Edward, I thought I would put this into general list correspondence as it expands on the basics of the Plantation Hi folks. Yes Edward, you are correct of course. Not that the English Parliament/Privy Council were that convinced of the merits or rights of anyone else eg trade bans on Scottish produce and subsequently also in Ulster. It is an interesting point if decisions by the English Parliament were binding on Scotland. I think not until 1707. The English Privy Council approved the principle of Plantation on 29 Sep 1607 but there was far more land than they first realised and two surveys were undertaken that took until 1609 before `allocation of the lands. There was also a minor rebellion in the meantime by disaffected nobles The Plantation was separately announced in Scotland following a letter to the Privy Council there from Sir Alexander Hay of 19 March 1609 which said inter alia the kings will "out of his unspeikable love and tendir affectioun for his ancient subjects, to let Scots partake of the forfeited Irish lands" The implication is that allowing the Scots to join in the Plantation was almost an afterthought. There was real concern that the Scottish `undertakers` may not have the finances to complete all the obligations and were therefore required to obtain sureties . This led in some instances to family groups supporting one another in the enterprise. Another consequence was that the Scots received allocations of 59 estates in 9 baronies amounting to a total of 81,000 acres; in each of the estates however the acreage allocated was less than the English undertakers ( because of the cost to the undertaker).King James also exercised his influence on allocations and many wealthy towns men were rejected in favour of middle ranking lairds with experience in handling landed estates. The nine chief undertakers were all titled and eleven of the ordinary undertakers were also knights of the realm. On the basis that the settlers would have mainly come from the estates of the undertakers the origin of Scottish settlers by County appears to have been : Armagh , Fews barony - East Lothian, Midlothian Cavan, Clankee barony - Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Stirlingshire Cavan, Tullyhunco barony - Dunbartonshire, East Lothian, Midlothian. Donegal , Boylagh and Banagh barony - Ayrshire, Wigtonshire Kirkcudbrightshire. Donegal, Portlough barony - Ayrshire, Dunbartonshire, Lanarkshire, Stirlingshire Fermanagh, Knockninny barony - Fifeshire, Kincardineshire, Kinrosshire Fermanagh, Magheraboy barony - East Lothian, Lanarkshire, Midlothian, Tyrone, Mountjoy barony - Ayrshire, East Lothian, Perthshire Tyrone, Strabane barony - Ayrshire, Berwickshire, Linlithgowshire, Renfrewshire, Perthshire. Until 1615 Scots were terchnically illegal migrants under Irish law dating from Queen mary`s time, this prohibited the Scots from entering the country and it was a felony to marry a Scot.The real dichotomy was that the Scots were technically foreigners until the Union in 1707 although subjects of the `British` King who governed Scotland through a separate Parliament /Estates/Privy Council and unigue Scottish law. The Scottish end of the Plantation of 1610 was commenced by Proclamation on 28 March 1609 in Edinburgh under Scottish law. For this reason Scots settlers were required to take `denization` in order that they could legally own the land they held. Another aspect of the Englishness of the Plantation was the pivotal role of the City of London who were the paymasters and whose Livery Companies (Guilds) were awarded the lands of Derry - hence renamed Londonderry. Thats enough for now. Real detail BUT NOT THE NAMES OF SETTLERS can be found in "The Planatation of Ulster" by Philip Robinson , Gill & McMillan, 1984. ISBN 0-901905-62-3 - this is serious stuff, but very good. If you are looking for some other sound reading there is an excellent book (apart from my own of course !!) - "The Scottish Migration to Ulster in the Reign of James I" by M. Percival Maxwell, Pub. Routledge, Keegan , Paul, 1973. ISBN0-901905-44-5. A complementary book is "Ulster Emigration to Colonial America 1718-1775" Ed R.J Dickson Pub, RKP, 1966. ISBN 901-905-17-8. Phew ! Brian Orr brian@orrnamestudy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Andrews To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 8:10 PM Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Web site - www.irishgenealogy.com Sorry to pick nits. Not English Government, but British King ;-). Scots are extremely allergic to the misuse of the world English. Having said that I agree it is sloppy. I'm not sure of the History in a number of places. Jesuits and the 1641? The 56 years between Wentworth and the Boyne is rather skipped over, and in many ways that was then the SI got their "soul" as a people on the move because they felt threatened (and were they right) Don't know enough about the Colonial period to comment Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Brian Orr [mailto:brian@orrnamestudy.com] Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:50 AM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Sc-Ir] Web site - www.irishgenealogy.com Hi folks Just had a look at the page Linda kindly pointed to . It seems a bit sloppy to me. The Montgomery and Hamilton settlements in Co Down and Antrim were in 1606, the first settlers were there in 1607 ie BEFORE the Ulster Plantation which was from 1610 - 1630. The Plantation was a quite separate event sponsored by the English Government and did not include Antrim and Down because they were already settled; indeed it was the apparent success of these two Scots settlers that convinced them to go ahead. I could witter on but shant :)) Brian Orr

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Virginia Beck" <ginia2@san.rr.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 17:59:31 -0700 >Do go on! I love it when you guys who really know this history put it all in >such easy to read perspective for the rest of us! Virginia > But speaking as one of the evil nitpickers (who is in turn nit picked or rather pecked on the back of the neck like a low caste chicken till I got no feathers there at all but instead a bloody wound), I bet it's durn intimidating to newcomers <grin>. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Another very useful book on the public plantation of Ulster (not Down and Antrim) that describes very very clearly how the land was appropriated according to English law is the following book. It's very readible to the non expert. The reason the process had to be legal was that from the point of view of the Crown, Ireland was part of its territory and the folks involved, both those gaining land and those losing it, would leave progeny who would sue through the courts to regain land (or sieze more) if anything remotely illegal could be found by a lawyer. This did happen a lot. Why do we care? Because it generated legal documents that contain names of the people involved. The book is Cyril Falls "The Birth of Ulster" (do a google for the publisher). The populist Irish versions of the plantation are good at fomenting division and hatred and clearly capture the hatred of the dispossessed Irish. However the other side of the story must be understood for those attempting to trace Ulster Scots or other "British" (ie trusted Protestants) as these documents may name the ancestor or the family of the ancestor. So it's well worth our effort to become familiar with the other side of the story. Cyril Falls wrote some other books as well. All are a dang good and informative read. If that's all you do with them, though, you've screwed up. They got bibliographies in the back that identify the sources of his info. He didn't copy out the names of non important characters. Maybe your ancestor's name is there. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi Brian, thanks for the Denization records. I might further add that while in the USA, we're (almost) all citizens with the right to vote, in Ireland and the rest of our favorite island chain, voting was restricted. The distribution of land was feudal -- like our American colonies. Ie it was granted out by the king who 'owned' it all. Then that individual, who of course owed his status as land holder to the king, granted it out to others. Then in turn sublet again. Finally you got down to the people who actually lived on the land who didn't own any of it. Tenants. Who got to vote varied over time, but it was always landlords who held land valued over a certain amount (which varied) for a very long time. Ie land could be granted for a year or lifetime or in perpetuity. As these grants for major landlords were made from the king, you look for them in the records of the royal court(s) (Irish and English). The Calendar of Patent Rolls is an index to these. They are called 'rolls' because they were large hides that were 'rolled up'. However the disappointment is that only major parties required denization so the mass of our Scottish, English, Welsh, etc, ancestors, coming over as tenants, aren't on them. Their landlord is and of course IDing the landlord is KEY in Irish genealogy as you can then research his family and locate his records and where he came from in Scotland. Landlords brought over tenants they knew: their own Scottish tenants or tenants of their relatives and neighbors. So finding out the name of the estate the ancsetor lived on is KEY to locating his origins. Doesn't always work of course!! The exception to 'poor people weren't on the denization lists' is non British (Scottish/Welsh, Irish/English: we hope to not step on too many toes here <grin) subjects. Many Protestants fled France throughout the 1500s and 1600s (repetitively as laws changed in France I have read), and they had to receive denization to remain. Ditto with the exiles and victims of the various European wars of the time from Holland and the Germanies. Some of these folk settled in England. It filled up so then they were settled in Ireland. The bible of Irish genealogy Falley "IRish and Scotch Irish Family History" has chapters on the history of all these people as well as the denization of Scottish undertakers in the early 1600s. It'll point you to sources. As the book was written in the 1960s, the sources may have changed location, been published or filmed or burnt onto CDs and/or scanned and OCRed into Ancestry. So some of these books are a lot more accessible than they were in the 1960s. Also you should check the archives of this list. A couple years ago I put in them the names of all the surviving early deeds of the Earl of Antrim. They had been published in an article in a periodical. Can't recall the year.....I gotta get caught up and update the webpages with links to the good stuff. I might also add that for those who are researching the surnames that appear constantly below many are inlaws and relatives of families who first settled Antrim and Down. Their stories, republished from contemporary sources like the Montgomery Papers, are republished in Hanna "The Scotch Irish". An understanding of their family ties is KEY. One client of mine had SHAW -- possibly from Down (Manifested near Charleston in a settlement of Ulster Presbyterians who came from Down: the Witherspoons and Bradleys, etc). Anyhow, there was a prominant SHAW family, inlaws of the Montgomeries. If you can make a connection to one of these families you can trace them back to Scotland. What is KEY is reading a lot of history about these primary families. To begin that, read Hanna "The Scotch-Irish". It's been said that the key to Irish genealogy is local history, local history, and local history. You will make no progress searching for a baptism of a guy born in 1704 in Ulster unless he was baptized in Templemore (Derry Cathedral) though there are exceptions to every rule. To see what does survive, check a book like Ryan "Irish records" that ids all known existent church records. Happy Hunting!!! Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Brian Orr" <brian@orrnamestudy.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:19:35 +0100 > Hi Folks > >I though I had better explain denization, which is simply the granting a person the rights of citizenship, this was done by a letter patent signed by the King. Knowing of your keen desire for names, below is a list of Scots who were granted denizenship in 1617 . Extracted from the Montgomery Manuscripts and the Calendar of Patent Rolls. > >Be lucky. > >Brian Orr > > Gilbert Adare of Ardehine Uthred M'Dowgall of Ballimaconnell > Andrew Agnewe of Carnie David M`Illveyne of Ballelogan > Thomas Agnew of Grayabbey > James McMakene of Donaghdie > John Aickin of Donaghdie John Marten of Dunnevilly > Patrick Allan of Ballydonane J ames Maxwell of Gransho > David Anderson of Castlecanvarie John Maxwell of Ballihalbert > John Barkley of Ballyrolly > Hugh Montgomery of Granshaghe > Robert Boyle of Drumfad John Montgomery of Ballymacrosse > David Boyde of Glasroche > John Montgomery of the Redene > Thomas Boyde of Crownerston Matthew Montgomery of Donoghdie > Nynnan Bracklie,Newton of Donghadie Patrick Montgomerie of Ballycreboy > William Caderwood of Ballyfrenzeis > William Montgomery of Donoghdie > James Cathcart of Ballirogane Robert Montgomery of Donoghdie > Claud.Conyngham of Donoghdie Hector Moore of Donan > James Cowper of Ballichosta John Moore of Donaghdie > Michael Craig of the Redene Quintene Moore of Aughneill > William Crawford of Cuningburn William Moore of Milntowne > John Cuningham of Rinchrivie William Moore preacher at Newton > David Cunyngham of Drumfad John Mowlen of Crownerston > Hugh Cunyngham of Castlespick Thomas Nevin of Ballicopland > William Cuninghame of Donoghdie John Peacocke of Ballidonan > Charles Domelston of Proveston Andrew Sempill of Ballygrenie > John Fraser of Donaghdie Patrick Shaw of Balliwalter > John Harper of Ballyhay William Shaw of Ballykilconan > John Harperof Donaghdie Alexander Speire of Gray Abbey. > Robert Harper of Provostoun John Thompson of Blackabbey > Thomas Harvie of Newton Robert Wilson of Newtowne > William Hunter of Donan James Williamson of Clay > Thomas Kelso of Ballyhacamore Allen Wilson of Newton > David Kennedy of Gortivillan John Wyly of Ballyhay > Walter Logane of Proveston > William Wymis of Newtowne > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Would that be Falley, Margaret Dickson? Irish and Scotch-Irish ancestral research : a guide to the genealogical records, methods and sources in Ireland If so I can order it from the local Family History Center. I checked "Irish Records" in the LDS Libaray Catalog and came up with 3000 hits narrowed it down to Irish Records, Ryan and came up with a lot of hits. So I'll have plenty to check up on as I have money to order it. Still trying to bust down the brick wall of my 5X g-gfather James Plumstead in England. Thanks for the help. Forrest Plumstead http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com>; "Forrest Plumstead" <fplum1@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Hello New to Group > Hi Forest, there's a lot on Irish Quakers. There's a number of other published books. You need to of course read them (not just do name lookups) if you want to understand Quakerism in Ireland. > > Also in my experience tracing Quakers, do not assume there was a huge wall between PA and MD. In fact the boundary was unclear until Mason and Dixon. Check both places. > > The definitive work on Ireland is Falley "Irish and Scotch Irish Ancestral History". This 2 vol work is in most libraries. It has a whole chapter on Irish Quakers and their records. > > You can also find information in books like Ryan "Irish Records". > > I told you privately where Irish Quaker records are kept, the index to them, and where to get them in the USA. If anyone else wants this info, email me. I'll post to the list and hope someone can add to it. (I already have posted it to the list but who searches the archives? I sure don't!!) > > Best of luck! > > Linda Merle > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Forrest Plumstead" <fplum1@gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 16:10:15 -0500 > > >>I confess that I know very little about Ireland. I am interested in additional information about County Armagh, Irish Quakers, Irish Hobsons. > > > >Meanwhile I will sit back and continue enjoying reading your posts. > > > >Forrest Plumstead > > > >San Antonio, Texas USA > > > >Plumstead and Associated Families http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net > > > >

Sorry to pick nits. Not English Government, but British King ;-). Scots are extremely allergic to the misuse of the world English. Having said that I agree it is sloppy. I'm not sure of the History in a number of places. Jesuits and the 1641? The 56 years between Wentworth and the Boyne is rather skipped over, and in many ways that was then the SI got their "soul" as a people on the move because they felt threatened (and were they right) Don't know enough about the Colonial period to comment Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Brian Orr [mailto:brian@orrnamestudy.com] Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:50 AM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Sc-Ir] Web site - www.irishgenealogy.com Hi folks Just had a look at the page Linda kindly pointed to . It seems a bit sloppy to me. The Montgomery and Hamilton settlements in Co Down and Antrim were in 1606, the first settlers were there in 1607 ie BEFORE the Ulster Plantation which was from 1610 - 1630. The Plantation was a quite separate event sponsored by the English Government and did not include Antrim and Down because they were already settled; indeed it was the apparent success of these two Scots settlers that convinced them to go ahead. I could witter on but shant :)) Brian Orr

Do go on! I love it when you guys who really know this history put it all in such easy to read perspective for the rest of us! Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Andrews" <edward.andrews@btinternet.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 12:10 PM Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Web site - www.irishgenealogy.com > Sorry to pick nits. Not English Government, but British King ;-). > Scots are extremely allergic to the misuse of the world English. > Having said that I agree it is sloppy. I'm not sure of the History in a > number of places. Jesuits and the 1641? The 56 years between Wentworth and > the Boyne is rather skipped over, and in many ways that was then the SI > got > their "soul" as a people on the move because they felt threatened (and > were > they right) > Don't know enough about the Colonial period to comment > Edward Andrews > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Orr [mailto:brian@orrnamestudy.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 10:50 AM > To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Sc-Ir] Web site - www.irishgenealogy.com > > Hi folks > > Just had a look at the page Linda kindly pointed to . It seems a bit > sloppy > to me. > > The Montgomery and Hamilton settlements in Co Down and Antrim were in > 1606, > the first settlers were there in 1607 ie BEFORE the Ulster Plantation > which > was from 1610 - 1630. The Plantation was a quite separate event sponsored > by the English Government and did not include Antrim and Down because they > were already settled; indeed it was the apparent success of these two > Scots > settlers that convinced them to go ahead. > > I could witter on but shant :)) > > Brian Orr > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.0/50 - Release Date: 7/16/2005 > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.0/50 - Release Date: 7/16/2005

Hi folks, a man on another list has found the following reference to the term from 1663: >Here is a record in Charles County >from the Archives of Maryland dated 29 July 1663: http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/megafile/msa/speccol/sc2900/sc2908/000001/000053/html/am53--379.html >"Goodie Belayne" referred to is my ancestor Elizabeth, her husband at that >time being John Belaine, the second of her three husbands. Thanks to Rick Saunders: http://genealogypro.com/fsaunders.html "Callest Troge and goodie dod sayd she was no Scoatchmans whore and goodie neuill sayd that nether scotch Irish or English came anus to her and with that goodie dod sayd to goodie neuill cum will you go horn and eat sum of goodie belaynes fat Porke if I haue any and goodie neuill spit at her .... " etc Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi everybody! I am new to this list. I've actually been a member for several months, but right after signing up my hard drive crashed hard. I just got back on line a few days ago. I'm still catching up on reading all of your letters. Here is my story. I am the 8X g-grandson of ffrances Hobson who was a martyr for the Quaker cause. My dad's mother comes out of this line. Francis grandson Francis III who the emmigrant to the New World. He settled and died in York Co. PA., right outside of Phillidelphia. The Hobsons were neighbor to Valentine Hollingsworth who was also Quaker. Here is the story of Francis Hobson I. The following is an excerpt out of "The Hollingsworth Register" by John V. Hollingsworth concerning the martyr death of Francis Hobson who is my 8X great grandfather. Put to death by neglect for his belief in the Quaker Movement in Ireland. 1673 Valentine Hollingsworth had taken from him for tithe, by Edmund O'Maghan & Thomas Proctor, Corn & Hay worth two pounds. (Here, I insert another entry that does not apply to Valentine, but it does show more of the suffering the Quakers had to bear for their convictions.) Francis Hobson had taken from him for tithe, by the said persons, twenty-six stooks of Wheat, fifteen stooks of Barley & thirteen stooks of Oats, all worth four pounds. (And if this was not enough - The writer's per.) Being also sued in the Bishop's Court at Ardmagh for two pounds tithe of Milches by the aforesaid George Walker, and by a warrant from two Justices of the Peace, upon a definitive sentence was taken by David Mulligan, Constable, the second day of the sixth month, and committed to the Gaol of Armagh, and was Prisoner two years and four months, and about the thirtieth of the tenth month, 1675, died in said Gaol. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following is an excerpt out of "Immigration of the Irish Quakers into Pennsylvania" written by Myers Albert Cook In 1666 Frances Hobson, of County Armaugh, had taken for tithes, goods valued at L7. 10S (Besse, II., 475), and in 1670, goods valued at L3. 5S., for refusing to contribute to the repair of the "Parish Worship House at Kilmore," County Armagh. (Ibid., II., 479.) In 1671, He had taken for tithes, wheat, barley and oats, valued at L3. 14. (Stockdale, 4) In 1673 in County Armagh "Frances Hobsonwas sued in the Bishop's Court at Ardmagh for L2 Tyth of Milch money, by George Walker, Priest, and by warrent from two Justice of the Peace, upon a difinitive sentence, was taken by David Mulligan, Constable, The 2nd day of the sixth month, and commited to the Goal of Armagh and was prisoner 2 years, 4 months, and about the 13th of the tenth month 1675 died in said Goal." (A Compendious View, 79-80) I confess that I know very little about Ireland. I am interested in additional information about County Armagh, Irish Quakers, Irish Hobsons. Meanwhile I will sit back and continue enjoying reading your posts. Forrest Plumstead San Antonio, Texas USA Plumstead and Associated Families http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum

Hi Forest, there's a lot on Irish Quakers. There's a number of other published books. You need to of course read them (not just do name lookups) if you want to understand Quakerism in Ireland. Also in my experience tracing Quakers, do not assume there was a huge wall between PA and MD. In fact the boundary was unclear until Mason and Dixon. Check both places. The definitive work on Ireland is Falley "Irish and Scotch Irish Ancestral History". This 2 vol work is in most libraries. It has a whole chapter on Irish Quakers and their records. You can also find information in books like Ryan "Irish Records". I told you privately where Irish Quaker records are kept, the index to them, and where to get them in the USA. If anyone else wants this info, email me. I'll post to the list and hope someone can add to it. (I already have posted it to the list but who searches the archives? I sure don't!!) Best of luck! Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Forrest Plumstead" <fplum1@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 16:10:15 -0500 >>I confess that I know very little about Ireland. I am interested in additional information about County Armagh, Irish Quakers, Irish Hobsons. > >Meanwhile I will sit back and continue enjoying reading your posts. > >Forrest Plumstead > >San Antonio, Texas USA > >Plumstead and Associated Families http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi Brian, thanks for the careful reading! I agree with you of course. Please witter on. People are really tired of hearing it from me and I'm tired of typing too <grin>! Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Brian Orr" <brian@orrnamestudy.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 10:49:51 +0100 >Hi folks > >Just had a look at the page Linda kindly pointed to . It seems a bit sloppy to me. > >The Montgomery and Hamilton settlements in Co Down and Antrim were in 1606, the first settlers were there in 1607 ie BEFORE the Ulster Plantation which was from 1610 - 1630. The Plantation was a quite separate event sponsored by the English Government and did not include Antrim and Down because they were already settled; indeed it was the apparent success of these two Scots settlers that convinced them to go ahead. > >I could witter on but shant :)) > >Brian Orr > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi folks Just had a look at the page Linda kindly pointed to . It seems a bit sloppy to me. The Montgomery and Hamilton settlements in Co Down and Antrim were in 1606, the first settlers were there in 1607 ie BEFORE the Ulster Plantation which was from 1610 - 1630. The Plantation was a quite separate event sponsored by the English Government and did not include Antrim and Down because they were already settled; indeed it was the apparent success of these two Scots settlers that convinced them to go ahead. I could witter on but shant :)) Brian Orr

Hi folks, Found a new webpage with a little history, taken from Leyburn's social history: http://www.irishgenealogy.com/surnames/migration-scotch-irish.htm This isn't my website so please don't shoot me if you disagree with the contents. I don't even know if ***I*** agree with the contents yet due to distraction....the weekly Irish music show is on the radio (www.wgbh.org --- you can listen on line too!) The 'front page' has some good links: http://www.irishgenealogy.com/ Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Not so sure it's off topic. There was a story in our family about an ancestor who was a "pirate." And our Dout family had so many skeletons in its closet, the door wouldn't shut. They were a tough bunch who married women who had to be just as tough to abide them. Bill McKinney Erie, Pa. ----- Original Message ----- From: "the Mitchells" <jjmitchell@shaw.ca> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: [Sc-Ir] DOUGHTY and a bit off topic > Just a note of interest - a Thomas DOUGHTY (d.1578), who with his brother > John, accompanied Sir Francis Drake as Drake set out to "explore" the > Spanish-held Pacific coast of South America and Mexico (AD 1577 - 1580). > Doughty met Drake while serving under the Earl of Essex in Ireland. > > Unfortunately, Drake found it necessary to behead Thomas Doughty for what > was perceived by Drake to be subversion and insubordination. Doughty met > his end near Port St Julian, Argentina, prior to the expedition entering > the Straits of Magellan. > > John Mitchell > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.16/50 - Release Date: 7/15/2005 > >

Just a note of interest - a Thomas DOUGHTY (d.1578), who with his brother John, accompanied Sir Francis Drake as Drake set out to "explore" the Spanish-held Pacific coast of South America and Mexico (AD 1577 - 1580). Doughty met Drake while serving under the Earl of Essex in Ireland. Unfortunately, Drake found it necessary to behead Thomas Doughty for what was perceived by Drake to be subversion and insubordination. Doughty met his end near Port St Julian, Argentina, prior to the expedition entering the Straits of Magellan. John Mitchell

If you still have the hard drive, and can find a really competent computer software "pro", ask if he/she can restore your files. My son-in-law was able to save nearly everything from my "fried" hard drive when I was sure it was beyond retrieval. It's worth a try. Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kennedy" <kennedmr@siscom.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 1:30 PM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Lost my emails - please help to rebuild > Greetings All: > > Last week I had major computer problem. > When it was over, I found ALL my emails gone. > As you can guess, this was a major disaster. > All my carefully labeled and organized email folders, and the pictures and > data they contained were gone. > This was about a two year collection of information. > > I received great information and pictures from many fine people. > I carefully placed these emails in the proper folders. > I planned to go back to each folder and transfer the data to my family > recordkeeping program. > Unfortunately, that old demon "Procrastination" kept interfering. > By the time I lost my emails, there was great amounts of data in the > emails and not in the family records. > I thought I was careful and backing up my data, but I cannot find where I > saved the emails. > > I am asking your help to rebuild and regain some of the information. > > I would appreciate it very much if anyone who corresponded with me in the > last couple of years could check their email lists. > If you still have emails I sent to you or your responses to me, please > send me copies. > > > I will be very busy the next few months rebuilding the email folders and > emails AND SAVING THE DATA. > > Thank you for any or all help you can give. > > KENNEDY - County Down Ireland -- Killyleagh, Inch, Downpatrick and nearby > areas. > Kirkcudbrightshire Scotland & Glasgow Scotland > Rhode Island 1850's - ? > Massachusetts 1814 - Upton and 1850's - Northbridge > Worcester Ma > Jefferson and Orange Co NY 1865 -1930's > Detroit area of Michigan, Pittsburgh area of PA, Dayton > area of OH > ORR - County Down Ireland -- Killyleagh, Inch, Downpatrick and > nearby areas. > Brown - County Down Ireland -- Killyleagh, Inch, Downpatrick and > nearby areas. > McKelvey - County Down Ireland -- Killyleagh, Inch, Downpatrick and > nearby areas. > MUELLER/MILLER - Uiffingen, Baden Germany > Montgomery/Clark/Greene Co Ohio > > PLANNER/PLANNERER/PLANERER - Lenau, Kulmain, Kemnath area of Oberpfalz > Bavaria Germany > Dayton Ohio > SCHREIBER - Lenau, Kulmain, Kemnath area of Oberpfalz Bavaria Germany > Dayton Ohio > BRAND - ALSAAC LORRAINE, BADEN GERMANY > Mercer Co. OH & Dayton Ohio > BUEHLER - Gamshurst, Baden Germany > Dayton Ohio > > > Mike Kennedy > Dayton Ohio > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.16/50 - Release Date: 7/15/2005 > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.16/50 - Release Date: 7/15/2005

Hello Jean, Try www.surnamenavigator.org/ I used the international search and found more DOUGHTIES than you can shake a stick at. During a very quick peek I found references for 1474 for Derbyshire and 1500 for Lincolnshire. There is a map of British counties before the changes in 1974 at www.genuki.org.uk/big/Britain.html You'll see that Derbyshire and Lincolnshire are separated by Nottinghamshire which is not far in today's terms but could still be a long way in England until the invention of the railway. MacLYSAGHT "The Surnames of Ireland" DOUGHTY An English adjectival name associated with Dublin since mid-seventeenth century. [no Doughtie] Doughty means hardy, resolute. Various WYNN(E) families were prominent in North Wales history. Rob Doragh Liverpool UK JDoug30627@aol.com> Subject: Searching for unusual surnames Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 my husband's name ... Doughtie. From all we have found, it is English. Any ideas? Jean Wynn Doughtie

Malinda, I knew there were a lot of variations on that name, but more than 150? Good Lord! My grandmother (my father's mother) was a Dout, from New Castle, Pa. We can trace that line back to Franklin Leander Rainey Dout, b. about 1790. Then we lose them, probably to spelling variations. Interestingly enough, our older relatives insisted that the only name we should recognize as "the" Dout line must be spelled DOUT. No others need apply. Bill McKinney Erie, Pa. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mthiessen" <mthiesse@swbell.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] DOUGHTY and unusual surnames > It's also possible that DOUGHTIE/DOUGHTY are spelling variations of > DOUTHIT/DOWTHWAITE etc > > There are over 150 spelling variations for this surname documented in 1850 > in NC alone. > > Just a thought, > ~malinda > > Rob D <robertdoragh@hotmail.com> wrote: > Hello Jean, > > Try www.surnamenavigator.org/ I used the international search and found > more DOUGHTIES than you can shake a stick at. During a very quick peek I > found references for 1474 for Derbyshire and 1500 for Lincolnshire. There > is a map of British counties before the changes in 1974 at > www.genuki.org.uk/big/Britain.html You'll see that Derbyshire and > Lincolnshire are separated by Nottinghamshire which is not far in today's > terms but could still be a long way in England until the invention of the > railway. > > MacLYSAGHT "The Surnames of Ireland" DOUGHTY An English adjectival name > associated with Dublin since mid-seventeenth century. [no Doughtie] > Doughty > means hardy, resolute. > > Various WYNN(E) families were prominent in North Wales history. > > Rob Doragh > > Liverpool UK > > JDoug30627@aol.com> Subject: Searching for unusual surnames Date: Wed, 13 > Jul 2005 my husband's name ... Doughtie. From all we have found, it is > English. Any ideas? Jean Wynn Doughtie > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.15/49 - Release Date: 7/14/2005 > >

It's also possible that DOUGHTIE/DOUGHTY are spelling variations of DOUTHIT/DOWTHWAITE etc There are over 150 spelling variations for this surname documented in 1850 in NC alone. Just a thought, ~malinda Rob D <robertdoragh@hotmail.com> wrote: Hello Jean, Try www.surnamenavigator.org/ I used the international search and found more DOUGHTIES than you can shake a stick at. During a very quick peek I found references for 1474 for Derbyshire and 1500 for Lincolnshire. There is a map of British counties before the changes in 1974 at www.genuki.org.uk/big/Britain.html You'll see that Derbyshire and Lincolnshire are separated by Nottinghamshire which is not far in today's terms but could still be a long way in England until the invention of the railway. MacLYSAGHT "The Surnames of Ireland" DOUGHTY An English adjectival name associated with Dublin since mid-seventeenth century. [no Doughtie] Doughty means hardy, resolute. Various WYNN(E) families were prominent in North Wales history. Rob Doragh Liverpool UK JDoug30627@aol.com> Subject: Searching for unusual surnames Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 my husband's name ... Doughtie. From all we have found, it is English. Any ideas? Jean Wynn Doughtie

Greetings All: Last week I had major computer problem. When it was over, I found ALL my emails gone. As you can guess, this was a major disaster. All my carefully labeled and organized email folders, and the pictures and data they contained were gone. This was about a two year collection of information. I received great information and pictures from many fine people. I carefully placed these emails in the proper folders. I planned to go back to each folder and transfer the data to my family recordkeeping program. Unfortunately, that old demon "Procrastination" kept interfering. By the time I lost my emails, there was great amounts of data in the emails and not in the family records. I thought I was careful and backing up my data, but I cannot find where I saved the emails. I am asking your help to rebuild and regain some of the information. I would appreciate it very much if anyone who corresponded with me in the last couple of years could check their email lists. If you still have emails I sent to you or your responses to me, please send me copies. I will be very busy the next few months rebuilding the email folders and emails AND SAVING THE DATA. Thank you for any or all help you can give. KENNEDY - County Down Ireland -- Killyleagh, Inch, Downpatrick and nearby areas. Kirkcudbrightshire Scotland & Glasgow Scotland Rhode Island 1850's - ? Massachusetts 1814 - Upton and 1850's - Northbridge Worcester Ma Jefferson and Orange Co NY 1865 -1930's Detroit area of Michigan, Pittsburgh area of PA, Dayton area of OH ORR - County Down Ireland -- Killyleagh, Inch, Downpatrick and nearby areas. Brown - County Down Ireland -- Killyleagh, Inch, Downpatrick and nearby areas. McKelvey - County Down Ireland -- Killyleagh, Inch, Downpatrick and nearby areas. MUELLER/MILLER - Uiffingen, Baden Germany Montgomery/Clark/Greene Co Ohio PLANNER/PLANNERER/PLANERER - Lenau, Kulmain, Kemnath area of Oberpfalz Bavaria Germany Dayton Ohio SCHREIBER - Lenau, Kulmain, Kemnath area of Oberpfalz Bavaria Germany Dayton Ohio BRAND - ALSAAC LORRAINE, BADEN GERMANY Mercer Co. OH & Dayton Ohio BUEHLER - Gamshurst, Baden Germany Dayton Ohio Mike Kennedy Dayton Ohio