I actually use my "delete" key if I happen to not like the subject on one of my e-mail groups I subscribe to, or if the subject doesn't pertain to me. Nancy McFarland Hi List , There is nothing wrong wanting to have traditions, recipes info etc. as long as its not over-the-top off-topic. In genealogy, we have a) primary documents e.g. vitals b) secondary data e.g. census c) verbal info passed-down & d) generically applicable info e.g. recipes, traditions etc. It is d), the generic info that is so often the off topic offender and these aspects are not going to establish your ancestors true identity. Only the higher level data, especially the primary docu., for the 18-19th centuries will begin to differentiate Scotch-Irish (S/I) from Ulster-Scot (U/S) etc. Again, even more so, we can have 30,000+ mail list (this is good), if we do not presently have a "S/I Traditions" and even a "U/S Traditions" list etc. Actually, only 16-17th century docu./data will differentiate S/I & U/S and we all know that is even less likely / available. Walt

Thanks Rob, I've been to the Electric Scotland site many times for my clan MACFARLANE research but will check out these other sites as well! Nancy McFarland Hello Nancy, Try www.electricscotland.com for Scottish history. There is also GENUKI Scotland at www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/index.html and GenWeb at www.scotlandgenweb.org/ Rob Doragh Liverpool UK .

Thanks to all of you. And I have plenty of straight genealogy. Like Landers, Wiley, Riley, Gamble and Stone. All connected. Nimrod Stone, RS, born 1 Oct 1765 Fauquier Co., VA died 1841 Laudersdale, Vermillion Co. IN. There's conflicting information on wife's name, Sarah Craig or Sarah Russell or did he have two wives named Sarah. Any help appreicated. Ludie

Hi List , There is nothing wrong wanting to have traditions, recipes info etc. as long as its not over-the-top off-topic. In genealogy, we have a) primary documents e.g. vitals b) secondary data e.g. census c) verbal info passed-down & d) generically applicable info e.g. recipes, traditions etc. It is d), the generic info that is so often the off topic offender and these aspects are not going to establish your ancestors true identity. Only the higher level data, especially the primary docu., for the 18-19th centuries will begin to differentiate Scotch-Irish (S/I) from Ulster-Scot (U/S) etc. Again, even more so, we can have 30,000+ mail list (this is good), if we do not presently have a "S/I Traditions" and even a "U/S Traditions" list etc. Actually, only 16-17th century docu./data will differentiate S/I & U/S and we all know that is even less likely / available. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: <Captallen@aol.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 6:48 PM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Asking for Traditions > Dear List: > > In the spirit of Thanksgiving, thank you for the discussion of traditions on > this list. If we use the words "Family Historians" instead of "Genealogists", > then asking about traditions is entirely acceptable, entertaining and useful > to me and maybe others. I never know just what it is that will give me a > chink in the brick wall. > > I, for one, get bored with just listing the constant "begats" and prefer > Family History with all the background. > > Happy Thanksgiving to those in the colonies, and greetings to fellow listers > elsewhere, > > Elaine Allen > Researching Rev. Gov George Walker, Londonderry, Ulster > Andrew and Alexander Walker, Londonderry, NH > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/180 - Release Date: 11/23/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/180 - Release Date: 11/23/2005

On 22 Nov, 2005, at 22:20, Loudene Tollar wrote: > In your talk about the dickie bird, I was reminded that my > granddaughter and I were quite surprised to hear a real coocoo bird > at a bed & breakfast in County Clare, near Lisdoonvarna. I wasn't > even aware there was even a real bird that had that whistle and > don't know what it's real name is or what it looked like. Ludie > ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Wolfe > To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:57 AM > Subject: [Sc-Ir] Dickie Bird > > > There is a bird called the dickcissel. Could your Dickie Bird be > one of > these cute finch-like birds. I looked in my Scottish and Irish > bird books > but did not find it. These are small books that have only the most > common > birds. If any is interested, I will scan and email it to you. > > Pat Wolfe in Maryland > > > > At Christmastime, we were told that a "dickie bird" would sit > outside our > window .. and "watch what we were doing" .. and then fly away and > go "report > to" Santa ! Then there is that most famous of all Dickie Birds ... On a tree by a river a little tom-tit Sang "Willow, titwillow, titwillow!" And I said to him, "Dicky-bird, why do you sit Singing Willow, titwillow, titwillow'?" "Is it weakness of intellect, birdie?" I cried, "Or a rather tough worm in your little inside?" With a shake of his poor little head, he replied, "Oh, willow, titwillow, titwillow!" Sung by KO-KO (Lord High Executioner of Titipu), in Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Mikado." T.T.F.N. William H. Magill magill@mcgillsociety.org magill@acm.org magill@mac.com whmagill@gmail.com

Dear List: In the spirit of Thanksgiving, thank you for the discussion of traditions on this list. If we use the words "Family Historians" instead of "Genealogists", then asking about traditions is entirely acceptable, entertaining and useful to me and maybe others. I never know just what it is that will give me a chink in the brick wall. I, for one, get bored with just listing the constant "begats" and prefer Family History with all the background. Happy Thanksgiving to those in the colonies, and greetings to fellow listers elsewhere, Elaine Allen Researching Rev. Gov George Walker, Londonderry, Ulster Andrew and Alexander Walker, Londonderry, NH

I agree with Elaine Allen. I sometimes don't have enough time during the Holidays and many other times to pick up a book and read it from one end to another about a Holiday, living conditions, meanings of words etc. before another Holiday arrives. Thusly, I appreciate the tidbits given on the list about history. And isn't that what genealogy is, history? Information gleaned from the list helps fill out the bones of my ancestors. Sometimes I can see their faces, where they lived and how they lived through stories (short ones) given on the list. In other words, thanks for the history/genealogy lessons. Keep up the good work. Elaine Suhre

Traditions are a part of history, and history is a part of genealogy. With out them all you have is a boring list of names, date and place of birth, date and place of death, and date and place of marriage. For example I have found a 8X g-grandfather from Ireland who was a martyr for the Quarker cause. I have found two indirect lines to the Mayflower. Two 5X g-grandfathers who were soldiers in the American Revolutionary war. (Yes on the American side.) Dozens of cousins who fought in the Civil War, including the Sgt. Maj. of Andrew's Raider. Captured by the Confederates, tried as a spy, and hung. He was the First Posthumous Recipient Medal Of Honor. My wife's 2X g-grandfather fought for the Confederate Army. I have also confirmed connections to to US Presidents (Richard M. Nixon, and Teddy Roosevelt), and am researching connections to two others (Hert Hoover, and Andrew Jackson (Wife's side)). Most of these are events are documented on my website. The point is that that is a lot more interesting then just a string of data, and it is genealogy. On the Quaker Roots list we spend a lot of time discussing the beliefs and traditions of Quakers because we would not understand their genealogies with out it. As long as Linda has not labled a subject as closed there is no reason for anybody to apologize for contributing to this list. Keep up the good work everybody. Forrest Plumstead fplum1@gmail.com Researching the following Surnames: Bushouse, Plumstead, Risser, Schroeder, Senne, Thayer, Quaker Families: Coppock, Heald, Hobson, Hollingsworth, Potts, Ross, Watt Plumstead and Associated Families: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum/ Military Kool Lynx: http://geocities.com/fplum/ Ham Radio WB5HQO http://forrest.3h.com/main.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 11:44 AM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Apology for asking for traditions > > I apologize for asking for traditions on this list. I've always considered > traditions as part of my heritage thus genealogy. Traditions can give clues > for research but I'm now more aware that not everyone has the same interest > that I have. I do thank all of you who have helped me with the Scotch-Irish > history and traditions. Ludie >

