McKENZIE ~ O'NEIL ~ SULLIVAN ~ SHEEHAN ~ MADDEN ~ DONOVAN DALEY ~ McINTIRE ~ McKENNA ~ McCARTHY ~ McLEOD ~ KENNY ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Greetings Folks , Hope your enjoying the great spring weather. Essential info all on 1st portion of page 1. Looking for listers who can share ship list place name "Ballymoney" (place of residence) Ireland to America via Liverpool, Eng c. 1895. Particularly interested in which Ballymoney (several in Ire) it turned out to be. Good luck and all the best with your family search . . . kind regards, Walt McKenzie-NJ-USA WaltIrish@comcast.net www.remember-9-11.com *************************************************************** " Due to immigration, after the 1840's Ireland famine, over 33% of Boston's population were from Ireland & Scotland. By 1870 2.5 million, 1900 over 40% and 5 million today are of Irish ancestors." Ireland 7 million Irish Descent : America 50 million ~ Britain 8 million ~ Australia 3 million Canada ? million 1872-1971 Grandpa Walt McKENZIE, Sr. NJ Shore, USA (b. Boston/Somerville*, MA) *Som. in Middlesex Co. has the most of Irish descent with 400,000. Search priorities : Ire ~ Eng ~ Scot 1681-1895 1873-1907 To 1680 " The marvelous Central NJ Shore area, like Boston, has wonderful Ireland & Scotland roots. The first St. Patrick's holiday was declared 3 / 17 / 1780 by General Washington in Morristown, NJ. Kerny, NJ has a large well-known Scottish community. In 2000, Spring Lake, NJ population was 53% of Irish descent followed by Avon & Sea Girt. Then there is the large annual Belmar, NJ St. Patty's Day parade. Today overall, NJ has 1.4 million or 18% of the population claiming to be of Irish descent." **************************************************************** -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.18 - Release Date: 4/19/2005

Pat Banks wrote: >Sorry. Forgot to say that there was a large Cornish settlement in the >southern areas of Ireland, around Avoca and Bantry Bay. I believe that, in >one of these areas, the old miners' cottages are now being used as holiday >homes. > >Cheers > >Pat > > >Pat Banks >Perth Western Australia > > > thats an interesting one. any traces of the Cornish language down there?

Perplexed wrote: > Would appreciate advice on whether Whiteford is listed in George > Fraser Black's book. > > I have Whitefords in Argyll Sco in the 1840s but the census indicates > they were all born in Ireland. Listers to the Argyll board have > indicated there were a number of Whiteford families in Campbeltown > involved in fishing and they were all from Antrim. > > Many thanks for any advice. > > Anne Whiteford > could be they moved from scotland to ulster and then back again as the presbyterians were getting hard time of it around the late 1700`s early 1800`s from the Anglo-Irish ascendency (Anglican)

kevin malikowski paula talbot wrote: >I am having much trouble searching the surname Mitchell. Does Mitchell seem to be a Scotch/Irish name??? > >I can only get as far as 1799 when James Mitchell was born in Alleghany Co. Pa. Being this was a large Scotch/Irish area I am thinking this is the way to direct my research. > >I have been stuck on this family for yrs. and yrs. Any suggestions?? > >Thank you, Paula > > > > Lots of Mitchells here in Northern Ireland and in Scotland too...no doubt largely Presbyterian.

Thank you! ! Rice's Fort was where my Philabaum & Leffler's were and I do have the "account" by Raymond Bell but always enjoy reading another's version. Antoinette (Tacoma, Washington) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:08 PM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Surnames from Frontier Forts > Hi folks, > > On line and free is a report on frontier forts in Pennsylvania: > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pa/1pa/1picts/frontierforts/ff33.html > > Lots of names! > > Linda Merle > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net > > > > > > >

Hi folks, On line and free is a report on frontier forts in Pennsylvania: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pa/1pa/1picts/frontierforts/ff33.html Lots of names! Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

