Hello List This is my first posting to this list. Does anyone know of a location with this name? I am delving into my grandmothers family the Pentlands, who came from Gilford, Co Down; Mullaghbrack, Co Armagh; Tartaragan, Co Armagh and later Lurgan, Co Armagh but I have become very aware that they originated in Scotland before that and in Orkey before that. My Gran's Grandfather, who I believe she never knew, was a Robert Pentland who is alledged to have been a Land Agent? If anyone can offer me any information or sources to find out who of the family and when the Pentlands went to Ireland - we suspect c 1670 and that they went to the Ards peninsular of Co Down - I would be very grateful. I have found Pentland connections in to the very origins of the LDS and my cousins in USA have had only the same problems in finding data as have I. Particularly interesting and sought by us is any information on the family and siblings of George William Pentland of Gilford Count Down thought to have been born there in 1778 and who later married Mary Allison Armor Graham. We have two children of that marriage and a deal of their descendants. Other associated families are - Beattie of Aughlsh \ Magheralin, Down, Ireland; McClelland of Greenan, Loughbrickland OR Aughlsh \ Magheralin, Down, Ireland; Frier of Lurgan. I hope some of you may have ideas we can pursue. Colin

Having had a computer crash, I have been three months trying to get things moving once again. With this has come a change in ISPs, so if we have been corresponding please update your records from: AudreyShieldsHancock@att.net to this: AudreyHancock1939@sbcglobal.net I have now updated my SHIELDS/SHEILDS, etc. DNA results and other linking webpages. If you wish to check these out, here are the websites which have links to other information: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~grannyapple/SHIELDS%20DNA/SHIELDS%2 0DNA%20HOME.html or access via: http://tinyurl.com/hogf Click on the RESULTS link in the green section on the left to link to the RESULTS webpage. To check out each researcher's or the participant's lineage information click on the CHART #. This link will also get you to different webpages: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~grannyapple/SHIELDS%20DNA/EARLIEST% 20ANCESTORS%20CHARTS%20HOME.html or access via: http://tinyurl.com/ho8z Many participants and/or their researchers would be delighted to find others who might match their lines. If you find any information that might match what you know about your line, please contact the researcher(s) so you can compare research and information further. Also, we would be delighted to have more participants join in the quest. Audrey

I just picked up on this McKenzie/Kinney/McKinney discussion. Good to catch one on the list. If anyone studys northern Ireland Kinney (and variant) info in particular, feel free to keep me and my email address in mind if you don't post it on the list. :) While I dont have time to read every digest of this list in detail, I do searches once in a while on the archives.. so I'll catch it sooner or later. Mark Kinney > Dear Walt, > > Here is what Camac has to say about the McKinneys of Derrykeighan in his > book (Pub. 1911?) on the history of that Parish. Derrykeighan is a rural > parish in North Antrim and is about 5 miles (8Km) north east of Ballymoney > town. I have searched for the McKinney gravestone at Derrykeighan cemetery > without success. > > Norman > > "It is worthy of note that neither a M'Kinney or Chestnut now own an acre > of land in Carnaff. The last of the M'Kinneys to hold a farm here was > Samuel, who died in 1882, a man of a superior education, but of indolent > habits, and a most accurate land surveyor. The tradition among the M'Kinneys > is that several brothers came from Inverness early in the seventeenth > century. Two settled in the Derrykeighan district, one at Feigh, > Dunseverick, and one at Sheeans, Armoy. The name has still been variously > pronounced or spelled M'Kinney, M'Elhinney, M'Kenzie, and Kinney. There is > an armorial stone in Ballintoy belonging to the Dunseverick family, whilst a > plot of ground at the west wall of Derrykeighan churchyard is the family > sepulchre of many M'Kinneys, about whose kinship there can be no doubt. The > oldest date on any stone belonging to this family here is 1742." >

Dear Walt, Here is what Camac has to say about the McKinneys of Derrykeighan in his book (Pub. 1911?) on the history of that Parish. Derrykeighan is a rural parish in North Antrim and is about 5 miles (8Km) north east of Ballymoney town. I have searched for the McKinney gravestone at Derrykeighan cemetery without success. Norman "It is worthy of note that neither a M'Kinney or Chestnut now own an acre of land in Carnaff. The last of the M'Kinneys to hold a farm here was Samuel, who died in 1882, a man of a superior education, but of indolent habits, and a most accurate land surveyor. The tradition among the M'Kinneys is that several brothers came from Inverness early in the seventeenth century. Two settled in the Derrykeighan district, one at Feigh, Dunseverick, and one at Sheeans, Armoy. The name has still been variously pronounced or spelled M'Kinney, M'Elhinney, M'Kenzie, and Kinney. There is an armorial stone in Ballintoy belonging to the Dunseverick family, whilst a plot of ground at the west wall of Derrykeighan churchyard is the family sepulchre of many M'Kinneys, about whose kinship there can be no doubt. The oldest date on any stone belonging to this family here is 1742."

