O.K. Linda & Brian - that does it! As suggested in a private communication I am breakig down and posting the following: The Scots keep the Sabbath and anything else they can lay their hands on. (Scotch is a drink) The Irish don't know what they want but are willing to fight for it. The Welsh are always on their knees - either digging coal or praying. And the English! The English are a self-made race ............ thus saving God a LOT of embarressment Ray Kinkaid Ontario (A Canadian of Scottish parentage and Ulster grandparent)
Hi Ray, That's one of my favorites! Meanwhile, here's a link to some interesting research. Suggests that the English aren't Angles and Saxons and probably has implications for the rest of the rest of us! EDITOR'S DESK: Peering into Britons' Past BRITONS' COOL ANCIENT ROOTS. Despite invasions by Saxons, Romans, Vikings, Normans, and others, the genetic makeup of today's white Britons is much the same as it was 12,000 ago, a new book claims. About 80 percent of Britons' genes come from hunter-gatherers who came in immediately after the Ice Age, according the author, David Miles. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0719_050719_britishgene.html It's from the Rootsweb Review, which is free and comes weekly from www.rootsweb.com Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Ray Kinkaid" <fredaray@sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:52:39 -0400 >O.K. Linda & Brian - that does it! As suggested in a private communication I am breakig down and posting the following: > >The Scots keep the Sabbath and anything else they can lay their hands on. (Scotch is a drink) > >The Irish don't know what they want but are willing to fight for it. > >The Welsh are always on their knees - either digging coal or praying. > >And the English! The English are a self-made race ............ thus saving God a LOT of embarressment > >Ray Kinkaid >Ontario (A Canadian of Scottish parentage and Ulster grandparent) > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net
I seem to remember, Linda, that you had a bit of a scrap with Brian McConnell and threw him off this list some time ago. He, of course, then went and founded his own Can-Orange list, and he has a webpage on "CANADA'S ORANGE ROOTS" at http://orangeroots.tripod.com/intro.html So I suppose it would be stopping an old fight rather than starting a new one? The Orange Order was very strong in Canada, and ought to be a good source of information on protestant settlers, and I found material through them on a Rev William Frederick Fitzgerald. (Anyone with information on Kingston, Ontario?) A reference from "PROMINENT PEOPLE OF ONTARIO", published in 1925, and received from Alex Rough (arough <arough@netrover.com>) reads as follows: "Rev. Canon William Frederick Fitzgerald, M.A. Rector of St. Paul's Church, Kingston. Born at "Rathronan", Limerick, Ireland, on November 18th, 1866, son of the late Rev. M. and Catharine Christina [Pierce] Fitzgerald. Attended Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland. Took B.A. 1888; M.A. and Divinity Testimonium, 1891. Married on August 7th, 1900, to Charlotte Jane, daughter of the late R. Reid, of "Balydrehid", County Sligo, Ireland. Societies: A.F. & A.M., L.O.L., and I.O.F. Church of England. Address: 238 Brock St., Kingston." Further information from Alex Rough is that in 1924 he was a member of L.O.L. No. 6, [the same Orange Lodge as Sir John A. Macdonald, Prime Minister]. Charlie Linda Merle wrote: > Hi folks, > > Not to start a fight or anything, but I am wondering who is > researching, eh, people from Ireland??? I'm doing some > work for a client. In one book I learned that most of these > folk were Protestants and not from Ulster. Once Ireland had > a lot of Prods outside of Ulster, but they left and are > hardly even remembered now. Apparently many went to Canada. > > One book "The Untold Story: the Irish in Canada" says as many as 2/3rds were Protestant in 1871, after the Famine Migration (when many Catholics left Ireland). > > Anyhow, I was looking at Fitzroy Twp, Lanark, where a > William Ritchie from Mayo lived (1851 census; id'ed in the > book above, not by me). The book id'ed the township but not > the county so I did a search and found it. Also found > this great little Anglican church in Fitzroy Twp, full > of people from Ireland: > http://www.bytown.net/fitzroy.htm > > Below are a few of the names on this website, which also > includes information on Catholic settlers. The website > says of the names below: > Source: Beyond Our Memory ... A History of Fitzroy Township, 1989, > ISBN 0-969-4250-0-7, Edited by Karen Lewis Runtz > > "The above pioneers lived in Fitzroy Township, but many of them attended church at Corkery, in Huntley Township." > > LINDA: > Lots of info on McKIBBON, a surname of mine though probably > Cty Antrim (Covenantors in Ahoghill), though these ones > are from Enniskillen. > > The website places MANY Of our US surnames in locations in > Ireland -- so check it out!! > > Linda Merle > > "BEHAN, Edward from Nenagh, County Tipperary > > COADY, Richard, came to Fitzroy c. 1830 from County Cork, Ireland. > Coady's Creek on Highway 44. > > COLTON, Michael, Owen, Frank and John (brothers) from County Tyrone, c. 1830. > > COSTELLO, Michael (died at Grosse Isle, 1847). > Widow was a GAVIN, 7 children. Eldest son, Mathew COSTELLO farmed in Fitzroy. > > CROTTY, Michael, wife Norah, from County Waterford > > CURRIE (CURRY), Patrick, wife Mary Kavanagh, both from County Fermanagh, Ireland > in 1840's. > > FARRY, Patrick from County Fermanagh immig. in 1842. > wife was Mary LUNNEY. > Patrick died 1856, aged 67 > > GORMAN, Patrick, from Thurles, County Tipperary (old Celtic Cross tombstone in Fitzroy Harbour cemetery) > > HOGAN, Thomas, from Cloughjordan, County