The persistent legend that ministers led their entire congregations to America in the 18th century has some basis, but even in the few documented instances the congregation continued to function so even in those cases ministers took some families, but not all families, from their former congregation. What led a Presbyterian minister to leave his church in Ulster and travel across an ocean? There is ample documentation that he frequently left for the same reasons that convinced a farmer or weaver to pull up stakes. He couldn't support his family where he was because his congregation could not or would not provide the stipend they had agreed on. For many ministers emigration was a personal choice for economic reasons, rather than a solution to broader problems shared by the entire congregation. One might think that all the passengers on the George from Londonderry to Philadelphia in 1769 were led by the Rev. Joseph Rhea, whose name heads the list, but his diary does not give the impression that he even knew any of them. His son recalled years later that a young lady named Frances Dysart, a relative of his mother's, came with them. He does not suggest that there were others. [Billy Kennedy, The Scots-Irish in the Hills of Tennessee (Belfast, 1995), 146-152 has a good account of this family, including the Rev. Joseph Rhea's letter to the Presbytery of Londonderry, resigning as minister at Fahan, Co. Donegal after twenty years "as the congregation has fallen into long arrears and has been very deficient in the original promise to me which was 24 pounds yearly."] The memoir written by his son John Rhea about his family is an eye-opener about a more common factor in emigration, what is often called chain-migration. A surprising number of his relatives (most with different surnames) found their way to America before and after his immediate family emigrated. Far from landing alone and friendless in a strange land, the emigrants from Ulster commonly stayed with a brother-in-law in Philadelphia until they could go to a cousin in Lancaster County or a nephew in Carlisle and later move near to a sister in Washington County or a brother in Tennessee. All the best, Richard

I'm coming in late on this, so don't know who "he" is or what the context. Eighteenth-century Dublin newspapers, of which there were a great many, often short-lived, carried shipping news less regularly than the American papers did and also published paid advertisements for passengers for ships sailing to various ports. Nearly all the surviving newspapers were microfilmed years ago and can be consulted in large reference libraries - a tedious and not always rewarding process. Audrey Lockhart, Some Aspects of Emigration from Ireland to the North American Colonies Between 1660 and 1775 (NY, 1976) has lists of ships (in an appendix, pp. 175-208) based largely on Dublin newspapers and serving as a kind of index to the originals. Since these are nearly all vessels sailing from Dublin, rather than northern ports, you will not get much help with Ulster emigrants -- and, of course, even a notice that a ship "sailed with passengers for Philadelphia" will tell no more than that, no names. All the best, Richard