Norman , Great new info ! Thanks very much. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "N.E.Parkes" <N.E.Parkes@btinternet.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] McKENZIE - Ire,Eng,Scot,US - 1871to1907 > Dear Walt, > > Here is what Camac has to say about the McKinneys of Derrykeighan in his > book (Pub. 1911?) on the history of that Parish. Derrykeighan is a rural > parish in North Antrim and is about 5 miles (8Km) north east of Ballymoney > town. I have searched for the McKinney gravestone at Derrykeighan cemetery > without success. > > Norman > > "It is worthy of note that neither a M'Kinney or Chestnut now own an acre > of land in Carnaff. The last of the M'Kinneys to hold a farm here was > Samuel, who died in 1882, a man of a superior education, but of indolent > habits, and a most accurate land surveyor. The tradition among the M'Kinneys > is that several brothers came from Inverness early in the seventeenth > century. Two settled in the Derrykeighan district, one at Feigh, > Dunseverick, and one at Sheeans, Armoy. The name has still been variously > pronounced or spelled M'Kinney, M'Elhinney, M'Kenzie, and Kinney. There is > an armorial stone in Ballintoy belonging to the Dunseverick family, whilst a > plot of ground at the west wall of Derrykeighan churchyard is the family > sepulchre of many M'Kinneys, about whose kinship there can be no doubt. The > oldest date on any stone belonging to this family here is 1742." > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.0/134 - Release Date: 10/14/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.0/134 - Release Date: 10/14/2005

Thanks to all who replied to my SOS re: Edward Parks, both on and off-list. I am currently checking into the Waringstown possibility -- it sounds promising. Linda, I spent three excruciating days at NARA in New York City last month combing the passenger lists on microfilm, looking for two months on either side of Edward's proclaimed arrival date on his naturalization papers, turning up nothing other than severe eyestrain and headaches. I have only been that thorough with the New York arrivals, because basically I'm assuming he wouldn't lie or misrepresent himself on his application for naturalization, while he might be more casual with the truth on other, less important, documents. I assumed if I could pinpoint his townland with some certainty, I could then begin checking the FHL microfilms for any church records that might have been indexed, as well as write off to others that are still in existence. Is this not the case? I agree, people change their religion every day -- but I think they did it less in the mid to late 1800's, and particularly in that part of the world. That he made certain so often on American church records and censuses that "N. Ireland" was specified, even before the Irish Free State and Ulster split apart politically, I felt that he was making a statement, that it was important to him to be differentiated, possibly for religious reasons. I have absolutely no intention whatsoever of <<can pay to have a search done of indexes for records that are indexed -- 32 times>> which is why I'm trying so hard to ascertain his townland. As far as getting every bit of info on Edward AFTER his arrival, to the best of my ability, I've done that. I've gotten death, baptismal, marriage certificates and burial information on him and all nine of his children, wife, and inlaws, obits for those I've been able to find, etc., etc. ad nauseum. Apparently, poor, landless, Irish immigrants did not leave a wealth of documentation around, even after they landed in the States, but I will re-read THE SOURCE one more time and see if there's anything I might have missed. Again, thank you all for your thoughts, guidance and suggestions. I wish you all the best in your own research. Julie Anne Parks Searching: Parks, Finley, Doherty, Donnelly, Flynn, McAvoy, Mahoney Hettrick, Cassidy, Donahoe, Donahue, Timmons, Winrow

Hi Julie, >Linda, I spent three excruciating days at NARA in New York City last month >combing the passenger lists on microfilm, looking for two months on either side >of Edward's proclaimed arrival date on his naturalization papers, turning up >nothing other than severe eyestrain and headaches. Then here is what I suggest, which you will not like: hire an expert. I have done this personally on a couple problems and gotten very good results. I have also done it for clients and gotten very good results as well. I know I didn't like hearing it the first time. If the expert cannot locate him, then you know he isn't in those records. If the expert does, then you have the information. An expert is someone who has a lot of experience with New York Passenger lists (It doesn't matter if the person does it free or is 'certified', etc: what matters is that they know this record WELL). The second thing you must do is let the expert do the job. The expert I consulted in an English Civil Registration problem insisted on checking the censuses too, though I had already done that. I was stupid. He used the censuses to 'triangulate' the civil registration results and ultimately produced the records I needed - with proof that they were the right ones despite some inconsistent information.) Seriously, this is the only way to go beyond going back and looking more yourself. > I have only been that >thorough with the New York arrivals, because basically I'm assuming he wouldn't lie >or misrepresent himself on his application for naturalization, while he might >be more casual with the truth on other, less important, documents. Right, I agree, that's why I think it is there. I would also have the expert inspect the naturalization records too for some small clue that might strike the expert as important and that we'd all miss. On the professional list I am on, people do this all th e time. They know that they can't know everything and that when a diligent search doesn't produce the expected results, it's time for an expert. Seriously, I looked for a Tennesee grant for months and months. The man's will left 200 acres to a son: the 200 acres 'granted by North Carolina' (Tn was NC then....). I got an expert. Took him 2 minutes to find it and cost $3. The problem was the man didn't get a warrant. He bought it from another man so he wasn't in the warrant index. He also was missing from TN indexes for grants. Probably in the county index -- it wasn't filmed or available to me. The source used by the expert was not available to me. Next time I know the books to check!! (I don't claim to do TN genealogy...esp. after THIS experience <grin>). >I assumed if I could pinpoint his townland with some certainty, I could then >begin checking the FHL microfilms for any church records that might have been >indexed, as well as write off to others that are still in existence. Is this >not the case? Yes, that's a good way to go. There are not a lot of Irish church records filmed by LDS. There's a collection from Ulster that I have used a lot by I think Mettam. But it's only a handful of churches. It's probably 'worth it' to run him through the aggregated indexes. For Co Down and Antrim The Ulster Foundation has indexed them. You can find them on the web. This makes sense if you can narrow it down. Warrington does sound promising. However most people in Ulster didn't necessarily go to the nearest church. The Catholics attende their parish and so do the Church of Irelanders. A third of the church of Ireland parish records burnt up in 1922. The Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc, they all could go wherever they liked. In Warrington, people could go to church in Louth if they wanted. We tend to get too fixed on county lines as barriers. To spend a hundred or so dollars searching all the indexed church records in ANtrim and Down is an immense bargain, but if Warrington is where he's from and you can't find any records, consider Louth. > That he made certain so often on American church records and >censuses that "N. Ireland" was specified, even before the Irish Free State and Ulster >split apart politically, I felt that he was making a statement, that it was >important to him to be differentiated, possibly for religious reasons. I think he was making a statement about the "north of Ireland", a region. Unless he was psychic, before 1922 he could not have known most would be a different country. However people deeply into the regional identity of Ulster would probably be Protestant, so I agree with you about it suggesting his religious bent. > I have >absolutely no intention whatsoever of <<can pay to have a search done of >indexes for records that are indexed -- 32 times>> which is why I'm trying so hard >to ascertain his townland. This would result in a lot of money spent and not very good results, as we don't know if he appears in any church records that are available at all. Many are not indexed or never existed. NOT the way to go in Ireland until you have specifics. Since you have the name of his parents, consider searching the civil registration indexes for other children born with the same parents to get the location. LDS has the indexes. Or even for the marriage of the parents. You may want to hire someone to look at all the stuff you have collected to see if he/she can find any key clues. This struck me when I first was told it as very stupid advice, but <gulp>! I've found a number of times that I did have the evidence in my files but couldn't see it. Fresh eyes help. I am lucky enough to have a sister who is good at finding my blindspots <grin>....free!! >Apparently, poor, landless, Irish immigrants did not leave a wealth of documentation >around, even after they landed in the States, but I will re-read THE SOURCE one >more time and see if there's anything I might have missed. This is the truth....Still all you need is one clue, one inadvertent slip by one grandchild who has one other findable placename, for example. A middle name that is unique to a place in Ireland, the name of a family camp that is named after an Irish placename....anything. Another possiblity is to widen the search to include more associates and neighbors. This is advice I also thought was very stupid when I first heard it. I think we were working on KELLYS at the time. OUr idea was to make a spreadsheet of every old Kelly in Westmoreland Co and to reserach them all to determine if they were the parents of our brick wall great great granddaddie. A lot of work. However in the census there is ONE Kelly family in the township and instead we were able to find connections in court cases. We also realized that the witness to his will was not the local minister but the minster son of another ancestor of ours who was minister at the RP Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg. We researched that congregation and did learn there was a KELLY family in early Wilkinsburg associated with the RP church. That means we have two good leads on Kelly families in two specifical locales with known connections. So we revised our opinion of this piece of advice too <grin>. The name of the witness was one of those pices of info we had in our files for decades but the significance of the witness to the will never hit us. I have learned most of what I know the hard way !! I think if you keep chugging on you'll bag your man. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hello Julie Ann, Your "Wellingstown" sound remarkably like "Waringstown" which is in County Down , Parish of Donaghcloney.On a map is just east of the town of Lurgan and Portadown. best regards Robert www.ulsterancestry.com >From: JParks1393@aol.com >To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [Sc-Ir] Another elusive Scots-Irish >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:03:56 EDT > >Hello list: Feel like tackling yet another elusive Scots-Irishman? > >Edward Parks was born somewhere between 1856-1863 in "N. Ireland" according >to the 1910, 1920, 1930 US censuses, his death certificate and his marriage >license. Of course, also on those same censuses, he was 50 in 1920, 50 in >1930 >and 50 when he died in 1934. According to his naturalization papers, he was >born in 1856 ... according to his marriage license, he was born in 1863. >(Mathematically challenged, to say the least or else he tapped into Ponce >de Leon's >Fountain of Youth.) His naturalization papers state he arrived at the Port >of >New York on 15 July 1886 -- he's not on any immigration list anywhere, even >on >boats that arrived on that date. I checked the Canadian lists, thinking he >might have snuck over the border and also checked Baltimore, Gulf Coasts, >Philadelphia and San Francisco as well as checked into Australia in case he >went >their first in chains. Nada. Nowhere. Maybe he rowed across. > >To complicate matters, he stated on his marriage certificate that he was >from >"Wellingstown, N. Ireland" Turns out there isn't any such place. There >are >four different streets named "Wellington" in Belfast, there was a farm >named >"Wellington Lodge" in County Down, and there is a Wellington townland in >Co. >Tipperary which I've discarded entirely because he was always careful to >specify >"North of Ireland" as if it were an important designation to him. There is >a >"Warrington" in Northern Ireland...could that possibly sound like >"Wellingstown" to an untrained American ear if said in a broad Ulster >accent? > >I assume he was a Protestant because a) "Parks" is an English name >originally, b) all the Parks families I've found in Ireland were >Protestants and c) all >the Parks families I've found in Scotland were Protestants. But he married >an >Irish Catholic woman in a Baptist Church in New York, raised all his kids >Catholic and is now buried in a Catholic cemetery. > >His father was Samuel Parks, his mother Elizabeth McAvoy/McEvoy or >MacElvoy. > >I can't start writing away for church records when I have no idea where to >look. Any guidance/thoughts will be much appreciated. > >Julie Anne Parks > >Searching: Parks, Finley, Doherty, Donnelly, Flynn, McAvoy, Mahoney >Hettrick, Cassidy, Donahoe, Donahue, Timmons, Winrow > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger 7.5 is now out. Download it for FREE here. http://messenger.msn.co.uk

Thanks, Linda, for all of the great information that you always so willingly provide! I have not spent any time yet looking in Ireland, but I am discouraged before I begin since my Irish or Scotch-Irish ancestors came to the US in the very early 1800s - and they have names like Johnson/Johnston, McGuire and MacDonald!! I'm thinking the best I might be able to do is learn as much as possible about the areas they came from and leave the lives of those before to my imagination. Tracy -----Original Message----- From: Linda Merle [mailto:merle@mail.fea.net] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:50 AM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Another elusive Scots-Irish Hi Julie, I question what the various censuses actually say regarding his birth place. "N Ireland" -- if you mean "Northern Ireland" didn't exist till 1922. It's remotely possible that 'the north of Ireland' was indicated in all those censues, but I question it. It's very common for ages to differ in the censuses and with other sources. Learning to deal with this is a common topic in genealogy lectures, articles, etc....I can't digest all that stuff here.... It's not even surprising that they differ.... It would be surprising if they didnt. > His naturalization papers state he arrived at the Port of >New York on 15 July 1886 -- he's not on any immigration list anywhere, even on >boats that arrived on that date. I checked the Canadian lists, thinking he The only way to find this is to search the ship lists of all ships arriving on that date sequentially. They are not indexed. If you pick up a book like "The Source" it will tell you what is indexed and what is not. As I said in an earlier post, the New York ship lists aren't all indexed. If you don't find him on THAT date, then you search several days before and after. It's tedious work. I've done it at an LDS library that had all the film there. This helped for speed and cost. I do not think Ancestry has 1886 indexed yet, but it is not difficult to tell.... >might have snuck over the border and also checked Baltimore, Gulf Coasts, >Philadelphia and San Francisco as well as checked into Australia in case he went >their first in chains. Nada. Nowhere. Maybe he rowed across. Again, unless you've checked the actual ship lists for these ports, you've not checked them. A few may be indexed -- I gave the (free) source I use a lot in a prior email. Most at your date won't be because of the volumes of ships arriving and the lack of volunteers to do the indexing <grin>. Not sure at all about how many of the Aussie arrivals are indexed but I would expect that they are not. A thorough search of the New York arrivals using microfilm of the actual ship lists is in order. If you did this, I'd do or have it done again, being careful to look for funny spellings. Indexes are always wrong at least 10% of the time. With the exact date, you should be checking the actual records, even if your search of an index has been negative. You cannot assume his religion by his surname. People change their religion all the time -- as you know <Grin>. >I can't start writing away for church records when I have no idea where to >look. Any guidance/thoughts will be much appreciated. My advice is to spend some time learning a bit more about him in the USA. I would (and while I do genealogy professionally, I still do this myself ALL THE TIME) re-read information in "The Source" and other important genealogy books on American ship lists and censuses. I would review all the data that you have. I would obtain obits. I would research all his children and get their death info, looking for additional clues. I would follow up on occupation related clues. I would then do a search again for the place in Ireland using reputable gazetteers. I would arm myself with some additional knowledge about Irish placenames, re-reading articles. I would re read my reference material on Ireland and make a list of the types of records that exist and that might help me find th is man in his time frame. I would then attempt to locate him in those surviving records. In doing this you will learn a lot, as I do every time I do it, that will help you. I am very curious as to where you think you will write for Irish Church Records. There really is not a single place to write. They are not agregated in any one spot. If you doubt what I say consult Ryan "Irish Records". You will see that many church records are still locally held. Many are aggregated by county. There are 32 counties in Ireland. So you can pay to have a search done of indexes for records that are indexed -- 32 times. You may find civil registration a better option. The biggest problem we all face with finding our ancestors is that we don't know how. We believe we do, but we don't. We don't bother to learn how the experts have gone about doing the research. We think that we can make do on the INternet though we don't know if records have ever existed that could be indexed and put on the internet (ie pre 1820 ship lists). So of course we can't succeed, even with 'easy' cases, let along hard ones. It's even possible that your family research has been completed by a cousin who published the research in a genealogy magazine. Have you checked PERSI? There are great free courses on how to do immigration research at www.genealogy.com/university.html . I got books I paid for that are not as good as these or as easy to use. When I start out with one of these, I review ALL the info and as I do so, I write down ideas of things to follow up on. If the information is not primary, I check the original. Ie I would be very surprised if every single census and document listed a country that didn't exist as his origin and birthplace. Could be (I've seen stranger <grin>) but you must check. Possibly there is a clue somewhere in these records. Finding that they all do say "North of Ireland" itself is a clue. Then you review the ideas you wrote down and you make a list. You go over the sources as I mentioned. There are some things that can be very difficult to follow up on. Others are easy. You start with the easy and methodically pursue them.At each step you consult reference books. You do this even when you use the INternet. Too many people use Ancestry and have not got an idea at all of what percentage of existing records are indexed in Ancestry. Thus they cannot possibly evaluate a negative result. They also can't then go find the rest of the records. When it comes to Irish research, due to records destruction and to records that were never recorded in the first place, one of the experts said in a lecture I heard that you need to spend a third of your time learning what records exist, a third figuring out how to get those records, and only a third looking at the records. He's right. So if we aren't doing all that reference work, it is hardly surprising that we can't get results. If the experts need to work this hard, you can bet the rest of us must work even harder. As we move earlier in time in Ireland, the records situation, which in the mid 1800s is different from the USAs (meaning we must learn how to do it or we screw up), gets far worse. In fact often in Irish genealogy classes, one is told it is not possible to do Irish genealogy before about 1820 unless you descend from the aristocracy. That's often not true but it is hard and requires a lot of effort. Best of luck!! Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hello list: Feel like tackling yet another elusive Scots-Irishman? Edward Parks was born somewhere between 1856-1863 in "N. Ireland" according to the 1910, 1920, 1930 US censuses, his death certificate and his marriage license. Of course, also on those same censuses, he was 50 in 1920, 50 in 1930 and 50 when he died in 1934. According to his naturalization papers, he was born in 1856 ... according to his marriage license, he was born in 1863. (Mathematically challenged, to say the least or else he tapped into Ponce de Leon's Fountain of Youth.) His naturalization papers state he arrived at the Port of New York on 15 July 1886 -- he's not on any immigration list anywhere, even on boats that arrived on that date. I checked the Canadian lists, thinking he might have snuck over the border and also checked Baltimore, Gulf Coasts, Philadelphia and San Francisco as well as checked into Australia in case he went their first in chains. Nada. Nowhere. Maybe he rowed across. To complicate matters, he stated on his marriage certificate that he was from "Wellingstown, N. Ireland" Turns out there isn't any such place. There are four different streets named "Wellington" in Belfast, there was a farm named "Wellington Lodge" in County Down, and there is a Wellington townland in Co. Tipperary which I've discarded entirely because he was always careful to specify "North of Ireland" as if it were an important designation to him. There is a "Warrington" in Northern Ireland...could that possibly sound like "Wellingstown" to an untrained American ear if said in a broad Ulster accent? I assume he was a Protestant because a) "Parks" is an English name originally, b) all the Parks families I've found in Ireland were Protestants and c) all the Parks families I've found in Scotland were Protestants. But he married an Irish Catholic woman in a Baptist Church in New York, raised all his kids Catholic and is now buried in a Catholic cemetery. His father was Samuel Parks, his mother Elizabeth McAvoy/McEvoy or MacElvoy. I can't start writing away for church records when I have no idea where to look. Any guidance/thoughts will be much appreciated. Julie Anne Parks Searching: Parks, Finley, Doherty, Donnelly, Flynn, McAvoy, Mahoney Hettrick, Cassidy, Donahoe, Donahue, Timmons, Winrow

Hi Julie, I question what the various censuses actually say regarding his birth place. "N Ireland" -- if you mean "Northern Ireland" didn't exist till 1922. It's remotely possible that 'the north of Ireland' was indicated in all those censues, but I question it. It's very common for ages to differ in the censuses and with other sources. Learning to deal with this is a common topic in genealogy lectures, articles, etc....I can't digest all that stuff here.... It's not even surprising that they differ.... It would be surprising if they didnt. > His naturalization papers state he arrived at the Port of >New York on 15 July 1886 -- he's not on any immigration list anywhere, even on >boats that arrived on that date. I checked the Canadian lists, thinking he The only way to find this is to search the ship lists of all ships arriving on that date sequentially. They are not indexed. If you pick up a book like "The Source" it will tell you what is indexed and what is not. As I said in an earlier post, the New York ship lists aren't all indexed. If you don't find him on THAT date, then you search several days before and after. It's tedious work. I've done it at an LDS library that had all the film there. This helped for speed and cost. I do not think Ancestry has 1886 indexed yet, but it is not difficult to tell.... >might have snuck over the border and also checked Baltimore, Gulf Coasts, >Philadelphia and San Francisco as well as checked into Australia in case he went >their first in chains. Nada. Nowhere. Maybe he rowed across. Again, unless you've checked the actual ship lists for these ports, you've not checked them. A few may be indexed -- I gave the (free) source I use a lot in a prior email. Most at your date won't be because of the volumes of ships arriving and the lack of volunteers to do the indexing <grin>. Not sure at all about how many of the Aussie arrivals are indexed but I would expect that they are not. A thorough search of the New York arrivals using microfilm of the actual ship lists is in order. If you did this, I'd do or have it done again, being careful to look for funny spellings. Indexes are always wrong at least 10% of the time. With the exact date, you should be checking the actual records, even if your search of an index has been negative. You cannot assume his religion by his surname. People change their religion all the time -- as you know <Grin>. >I can't start writing away for church records when I have no idea where to >look. Any guidance/thoughts will be much appreciated. My advice is to spend some time learning a bit more about him in the USA. I would (and while I do genealogy professionally, I still do this myself ALL THE TIME) re-read information in "The Source" and other important genealogy books on American ship lists and censuses. I would review all the data that you have. I would obtain obits. I would research all his children and get their death info, looking for additional clues. I would follow up on occupation related clues. I would then do a search again for the place in Ireland using reputable gazetteers. I would arm myself with some additional knowledge about Irish placenames, re-reading articles. I would re read my reference material on Ireland and make a list of the types of records that exist and that might help me find th is man in his time frame. I would then attempt to locate him in those surviving records. In doing this you will learn a lot, as I do every time I do it, that will help you. I am very curious as to where you think you will write for Irish Church Records. There really is not a single place to write. They are not agregated in any one spot. If you doubt what I say consult Ryan "Irish Records". You will see that many church records are still locally held. Many are aggregated by county. There are 32 counties in Ireland. So you can pay to have a search done of indexes for records that are indexed -- 32 times. You may find civil registration a better option. The biggest problem we all face with finding our ancestors is that we don't know how. We believe we do, but we don't. We don't bother to learn how the experts have gone about doing the research. We think that we can make do on the INternet though we don't know if records have ever existed that could be indexed and put on the internet (ie pre 1820 ship lists). So of course we can't succeed, even with 'easy' cases, let along hard ones. It's even possible that your family research has been completed by a cousin who published the research in a genealogy magazine. Have you checked PERSI? There are great free courses on how to do immigration research at www.genealogy.com/university.html . I got books I paid for that are not as good as these or as easy to use. When I start out with one of these, I review ALL the info and as I do so, I write down ideas of things to follow up on. If the information is not primary, I check the original. Ie I would be very surprised if every single census and document listed a country that didn't exist as his origin and birthplace. Could be (I've seen stranger <grin>) but you must check. Possibly there is a clue somewhere in these records. Finding that they all do say "North of Ireland" itself is a clue. Then you review the ideas you wrote down and you make a list. You go over the sources as I mentioned. There are some things that can be very difficult to follow up on. Others are easy. You start with the easy and methodically pursue them.At each step you consult reference books. You do this even when you use the INternet. Too many people use Ancestry and have not got an idea at all of what percentage of existing records are indexed in Ancestry. Thus they cannot possibly evaluate a negative result. They also can't then go find the rest of the records. When it comes to Irish research, due to records destruction and to records that were never recorded in the first place, one of the experts said in a lecture I heard that you need to spend a third of your time learning what records exist, a third figuring out how to get those records, and only a third looking at the records. He's right. So if we aren't doing all that reference work, it is hardly surprising that we can't get results. If the experts need to work this hard, you can bet the rest of us must work even harder. As we move earlier in time in Ireland, the records situation, which in the mid 1800s is different from the USAs (meaning we must learn how to do it or we screw up), gets far worse. In fact often in Irish genealogy classes, one is told it is not possible to do Irish genealogy before about 1820 unless you descend from the aristocracy. That's often not true but it is hard and requires a lot of effort. Best of luck!! Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi Karen , Great site http://www.ingeneas.com/ingeneas/index.html and user friendly . . . only $6.10. Hope you have good luck. If any difficulties let me know. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hart Anthony" <cushkaren@gwi.net> To: "Walt McKENZIE, Sr." <WaltIrish@comcast.net> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] McKENZIE - Ire,Eng,Scot,US - 1871to1907 > Please, Walt, could you share how you found out ship passenger records to > Canada. I have been trying to find any lists that can give me some > information about my grandfather's grandparents, Samuel Hart who married > Rebecca Kelly in Clare Presbyterian Church in Co. Armagh on March 15, 1840, > and left "immediately" or soon after to go to Canada. They settled in > Bishop's Mills, Ontario, which is south of Ottawa, Ontario. But I don't > know how they got fro Ireland (now Northern Ireland) to Canada. Can you > shed any light on this? or how I might go about discovering it? > Thanks so much, > Karen Hart Anthony > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Walt McKENZIE, Sr." <WaltIrish@comcast.net> > To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 3:47 PM > Subject: Fw: [Sc-Ir] McKENZIE - Ire,Eng,Scot,US - 1871to1907 > > >> Hi Linda, Thanks again for your great input. My brick-wall is Ire origin >> of Daniel McKenzie b.c. 1815. John not in US 1880 census but in 1900 he -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 10/12/2005

Good grief!!! I feel bad for you, but you seem to be keeping your spirits up. What a riot - albeit not fun I'm sure! Someday you'll look back and laugh at it all. I hope the rest of the transition goes smoother for you! Tracy -----Original Message----- From: Linda Merle [mailto:merle@mail.fea.net] Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:25 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Sc-Ir] Status Hi People, I'd like to thank the Rev. Andrews for his help with the list. I'm almost back. For new folks, I'm the usual list admin, involved in a move. The old house sold (big nightmare: terrible lender!!), moved 550 miles, camped out at parents while waiting for new house to close. Now camping out in new house waiting for furniture to arrive. Other than the buyer's lender, who delayed the sale for 4 days due to incompetancy (don't worry: I think they specialize in ruining the lives of Massachusetts Portagese families....), other nightmares: two cats lost. One in old place (still trying to have her trapped), one went AWOL at my parents (now living under their shed). I also got the names of some movers NOT to use, if anyone wants to avoid bad movers. Once I get my furniture back I may launch a website "WOW, Do these Movers SUCK!". The dog is staying with me and the one cat likes the new place and the lack of the two other cats. So I am now 10 miles from my aging parents and in the area where most all of my genealogy is as well as points south. When the furniture arrives things might start getting back to normal!! I'll have some books to help answer questions on the list. Furniture might come Wed or Thursday. I'm praying. And going out for pizza, hey! I got a good excuse: no refridge, not even a fork! I got 4 spoons but forgot to pack a fork.... I got a plate now thanks to a late night raid on the local Dollar store, but I might as well enjoy the situation. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi Linda, Thanks again for your great input. My brick-wall is Ire origin of Daniel McKenzie b.c. 1815. John not in US 1880 census but in 1900 he listed as b. 8/1848 Ire with 1st papers (Pa) filed. I have search for naturl. docu. for ten years and can not even come up with the Pa's to compare/duplicate info with other records. 1900 census list John came to US 1872. Ship passg. record below has John arrived in Quebec 7/1871. Only found Canada records is John's ship passg. John probably walk over the border to US since I can't find any border crossing or E.Can. to NE passg. records etc. John d. 1902 & all my Ire ancestors US vitals etc. records just list Ire as origin. Only Eliz. passg. record gave Ballymoney (12 in Ire) as Ire residence which strongly suggest Antrim ? Any further insight ? Your valuable help (& grand humor) is always so great to receive ! Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walt McKENZIE, Sr." <WaltIrish@comcast.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:14 PM Subject: [Sc-Ir] McKENZIE - Ire,Eng,Scot,US - 1871to1907 > Greeting All , > My first 2 Irish male ancestors that came to America > in their early 20's . . . John 1871-72 via Quebec & Geo 1907 via NYC. > Both sets of parents were b. Ire as was John b. 1848. Geo was b. 1887 > Eng. Geo lived in Yorkshire, No.Eng and sailed from Glasgow. John > sailed from Glasgow while his sister Eliz. sailed to Amer. 1895 via > Queenstown, Cork, Ire to Liverpool, Eng and then to Boston, US. All > the ship info matches well for John & Geo (b. year , farmer etc,) except > for nationality of Scotch. > I'm pretty sure these are my correct ancestors. I suspect > that either 1) agent just assumed and wrote down Scotch for McKenzie > or 2) it was less of a problem at the time to give Scotch not Irish to sail > etc. > Does anyone with similar immigrat. info have other > experience and/or explanation(s) ? Or was there a more specific reason > one would give Scotch not Irish ? TIA . . . all the best , Walt -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/129 - Release Date: 10/11/2005

Hi Walt, >Hi Linda, Thanks again for your great input. > My brick-wall is Ire origin of Daniel McKenzie b.c. 1815. John not in >US 1880 census but in 1900 he listed as b. 8/1848 Ire with 1st papers (Pa) filed. Where in PA did he manifest and what was his occupation? Might suggest a few things.... Where was his wife born? >I have search for naturl. docu. for ten years and can not even come up with the >Pa's to compare/duplicate info with other records. Before 1906 (I think that's the year) you could get naturalized in almost any court. A lot of times people filled out first papers almost upon jumping off the boat, so they are not where the ancester finally settled. A search in PA is a massive search. You can find books on the topic of naturalization or some great info on the web. I can think of the local court (Phillie or PGH??), district state courts, federal courts. I've looked long and not found some myself!! Many are filmed and in LDS but so far hasn't helped me either.... Another thought I had about the Scottish origin is I am wondering if any of his kids were born in Scotland. If you haven't collected info on all his kids, do this. If you can find one born in Scotland you might get a lead into where in Ireland. I don't think you mentioned his religion. It seems to me that every Irish Catholic moved to the same parish outside of Glasgow. It went from a handful of Catholics to a huge number from 1800 to 1850, and continued growing. What was most interesting is that in the later 1800s the priest was surnamed Gallagher and many of the parishioners also were clearly from Donegal. I had a client I did some work for ... both ancestors had Inishowen surnames and of course this priest married them. I suspect they all knew one another from back home in Ireland. Also use the US censuses to learn about any folk living nearby with the same surname and who were from Ireland too. Might be old neighbors. Church records also might be useful, esp. if they were Catholic. If not, find their records in whatever church they went to. As you move past 1850, there are too many ship records for them all to be indexed. Generally you need to know when they came into the country and where from naturalization records before you can find them. You can't search what's online and then assume you did a thorough search. Ancestry.com is indexing more of the New York records. Until they did it the records of the Famine Years were not indexed at all. You have the other major ports too to consider. I usually use www.rootsweb.com/~bifhsusa for ship records searches. I do not know if it is up to date on what Ancestry has also indexed. I think you need more than a name match to be sure that he came in through Canada. It's a common name. There are no Canadian border crossings till almost 1900, and then we do not have a complete set either. >records etc. John d. 1902 & all my Ire ancestors US vitals etc. records just >list Ire as origin. Only Eliz. passg. record gave Ballymoney (12 in Ire) as Ire >residence which strongly suggest Antrim ? Religion would help. Most Presbyterians of Irish birth would be in Ulster....McKenzie is a Scottish sounding name, but then, many fine Scotsmen are Catholic.... Searching for the place of origin is a long and hard search unless we get lucky and find a smoking gun (Tombstone says he was born in Ballymoney, Antrim !!). You need to collect LOTS of clues. Like investigating a murder case. You profile him. Religion, occupation, etc -- anything. It's good to know the wife's surname. Sometimes you can get clues from middle names of the children. At your point in time, check any and all obits. Ie the newspaper might have had one but if h e was in a trade there might be a longer one in a trade journal. Or if he was an Elk or an Orangeman a periodical? I'd check the Ellis Island site too. My paternal ancestor, my g grandad Peter Mason, arrived through Canada around 1880, manifesting in Michigan and traveling a well known migration south to the coalfields of Ohio. He was from county Durham, a coal mining family. I encountered a lady researching a family from Durham that bore the surname of his wife. They came a generation before. I suspect many of the coalminers came from Durham and are related, just as many came from the area of Scotland where my grandmother's family originated. In the 1860 census there was one guy surnamed Dalrymple, born in Scotland in the area but 10 years later...many! Not surprisingly Dalrymple Prime was manager of