Tipperary > > LINDSAY, Patrick and wife Catherine QUINN, 3 sons Bernard, Patrick and Joseph. > Foster son, John O'REILLY married Bridget CARLETON > > McDERMOTT, Michael from County Galway > > McGRATH, Michael Lot 2, Con. 3. > > McHALE, Patrick and wife Mary FARRELL - County Mayo > Son James McHALE 1831-1891 married Margaret WALSH. > Son Patrick 1825-1895 married Bridget O'DONNELL > > McMAHON, Michael, Thadeus, and Patrick (brothers) from County Clare, Ireland. > Write-up in Fitzroy Book but records at Corkery. > > MORAN, Francis, 1813-1888 from County Leitrim, Ireland > > O'NEIL, Joseph and Agnes COADY, from County Clare in 1840. > > O'NEILL, John and wife Ellen from Tipperary > > SHANNON, Sarah from County Sligo > > SHERIDAN, John b. 1811, brother Michael, b. 1821, > > STANTON, John 1821-1884, wife Catherine GIBBONS, both from Roscommon, > settled at Morris Island (before bridge was built). > > SULLIVAN, Thomas, from County Cork, wife Adeline born in Vermont > > Source: Beyond Our Memory ... A History of Fitzroy Township, 1989, > ISBN 0-969-4250-0-7, Edited by Karen Lewis Runtz > > The above pioneers lived in Fitzroy Township, but many of them attended church > at Corkery, in Huntley Township.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > January 16, 2002 > > Thanks to Dennis Hunt for the following list of pioneers in Fitzroy Township: > > Al, > > I saw your web page that listed early Irish families in Fitzroy. Here is my family > and their friends that were very early settlers of Fitzroy. > > McKibbon, William, came to Fitzroy from County Cavan, Ireland (see e-mail dated September 11, 2003) > > Shaw, Henry, came to Fitzroy in 1926 from Mohill, County Leitrim, Ireland > > Gillan, Francis, in 1831 from Clooncumber, Co Leitrim, Ireland > > Latimer, James in 1831 from Mohill, County Leitrim, Ireland > > Wilson, John in 1831 from Mohill, County Leitrim, Ireland > > Moreton, George, in 1831 from Mohill, County Leitrim, Ireland > > McGinley, Robert, in 1831 from Mohill, County Leitrim, Ireland > > Hunt, John in 1832 from Curraun, Mohill, Co. Leitrim, Ireland > > Hunt, Robert in 1840 from Curraun, Mohill, Co. Leitrim, Ireland > > Hunt, Thomas came to Fitzroy from Curraun, Mohill, Co. Leitrim, Ireland > > ... Dennis Hunt > > http://www.bytown.net/fitzroy.htm " > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net > > >
Excuse me. First link should be http://canadasulsterscots.tripod.com/page1.htm Brian --- B M <guidbillie00@yahoo.com> wrote: > Here are a few other sites and articles which were > prepared by Brian McConnell on aspects of Ulster > Scots > that may interest some: > > Canada's Ulster Scots > > http://canadasulsterscots.tripod.com/page1.html > > Ulster Scots in Canada > > http://www.electricscotland.com/ssf/ScotNewsletters/Nov2001/Page5.pdf > > The Ulster Scots Come To Canada > > http://members.aol.com/manus2/ulsterto.html > > The Campbells from County Cavan > > http://www.orangenet.org/campbell.htm > > Brian had ancestors from Ireland who were members of > the Orange Order and also Ulster Scots, and some > others who were not. Thus his interest in > researching > both sides. > > > He was the founder of several Rootsweb lists > beginning > with the Irish Canadian Mailing List which he > attempted (unsuccessfully ) to make open to both > traditions, Protestant and RC. He later started up > the Canada Orange Mailing List in 1998, and the > Canada's Ulster Scots mailing List. This was all > PRIOR to leaving this List. > > As the Archives of this list show, he even filled in > more than once as list administrator for this list > for > Linda, at her request when she was away. That was > before he mentioned the unmentionable words on this > List "Orange Order" and tried to discuss the > undiscussable on this List "Orangeism." > > He just returned from a family holiday in Ireland > where he viewed impressive old Methodist church > buildings in both Kinsale, County Cork and > Killarney, > County Kerry which echo some of the recent > discussions. There certainly were significant > Protestant communities in dfferent parts of Ireland > and many of their members moved to Canada and the > USA. > An interesting visit if you are in the west of > Ireland and have the time is King John's Castle in > Limerick which includes an audio visual presentation > on the history of Ireland that describes the role > played by both communities. Afterwards, nearby is > the > Limerick Museum where you can view antiquities > including old Masonic memorabalia worn in the city > by > Lodges formerly active there. > > Brian McConnell > > (aka "guidbillie " . When I was born my ulster > grandmother pronounced "he's another guid billie ." > ) > > > > > --- Linda Merle <merle@mail.fea.net> wrote: > > > Hi Charles, > > > > In my role as 'bouncer' on this list, I did indeed > > remove a certain man from this list years ago. > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Here are a few other sites and articles which were prepared by Brian McConnell on aspects of Ulster Scots that may interest some: Canada's Ulster Scots http://canadasulsterscots.tripod.com/page1.html Ulster Scots in Canada http://www.electricscotland.com/ssf/ScotNewsletters/Nov2001/Page5.pdf The Ulster Scots Come To Canada http://members.aol.com/manus2/ulsterto.html The Campbells from County Cavan http://www.orangenet.org/campbell.htm Brian had ancestors from Ireland who were members of the Orange Order and also Ulster Scots, and some others who were not. Thus his interest in researching both sides. He was the founder of several Rootsweb lists beginning with the Irish Canadian Mailing List which he attempted (unsuccessfully ) to make open to both traditions, Protestant and RC. He later started up the Canada Orange Mailing List in 1998, and the Canada's Ulster Scots mailing List. This was all PRIOR to leaving this List. As the Archives of this list show, he even filled in more than once as list administrator for this list for Linda, at her request when she was away. That was before he mentioned the unmentionable words on this List "Orange Order" and tried to discuss the undiscussable on this List "Orangeism." He just returned from a family holiday in Ireland where he viewed impressive old Methodist church buildings in both Kinsale, County Cork and Killarney, County Kerry which echo some of the recent discussions. There certainly were significant Protestant communities in dfferent parts of Ireland and many of their members moved to Canada and the USA. An interesting visit if you are in the west of Ireland and have the time is King John's Castle in Limerick which includes an audio visual presentation on the history of Ireland that describes the role played by both communities. Afterwards, nearby is the Limerick Museum where you can view antiquities including old Masonic memorabalia worn in the city by Lodges formerly active there. Brian McConnell (aka "guidbillie " . When I was born my ulster grandmother pronounced "he's another guid billie ." ) --- Linda Merle <merle@mail.fea.net> wrote: > Hi Charles, > > In my role as 'bouncer' on this list, I did indeed > remove a certain man from this list years ago. ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Hi Charles, In my role as 'bouncer' on this list, I did indeed remove a certain man from this list years ago. Whenever anyone gets out of line and I deal with the problem I'm to blame, just as when I don't deal with the problem I'm to blame <grin>. This is a thankless job and you'd better hope that I don't point the business end of the canon at you (making you admin) and abscond for parts unknown <grin>!! Your life will then take on mythic proportions. I don't know if your infamy/fame (in this job you learn these are the same <grin>!) will rival that of some of your rellies, but it might!! So be nice to me.....I got the list password and your email address <grin>. As a result of Brian's attack on the list a number of people both on and off this list on both sides of the pond endured some misery and I got a funny story to tell over and over till its unrecognizable <grin>. Anywho....anyone researching these folks might want to check out the sister list: http://orangeroots.tripod.com/intro.html >So I suppose it would be stopping an old fight rather than starting a new one? I donno, I am one for respecting borders. As I recall we got one (down the middle of a few buildings up there in Maine, I hear!), and our northern cousins have not wanted to be called "Scotch Irish", so I at least respect that. (I'm not sure I want to be called that either but it does sound better than a few things I've been called, so....) The tiff (is that the word??) goes way back in history to at least the 1780s and 1790s when the Protestants (though few would have then called them that, except the Catholics: the Anglicans and the Presbyterians/Methodists/Baptists/ Quakers/Mennonites, etc were quite different in social class, speaking broadly)....were themselves split. That was the time of the misnamed "United Irish" movement (they weren't united at all). So back then you had the Orange Order coming into being, loyal to the Crown, and fighting in the true Irish style their brethern in the streets and fields, the so-called United Irishmen. The United Irishmen, having been so ununited that they all informed on one another before the battles and thus lost them since all the leadership was already in jail, had to flee though many died before they could. Many came to the USA. Why they didn't go to Canada is clear! Here their pressed their agenda and won, helping to defeat the Federalists. Or so said a book I read, a very engaging book that I've packed away alas. The folk feeling loyal to the Crown who were leaving went to Canada. So even before we left Ireland we were an un-united people. If we don't seem too close from the perspective of New Zealand, that's cause we've not been close for over 200 years. We've grown apart. However often we grow together (usually this even occurs in Detroit <grin>), which is why I am working on this one family who drifted into Detroit and married not only Americans but over the Irish religious divide too into an Irish Catholic family previously in Scotland for part of a generation. As they had several children in Scotland before splitting for the rebel-lands of America, they weren't hard to trace....unlike this obscure Canuckian who came way to early to suit my taste! It's good the maple-ly cousins got a list of their own. As long as we are polite (or apologize afterwards), all (or most) are welcome here. I recall as a child being terrified of the Orange Order as our oral history is that we left (probably KELLYs from County Down) "Because the Catholics abandoned us and the Protestants betrayed us". We all figured the Orange Order was waiting at the airplane gate for our return to finish the business. We knew the government had forgotten we existed but being Irish, the men of the OO probably hadn't!! WHile I've studied enough history and met enough people to overcome my childhood boogiemen, some haven't. So organizations that are iconic in Canada play a different role south of border. Just a part of our history. If my mother had known Ontario was full of Orangemen we'd have never taken that risky vacation to Niagra Falls <grin>. Mentioning the OO on this list is kinda like mentioning the K-word that I won't mention -- it draws some nasty flies like them no-see-ums we got in northern Mass and so on into Canada. Or maybe I'm just paranoid ... I mean, most of my ancestors were Irish so if I wasn't paranoid, I wouldn't be normal, eh??? However we're in total agreement that the OO has LOTS of history, not on in Canada but in Ireland as well and I now count some Orangemen among my friends. (So they might let me in the library in Belfast <grin>). Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net