Hi folks, to follow on with Dr. McMaster's post, there is Agnew's book "Belfast Merchant Families in the SEventeenth Century". Where to find? LIbraries and bookstores. The genealogical appendixes (NOT indexed) are abstracted and in the archives of this list. (www.rootsweb.com, scroll to Mail Lists, click on Interactive Search, type in Scotch-Irish (SPELLING COUNTS) and search. I can't recall the year...not last, maybe 2002??? (If anyone finds, let us know!!) Also "Ulster Emigration to Colonial America 1718-1775" by R J Dickson ... well, covers the topic <grin>. Lastly folks reading these books will learn that in those days ships were small. They did NOT book point to point trips. They could put in along the coast about anywhere, or wait offshore while someone transported some cargo to or from in small boats. Ships often picked up people in both Ireland and Scotland on a single trip, and would stop at every 'port' to use the term very losely on Ireland. They would head up around the coast from Dublin, maybe cross the **** TWELVE MILES **** (think: close!) to Scotland and dump some cargo or pick up more on any shoreline where you could again put in small boat, and then head around Ireland's northshore, down the coast, and after filling up with water and food at Cork, cross the Pond. This is well documented. Among other sources the diary of the Rev. Charles Clinton Beatty documents his journey on just such a ship in 1729. By the time they got to Cork people were already sick from the measles and the smart ones jumped ship. A third died in the crossing in cluding the Rev's father, my ancestor, and four other family members. (It was a very bad crossing!). Also you should read Bailyn's books 'The Peopling of British North America" and "Voyagers to the West" if you hope to understand shipping and immigration. "Voyagers to the West" won a Pulitzer. You can find these books at your local library or buy a copy at www.amazon.com or your local Borders. The index to the Belfast Newsletter is free on line (see our website: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~merle or google) and it has advertisements and letters of successful migrants. Also see www.genealogy.com/university.html for a free course on immigration research. The methods the courses teach WORK because they rely on records that exist. Best of luck! Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: RKMacmaster@aol.com Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:29:02 EDT >I'm coming in late on this, so don't know who "he" is or what the context. > >Eighteenth-century Dublin newspapers, of which there were a great many, often >short-lived, carried shipping news less regularly than the American papers >did and also published paid advertisements for passengers for ships sailing to >various ports. > >Nearly all the surviving newspapers were microfilmed years ago and can be >consulted in large reference libraries - a tedious and not always rewarding >process. > >Audrey Lockhart, Some Aspects of Emigration from Ireland to the North >American Colonies Between 1660 and 1775 (NY, 1976) has lists of ships (in an >appendix, pp. 175-208) based largely on Dublin newspapers and serving as a kind of >index to the originals. > >Since these are nearly all vessels sailing from Dublin, rather than northern >ports, you will not get much help with Ulster emigrants -- and, of course, >even a notice that a ship "sailed with passengers for Philadelphia" will tell no >more than that, no names. > >All the best, >Richard > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi to the list Is anyone familiar with the below information? Thank you Richard L. Brown George Campbell, son of Gilbert and Prudence, and who married Agness McClure, had a will probated in Woodford County Ky., 7 feb 1814...I posted that on one of the Woodford County sites. Was piecemealing his family, as I was actually trying to get some information of all of Gilbert and Prudence's children. I stem from the first son, James, older brother to George. Gilbert's will is in Augusta Co Wills. George's daughters, Nancy and Prudence married Kirkham brothers, Michael and Samuel. Janet married John Armstrong, and Mary married George Vineyard (you had said)...There is a marriage of a Gilbert Campbell to Mary Crawford and I wondered if he is a son of George and Agness. And there is a marriage of a Samuel L. Campbell to a Mary Crawford 1797 and I wonder if this is also the son of George and Agness. Just would like to get the origional Gilbert and Prudence Campbell's children's lines completed. George Campbell, is supposed to have been born in Virginia State, coming of an old Scotch family. He removed from there to Kentucky in 1796 and was a pioneer of Woodford County. He was well educated for those days and taught school. For many years he was afflicted with rheumatism and was unable to perform any manual labor. He bought a tract of land near Versailles, and there his declining years were spent. The maiden name of his wife was Nancy McClure, and she was also a native of Virginia. Besides his homestead he bought a large tract of land in Boone County, on which some of his children settled. Samuel Campbell, Sr., was nineteen years old when his father moved to Kentucky. I am interested in finding Agnes Nancy McClure who married George Washington Campbell about 1765 in Rockbridge Co. VA. Their daughter was Elizabeth Campbell born Feb. 15, 1768 in Rockbridge Co. VA. Agnes would have been born during the 1740's or earlier.

Hi, I wonder if anyone has any info on our family who came from Antrim, We were there and saw the farm Cornelius Glass came from (no family there now) in Liznagornac (sp. My dictionary does not have that name), but we have very little info on Elizabeth McCollum. We visited the town they lived in in New York, and were told there that she had two brothers who served in the civil war. They even had a map showing where the Glass farm was there. We know Cornelius was a member of the blue lodge and when he joined all the officers were named Glass. Elizabeth was from a town that starts with a C. Any info will be welcome. JoAnn Glass

>Re a 4/13 email from Lyndal Maxwell at msn.com: > >Can anyone help me to know how he "checked the Dublin newspaper list of >ships." > >Thanks, >Karen