McKENZIE ~ O'NEIL ~ SULLIVAN ~ SHEEHAN Greetings & G'day Listers , Let me assure everybody, I'm not an "old crank" but rather a WWII gen person, m. 47yrs, with 7+ decades under my belt. "Topic: Scotch-Irish or Ulster Scots genealogy and culture. These people began a period of heavy emigration from Ulster in the early 1700's and played a large part in the American Revolution. They form one of the root stocks of the American people, yet their history is largely forgotten or misunderstood. This list will aim to correct that and provide assistance in tracking ancestors back to Ulster" Utilizing generally accepted common sense and being reasonable, makes it a lot easier to be caring, kind, considerate, thoughtful, courteous & mature. Let's all try not to go over the top by psyching out serious genealogy people in their busy every day family / work etc. life. These mail lists of 29,000+ are about genealogy knowledge transfer of specific / relevant limited topic involving primarily 75 -100+ yrs old family ancestors history. Thus the 29,00+ mail list allows for on-topic postings, so the lister has a pretty good idea what to expect and nor be irritated with unexpected off-topics and/or wasted time. Genealogy is an important, very difficult & time-consuming endeavor, not a casual or informal matter. It been my experience that inappropriate postings decrease the good genealogy info/data one would otherwise obtain. As with genealogy, there are many sites on the net, maybe one can start a Rootsweb "Scotch-Irish Traditions" or maybe there is already a Rootsweb "traditions" list. I'm sure there are many non-Rootsweb sites already out there. Maybe then, we'll have 30,000+ Rootsweb mail list. Thanks in advance for your interest, time & consideration. Genealogy yours, Grandpa Walt McKenzie, Sr.-NJ-MA-USAmerica WaltIrish1@comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <AGarvin224@aol.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Apology for asking for traditions > In a message dated 11/23/05 12:48:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > ludiekt@juno.com writes: >> I apologize for asking for traditions on this list. I've always considered >> traditions as part of my heritage thus genealogy. Traditions can give clues >> for research but I'm now more aware that not everyone has the same interest >> that I have. I do thank all of you who have helped me with the Scotch-Irish >> history and traditions. > > No problem - I thought it was interesting. > Some people (even on these lists - imagine that!) are old cranks. > Thanks for the topic - > Ann in MI -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/180 - Release Date: 11/23/2005

First I'd like to say how much I have enjoyed the information sent on the traditions. I too saved it all. Question, does anyone know the name of a book which seemed to list the marriages of Scots-Irish in Ulster who were Methodist. Many years ago, I found such a book in the SLC library, which listed, among other things, short lists of marriages. The time period included late 1700's through middle 1800's. I was too dumb to keep the call number! Now I know that 2 of those marriages were my ancestors. I've search many times since then and can't find the book. As the family lived in Coleraine from at least 1802 on I suspect the list is from that area. Researchers tell me the marriage records don't exist, but darn I saw them. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Emalu

To view these records try either one of these links. <<http://www.freesurnamesearch.com>> <<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cotyroneireland/churchrecord/donema napresbreg.html?o_xid=0022468880&o_lid=0022468880&o_xt=22468880>> Best of luck with your family searches. Marybeth C. ======================================= << - Transcriptions of Donemana Presbyterian Registers 1861-1889, County Tyrone (Northern Ireland) >>

Thank you for the link!!! That was great. Julia McNamee-Stilwell researching: Boyle, McNamee, McCabe, Curran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Andrews" <edward.andrews@btinternet.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 6:23 AM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Something on Christmas > Today in the Herald, the Glasgow morning Newspaper, there is one of the > periodic reports from Fiona Houston who is living in the style of the > 1790s > for a year. > > The part which concerns us is the section which begins "I have been > busying > about, preparing for Christmas." > > to > > "Yet they must at least have had something to offer New Year callers, for > the first-footing traditions were strong." > > The full story can be found at > > http://www.theherald.co.uk/features/51220.html > > As the material is copyright I don't think that we can put it on a RW site > > Edward Andrews. > > > > > > Only by recovering prophetic and objective modes of preaching, in > faithfulness to the gospel of Christ crucified and in contradiction to > society's profane habits and priorities, can we truly challenge our dying > culture and reveal to it its own possibilities for resurrection. > Alan E Lewis. "Between Cross and Resurrection. A Theology of Holy > Saturday" > Eerdmans 2001 p 377 > > > >

I am enjoying the traditions conversations also. I think it all ties in with genealogy. Our ancestors were just more than a name and date on a page It's interesting to see what traditions and variations there of, have survived over the years! On another note, I've just come across a few ancestors on a maternal line of mine. They are MacAlpin, which I find is a Scottish clan name and also some with old spellings MacGabhran, MacAiden, MacDomnail or MacDamnall. I think these may be strictly Scottish in origin but I'm not sure of what the modern spellings would be or the families may have ventured to Ireland. Haven't done any research yet. Anyway, it's all interesting. Nancy also in Michigan where it's snowing to beat the band where I am too! I'm still laughing at the Sealy Mattress dancing... Even the cranks gotta have a sense of humor. Donna in Michigan where it is already SNOWING... Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate. .

Our ancestors were just more than a name and date on a page > It's interesting to see what traditions and variations there of, have > survived over the years! I find traditions especially interesting because I grew up with no knowledge of my father's family background -- not even the countries of origin for the surnames. After I discovered that my maternal grandmother was SI, and realized that it is from her family that most of our family traditions, political leanings, moral values, etc. originated, it is fascinating to me so see how similar they are to those of others from that same heritage. It may not be "genealogy", but I sure have learned much of value about my SI background from these occasional off-topic exchanges. I treasure them -- thanks. Virginia -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/180 - Release Date: 11/23/2005

I thought they were great . Saved them all Thanks Doug

In a message dated 11/23/05 12:48:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, ludiekt@juno.com writes: > > I apologize for asking for traditions on this list. I've always considered > traditions as part of my heritage thus genealogy. Traditions can give clues > for research but I'm now more aware that not everyone has the same interest > that I have. I do thank all of you who have helped me with the Scotch-Irish > > history and traditions. No problem - I thought it was interesting. Some people (even on these lists - imagine that!) are old cranks. Thanks for the topic - Ann in MI

I'm still laughing at the Sealy Mattress dancing... Even the cranks gotta have a sense of humor. Donna in Michigan where it is already SNOWING... Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate.

G'day Ludie , Your so caring & considerate, God bless you. Grandpa Walt Scotch-Irish ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 12:44 PM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Apology for asking for traditions > > I apologize for asking for traditions on this list. I've always considered > traditions as part of my heritage thus genealogy. Traditions can give clues > for research but I'm now more aware that not everyone has the same interest > that I have. I do thank all of you who have helped me with the Scotch-Irish > history and traditions. Ludie > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.5/178 - Release Date: 11/22/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.5/178 - Release Date: 11/22/2005

I am very glad that you asked. I have the same questions myself and found the responses very interesting. Pat Wolfe in Maryland

Hi folks, There's no need to apologize for asking about traditions. The list is not "Just" about genealogy as old timers will atest. It's safer though.....less likely to start a war. The SI appear to be about as 'user friendly' as a nest of porcipines <grin>. As old timers will atest. I think it says something to that affect in the rules that no one reads, including me or I'd know!! A traditions thread at least clears the list of grouches, at least temporarily, and excepting myself, the supreme grouch, who is stuck here till one of YOU volunteer to be list admin. Thar's a good side to everything. It'll get REAL quiet very soon as everyone leaves for the holidays so those who like chats enjoy now. Later those who like silence can enjoy. Those who want genealogy -- start a thread and then we'll have a thread. It's like TV: if you don't turn it on, it don't work. You turn it on with a post. Me, I'm working on footnotes and bibliography formatting. WOW is that boring. Linda Merle (SI Admin and supreme grouch) ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net