narrow Water Halls Because of all the intermarriages between the FEW families they are virtually cousins marrying cousins, be they first/second/third cousins..even removed first/second/third cousins....not to mention the men who took their bride's surnames like Archdale....I'm only after the Montgomeries who married the Swans to get the Swan(n)s, (yes, a few of these!!)..and Swanns married Leslies etc too. It is enough to even confuse the memory on a computer!!! familytreemaker? no you'd need familyforestmaker....... :-)) Anyway...10 minutes in Land Registry would easily answer the question about who sold/had to sell it...even to verify Cassie existed if it was her that sold it...!! Re: [S-I] The Montgomerys of 1718...Ballydrain /Date:/ Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:39:33 +0000 /References:/ <mailman.537.1325404854.3386.scotch-irish@rootsweb.com><4F006715.1020308@utvinternet.com> /In-Reply-To:/ <4F006715.1020308@utvinternet.com> Yes, sources say he had no children, but I think Cassandra was his daughter; perhaps illegitimate, or perhaps not? His wife is said to have met her death by a shock (of creditors who attacked him as he came into his own house) when she was pregnant, and I suppose it is possible that she went into premature labour and the baby survived to become Cassandra Hardy; who seems to have inherited , or at least was definitely living in Benvarden in the 1790s. Whether it was she and her husband who benefited from the sale or whether it all or mostly went to pay off John's creditors I don't know. Some sources talk about McNaghten jesting about an old prophecy about the downfall of the family, and perhaps or possibly that is why he would have named his daughter Cassandra, which is a very uncommon name If you are interested in the Donegal Montgomerys, Helen Meehan is an expert on them

Yes Google is different depending on where one lives. I posted this here on 8th Dec http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Scotch-Irish/2011-12/1323303711 If one is in Oz or USA ETC THE DEFAULT IS GOOGLE.COM BUT WWW.GOOGLE.IE GETS RESEARCHERS FOR IRISH STUFF MUCH BETTER RESULTS!! so all one has to do is type in www.google.ie....then search. Looking at queries posted here and on other boards I often ask myself "Why they do not GOOGLE stuff??" then I realized they don't know that a massive amount of stuff is on the IRISH GOOGLE that is not on GOOGLE.COM or .AU etc.... MANY MANY of the recent posts here could be easily answered simply by the poster going to www.google.ie!!!! On 01/01/2012 08:00, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Re: [S-I] SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 6, Issue 329 > To:<scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID:<23021B9BAE1F441BABFF99D578A8992B@MargaretPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanks for this. I didn't know that Ireland had its own Google search > engine! > > Margaret

Sorry that came from http://www.archive.org/stream/historicalaccoun04olav/historicalaccoun04olav_djvu.txt but obviously it is inaccurate as he did have a daughter who married Hardy and I'd posted before I put this in!! BUT I PRESUME the sale date SHOULD be accurate...(?) Hugh Montgomery would be the one who could clarify this mystery if you email him. DH On 01/01/2012 14:00, D H wrote: > All I know is that Benvarden was bought by Hugh Montgomery in 1797..Montgomeries still live there! > > "On the death of John Macnaghten, in 1761 who left no children the Benvarden property was sold...." but not bought by Hugh Montgomery until 1797!! > > > > On 01/01/2012 08:00, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: >> Re: [S-I] The Montgomerys of 1718 >> To:scotch-irish@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID:<509DC7F9-C3A8-4A80-85D7-99206234CDEE@eircom.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed >> >> Hugh d, 1832 was the Montgomery who was known as "Split-fig >> Montgomery". I'd like to know if he bought Benvarden from Cassandra >> McNaghten Hardy, daughter of the famous "half-hanged McNaghten" or if >> Cassandra had to sell and then Montgomery bought it from the >> intermediary. Do you know the date he bought Benvarden? the Hardys >> were in financial difficulties in 1791 >> >> Linde L >>

Yes, sources say he had no children, but I think Cassandra was his daughter; perhaps illegitimate, or perhaps not? His wife is said to have met her death by a shock (of creditors who attacked him as he came into his own house) when she was pregnant, and I suppose it is possible that she went into premature labour and the baby survived to become Cassandra Hardy; who seems to have inherited , or at least was definitely living in Benvarden in the 1790s. Whether it was she and her husband who benefited from the sale or whether it all or mostly went to pay off John's creditors I don't know. Some sources talk about McNaghten jesting about an old prophecy about the downfall of the family, and perhaps or possibly that is why he would have named his daughter Cassandra, which is a very uncommon name If you are interested in the Donegal Montgomerys, Helen Meehan is an expert on them