Hello Jim, The surname navigator at /www.rat.de/kuijsten/navigator/ will be useful for the unusual surnames in your list. ARMSTRONGS were originally a reiver family from the England/Scotland borderlands who were forced to move to County Fermanagh, in the main, so look at FERMANAGH-GOLD-L@rootsweb.com and www.fermanagh.org.uk where there is a surname search section. www.reivers.com will give you some history. freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland/index1.html is the official website for the County Tyrone mailing list. You will find WASON and WASSON entries in the search box. There are also people looking for TONER so the name in the subject space will attract their attention or you can get their name from the mailing list archives at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/NIR/CoTyroneIreland.html. Rob Doragh Liverpool UK James R. Baker, Jr. <jim@jrbakerjr.com>Subject: To Philadelphia 1700s Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 From what I've read, most of Ulster Scots (Scotch-Irish) who came to America in mid 1700's came in groups. group usually consisted of related families who were a Presbyterian Church congregation led by the Minister. probably looking for origin and other info for a group came to Philadelphia 1745-1781 with some or all of following surnames: Baker, Wasson (Wason), Bennett, Knox, Robeson, Armstrong, possibly, Bonar (Bonner), Spillman, Toner, Erskine (Askey) and/or Garrison. Jim

Hello All, Maria DORAGH, my gg-aunty, was born near Castlederg, Tyrone, in 1874. She was in Canada by the early 1900s. She married William LA FLOOR (written as such on their gravestone but it was probably LA FLEUR originally) about 1905 and had two daughters. She is remembered by my uncle and older relatives because she sent food parcels to my father and uncle's family during World War 2 when things were pretty bad. She died in 1949 and is buried in Nepean, Ottawa with her husband. I would like to find out when she arrived in Canada (or the US, I don't know where she landed) and on what ship. I've gone cross-eyed searching ships' lists so any help will be gratefully received. I'm also looking for the same type of information on a distant cousin from the Omagh area, Robert DORAGH. He was born about 1865 and was in Olympia, Washington State by the early 1890s. He was a telephone engineer and died in 1922. Again, I'd like to know where and when he arrived in North America. One odd thing is that Robert is an unusual name in England in my family but it is the most common man's name in Ireland in the family. DORAGH was probably DARRAGH originally and it is also spelt as DORRAGH in Tyrone. As far as I know we have nothing to do with similar names in Antrim. Rob Doragh Liverpool UK

Hello Paula. Greetings from a fellow-lister, faraway in South Africa, and a real Mitchell to boot. Yes, your Mitchell's are most probably Scotch-Irish. It is quite true that there are many English Mitchell's and also a village called Mitchell in Cornwall. However, Mitchell is also a Scottish surname, and at one stage was about 20th on the list of popular occurrence in Scotland. It is found in all four provinces of Ireland, being both from a Gaelic-Catholic-"native Irish" origin (translation of O'Maolmicheille) and of an Ulster-Scot plantation origin. And many "English" Mitchell's in the 1880 UK census were actually born in (or traceable to) Ireland or Scotland. From the names James and Thomas, and being in the Alleghany area, I would think it more likely that your family has an Ulster origin. Talking Pennsylvania, a Scotch-Irish Canadian, Alexander Mitchell -- born in Nova Scotia in 1828 -- became a well-known Pennsylvanian railroad locomotive engineer. He designed the "Consolidation" to pull the heavy coal trains over the Appalachians, and died in Wilkes-Barre in 1908. His father? Dr Samuel Mitchell of Wallace, Cumberland County, NS, born in Londonderry, Ireland, and trained at Glasgow University, in Scotland. I am sending you off list an article that I wrote for my own family on Rev. James Young Mitchell of Philadelphia and Lancaster, (his father was James Mitchell of Philadelphia, born Londonderry, Ireland) and I look forward to hearing more about your quest. Sincere regards Dave Mitchell Cape Town _

I wondering if you can tell me how the Linen Hall Library is set up? Is a card or anything else required? We leave in 2 weeks and looking forward to a great trip. Thanks for your help. Sarah

Linda, I have been faithfully watching this listserve for the past two years, hoping that I might see the McCreary surname mentioned. After watching this week's comments, I can't remain silent any longer! I have been working on the McCreary line for the past 6 years, but have not been able to get any further than early tax records for our men in Centre Co., PA in 1801. I know the name is Scots Irish, as my grandmother was adamant about this, but have been unable to find much info on the name in Ireland or Scotland. I do find the name listed in Griffith's, and was wondering if you could look it up in the sources that you have been citing from this week. I have found various spellings such as; McCrearey, McCreery, McKreery. Our men can to America in their early 20's around the year 1790. The original 5 brothers were; Thomas, Samuel, William, Joseph, and John. These brothers are not to be confused with the McCreary clan living in Lancaster Co., PA in the mid 1700's. I have be! en under the assumption that our sept was part of the MacQuarrie Clan in the Western Isles of Scotland. Can you shed any light on this? Any and all information would be most gratefully appreciated!! Many Thanks! Laurie Ketron plketron2@cablespeed.com

I have John McCreary (dates unknown) of Westmoreland County PA whose daughter Mary (1802-1864) married Joseph Geiger (1791-1855) on July 4, 1822 in Franklin Township, Westmoreland County PA. Joseph is buried at Hill's Church, Murrysville, Westmoreland County PA. No memorial inscription has been found at this cemetery for Mary McCreary Geiger. Joseph and Mary McCreary Geiger had nine children: Mary, Caroline, Nancy, Sarai L., Rebecca, Lewis, Joseph, Elizabeth and Esther. Sarai L. (1832-1900) married Francis Nesbitt (1828-1891) on May 5, 1853 at Mansfield, Richland County OH. ----- Original Message ----- From: "L-P Ketron" <plketron2@cablespeed.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 2:54 PM Subject: [Sc-Ir] McCreary Surname > Linda, > > I have been faithfully watching this listserve for the past two years, > hoping that I might see the McCreary surname mentioned. After watching > this week's comments, I can't remain silent any longer! I have been > working on the McCreary line for the past 6 years, but have not been able > to get any further than early tax records for our men in Centre Co., PA in > 1801. I know the name is Scots Irish, as my grandmother was adamant about > this, but have been unable to find much info on the name in Ireland or > Scotland. I do find the name listed in Griffith's, and was wondering if > you could look it up in the sources that you have been citing from this > week. I have found various spellings such as; McCrearey, McCreery, > McKreery. Our men can to America in their early 20's around the year > 1790. The original 5 brothers were; Thomas, Samuel, William, Joseph, and > John. These brothers are not to be confused with the McCreary clan living > in Lancaster Co., PA in the mid 1700's. I have be! > en under the assumption that our sept was part of the MacQuarrie Clan in > the Western Isles of Scotland. Can you shed any light on this? Any and > all information would be most gratefully appreciated!! > > Many Thanks! > Laurie Ketron > plketron2@cablespeed.com > > >