The new thread on Irish Protestants in Ontario is interesting and illuminating on the large migration from all parts of Ireland, not just Ulster. Bruce S. Elliott, Irish Migrants in the Canadas (Montreal: McGill University Press, 1988), 2nd edition, 2004, $32.95 US and Canada, tells this story, primarily through case studies of Protestant emigrants from North Tipperary to Ontario. This is an outstanding book, that I considered groundbreaking when I reviewed it in 1988 (and my review is still quoted in the publisher's blurb). The author is a trained genealogist who drew on genealogical records of many Ontario families. Donald Harmen Akenson, The Irish in Ontario, also from McGill, is another good book on the topic. Akenson has researched and written widely on both Ulster and rural Ontario. Richard
Hi folks, Not to start a fight or anything, but I am wondering who is researching, eh, people from Ireland??? I'm doing some work for a client. In one book I learned that most of these folk were Protestants and not from Ulster. Once Ireland had a lot of Prods outside of Ulster, but they left and are hardly even remembered now. Apparently many went to Canada. One book "The Untold Story: the Irish in Canada" says as many as 2/3rds were Protestant in 1871, after the Famine Migration (when many Catholics left Ireland). Anyhow, I was looking at Fitzroy Twp, Lanark, where a William Ritchie from Mayo lived (1851 census; id'ed in the book above, not by me). The book id'ed the township but not the county so I did a search and found it. Also found this great little Anglican church in Fitzroy Twp, full of people from Ireland: http://www.bytown.net/fitzroy.htm Below are a few of the names on this website, which also includes information on Catholic settlers. The website says of the names below: Source: Beyond Our Memory ... A History of Fitzroy Township, 1989, ISBN 0-969-4250-0-7, Edited by Karen Lewis Runtz "The above pioneers lived in Fitzroy Township, but many of them attended church at Corkery, in Huntley Township." LINDA: Lots of info on McKIBBON, a surname of mine though probably Cty Antrim (Covenantors in Ahoghill), though these ones are from Enniskillen. The website places MANY Of our US surnames in locations in Ireland -- so check it out!! Linda Merle "BEHAN, Edward from Nenagh, County Tipperary COADY, Richard, came to Fitzroy c. 1830 from County Cork, Ireland. Coady's Creek on Highway 44. COLTON, Michael, Owen, Frank and John (brothers) from County Tyrone, c. 1830. COSTELLO, Michael (died at Grosse Isle, 1847). Widow was a GAVIN, 7 children. Eldest son, Mathew COSTELLO farmed in Fitzroy. CROTTY, Michael, wife Norah, from County Waterford CURRIE (CURRY), Patrick, wife Mary Kavanagh, both from County Fermanagh, Ireland in 1840's. FARRY, Patrick from County Fermanagh immig. in 1842. wife was Mary LUNNEY. Patrick died 1856, aged 67 GORMAN, Patrick, from Thurles, County Tipperary (old Celtic Cross tombstone in Fitzroy Harbour cemetery) HOGAN, Thomas, from Cloughjordan, County Tipperary LINDSAY, Patrick and wife Catherine QUINN, 3 sons Bernard, Patrick and Joseph. Foster son, John O'REILLY married Bridget CARLETON McDERMOTT, Michael from County Galway McGRATH, Michael Lot 2, Con. 3. McHALE, Patrick and wife Mary FARRELL - County Mayo Son James McHALE 1831-1891 married Margaret WALSH. Son Patrick 1825-1895 married Bridget O'DONNELL McMAHON, Michael, Thadeus, and Patrick (brothers) from County Clare, Ireland. Write-up in Fitzroy Book but records at Corkery. MORAN, Francis, 1813-1888 from County Leitrim, Ireland O'NEIL, Joseph and Agnes COADY, from County Clare in 1840. O'NEILL, John and wife Ellen from Tipperary SHANNON, Sarah from County Sligo SHERIDAN, John b. 1811, brother Michael, b. 1821, STANTON, John 1821-1884, wife Catherine GIBBONS, both from Roscommon, settled at Morris Island (before bridge was built). SULLIVAN, Thomas, from County Cork, wife Adeline born in Vermont Source: Beyond Our Memory ... A History of Fitzroy Township, 1989, ISBN 0-969-4250-0-7, Edited by Karen Lewis Runtz The above pioneers lived in Fitzroy Township, but many of them attended church at Corkery, in Huntley Township.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- January 16, 2002 Thanks to Dennis Hunt for the following list of pioneers in Fitzroy Township: Al, I saw your web page that listed early Irish families in Fitzroy. Here is my family and their friends that were very early settlers of Fitzroy. McKibbon, William, came to Fitzroy from County Cavan, Ireland (see e-mail dated September 11, 2003) Shaw, Henry, came to Fitzroy in 1926 from Mohill, County Leitrim, Ireland Gillan, Francis, in 1831 from Clooncumber, Co Leitrim, Ireland Latimer, James in 1831 from Mohill, County Leitrim, Ireland Wilson, John in 1831 from Mohill, County Leitrim, Ireland Moreton, George, in 1831 from Mohill, County Leitrim, Ireland McGinley, Robert, in 1831 from Mohill, County Leitrim, Ireland Hunt, John in 1832 from Curraun, Mohill, Co. Leitrim, Ireland Hunt, Robert in 1840 from Curraun, Mohill, Co. Leitrim, Ireland Hunt, Thomas came to Fitzroy from Curraun, Mohill, Co. Leitrim, Ireland ... Dennis Hunt http://www.bytown.net/fitzroy.htm " ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net
All viewers of KET pbs stations will not have a chance to view ON EAGLE'S WINGS. I received this e-mail from them. John Erwin > Hello: > > Your note was forwarded to me for response. > > We appreciate your interest in the program "On Eagle's Wings." > Unfortunately, KET will not be airing this program in the near future. > > This is a pledge program and while most stations pledge in August when > the show is offered, KET doesn't. We may run the program during our > pledge period next March. I will be happy to keep your name and e-mail > address and let you know if it is scheduled then. > > Janie xxxxxx > Viewer Services
Hi folks, if there's anyone stuck on the list who can't get off, email me. Or anyone on the list who can't post. I just helped one person post who couldn't (ISP added a .au onta the email addy) and yesterday there was the guy who sent me a REMOVE all the time. I emailed him as I dashed off to my version of church explaining how to unsub. He implemented half the advice and not the rest. Maybe missing half his brain....I donno!! I unsubbed him today and got an email back saying "REMOVE" <grin>. I only hope I am making more sense. In any case REMOVE doesn't work -- software is too stupid. It's Unsubscribe. If anyone else is 'stuck', email me (not the list). Linda Merle (list admin) ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net
Hi folks, In researching for someone else, found this in "Ontario Marriage Notices", by Wilson, Thomas B. publisher: Lambertville, N.J. : Hunterdon House,1982, viewed in New England Historic Genealogical LIbrary: P 255 The Church (Anglican Publication) 25 March 1852 In this City on 18th Tullias H ONeill and Jane, eldest dau of William Ritchey, formerly of Ballina Co. Mayo, Ire., by Rev. Stephen Lett . Apparently from reading other things, the majority of the Irish in Ontario were Protestants and appear to have been from places in Ireland OTHER than Ulster. Places like Mayo and Tipperary, not to mention Dublin, once were predominantly Protestant. Those people left. Where did they go? Canada, apparently. (Scanned a few books on the Irish in Canada and that's what they say...). So in any case, here's one from Mayo. I believe this guy was 'well off', the William R. who frequently had an Esq. after his name and married off various daughters. Also search for McRichie, Richie, and Ritchie when searching this searchname. .... etc. I am not researching this man. If I find evidence of migrations when doing other research, I try to copy them out and post them here. The archives are FULL of these. See www.rootsweb.com (Go to Email Archives, select interactive search type in Scotch-Irish, search. Gotta search each year separately. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net
I purchased a DVD of this about a year ago. Can't remember the place, but think it was a site mentioned on this site. Donna
The Jersey County, Illinois, history states that my RUSK family immigrated from Antrim, Ireland. They include: James, born ca 1772 David, born ca 1773 John, born unk. They came to US between 1791-1803 and settled initially in upcountry South Carolina. David and James went to Georgia. The bulk of James's family then went to Illinois in 1830--David's clan stayed in Georgia.. They were Methodist. I have been unsuccessful in trying to find records online for Antrim during 18th century. The Antrim mailing list folk appear to have kinsmen who came later to the US. Any suggestions on determining where in Antrim these folks might have come? Thank you, Cynthia in California
I think that you can request these programs be aired from you local PBS station or you PBS provider on the DISH NETWORK. Can't hurt to try anyway. John Erwin
I have WKPC as my PBS station. I do not see it on the list for On Eagle's Wings. This channel has been showing "The Appalachians" series which has told the story of the Scotch-Irish from Northern Ireland to the Appalachian Mtns. I think everyone on this list would enjoy watching this bit of our history. John Erwin
Hi folks I have just spent a happy hour + at www.booksulster.com who have revamped their web site to include e-books on Ulster eg parts of Griffiths Valuations @£4.99 (about US $9) which are pdf format downloadable on line. They also have a Library of Ireland which is a reference source that is FREE and contains several very interesting books (to me) and probably to you. And, of course, they have their own new/used books section that is searchable by keyword and author/title. Its so easy to spend money there !! Enjoy Brian Orr brian@orrnamestudy.com
Hi Forrest > "Immigration of the Irish Quakers into >Pennsylvania 1682-1750" by Albert Cook Myers This is a good book. It's now in Ancestry.com. One can also find a HUGE amount of Quaker info on the web. >Question Linda: I see the Geographical location called Ulster mentioned in >this group quite often. Ireland has been, since prehistoric times, divided into 4 or 5 provinces. Ulster is the one to the north. The counties were created by the Normans. Except in Ulster where some were not really created until the early 1600s by the English. Whatever! It comprises nine counties, only some of them in the country that has existed since the separation in 1922. http://www.irelandgenweb.com/county.html has more info. While researching the Hollingsworths for another >member of this list I came across this: >Henry Hollingsworth b: 1600 Armagn, Ireland (Ulster Plantation) That's Armagh, pronounced Armaaaaa. >Is this part of what you people are talking about? What is Ulster, where is >it located? (I told you I was pretty ignorant about Ireland!) It is in Ulster, the country of Northern Ireland. Armagh was the ecclesiastical center of Ireland. It was an English plantation, still noted for its apple trees and Navan Fort. http://jahtruth.co.uk/navan.htm http://www.countyarmagh.com/armagh_heritage_cathederal.htm Map here: http://www.irishtourist.com/details/navan_fort_and_centre.shtml Good luck with the Hollingsworth family! Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net
Does anyone know the air date on DISH NETWORK?
I want to thank the list for thier many recomendations of books. I would like to add a book to the list: "Immigration of the Irish Quakers into Pennsylvania 1682-1750" by Albert Cook Myers FHC Reel No 1036555. I now have that book on indefinate loan at the FHC. Will be glad to do any look ups from that book, it includes Monthly Meeting Minutes from Ireland. I can not guarentee the timelyness of my replies however. Question Linda: I see the Geographical location called Ulster mentioned in this group quite often. While researching the Hollingsworths for another member of this list I came across this: Henry Hollingsworth b: 1600 Armagn, Ireland (Ulster Plantation) Is this part of what you people are talking about? What is Ulster, where is it located? (I told you I was pretty ignorant about Ireland!) Lastly for anybody researching the Hollingsworth family in general, and the Valentine Hollingsworth family in particular you can click on the link below then click on Quaker Index from the Main Index you will find parts of the The Hollingsworth Register by John V. Hollingsworth. There is a lot of great information on the family there. Don't worry if you hit a link and find no page there, I am still working on that section! Forrest Plumstead WB5HQO San Antonio, Texas, USA http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum Plumstead and Associated Families ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com>; "Forrest Plumstead" <fplum1@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Hello New to Group > Hi Forest, there's a lot on Irish Quakers. There's a number of other published books. You need to of course read them (not just do name lookups) if you want to understand Quakerism in Ireland. > > Also in my experience tracing Quakers, do not assume there was a huge wall between PA and MD. In fact the boundary was unclear until Mason and Dixon. Check both places. > > The definitive work on Ireland is Falley "Irish and Scotch Irish Ancestral History". This 2 vol work is in most libraries. It has a whole chapter on Irish Quakers and their records. > > You can also find information in books like Ryan "Irish Records". > > I told you privately where Irish Quaker records are kept, the index to them, and where to get them in the USA. If anyone else wants this info, email me. I'll post to the list and hope someone can add to it. (I already have posted it to the list but who searches the archives? I sure don't!!) > > Best of luck! > > Linda Merle > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Forrest Plumstead" <fplum1@gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 16:10:15 -0500 > > >>I confess that I know very little about Ireland. I am interested in additional information about County Armagh, Irish Quakers, Irish Hobsons. > > > >Meanwhile I will sit back and continue enjoying reading your posts. > > > >Forrest Plumstead > > > >San Antonio, Texas USA > > > >Plumstead and Associated Families http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net > > > >
Hi folks, here's repeat of the Irish Quaker post in the archives as requested by a list member. Linda Merle IDate: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:11:27 -0700 From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <200408091311.AA13500560@mail.fea.net> Subject: Irish Quaker Records Hi folks, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to find three key things: 1. Indexes to Irish Quaker records 2. Quaker Irish Records 3. Access to the above IN THE USA. Then of course, I want to get my grubby hands on any actual records where the surname occurs -- IN THE USA. The good news is I HAVE DONE THIS. Hurray!! I'll put some results here then improve them and put them on our website. Maybe people can add in comments or ask questions that I can try to find an answer to before we 'go there'. Before I start YES I know about the Hicksites. You always have to say that before saying much beyond "Quaker" or someone emails you a little lecture about the Hicksites (etc, etc). Thanks but, yes, I DO know about them. Save your carpal tunnel for my next subject <grin>. The details of some of this are in Falley "Irish and Scotch Irish Ancestral Research". This two volume work is the Bible of Irish genealogy. If you want to know anything, check it. However like the Bible, it is old and in its case, a bit out of date. Records "move" and new indexes are created. So! moving on.... before you start, you need to understand that Irish Quaker records are stored in TWO places, historically. There's the Ulster Friends records, on film at PRONI (www.proni.nics.uk -- Public Records Office of Northern Ireland. If I use more abreviations, try www.google.com to research them. It's training in how to do research and that's how you learn to do it: by doing it) and Dublin at the National Library (now called the National Archives, I believe). Only one set of registers from the Ulster Friends is in Dublin since we can't have perfection..... The Ulster Friends Records: The Public Records of Northern Ireland filmed the Ulster records and then indexed them. This index is included in the Report of the Deputy Keeper of the Records 1951-1953 (pp 29-309). To use this index you must find a copy. USA Availablity: LDS has a copy on microfilm: FHL BRITISH Film 888989. Swarthmore in Swarthmore, PA, a major Quaker repository, also has a copy. Having found a copy, you check the index for the surname of interest as well as all possible variants. The results will be something like: McCamish, Horatio Lurgan, 1702 . It doesnt say what kind of record that the surname is in: birth, death, marriage registers or records, monthly meetings, wills. The index contains the names of all individuals in the Friends weddings. All attendees of these weddings is listed as a witness. National Library of Ireland (Dublin): Earlier records before 1859 are NOT included in this index. US Availability: It is at Swarthmore. It is in LDS entitled "Ttranscripts of the national register of the Society of Friends, 1859-1949, Author: Society of Friends Contents: Births, 1859-1949 -- Marriages, 1859-1949 -- Deaths, 1859-1909 -- Yearly meeting register of deaths, 1909-1949 FHL BRITISH Film 571399 So that COVERS IT. By ordering TWO FILM, you can search the Quaker records of Ireland. To view the records themselves, you'll want to order the film from LDS or go to Swarthmore. There's another index that indexes the Quaker records in LDS which TO ME look like the Dublin collection. If that is so, then the Jones Index indexes ALL of the Dublin collection, not just the ones in 1859 and later. Jones index to Quaker births, marriages & deaths in Ireland's Monthly Meetings, ca. 1606-1872 is in LDS. The author is Society of Friends. The notes indicate it is a surname index to Quakers who appear in the vital records of the Monthly Meetings that are on microfilm at the Family History Library, Salt Lake City. FHL BRITISH Film 1559454 Item 10. The Irish Quaker records filmed by LDS are labeled as Society of Friends, Ireland, register transcripts of monthly meetings, 1605-1872: FHL BRITISH Film 571395 Carlow Monthly Meeting (Co. Carlow): Births 1607-1859; Marriages 1649-1847; Deaths 1655-1860. Cork Monthly Meeting (Co. Cork): Births 1625-1860; Marriages 1679-1860; Deaths 1664-1860; Dublin Monthly Meeting (Co. Dublin): Births 1606-1861; Marriages 1631-1872; Deaths 1647-1860 (A-S). FHL BRITISH Film 571396 Dublin Monthly meeting (cont.): Deaths 1647-1860 (S-Y). Edenderry Monthly Meeting (Co. Offaly/Kings): Births 1612-1846; Marriages 1652-1810; Deaths 1680-1860. Grange Monthly Meeting (Co. Tyrone): Births 1653-1861; Marriages 1678-1854; Deaths 1730-1858. Lisburn Monthly Meeting (Cos. Antrim & Down): Births 1719-1858; Marriages 1717-1858; Deaths 1738-1858. Limerick Monthly Meeting (Co. Limerick): Births 1623-1862; Marriages 1652-1863; Deaths 1619-1862. Lurgan Monthly Meeting (Co. Armagh): Births 1607-1862; Marriages 1634-1854; Deaths 1658-1862. Moate Monthly Meeting (Co. Westmeath): Births 1605-1859; Marriages 1647-1840; Deaths 1660-1858. FHL BRITISH Film 571397 Mountmellick Monthly Meeting (Co. Leix/Queens): Births 1613-1860; Marriages 1650-1860; Deaths 1648-1860. Rich Hill Monthly Meeting (Co. Armagh): Births 1675-1862; Marriages 1607-1857; Deaths 1681-1862. FHL BRITISH Film 571398 Tipperary Monthly Meeting (Co. Tipperary): Births ca.1616-1857; Marriages ca.1649-1856; Deaths, ca.1657-1859. Waterford Monthly Meeting (Co. Waterford): Births, ca.1624-1862; Marriages, ca.1650-1860; Deaths, ca.1656-1860. Wexford Monthly Meeting (Co. Wexford): Births, ca.1646-1858; Marriages, ca.1678-1862; Deaths, ca.1653-1857. Wicklow Monthly Meeting (Co. Wicklow): Births, ca.1627-1811; Marriages, 1637-1799; Deaths. ca.1663-1806. Youghal Monthly Meeting (Co. Cork): Births, ca.1661-1839; Marriages, ca.1652-1825; Deaths, ca.1675-1839. These appear to be what is in Dublin, not Belfast. I'm still trying to see if the Ulster Friends records are in LDS. Can anyone confirm or deny? They were filmed onto 4 film by PRONI and those 4 film are in Swarthmore. I have viewed them in Swarthmore. Question I have is are they anywhere else? (Yes, know about the Hicksites and other variants. Thanks for your concern. Good luck with the carpal tunnel) Linda Merle Linda Merle Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:11:27 -0700 Hi folks, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to find three key things: 1. Indexes to Irish Quaker records 2. Quaker Irish Records 3. Access to the above IN THE USA. Then of course, I want to get my grubby hands on any actual records where the surname occurs -- IN THE USA. The good news is I HAVE DONE THIS. Hurray!! I'll put some results here then improve them and put them on our website. Maybe people can add in comments or ask questions that I can try to find an answer to before we 'go there'. Before I start YES I know about the Hicksites. You always have to say that before saying much beyond "Quaker" or someone emails you a little lecture about the Hicksites (etc, etc). Thanks but, yes, I DO know about them. Save your carpal tunnel for my next subject <grin>. The details of some of this are in Falley "Irish and Scotch Irish Ancestral Research". This two volume work is the Bible of Irish genealogy. If you want to know anything, check it. However like the Bible, it is old and in its case, a bit out of date. Records "move" and new indexes are created. So! moving on.... before you start, you need to understand that Irish Quaker records are stored in TWO places, historically. There's the Ulster Friends records, on film at PRONI (www.proni.nics.uk -- Public Records Office of Northern Ireland. If I use more abreviations, try www.google.com to research them. It's training in how to do research and that's how you learn to do it: by doing it) and Dublin at the National Library (now called the National Archives, I believe). Only one set of registers from the Ulster Friends is in Dublin since we can't have perfection..... The Ulster Friends Records: The Public Records of Northern Ireland filmed the Ulster records and then indexed them. This index is included in the Report of the Deputy Keeper of the Records 1951-1953 (pp 29-309). To use this index you must find a copy. USA Availablity: LDS has a copy on microfilm: FHL BRITISH Film 888989. Swarthmore in Swarthmore, PA, a major Quaker repository, also has a copy. Having found a copy, you check the index for the surname of interest as well as all possible variants. The results will be something like: McCamish, Horatio Lurgan, 1702 . It doesnt say what kind of record that the surname is in: birth, death, marriage registers or records, monthly meetings, wills. The index contains the names of all individuals in the Friends weddings. All attendees of these weddings is listed as a witness. National Library of Ireland (Dublin): Earlier records before 1859 are NOT included in this index. US Availability: It is at Swarthmore. It is in LDS entitled "Ttranscripts of the national register of the Society of Friends, 1859-1949, Author: Society of Friends Contents: Births, 1859-1949 -- Marriages, 1859-1949 -- Deaths, 1859-1909 -- Yearly meeting register of deaths, 1909-1949 FHL BRITISH Film 571399 So that COVERS IT. By ordering TWO FILM, you can search the Quaker records of Ireland. To view the records themselves, you'll want to order the film from LDS or go to Swarthmore. There's another index that indexes the Quaker records in LDS which TO ME look like the Dublin collection. If that is so, then the Jones Index indexes ALL of the Dublin collection, not just the ones in 1859 and later. Jones index to Quaker births, marriages & deaths in Ireland's Monthly Meetings, ca. 1606-1872 is in LDS. The author is Society of Friends. The notes indicate it is a surname index to Quakers who appear in the vital records of the Monthly Meetings that are on microfilm at the Family History Library, Salt Lake City. FHL BRITISH Film 1559454 Item 10. The Irish Quaker records filmed by LDS are labeled as Society of Friends, Ireland, register transcripts of monthly meetings, 1605-1872: FHL BRITISH Film 571395 Carlow Monthly Meeting (Co. Carlow): Births 1607-1859; Marriages 1649-1847; Deaths 1655-1860. Cork Monthly Meeting (Co. Cork): Births 1625-1860; Marriages 1679-1860; Deaths 1664-1860; Dublin Monthly Meeting (Co. Dublin): Births 1606-1861; Marriages 1631-1872; Deaths 1647-1860 (A-S). FHL BRITISH Film 571396 Dublin Monthly meeting (cont.): Deaths 1647-1860 (S-Y). Edenderry Monthly Meeting (Co. Offaly/Kings): Births 1612-1846; Marriages 1652-1810; Deaths 1680-1860. Grange Monthly Meeting (Co. Tyrone): Births 1653-1861; Marriages 1678-1854; Deaths 1730-1858. Lisburn Monthly Meeting (Cos. Antrim & Down): Births 1719-1858; Marriages 1717-1858; Deaths 1738-1858. Limerick Monthly Meeting (Co. Limerick): Births 1623-1862; Marriages 1652-1863; Deaths 1619-1862. Lurgan Monthly Meeting (Co. Armagh): Births 1607-1862; Marriages 1634-1854; Deaths 1658-1862. Moate Monthly Meeting (Co. Westmeath): Births 1605-1859; Marriages 1647-1840; Deaths 1660-1858. FHL BRITISH Film 571397 Mountmellick Monthly Meeting (Co. Leix/Queens): Births 1613-1860; Marriages 1650-1860; Deaths 1648-1860. Rich Hill Monthly Meeting (Co. Armagh): Births 1675-1862; Marriages 1607-1857; Deaths 1681-1862. FHL BRITISH Film 571398 Tipperary Monthly Meeting (Co. Tipperary): Births ca.1616-1857; Marriages ca.1649-1856; Deaths, ca.1657-1859. Waterford Monthly Meeting (Co. Waterford): Births, ca.1624-1862; Marriages, ca.1650-1860; Deaths, ca.1656-1860. Wexford Monthly Meeting (Co. Wexford): Births, ca.1646-1858; Marriages, ca.1678-1862; Deaths, ca.1653-1857. Wicklow Monthly Meeting (Co. Wicklow): Births, ca.1627-1811; Marriages, 1637-1799; Deaths. ca.1663-1806. Youghal Monthly Meeting (Co. Cork): Births, ca.1661-1839; Marriages, ca.1652-1825; Deaths, ca.1675-1839. These appear to be what is in Dublin, not Belfast. I'm still trying to see if the Ulster Friends records are in LDS. Can anyone confirm or deny? They were filmed onto 4 film by PRONI and those 4 film are in Swarthmore. I have viewed them in Swarthmore. Question I have is are they anywhere else? (Yes, know about the Hicksites and other variants. Thanks for your concern.) Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net