All I know is that Benvarden was bought by Hugh Montgomery in 1797..Montgomeries still live there! "On the death of John Macnaghten, in 1761 who left no children the Benvarden property was sold...." but not bought by Hugh Montgomery until 1797!! The land was originally leased in 1636 to Daniel MacNaghten by Lord Antrim . A descendant,.. John MacNaghten was hanged in 1761 for shooting wealthy heiress Mary Anne Knox of Prehen while trying to abduct her. At his execution the rope broke, in a vain attempt to avoid being forever remembered as ‘Half-hanged MacNaghten’, he climbed the scaffold for a second attempt but the nickname stuck... http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=AS18750529.2.21&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0-- has the hanging etc... John, married a Miss M'Manus, and died when his son, also named John was only about six years of age. This boy when at school in Dublin became addicted to gambling, which finally led to his ruin ; he was compelled to sell a part of his estate and mortgage the remainder. After the death of his wife he induced Miss Knox, of Prehen, an heiress in her own right, to read over with him the marriage ceremony and then claimed her as his wife. Mr. Knox was removing his daughter to Dublin on the 10th of November, 1760, when Macnaghten accompanied by a servant and two tenants attacked the carriage near Strabane, for the purpose, as he alleged, of rescuing his wife. Several shots were fired on both sides, when Macnagten who was wounded rushed forward, and firing at Mr. Knox, accidently killed Mrs. Knox. Two hours after the murder Macnaughten was taken, and his unfortunate tenant, and associate in crime, Dunlap, was caught in a house in Ballyboggy, near Benvarden, but the others escaped. The both were executed at Lifford. On the death of John Macnaghten, who left no children the Benvarden property was sold....but who sold it to Hugh M????? The Macnaghtens of Dunderave, descend from Edmond of Beardiville (the uncle of the last John of Benvardin); he was born in 1679, and lived to the age of 102. The Macnaghtens of Scotland elected his eldest son, Edmond Alexander, of Beardiville, and his heirs to the chieftanship of their clan, and the patent conferring this dignity was registered A.D. 1832, in the Heralds Office. On the death of Edmund Alexander in 1832, the estates passed to his brother, Sir Francis Workman, who, in 1809, received the honour of knighthood, on being appointed a Judge of the Supreme Court of Judicature of Madras, and was created a baronet in 1836. He married in 1787, the daughter of Sir William Dunkin, of Clogher, near Bushmills, sometime a Judge of the Supreme Court of Judicature at Calcutta. The honours conferred on Sir Francis Workman Macnaughten have descended through his son to his grandson, the third and present baronet. On 01/01/2012 08:00, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Re: [S-I] The Montgomerys of 1718 > To:scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Message-ID:<509DC7F9-C3A8-4A80-85D7-99206234CDEE@eircom.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Hugh d, 1832 was the Montgomery who was known as "Split-fig > Montgomery". I'd like to know if he bought Benvarden from Cassandra > McNaghten Hardy, daughter of the famous "half-hanged McNaghten" or if > Cassandra had to sell and then Montgomery bought it from the > intermediary. Do you know the date he bought Benvarden? the Hardys > were in financial difficulties in 1791 > > Linde L >

Thanks to all, and Happy New Year! The website about Hamilton and Montgomery of 1606 is enlightening and most informative. I have referred to and quoted from it often. I have seen Mullin's Muster Roll of ca 1630, the Hearth Money Roll ca 1663 and Pyke's Survey of 1725 and have found the names mentioned but have found those possibilities to be "end of the road", until perhaps finding "directions signs" here. Alsop's of 1765 would be about 120 years after William b 1675's grandfather John's ca 1645 birth. John would have remained in Ireland in 1718 being about the age of 65 when he saw his son and grandson's leave for America. But John's "remaining behind" is an assumption. Until recently, I believed John's son Robert b ca 1660 to have remained behind, too, which was found to be wrong. Another assumption is that John's line in Ireland ended with his sons and families and descendants leaving for America. But then, perhaps not all his children emigrated, and another son named John stayed behind and is the John mentioned in Pyke's Survey(??). So many possibilities in this "forest" of Montgomerys. The line goes as such, as has been "built", to date: John b ca 1645, m Isabella Shaw (perhaps finding the Shaws may help?) Robert b ca 1660, m Mary McCullom (perhaps finding the McCulloms may help?) William b ca 1675, m 1695 Mary Aiken (perhaps finding the Aikens may help?) James b Ireland 1702, m 1732 Mary Henry in Massachusetts Land records for Garvagh and Aghadowey? Church (Presbyterian) records in either town area? (William was one of 14 founders of Christ Church, the Presbyterian Church of Hopkinton, Massachusetts, in the year 1724.) William J. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lunney Family" <jglunney@eircom.net> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] The Montgomerys of 1718 > The Rev Hugh Mullin's book on Aghadowey a parish and its linen > industry gives the Muster Roll on Ironmongers estate ca 1630 (ie > including some townlands of Aghadowey). There is a Robert Mungomery > The Hearth Money Roll indexed in same book has Alexander Montgomery > in "Bellbrillen" presumably Ballybrittan ca 1663 > Pyke's 1725 survey of tenants has John Montgomery in Bwalla O'Cahane. > Not all townlands are extant in this survey, and it's after your > Montgomerys left anyhow > 1765 Alsop's survey Ballicaan John McGomery > No Montgomerys in Balybrittan or Ballycahan in 1833 Tithe Applotment > Survey > > Linde L > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >