Linda you say about Hanna "It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc." What about known Scots-Irish settlements in Canada. Any ideas of how to learn about those? Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:22 PM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts > Hi folk, > > Perhaps we can help one another by suggesting books, etc, > to read for Christmas that can help us understand our > ancestors. > > In the USA one is Hanna "The Scotch-Irish". THis book is > in most libraries and on CD. Parts are very dated but parts > are excellent. It includes primary material from the > settlement of Ulster so you can read this and form your > own opinions. It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish > settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc. > It's on line at Ancestry. Maybe for free !! (Check "Scots-Irish"). > > another one is the social history by Leyburn "The Scotch Irish". THis book > is more more modern. It's chuck full of > good info. > > An excellent american reference book is "The Source". > > The definitive work on Irish and Scotch Irish genealogy is > Falley "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research". > > There is Ryan "Irish Records". > > Billy Kennedy's books are very good, such as "Faith and > Freedom: The Scots-Irish in America". > > You can find these at www.amazon.com, www.genealogical.com, > and www.ancestry.com . And 2nd hand book shops! Try > www.froogle.com . > > ANyone else have suggestions?? > > Linda Merle > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net > > > > > > >

Deloris Williams (on another list - GREEN-L@rootsweb.com) did a great job in compiling this list and was very generous to share it with other listers. Enjoy. This is the second of two parts. Donna -----Original Message----- From: Deloris Williams Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 9:12 PM To: GREEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [GREEN] More Free Websites Someone reminded me of another favorite website, so I am posting it, along with a few others I left off my previous list. http://www.segenealogy.com/ (Lots of genealogy maps, and a good list of genealogy terms, and illnesses, a must for beginners, or just someone needing a refresher course) http://www.goldenbranches.com/nc-state/cherokee/data.html (Lots of free data, including Census and Marriage records for Cherokee County, North Carolina) http://www.livgenmi.com/1895/ (1895 U.S. Atlas, for every state and county in the U.S.) The following are a bunch of websites featuring historical maps for all eras, and all areas of the U.S. and World. http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/maps/maps.cfm#18c http://www.rootsweb.com/~nccatawb/countyfm.htm (North Carolina County formation maps, clickable from 1700-1912) http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~phensel/maps.html#historic (maps of all kind) http://www.davidrumsey.com/ (more maps) http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ http://www.us-counties.com/index.html (want to find out what is available and who to contact for any State or County office in the U.S.? It's at this website) The following is a link to a website run by the University of North Carolina at Greensboro that has transcribed thousands of slavery petitions for 15 states. Transcriptions are fully searchable and lists names of slaves, masters, and locations where petitions were filed. http://library.uncg.edu/slavery_petitions/about.asp Links to websites featuring lists of nicknames used in historical and present times, which can be very useful when trying to locate your ancestors. I'll bet a lot of people never knew that a name like "Mary" and "Polly" were interchangeable, or that "Mary" and "Molly", "Jane" and "Gincy", "Daisy" and "Margaret", "Madge" and "Margaret", and hundreds of others, were variations on the same names. That can make the difference when you can't find your Great Aunt Jane, but all you see is someone named "Jincy", or "Gincy". http://genealogy.about.com/library/bl_nicknames.htm http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohfulton/FemaleNicknames.html http://www.genealogytoday.com/genealogy/enoch/nicknames.html http://www.rootsweb.com/~pacumber/nick.htm Looking for an Obituary of a fairly recent death, or in some cases, for a death occurring in the last 50 years or so? Or is there an article you heard about that appeared in a newspaper somewhere in the country? You can find it yourself in many cases by simply checking newspapers for the area of the country where the individual died. The following is the link to Newspapers.com, with links to newspapers throughout the world. Just key in the name of the location you want to find a newspaper, and you'll get a Results listing all of the local newspapers for the area. Click onto the newspaper site, and you can read the paper online, and most of them feature archived articles and obituaries which can be searched for free for a certain amount of years back. There are a few which charge a fee for older articles, but then again, there are those that don't. Try it. http://www.newspapers.com/ Find something on almost anyone who ever had anything to do with politics at the Political Graveyard. http://politicalgraveyard.com/ Genealogy resource page - Your guide to free genealogy search tips, articles, and family tree http://www.amberskyline.com/treasuremaps/ Want to find out more about the "Lost Colony of Roanoke"? http://www.ecu.edu/rcro/links/history.html Want to learn more about the original colonists at Jamestown? Plenty of searchable material here. http://www.virtualjamestown.org/page2.html The following are websites that sell various genealogy books. Many times, these are the only way that some of us can find those wills, deeds, estate records, etc., and these websites sell books at fairly decent prices and are very reliable. The webpages are fully Searchable. http://www.willowbend.net/advsearch.asp http://www.bigtreebooks.com/index.asp http://www.ancestorstuff.com http://www.genealogical.com/ Regards, Deloris Williams ==== GREEN Mailing List ==== Thanks for sharing information and queries with your fellow family researchers ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Deloris Williams (on another list - GREEN-L@rootsweb.com) did a great job in compiling this list and was very generous to share it with other listers. Enjoy. This is the first of two parts. Donna -----Original Message----- From: Deloris Williams Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 4:34 PM To: GREEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [GREEN] Free Websites for researching Lillian Your message inspires me to post a list of some of my favorite research websites that have online records available and can help in your research, and are Free to use by anyone. USGenweb & Rootsweb have a number of free databases which can be searched very easily. First of all try searching at the Rootsweb homepage by name, they have the largest group of free resources online: http://www.rootsweb.com/ USGenweb can researched a number of ways, but probably the best way is by going to the State and County pages that you need. Click onto the State in the left column of the homepage, and then pick the County you want to check. Most of the County Websites have lots of data contributed by users including census, wills, deeds, court records, almost anything for genealogy researching. Try it, you'll be amazed at what's available for free: http://www.usgenweb.org/ By the way, if you don't know the county, but have the city or town, try doing a search at Rootsweb's "U.S. Town/County Database", available on their homepage. Just click onto the link, and type in the city & 2 letter State abbreviation. Most genealogy research locates records based on the names of a County, so it is important to know the County. Here are a number of State or County databases that can help in doing specific researches, and which have documents or links to data: http://halifax.sgarner349.com/ (Halifax County, North Carolina) http://www.b4us.net/ (Northeastern North Carolina Genealogy Research database includes, Maps,Court Records, Military databases for the Spanish American War, Civil War, WWII, County Histories, Cemeteries, plus books for NC, and much more. http://www.lofthouse.com/warren/bibles/sura.htm (Warren Co.,North Carolina family bible records) http://www.nexgenimaging.com/db/warrenpolicy.cfm (Warren Co.,NC Property Records database) http://www.linkpendium.com/genealogy/USA/NC/Granville/ (Linkpendium Genealogy, has websites and resources for most Counties in the USA. I use it for mostly NC research, so this takes you to the Granville Co. webpage, but you can key in your own locations by clicking onto "USA" at the top of the page) http://www.deeds.co.nash.nc.us/ (Nash Co.North Carolina Register of DeedsOnline) http://web.co.wake.nc.us/rdeeds/ (Wake Co.,NC Register of Deeds Online) http://docsouth.unc.edu/ (Documenting the American South website run by University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, many online books available for reading ) http://birth-certificates.net/north-carolina.htm (website to assist in North Carolina Birth Certificates searches) http://www.oberlin.edu/external/EOG/HistoricalDocuments.html (Oberlin County, Ohio College website, lots of historical records for Ohio) http://www.ohiohistory.org/dindex/ (Ohio Death Certificates 1913 -1937 Online) http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/archives/databases.html (Illinois State Archives) http://ukcc.uky.edu/~vitalrec/ (Kentucky Vital Records database) http://catalog.kyhistory.org/help/Cem_Database_Intro.htm (Kentucky Cemetery records and more) http://www.sos.state.mo.us./archives/ (Missouri State Archives) http://sos.ky.gov/land/ (Kentucky land records and links to more) http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~ysbinns/vataxlists/index.htm (Virginia Tax Records 1790 -1800) http://www.bjmjr.com/military/index.htm (Website to help in researching military history) http://www.searchsystems.net/list.php?nid=42 (SearchSystems.net - Public Records directory. This link is for NC, but can key in the State of your choice) http://www.ellisisland.org/ (Ellis Island Passenger Arrivals research - can search for list of people who arrived in Ellis Island) http://www.interment.net/ (Search for cemetery records nationwide) http://www.daddezio.com/cemetery/ (cemetery records) http://www.obitlinkspage.com/ (find obituaries) http://www.obitcentral.com/ (find obituaries) http://www.findagrave.com/ (Find a Grave) http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/dawes.php (Index to the Dawes Rolls for Native American Research) http://www.census-online.com/links/ (Search for free census records online) http://www.censusfinder.com/ (free census records finder) http://www.censusdiggins.com/ (free census and genealogy research sites) http://envoy.libraryofmichigan.org/1870_census/ (Michigan Online census) http://www.familysearch.org/ (Latter Day Saints website for free genealogy research and guides, includes free 1880 census online) Enjoy, Deloris Williams Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

William and Mary Durning has several "The Scotch-Irish and The Scotch-Irish Who came to America" Then there is a "just for fun book" by him called "So You Think You're A Wee Bit Irish, and a more up to date copy of the same book, "A guide to Irish Roots". These are traditional family relationships passed down. It does have Scots-Irish names in it, but it's just for fun tracing all the links back to Adam. >Scotch-Irish-l@rootsweb.com >Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 13:24:32 -0700 >X-Original-Sender: merle@mail.fea.net Wed Dec 7 13:24:32 2005 >Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 12:22:56 -0800 >From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> >Reply-To: <merle@mail.fea.net> >Old-To: <Scotch-Irish-l@rootsweb.com> >X-Mailer: <IMail v8.21> >X-Declude-Sender: merle@mail.fea.net [127.0.0.1] >X-Declude-Spoolname: D44A00000044C2C6B.GSC >X-Declude-Note: Scanned by Declude 2.0.6.16 >(http://www.declude.com/x-note.htm) for spam. >X-Declude-Scan: Score [0] at 12:22:56 on 07 Dec 2005 >X-Declude-Tests: Whitelisted >X-Country-Chain: >X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 192.168.16.34 >To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >Resent-From: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >X-Mailing-List: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/36682 >X-Loop: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >Resent-Sender: Scotch-Irish-L-request@rootsweb.com >Subject: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts > >Hi folk, > >Perhaps we can help one another by suggesting books, etc, >to read for Christmas that can help us understand our >ancestors. > >In the USA one is Hanna "The Scotch-Irish". THis book is >in most libraries and on CD. Parts are very dated but parts >are excellent. It includes primary material from the >settlement of Ulster so you can read this and form your >own opinions. It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish >settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc. >It's on line at Ancestry. Maybe for free !! (Check "Scots-Irish"). > >another one is the social history by Leyburn "The Scotch Irish". THis book >is more more modern. It's chuck full of >good info. > >An excellent american reference book is "The Source". > >The definitive work on Irish and Scotch Irish genealogy is >Falley "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research". > >There is Ryan "Irish Records". > >Billy Kennedy's books are very good, such as "Faith and >Freedom: The Scots-Irish in America". > >You can find these at www.amazon.com, www.genealogical.com, >and www.ancestry.com . And 2nd hand book shops! Try >www.froogle.com . > >ANyone else have suggestions?? > >Linda Merle > > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net > > > >