a coal mine. He hired all his relatives. So my family followed earlier family members and village neighbors to the same jobs in the USA. How about yours? Found your connection?? You got one. Anyhow, as I said, they came via Canada in 1880 or so, but my great grandad went back to England. We knew that. I found that when he went back in 1900, his entry was recorded in Ellis Island. Got some more clues.... His mum died six months later. He went back to see her one last time. Did yours go back?? By that time he was running a pub in Ohio so he had a bit more money. www.ellisisland.com I think... I'm saying check out the whole neighborhood and pay a lot of attention to death records for him and his wife including obits. Don't stop with finding one obit, check all the local papers. One might have more details. Our forte here is the colonial area, not 1900. Check the naturalization info at www.genealogy.com/university.html for 1900 ish info that I am overlooking. I'm wondering if his sons might not have left some info on him, in draft records (WWI). Also check for someting that stands out: a son named Aloysious McKenzie. He was named after someone....who? You can use the first name to narrow down McKenzie populations in Ireland and Scotland where the first name occurs. Again, the wife's surname can help too. Like in the case of my client whose ancestors with two Inishowen surnames were married by a priest with an Inishowen surname in Glasgow -- hey!! We know where in Ireland to look for them: Inisowen or Belfast. Possibly Derry. The man was a machinist, as I recall. He didn't learn that fishing off Inishowen, well, I'm assuming they didn't use engines on the fishing boats in the mid 1800s. I might be wrong!! If you gather many clues, you can at least narrow down your search. Then your hire the IRA to set up a road block and collect DNA from the locals. I'm looking for red haired, musical ANDERSONS who were Covenantors and carpenters in the mid to north Antrim area. Actually...there is such a family (Donno about the red hair!). They built the mills at Bushmills, I was told. Now I just have to trap a couple and gather DNA <grin>. I don't feel like we're 'lost' anymore, at least, though I don't have proof that we are related to that family. I suggest finding him in Canada in the Censuses but the indexes aren't so good up there....my primary experience is with Ontario though. Anyone know if there are surname indexes for all of Quebec in 1871???? Ie if you can find out where he lived in Canada (or IF he lived in Canada) you could find other clues. If he was born in 1815, I gotta wonder wh y he waited so long to emigrate. Possibly he joined a child? He was no spring chicken in the 1870s.... You should be looking for a son or daughter in the local area before he manifests. Young men set out to start lives in new countries very easily, but not older men, like him. Most likely he joined family. Linda ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Greeting All , My first 2 Irish male ancestors that came to America in their early 20's . . . John 1871-72 via Quebec & Geo 1907 via NYC. Both sets of parents were b. Ire as was John b. 1848. Geo was b. 1887 Eng. Geo lived in Yorkshire, No.Eng and sailed from Glasgow. John sailed from Glasgow while his sister Eliz. sailed to Amer. 1895 via Queenstown, Cork, Ire to Liverpool, Eng and then to Boston, US. All the ship info matches well for John & Geo (b. year , farmer etc,) except for nationality of Scotch. I'm pretty sure these are my correct ancestors. I suspect that either 1) agent just assumed and wrote down Scotch for McKenzie or 2) it was less of a problem at the time to give Scotch not Irish to sail etc. Does anyone with similar immigrat. info have other experience and/or explanation(s) ? Or was there a more specific reason one would give Scotch not Irish ? TIA . . . all the best , Walt -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/129 - Release Date: 10/11/2005

Hi Walt, Any record can contain errors. Rather than trying to guess why the error was made, to move forward in your research, find additional documentation. In genealogy classes I was taught that it's risky to ever rely on a single source for data as that single source could be wrong. For example my grandma's birth certificate has a different name from the one she used all her life. Didn't find that out till she died. Donno if she knew she wasn't her!! You need to establish that this is or is not your ancestor's entry papers by using additional records such as US censuses, naturalization papers, etc. The same goes for prior nationality. Any single source can be wrong and is wrong for a certain percentage. You build the case by collecting the data, analyzing it, and arriving at a conclusion. In a court of law we can only be tried once for a crime, but in genealogy, we can revise our conclusion at any time due to the arrival of more evidence. You provide lots of info but no sources, so it's not really possible to guage how accurate your info is or to suggest what other records you should search -- as we don't know what sources you already searched. Ie maybe your births are from an old bible or you have have English censuses and/or civil registration for George b 1887. > Or was there a more specific reason >one would give Scotch not Irish ? Hmm... I do tarot readings for $50!!! However my tarot cards are in a moving van so that's not an option. If I had my deck I'd ask when my furniture is arriving!! (Maybe tomorrow!!!). I can provide a joke. I was plowing through ship lists from Germany once and found one immigrant whose occupation was listed as peasant. No idea how that got written down either: frustrated US agent, stupid immigrant, etc. Asuuming your ancestor was naturalized, the papers SHOULD ID the ship he came on. The operative word here being SHOULD <grin>. And assuming you can find the naturalization papers. They aren't always easy to find. The US census will tell you if they were naturalized. Theoretically....of course they coulda lied. Sometimes they gave a different answer on every census. Don't know why they did that. Unless you can interogate them, it's a waste of time to pursue. Genealogy is about things we can prove....it's durn hard enough to just gather THAT stuff!! My own experience is that some of our British ancestors of the working classes were quite leary of the government in your period. My radical coal miner ancestors (Co Durham to Michigan to Ohio circa 1880) didn't bother to register the births of their children in Durham Eng. Of course they didn't go to church either. My gg granddad's two wives gave different surnames on their marriage certificates than they gave when registering what children they did register the births of. I think they lied deliberately. Maybe yours were just playing games with Da Man too. Mine came from a whole parish in England where there are no death records (Weardale in Stanhope). I think they practiced Tibetan Air Burial. Also a village of Scots Presbyterians up there, evading the Church of Engerland for several hundreds of years. I think they ate any vicars they caught in the vicinity. That's the Borders. Some of us didn't get run out by King Jamie in the 1600s. We hid better than you-all's ancestors and continued to be ourselves, well, up to today!! Maybe we should figure out a way to channel these guys and get some answers. I just fear I'll never understand the English spoken by my Geordie ancestors if I did bring them back from the grave. I can understand Belfast English fine but not Geordie. I know, I spent a week in Durham a few years ago, not able to understand anyone!! Maybe your's talked kinda funny too, which might account for the mistaken nationality.... Lots of Irish went to the industrial areas of Yorkshire and Durham. Best of luck, Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Linda, I think an overview written by you would be wonderful. I swear, sometimes the odd five words between commas in one of your pieces send me off on a 6-hour googling adventure! I don?t think you even notice anymore how much information you take as a given that?s juicy fodder for study for the rest of us. I have an appointment at the Cumberland County Historical Society on Saturday to view and copy the Shippensburg Project papers, if John Polk doesn?t beat me up there. (Karen Daniel at Shippensburg U. had never even heard of the Project and could come up with no traces of it.) Shall I forward a scan of the key and a panel to you so you know what we?re looking at? I?ll be copying the key, the 45 panels and who knows what else in the folder. I?ll wind up with a packet of 46-some pages (don?t know if there will be a copyright issue) and haven?t decided if e-mailing scans or printing and posting them to those who want copies would be easier. I may form a chain! If you want it, you gotta forward it to one other on the request list? And I can?t emphasize too much how priceless a close relationship with in-law researchers can be. If it weren?t for the 30 years of research and guidance that Dr. Henry Cathey has shared with me, this resource might have faded away before anyone else could benefit. (He got his panels via a paid Cumberland County researcher six years ago. If anyone knows Cynthia A. Miller, give her a kiss for us!) Sally Brandon