Since we are talking about the McCreary family today does anyone know anything about who might be the parents of Charity McCreary b. 1761??? She married Evan Holt. Karon Dyer-Scoville-Willson-Luckey -----Original Message----- From: Linda Merle [mailto:merle@mail.fea.net] Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 1:52 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] McCreary Surname Hi Laurie, >I know the name is Scots Irish, as my grandmother was adamant about this, but have been unable to find much info on the name in Ireland or Scotland. ?? Actually almost any of these Mc names can be either or more likely both. Since Scotland and Ireland are at one point 12 miles apart anything in the one can be in the other. I wonder if many years your grandmother spent studying records? I hate to tell ya, please forgive, but grandmothers aren't always right. She gave you a clue. Her adamancy was the result of her ethnicity. Most like she had no documents proving where the family came and had done no research. So she is not an authoritative source but it's a strong clue. > I do find the name listed in Griffith's, and was wondering if >you could look it up in the sources that you have been citing >from this week. If you check IGI you will find it in Scotland as well. Twelve miles is not far. Here's some of IGI: 98. Aron <MACREARY> - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: <Male> Birth: 21 DEC 1633 Dublin, Dublin, Ireland 99. ABBEY JANE MC CREERY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Birth: 26 SEP 1870 , Armagh, Ireland 100. Adam MCcrery - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Birth: About 1610 Earldom Of Kildare, , Down, Ireland 101. ADAM MCCREARY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Birth: 25 OCT 1866 0128, Galgorm, Antrim, Ireland 102. Adalade Caroline Lillie McCreery - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Birth: 04 FEB 1878 , Antrim, Ireland 103. AGNES MC CRIRIE - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Marriage: 23 AUG 1692 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland 104. AGNES M'CRERY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 01 JUL 1722 Carnmoney, Antrim, Ireland 105. Agnes MC CREARY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Birth: 1728 , , Ireland 106. AGNES MC CRERIE - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 30 MAR 1735 Presbyterian, Carnmoney, Antrim, Ireland 107. Agnas MCCREERY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 30 JAN 1737 Barr By Girvan,Ayrshire, Strathclyde, Lanark, Scotland 108. AGNAS MCCREERY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 30 JAN 1737 Barr By Girvan, Ayr, Scotland 109. AGNES MCCRERY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 1740 Whithorn, Wigtown, Scotland 110. AGNES MC CRERIE - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 07 DEC 1752 Carnmoney Presbyterian, Carnmoney, Antrim, Ireland See what I mean??? Twelve miles. Black "Surnames of Scotland" is a scientific book. If you read the front matter (book IS in a library near you; it's all over), you will learn the methodology he used to compile his book. Basically he consulted written records. His book identifies the source of the name as well as the place. It does not speculate on 'septs'. Esp. in Scotland it's highly likely that even highlanders are not related to the clan whose surname they bear. That's because when a new head-clan 'took over' people changed their 'surname' to the new clan. Other times people adopted the name of the protector clan to signify that they were under its protection. Again, read the front essay in this book. >en under the assumption that our sept was part of the MacQuarrie Clan in the Western Isles of Scotland. Can you shed any light on this? Any and all information would be most gratefully appreciated!! No! Can't! This isn't a Scottish list -- It's Irish -- that big green island to the west. So for Scottish clans you'll have to look elsewhere. Most Scots never had clans as well, so maybe your's didn't (but if you pay some $$$ you can). As you can see by IGI above, the surname is found in both Scotland and Ireland, not surprisingly. MacLysaght identifies it as the same name I was about to -- Mac Ruidhri (often McRory), a County Tyrone sept. With the Irish septs you are more likely to actually have the blood of the sept according to the sources I've read. The name means Rory's son. There was more than one Rory on the planet. Bell does cover MacCrory and says that it sprang up "in many areas as a simple patronymic" that stuck! Worse, some became Rogers . Even in 1900 Roger was being used interchangabley with several variants around Cavan. He ID's TWO septs in Ulster, a branch of Clan Colla that was in Tyrone but moved to Derry and erenaghts of Machaire Croise in Fermanagh, probably a branch of the Maguires. So he's one over MacLysaght. He says that people with the name in McDonald areas (Antrim) most likely came with them from Scotland as there was a sept of Clan Donald that had a variant of your name. The vowels change VERY fast so the O and E different doesn't matter when researching these surnames. That's covered in Black's essay too. It's very good but he doesn't indulge in speculations on clans but sticks with written records that record the surname's occurance. Often though your first place to check would be a place where the name was pronounced somewhat close to yours. Also if you haven't checked teh 1850 census, you should, as it asked where your grandparants were born. Maybe they were all born state side but that alone would allow you to estimate when they came and wherether you need to widen your variant- search or look for locales in Ulster where the surname was used. I also wonder if it's a McGregor surname? Anyone know?? These names are SO hard to research. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi Laurie, >I know the name is Scots Irish, as my grandmother was adamant about this, but have been unable to find much info on the name in Ireland or Scotland. ?? Actually almost any of these Mc names can be either or more likely both. Since Scotland and Ireland are at one point 12 miles apart anything in the one can be in the other. I wonder if many years your grandmother spent studying records? I hate to tell ya, please forgive, but grandmothers aren't always right. She gave you a clue. Her adamancy was the result of her ethnicity. Most like she had no documents proving where the family came and had done no research. So she is not an authoritative source but it's a strong clue. > I do find the name listed in Griffith's, and was wondering if >you could look it up in the sources that you have been citing >from this week. If you check IGI you will find it in Scotland as well. Twelve miles is not far. Here's some of IGI: 98. Aron <MACREARY> - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: <Male> Birth: 21 DEC 1633 Dublin, Dublin, Ireland 99. ABBEY JANE MC CREERY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Birth: 26 SEP 1870 , Armagh, Ireland 100. Adam MCcrery - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Birth: About 1610 Earldom Of Kildare, , Down, Ireland 101. ADAM MCCREARY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Birth: 25 OCT 1866 0128, Galgorm, Antrim, Ireland 102. Adalade Caroline Lillie McCreery - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Birth: 04 FEB 1878 , Antrim, Ireland 103. AGNES MC CRIRIE - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Marriage: 23 AUG 1692 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland 104. AGNES M'CRERY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 01 JUL 1722 Carnmoney, Antrim, Ireland 105. Agnes MC CREARY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Birth: 1728 , , Ireland 106. AGNES MC CRERIE - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 30 MAR 1735 Presbyterian, Carnmoney, Antrim, Ireland 107. Agnas MCCREERY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 30 JAN 1737 Barr By Girvan,Ayrshire, Strathclyde, Lanark, Scotland 108. AGNAS MCCREERY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 30 JAN 1737 Barr By Girvan, Ayr, Scotland 109. AGNES MCCRERY - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 1740 Whithorn, Wigtown, Scotland 110. AGNES MC CRERIE - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Female Christening: 07 DEC 1752 Carnmoney Presbyterian, Carnmoney, Antrim, Ireland See what I mean??? Twelve miles. Black "Surnames of Scotland" is a scientific book. If you read the front matter (book IS in a library near you; it's all over), you will learn the methodology he used to compile his book. Basically he consulted written records. His book identifies the source of the name as well as the place. It does not speculate on 'septs'. Esp. in Scotland it's highly likely that even highlanders are not related to the clan whose surname they bear. That's because when a new head-clan 'took over' people changed their 'surname' to the new clan. Other times people adopted the name of the protector clan to signify that they were under its protection. Again, read the front essay in this book. >en under the assumption that our sept was part of the MacQuarrie Clan in the Western Isles of Scotland. Can you shed any light on this? Any and all information would be most gratefully appreciated!! No! Can't! This isn't a Scottish list -- It's Irish -- that big green island to the west. So for Scottish clans you'll have to look elsewhere. Most Scots never had clans as well, so maybe your's didn't (but if you pay some $$$ you can). As you can see by IGI above, the surname is found in both Scotland and Ireland, not surprisingly. MacLysaght identifies it as the same name I was about to -- Mac Ruidhri (often McRory), a County Tyrone sept. With the Irish septs you are more likely to actually have the blood of the sept according to the sources I've read. The name means Rory's son. There was more than one Rory on the planet. Bell does cover MacCrory and says that it sprang up "in many areas as a simple patronymic" that stuck! Worse, some became Rogers . Even in 1900 Roger was being used interchangabley with several variants around Cavan. He ID's TWO septs in Ulster, a branch of Clan Colla that was in Tyrone but moved to Derry and erenaghts of Machaire Croise in Fermanagh, probably a branch of the Maguires. So he's one over MacLysaght. He says that people with the name in McDonald areas (Antrim) most likely came with them from Scotland as there was a sept of Clan Donald that had a variant of your name. The vowels change VERY fast so the O and E different doesn't matter when researching these surnames. That's covered in Black's essay too. It's very good but he doesn't indulge in speculations on clans but sticks with written records that record the surname's occurance. Often though your first place to check would be a place where the name was pronounced somewhat close to yours. Also if you haven't checked teh 1850 census, you should, as it asked where your grandparants were born. Maybe they were all born state side but that alone would allow you to estimate when they came and wherether you need to widen your variant- search or look for locales in Ulster where the surname was used. I also wonder if it's a McGregor surname? Anyone know?? These names are SO hard to research. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net