Many of our ancestors may have left from Dublin Ire. or Belfast in NI. Both are huge seaports..........Liverpool is about an hour flight from Belfast so may have been by ferry in early days. They use many ferries now for people and cars etc. to go back and forth across to Scotland and England. They would have had to had quite a bit of money to get over to England to get on ships from there. We need Linda's idea on this. The poor in early 1720sand before when my family lines came over may not have had the money to go to England. Linda what's the truth on this? Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: <Scotch-Irish-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:06 AM Subject: Scotch-Irish-D Digest V05 #211 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/194 - Release Date: 12/7/05

Hi folk, Perhaps we can help one another by suggesting books, etc, to read for Christmas that can help us understand our ancestors. In the USA one is Hanna "The Scotch-Irish". THis book is in most libraries and on CD. Parts are very dated but parts are excellent. It includes primary material from the settlement of Ulster so you can read this and form your own opinions. It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc. It's on line at Ancestry. Maybe for free !! (Check "Scots-Irish"). another one is the social history by Leyburn "The Scotch Irish". THis book is more more modern. It's chuck full of good info. An excellent american reference book is "The Source". The definitive work on Irish and Scotch Irish genealogy is Falley "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research". There is Ryan "Irish Records". Billy Kennedy's books are very good, such as "Faith and Freedom: The Scots-Irish in America". You can find these at www.amazon.com, www.genealogical.com, and www.ancestry.com . And 2nd hand book shops! Try www.froogle.com . ANyone else have suggestions?? Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi Sarah, the truth is, alas, it is impossible to know the whole truth about shipping in the 1700s. There are very few records. No records means we don't know. We don't even have the names of the ships that were plying the seas then. The ports were entirely different. THings began to shift in the early 1800s so by the Famine large steam ships had largely replaced the smaller sailing ships and people were having to go to the few larger ports that could 'service' them, via ferries and trains. Agnew wrote a book on Belfast merchant families. She is a scholar so her sources are identified. The genealogy of the families is not indexed in her book but is in the archives of this list. You can learn a lot about Belfast shipping in the 1600s from this book. In any case from her book you realize that much shipping happened at very tiny ports. There was no reason for people to go to Dublin, Belfast, or Liverpool. The ships were small and often were hopscotching around the coast stopping at any small harbor. Many people left from Larne, for example, and Derry, and ports on the west coast. The same ships would pause along the coast of Scotland to unload a box or two and pick up a person or two. The same was occuring 100 years later when in the 1770s the British Gov first did a study to see who was leaving. They found it impossible to record all emigrants because the ships stopped at so many places. They couldn't have an official at all the stopping places to record who got on. THis is in another book whose name escapes me right now. The man wrote a couple books on American immigration. Also Kirby Miller's book on Irish emigration is usually considered the definitive work. He covers the later years, the 1800s better because that is when we got more records. There were no passenger ships. People rode on boats that hauled cargo. From what I have read they got on board what was available and went wherever it went, hoofing it to their final destination. So some German ancestors of mine landed in 1834 in Baltimore, which at the time was the 2nd largest port after New York (so many ships went there), and rode in covered wagons to north of Pittsburgh. Not the route 'common sense' would suggest <grin>! We had been searching New York and Phillie Passenger lists.... Most people who came in the 1700s are not named in any immigration document and or non-existence ship list. Spending eons trying to find the ship the ancestor came in will not end in success unless you are 1. lucky, and 2. study how to do this kind of research and execute intelligent strategies. Somewhere I read that the past is a foreign place. So true!!! Yet we have this notion of people traveling to a major port and getting a ticket to New York, leaving behind white churches with bell towers. Hmmm.... In the 1700s Presbyterianism was illegal. They didn't have nice white churches. They met in homes and open fields and occassionally a sod house or barn, just like they did when they went down to the local harbor and boarded a tiny cargo ship for 15 ports in Scotland and Ireland before they topped off the fresh water in Cork and attempted the Atlantic crossing. My ancestors were on a ship that left Ireland in 1729. One family member was an inveterate diarist and he wrote down everything. So we know it stopped at every indent in the Irish coastline, picking up and dropping off, and finally left from Cork, like apparently most did. Though by that time measles had broken out and a third of them died in the crossing including five family members. We only know about that because the future Rev. Charles Clinton Beattie was on board. Most ships didn't have a Charlie Beattie. This ship was bound for New York but after a hideous crossing, they ran short of supplies and docked at P'town in Cape Cod, where the captain tried to extort more money from the passengers who wanted to continue on to New York. The surviving members of my family got off, spent the winter in P'Town entertaining with the Irish harp (they were gentry, not po' folk), and then continued on to the Newburgh area. ALl of which we only know because of Charlie Beattie. It was different then and due to trade winds and bad luck, you didn't always end up where you planned. The really poor came over as indentured servants. The ones in most demand were skilled laborers, which favored Irish Protestants versus unskilled Catholics. Meaning that they could find a captain willing to bet he could sell their indenture in America. After they worked off their indenture, they could then consider earning money to buy a place or moving to the frontier and squatting. The better off came as a family. The fact that they could pay their passage meant that they were better off. They had a larger holding in Ulster and possibly sold the long term lease. ANd possibly recorded the sale. They may have inherited the lease when a parent or other relative died. That may also be recorded. Where? Maybe the deed books. Reading the deed books is one of the strategies one does. Deeds were recorded in Dublin, though, and the further you are from it, the fewer deeds were recorded. Many in Belfast and Antrim, etc, were not. You can try to find lawyers' records in PRONI. However it ain't easy. In colonial America 90% of the population owned land. So the land records are grand. PEople with assets write wills. The wills are grand. Back in Ireland, 95% or more of the people did NOT own land. They didn't record deeds and they didn't have any reason to leave a will. They may appear in the private land records of the estate owner, if you can find them. Few Americans pause to learn how to do research in Ireland in the 1700s -- so they will not succeed because the record situation is entirely different. Still, if your ancestor did come with his family, he had some money to pay for their passage. He may have farmed but he also had a trade: maybe he was a black smith or a hatter like Dan'l BOone, or a weaver. He had a way to make money over there and to make it over here. In ireland people learned trades by being apprenticed. While if one was apprenticed to the father, you didn't pay taxes, but all others were taxed. There are records of apprentice taxes from I think 1706. One example of the type of record that might help you -- if you learn about them. But if you spend your time trying to find a ship list or a baptism, it doesn't matter if you search (on the internet too!!) for 20 years or 50, you will not find these records because they never existed. Non existent records don't, as a rule, survive <grin>. Better to spend a few hours reading Falley "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research" or going to a conference or reading articles than trying to find non existent records. I gotta find the books whose names I can't recall on American immigration! (I just moved). Anyhow the other problem is that the scholars have neglected to study American immigration, so little is known. The scholars dig about and find impossible to read records (for ships, insurance papers are really good: Lloyds!!) and publish them. THen professional genealogists can assess the records for genealogical value and eventually the rest of us learn about them....But since the effort is just underway, we don't know a lot, yet. Maybe we will in 20 years. This evaluation of the status of American Immigration studies is from the book whose name I can't recall....Grrr!!! Not my own assessment. A lot of stuff is on the INternet including early Canadian ships. I did some googling a couple weeks ago on ships id'ed in Dobbin's book on Scottish ships. He did his research in Scotland using Scottish sources, yet there was more info on some ships on the INternet than he had in his book! He might have known that the ship crossed in June 1754, but on the Internet you could get the names of the passengers. Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Sarah" <agape2u@msinter.net> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 12:56:57 -0600 >Many of our ancestors may have left from Dublin Ire. or Belfast in NI. Both >are huge seaports..........Liverpool is about an hour flight from Belfast so >may have been by ferry in early days. They use many ferries now for people >and cars etc. to go back and forth across to Scotland and England. They >would have had to had quite a bit of money to get over to England to get on >ships from there. >We need Linda's idea on this. The poor in early 1720sand before when my >family lines came over may not have had the money to go to England. Linda >what's the truth on this? >Sarah >----- Original Message ----- >From: <Scotch-Irish-D-request@rootsweb.com> >To: <Scotch-Irish-D@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:06 AM >Subject: Scotch-Irish-D Digest V05 #211 > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/194 - Release Date: 12/7/05 > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi Folks, Ancestry Daily News is free. It contains articles written by experts on various topics that often relate to our favorite topics on this list. This article below is on surnames and their spelling. It says: "However, the alternate spellings on the same document were likely irrelevant due to the concept of idem sonans." Read below and learn all about idems sonans. You can subscribe to this at www.ancestry.com with out spending a nickle. It's well worth it too -- without more learning, we are not likely to break through our brick walls. Today it is possible to learn a little more every day without spending any money or even driving down the block to the meeting of the local genealogical society. Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Ancestry Daily News" <newsletter@reply.myfamilyinc.com> Reply-To: <unsubscribe2.i46s444.8.0.116@unsubscribe.myfamily.com> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:22:34 -0000 ===================================================================== ANCESTRY DAILY NEWS ===================================================================== Brought to you by the publishers of "The Source" and "Ancestry" Magazine Sponsored by: Ancestry.com - Over 2 billion searchable family history names http://www.ancestry.com/rd/home.htm MyFamily.com - Upload and share your family tree on a private website http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=ancestrynews3 ===================================================================== For contact and subscription information, please see the bottom of the message. ===================================================================== GET YOUR OWN FAMILY WEBSITE --- Easy, secure and private --- Post and view photos, news, recipes and more --- Send and receive email --- Perfect for the family historian Learn more at: http://www.ancestry.com/s19285/t6177/rd.ashx =================================================================== Your Daily Dose of Genealogy for 07 December 2005 ** You can view this issue of the "Ancestry Daily News" online ** http://www.ancestry.com/rd/prodredir.asp?sourceid=831&key=A1073201 In this issue: - Ancestry Classic Database --- American Emigrant Ministers, 1690-1811 --- Brandenburg, Prussia Emigration - Today's Featured Map --- Saint Peter, Nicollet County, Minnesota 1870 - Beyond the Index: "Ancestral Signatures: Part II," by Michael John Neill - APG Election Results: Moody Elected APG President - Ancestry Quick Tip - Fast Fact: Pearl Harbor Links and Resources - Thought for Today - Clipping of the Day - Ancestry Daily News Product Pick of the Week --- "Names, Names, and More Names: Locating Your Dutch Ancestors in Colonial America," by Arthur C. M. Kelly http://www.ancestry.com/rd/prodredir.asp?sourceid=831&key=P1445 This book is the result of more than thirty years of research of the Dutch patronymic naming system. In it, Arthur C. M. Kelly offers a comprehensive treatment of Dutch patronymic surnames, their variations and origins. Sale price $10. =================================================================== SHARE THE "ANCESTRY DAILY NEWS" Do you have a friend who might enjoy one of today's articles? Why not send it on to them and let them know about our free service? The "Ancestry Daily News" sign-up box is at: http://www.ancestry.com/learn ===================================================================== ANCESTRY CLASSIC DATABASE ===================================================================== AMERICAN EMIGRANT MINISTERS, 1690-1811 This volume contains a list of ministers and other clergy who applied for and received funds from the English crown to compensate for passage to the Americas. Included in the geography are the areas of the West Indies, the entire United States, and Canada. This record includes the emigrant's name, date of departure, destination, and other interesting facts. This data will be helpful for those tracing British clergy. Source Information: Ancestry.com, comp. American Emigrant Ministers, 1690-1811. [database online] Provo, UT: Ancestry.com, 2000. Original data: Fothergill, Gerald. A List of Emigrant Ministers to America, 1690-1811. London: Stock, 1904. Ancestry.com subscribers with access to the U.S. Immigration Collection can access this database at: http://www.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?sourceid=831&dbid=4760 _____________________________________________________________________ Brandenburg, Prussia Emigration Records A province of the Prussian Empire, Brandenburg stretched from the Elbe River to beyond the Oder River and into modern Poland in the 1800s. This database, newly updated, is a collection of government records regarding persons emigrating from the province in the 19th century. Each record provides the emigrant's name, age, occupation, residence, destination, and year of emigration. Part of an ongoing project, the database now contains the names of more than 36,800 persons. The records were taken from microfiche copies of records kept at the main archive in Potsdam (Brandenburgisches Landeshauptarchiv Potsdam). Copies are held by the Family History Library in Salt Lake City. For researchers of German ancestors, this can be a helpful source of information. Source Information: Wolfert, Marion, comp. Brandenburg, Prussia Emigration Records. [database online] Provo, UT: Ancestry.com, 2001. Original data: Auswanderungskartei (emigration cards) located at Brandenburgishes Landeshauptarchiv in Potsdam, Germany or Family History Library microfiche #6109219 (22 total rolls). Ancestry.com subscribers with access to the U.S. Immigration Collection can access this database at: http://www.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?sourceid=831&dbid=4121 =================================================================== TODAY'S FEATURED MAP =================================================================== NOTE: The Ancestry.com Map is available to subscribers with access to the Family and Local History Collection. To subscribe, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/s831/t5367/rd.ashx SAINT PETER, NICOLLET COUNTY, MINNESOTA 1870 http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=locmaps%2c&f3=&f7=Minnesota&f10=&year=&yearend=&gskw=&ti=0&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&fh=17&recid=1043&recoff=5 Perspective map not drawn to scale. Reference: LC Panoramic maps (2nd ed.), 412 Includes illus. and index to points of interest. =================================================================== BEYOND THE INDEX: "ANCESTRAL SIGNATURES: PART II," by Michael John Neill =================================================================== Many readers responded to the recent column on ancestral signatures. Readers who missed this column can view it here (http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=10668). Additional sources of signatures were mentioned, including declarations of intent and autograph books. In a nutshell, any paper your ancestor might have written on could contain his signature. The difficulty is in finding that paper! It was noted that your ancestor's occupation may have resulted in numerous examples of his signature. Census enumerators, county clerks, record keepers, justices of the peace, judges and others may have left their signature (and numerous examples of their handwriting) in many permanently recorded materials. USES OF SIGNATURES Several readers wrote in with creative ways they use their relative's signatures. Some scan at least one signature of every ancestor and use it in addition to or in place of a photograph in their genealogical database. Others have created family trees using signatures instead of pictures. Additional ideas included creating chronologies of signatures showing the change over the years. There are other ways to use ancestral signatures. From a research standpoint, signatures are often used to distinguish between two individuals with the same first and last name. The difficulty lies in obtaining information on your ancestor where the actual paper he signed was retained instead of being transcribed and recorded in that fashion by the clerk. In locations and time periods where it is impossible to obtain a precise date of birth for an individual, linking a "name" to a physical signature may be one way to separate out two seemingly indistinguishable people. OUR ANCESTOR'S HANDWRITING Most of the time the only writing we have on a document from our ancestor is his signature, but we often have nothing for comparison. Our ancestor probably did not actually write out his own will or fill in the blanks on his draft card. Someone else did. This reality increases the difficulty in reading the name if the handwriting is questionable. In many cases, there may be no other writing of the individual with which to compare the signature. A technique used by many genealogists with some documents is to read several pages of records written by the same person so that those writings can be compared to a specific entry or name that is questionable. Most of us cannot do that with an ancestral signature. Compounding the difficulty is that clerk may have been taught a different style of writing from our ancestor, if our ancestor even had formal schooling. TIME PLAYS A ROLE Your ancestor's handwriting might have changed over his lifetime, especially if the signatures cover a fifty year time span. A marriage bond may have been signed when the individual was hale and healthy. A will may have been signed when the person in question was in very ill health. The result is signatures that may look very distinct. Perhaps even different enough that one suspects another person actually signed the record. As with any document, remember we are not privy to exactly what was transpiring when a document was written or signed or how healthy the signer was. All we have is the document; the circumstances under which it was signed have pretty much been lost to history. SPELLING, SCHMELLING Our ancestor might not have known how to spell his name. He might not have cared if he spelled it consistently from one record to another. He might not have cared if it were spelled different ways on the same document, assuming he could even read the paper he signed. To some today the variations seem significant (and sometimes they may provide clues as to how the ancestor might have pronounced the name). However, the alternate spellings on the same document were likely irrelevant due to the concept of idem sonans. According to Black's Law Dictionary idem sonans means, "sounding the same or alike; having the same sound." A term applied to names which are substantially the same, though slightly varied in the spelling. Your ancestor (unless he had a legal background) did not know what idem sonans meant. But idem sonans is why there was no problem when a man is deeded land under the name of James Ramply and sells the same land under the name of James Rampley. Today most of us are pretty obsessive about having our names spelled correctly on various documents and in various databases. Our ancestors were not as concerned and even their own spelling might have reflected it. SIMILAR SIGNATURES There is always the chance that what you think is your ancestor's signature is not actually his signature. An early nineteenth century Fleming County court case contains the signatures of my ancestor Enoch Tinsley and his father James. The writing looks extremely similar. So similar that I think there is a reasonable chance that one person signed both names (I have joked that they had the same second grade teacher, but that is extremely unlikely). One person likely signed both names. I have encountered this more than once. There are two separate occurrences of the signature of my ancestor Sarah (Gibson) Rampley in Harford County, Maryland, and several different instances of her husband James' signature. On a document where both sign, Sarah makes her mark and James signs his name. On an earlier document involving Sarah's inheritance, Sarah's signature appears. Interestingly enough, the "Rampley" Sarah made on the inheritance paper looks very similar to the "Rampley" James wrote on the document where Sarah made her mark. I am now wondering if the signatures were made by the same person. At any rate, they are extremely alike. Remember that interpreting handwriting also requires you to know your ancestor's ethnic background. A native born German was taught a different style of writing from his contemporary growing up in rural Kentucky. Readers who would like to try their hand at reading handwriting can view twenty samples (with answers) that have been posted on my site. (http://www.rootdig.com/signatures/) ___________________________________________________________________ Michael John Neill is the Course I Coordinator at the Genealogical Institute of Mid America (GIMA) held annually in Springfield, Illinois, and is also on the faculty of Carl Sandburg College in Galesburg, Illinois. Michael is currently a member of the board of the Federation of Genealogical Societies (FGS) http://www.fgs.org. He conducts seminars and lectures nationally on a wide variety of genealogical and computer topics and contributes to several genealogical publications, including Ancestry Magazine and Genealogical Computing. You can e-mail him at mailto:mjnrootdig@myfamily.com or visit his website at: http://www.rootdig.com/, but he regrets that he is unable to assist with personal research. Copyright 2005, MyFamily.com. PRINTER-FRIENDLY VERSION http://www.ancestry.com/rd/prodredir.asp?sourceid=831&key=A1073301 =================================================================== APG ELECTION RESULTS: MOODY ELECTED APG PRESIDENT =================================================================== Sharon Tate Moody, a Certified Genealogist (CG) from Sun City Center, Fla., has been elected president of the board of directors of the Association of Professional Genealogists (APG), the world's leading professional organization of family history and related professionals. She will succeed J. Mark Lowe, CG, of Springfield, Tenn. Moody, currently vice president of APG and genealogy columnist for the Tampa Tribune, said, "One of our focuses over the next two years will be to educate the consuming public and the professional community about the broad possibilities of activities that come under the term 'genealogist.' We like to think of APG as an umbrella under which we have gathered researchers, lecturers, editors, publishers, columnists, authors, project managers, librarians, language specialists, photographic experts, heir researchers, adoption specialists, historians, and family reunion organizers." Moody added, "Of course, we will continue to seek opportunities to support professionals in their growth and service to their clients." She was among 15 candidates elected to the APG board for two-year terms starting on Jan. 1, 2006. Jake Gehring of Woods Cross, Utah, currently an APG director and a technology writer and lecturer, was elected vice president of the 1,600-member organization. John V. Wylie of Grand Prairie, Texas, vice president for education of the Dallas Genealogical Society, was elected secretary. APG Secretary Beverly Rice, CG, of Coos Bay, Ore., was elected treasurer. She is also secretary of the Board for Certification of Genealogists. Nine regional director positions will be filled by: Suzanne Russo Adams, Accredited Genealogist, Orem, Utah and Gordon Gray, Colorado Springs, Colo., Region 1 (Western U.S.); David McDonald, CG, DeForest, Wis., and Nancy Waller Thomas, Columbia, Mo., Region 2 (Midwest); Craig Scott, CG, Westminster, Md., and C. Ann Staley, CG, Jacksonville, Fla., both re-elected from Region 3 (Southeast); Pamela S. Eagleson, CG, Kennebunk, Maine and incumbent Maureen A. Taylor, Westwood, Mass., Region 4 (Northeast); and Cornelia Schrader Muggenthaler of Ostra, Italy was returned to office in International Region B. Gary Mokotoff, Bergenfield, N.J., and Pamela Boyer Porter, CG, CGL (Certified Genealogical Lecturer), Chesterfield, Mo., were elected to one-year terms on the nominations committee. The Association of Professional Genealogists (http://www.apgen.org/), established in 1979, represents professional genealogists, people in related professions, and others who do professional-quality work for hire or for themselves. =================================================================== ANCESTRY QUICK TIP =================================================================== CROPPING SAVES INK Before printing out digital images of documents, census records, etc., I run the image through Photoshop Elements and crop the black off the edges. Cropping is the answer! Most photo editing software will do cropping. Joanne Franklin ____________________________________________________________________ Thanks to Joanne for today's Quick Tip! If you have a tip you would like to share with researchers, you can send it to: mailto:ADNeditor@ancestry.com Quick Tips may be reprinted, with credit to the submitter, in other Ancestry publications, so if you do not want your tip included in a publication other than the "Ancestry Daily News" and "Ancestry Weekly Digest," please state so clearly in your message. PRINTER-FRIENDLY http://www.ancestry.com/rd/prodredir.asp?sourceid=831&key=A1073402 ==================================================================== FAST FACT: PEARL HARBOR LINKS AND RESOURCES ==================================================================== Pearl Harbor Remembered (National Geographic) http://plasma.nationalgeographic.com/pearlharbor/ Pearl Harbor Raid, 7 December 1941 -- Overview and Special Image Selection (Department of the Navy-Naval Historical Center) http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/pearlhbr/pearlhbr.htm Pearl Harbor: Remembered http://my.execpc.com/~dschaaf/index.html Pearl Harbor Casualty List http://www.usswestvirginia.org/fulllist.htm The History Place http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/pearl.htm Sequence of events and some photos U.S.S. Arizona http://dizzy.library.arizona.edu/images/USS_Arizona/USS_Arizona.shtml History, photo sources, and list of links U.S.S. Arizona Memorial http://www.nps.gov/usar/ Air Raid on Pearl Harbor Today in History, American Memory Project, Library of Congress http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/today/dec07.html (scroll down) For more information from the Library of Congress, search the American Memory Project at http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/ammemhome.html NARA American Originals Exhibit: "Air Raid on Pearl Harbor. This Is No Drill" http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/american_originals/fdr.html Radiogram and FDR Congressional address, 8 Dec 1941 NARA WWII Exhibit: A People at War http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/a_people_at_war/a_people_at_war.html Pearl Harbor Survivors Association http://members.aol.com/phsasecy97 =================================================================== THOUGHT FOR TODAY =================================================================== Let me, tonight look back across the span Twixt dawn and dark, and to my conscience say- Because of some good act to beast or human- The world is better that I lived today. --- Ella Wheeler Wilcox ===================================================================== CLIPPING OF THE DAY ===================================================================== "The Charleston Daily Mail" (Charleston, West Virginia), 08 December 1941, page 1: U.S. DECLARES STATE OF WAR One Battleship Lost, 1,500 Killed in Hawaii FDR Aide Bares Toll In Air Raid Navy's Failure to Block Quick Blow Explained Washington, Dec. 8. (UP).--The United States forces have destroyed "a number of Japanese planes and submarines" in operations against Japan in the battle of the Pacific, the White House announced today, and the Japanese dive bomber attacks on Hawaii left 3,000 casualties. White House Secretary Stephen T. Early announced that 1,500 persons were wounded and about the same number killed in the dive bomber attacks which Japan launched on the island of Oahu at dawn yesterday. He added that despite the large number of bombs dropped upon the city of Honolulu itself, there were relatively few casualties there. Asked how he deemed it possible for the Japanese aircraft to pierce the outer defenses of the United States' strongholds in the Pacific, Early gave this explanation as representing "expert consensus": "Probably most if not all, of the planes that attacked came from Japanese carriers. The planes were the dive-bomber type. The attack came at dawn and the carriers naturally would have had all night, under cover of darkness, to approach. Counter-Offensive Begins Naval officials, meanwhile, said that the counter-offensive against Japan began the moment the first Japanese bomb exploded on the islands. The White House statement said: "American operations against the Japanese attacking force in the neighborhood of the Hawaiian islands are still continuing. A number of Japanese planes and submarines have been destroyed." ____________________________________________________________________ View this clipping (free database) at: http://content.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=6246&path=10010.1.1&desc=December+8%2c+1941+-+Pearl+Harbor To subscribe to the Historical Newspapers Collection at Ancestry.com, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?sourceid=831&targetid=3505 =================================================================== ANCESTRY DAILY NEWS PRODUCT PICK OF THE WEEK =================================================================== "NAMES, NAMES, AND MORE NAMES: LOCATING YOUR DUTCH ANCESTORS IN COLONIAL AMERICA," by Arthur C. M. Kelly http://www.ancestry.com/rd/prodredir.asp?sourceid=831&key=P1445 This book is the result of more than thirty years of research of the Dutch patronymic naming system. In it, Arthur C. M. Kelly offers a comprehensive treatment of Dutch patronymic surnames, their variations and origins. 