>And alumni Rob: Karen Daniel, head of Special Collections and Archives at Shippensburg now-University! has been wonderful. She wrote that she was hired to get a handle on what they have and what has been lost. She also followed up with suggestions as to papers I might want to view and offered to track down footnoted sources via the alumni who wrote them! I was impressed. Glad to hear it. I won't feel so bad about signing my next donation check now. Now if only the football team could win a few more games . . . -----Original Message----- From: Sally Brandon [mailto:sbrandondc@verizon.net] Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 11:18 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Sc-Ir] Shippensburg Blunston map project John, You're right of course, that "There just isn't enough information in them to pin the sites down for sure." I'm anxious to see just how many are identified when I get to see all 45 panels. The notations alongside the parcels merely read "4-3," "22-6" and such. Those are to translate into Donehoo's page 4, third grantee, page 22, sixth grantee and such. (As careful as he seems to be, it appears that Donehoo has the page breaks slightly off from the originals, though. Doesn't matter, really, he's the publication used by the Shippensburg Project.) I don't know if they noted the "Pre Licensees" mentioned as already settled adjacent the new tracts, either. I'll report back what I find! And alumni Rob: Karen Daniel, head of Special Collections and Archives at Shippensburg now-University! has been wonderful. She wrote that she was hired to get a handle on what they have and what has been lost. She also followed up with suggestions as to papers I might want to view and offered to track down footnoted sources via the alumni who wrote them! I was impressed. Sally Brandon ===================== From: John Polk <jfpolk@earthlink.net> Date: Mon Oct 10 21:48:29 CDT 2005 To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Blunston Licenses The Blunston Licenses are an important resource for finding those first Scotch-Irish squatters who jumped the gun and populated the Cumberland Valley before the Penns concluded their treaty with the Indians for the area. There were 249 licenses issued altogether, dating from 1734 to 1736. A word of caution - the exact location of many of the licensed properties will never be known with certainty. There just isn't enough information in them to pin the sites down for sure, and a lot of the reference points have vanished or have very different names now than they did in 1737. <snip>

Hi folks, Is it possible that our experts on this topic could give me permission to create a fast article for our website on the topic? Also can they tell me how to get to the maps, etc, etc?? (IE does one have to go to Shippensburg? Are they filmed by LDS? Are they in Harrisburg?) Then we'll make this a permanent part of our website. Thanks in advance and thanks for the thread, too! Also in regards to the "Indian Cabins" comment. I suspect if one spent a fair am ount of time reviewing the early deeds (in Harrisburg, filmed too), and early history, you'd find this place. I spent some time lurking there due to a project. Places like "Burnt Cabins" can be placed in a township. Indian Cabins was apparently not near our search (Chambersburg area) unless I just missed it. These cabins were burnt by the Indians in the French and Indian Wars. I promise you there were no Indian cabins nearby with Indians after the mid 1700s. Even the 'Praying Indians' were 'run out' by settlers except for the slow ones who were killed. Maybe look for settlements of Christian Indians???? There was a school for Indians in Carlisle, but I'm not sure of the dates. This was one of those unfortunate projects involving 'civilizing' Indian children by removing them from their families. At any rate due to it there is lots of info on Indians in Carlisle, PA. (I speak from recall here as all my books -- that keep me somewhat honest <grin>) are in a warehouse somewhere in Pittsburgh, so feel free to correct me!). Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Rob Hilliard" <rth@mackinengineering.com> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:05:45 -0400 > >And alumni Rob: >Karen Daniel, head of Special Collections and Archives at Shippensburg >now-University! has been wonderful. She wrote that she was hired to get >a handle on what they have and what has been lost. She also followed up >with suggestions as to papers I might want to view and offered to track >down footnoted sources via the alumni who wrote them! I was impressed. > > >Glad to hear it. I won't feel so bad about signing my next donation >check now. > >Now if only the football team could win a few more games . . . > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sally Brandon [mailto:sbrandondc@verizon.net] >Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 11:18 PM >To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [Sc-Ir] Shippensburg Blunston map project > >John, > >You're right of course, that "There just isn't enough information in >them to pin the sites down for sure." I'm anxious to see just how many >are identified when I get to see all 45 panels. > >The notations alongside the parcels merely read "4-3," "22-6" and such. >Those are to translate into Donehoo's page 4, third grantee, page 22, >sixth grantee and such. (As careful as he seems to be, it appears that >Donehoo has the page breaks slightly off from the originals, though. >Doesn't matter, really, he's the publication used by the Shippensburg >Project.) > >I don't know if they noted the "Pre Licensees" mentioned as already >settled adjacent the new tracts, either. > >I'll report back what I find! > >And alumni Rob: >Karen Daniel, head of Special Collections and Archives at Shippensburg >now-University! has been wonderful. She wrote that she was hired to get >a handle on what they have and what has been lost. She also followed up >with suggestions as to papers I might want to view and offered to track >down footnoted sources via the alumni who wrote them! I was impressed. > > >Sally Brandon > >===================== >From: John Polk <jfpolk@earthlink.net> >Date: Mon Oct 10 21:48:29 CDT 2005 >To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Blunston Licenses > >The Blunston Licenses are an important resource for finding those first >Scotch-Irish squatters who jumped the gun and populated the Cumberland >Valley before the Penns concluded their treaty with the Indians for the >area. There were 249 licenses issued altogether, dating from 1734 to >1736. >A word of caution - the exact location of many of the licensed >properties will never be known with certainty. There just isn't enough >information in them to pin the sites down for sure, and a lot of the >reference points have vanished or have very different names now than >they did in 1737. <snip> > > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net