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It's my understanding that giving all children the same first name and calling them by their middle names, which are different, is strictly a German custom, neither Scots nor Irish. For example, in my German lines, the first names of all the males was Johann -- Johann Jacob, Johann Josef, etc. In my Scots and Irish lines, they follow the traditional Irish naming pattern already discussed on this site: first son after the mother's father, etc. As far as Saints names go, it is STILL practiced that Catholic children's middle names are of a saint, although not of a saint born on the child's birthdate. And Catholics use a whole lot more variety than John the Baptist and the Blessed Virgin Mary. Try Michael, Francis, Theresa, Anne, Timothy, etc. etc. ad nauseum. All the males in my husband's family line (Scotch-Irish) had the middle name (saint's name) of Francis. Hope this illuminates rather than confuses. Julie Parks

Hi Ron, You need to learn about passenger lists in general and then emigration from Ireland in particular. It's complicated but it's important to understand so you don't .... screw up!!! As Paula pointed out, don't assume they left from Ireland. If you read about any article on Irish emigration or some good books that are about you will learn that more Irish people left from Liverpool than did from Ireland. Why? A very simple reason: More ships. However before you do that, you can get a bead on when they left by using the USA censuses. Each one asked slightly different questions (I'm thinking 1850 to 1930) but the later ones asked generally if you were naturalized (important: why look for naturalization papers for people who said in 4 censues they were not naturalized??), if so when, in some cases. You can narrow down your search, time wise. If you do a google for Passenger lists and also Irish genealogy and/or check our website at http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~merle, you'll start learning, free of charge. You can find plenty of ship lists. They are a VERY SMALL portion of all the ship lists. The collection that is most complete, on line, is ancestry.com. Buy yourself a membership for Christmas. If you want to maximize time, that's the way to go. If you don't find them there, consider that they are among the 1/3rd of Americans who came via Canada. No ship lists till very very late. No border crossings till very very late, about 1900, and you have to study the ones that we have to determine if they might help you. (Names are misleading). There are only a couple approaches to this research. The shotgun approach means spending lots of time searching on the INternet for your ancestors' names in a ship list. Sometimes works but when you are done you got no idea what you have checked. The catfish approach: giving up, you lurk on lists like this waiting for some relative to find him and post to the list you are on (before you die). This is like watching for a meteorite. You can miss that post by one day if you unsub or die. Very slow, but .... easy and high quality it's not. Catfish ain't picky about food but they got lots of patience. Your relative might make a mistake and post the wrong info, so it's best to know enough to evaluate info you get. esp when searching for common surnames like Hamilton. The third approach involves studying the methodology and proceding methodically. This means reading a slim book or so on American ship lists so you understand them and a little about Irish emigration. There are on line bookstores that sell these like www.genealogical.com and ww.ancestry.com "They Came In SHips" by COlletta is highly recommended (and skinny!) or if you can find in a library "The Source" it has a chapter. A too thick chapter probably for someone starting out. Then you can also go to LDS and order film as well as read their free guides. The guides can be got at www.familysearch.org . Their catalog is there too of what ship lists they got. For myself (I do this professionally now), I'd join ancestry.com. Their stated goal is to get ALL US ship lists on line. They got about half of all surviving ones. WHen they are done only 2/3rds of all who came after 1820 will be on line as 1/3rd took the ferry from Canada. Bummer!!!!!!! (WOW does that date me <grin>). Also if they came before 1820 there are no 'ship lists'. That's the name for the offical lists of everyone on board that the US gov passed a law requiring in 1820. Before that date we got some lists that the anal types don't want to call 'ship lists' as it is confusing (and we're already confused). However they are published in ab out 99% of the cases, and indexed. Most are indexed in Filby, who is also now on line at Ancestry.com. SOme arent' in him like the Germans. In colonial times the British law was that non-British subjects had to take an oath on leaving ship, so we got the names of the legal aliens. Not nice Brits like your ancestors and mine. Waw.... So subscribe to Ancestry and search there. Do your US census work there too. THen you will have an idea of when they came. If they manifested in Detroit, go have an Irish coffee with extra caffine and an additional shot: they came through Canada. After the third or forth maybe your ancestor will appear and TELL you when they came <grin>. You can also find a list of ship lists that survive (rats and fires got some) at www.rootsweb.com/~bifhsusa as well as methodologies for searching them, should you have to do that to find them. ALso check Ellis ISland. www.ellisisland.com (I think.... or google for ellis island). Even if they came earlier yuou might find them there for one of two reasons: Castle Garden records transfered there (found MINE that way!) or..... They went back and reentered. (Found MINE that way too!) Best of luck! Your probablem is that there are a zillion John Hamiltons who came over. Which one is yours? If you can get more clues it'll help. LIke the wife's maiden name (and it's something rare, not Smith or WIlson). Also check for obits for your ancestor -- he might have died near the end of the 1800s when obits were more common. It might name where he was born or provide some clue. His tombstone might identify the county of origin. For more clues to immigration research (figuring out where they came from) see www.genealogy.com/university.html --You can buy books on the topic, but these free courses are better than any books I've seen. I use them all the time. Useful charts for example. Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: VistaRon96@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 23:21:56 EST >Greetings, Just discovered my G-G-Grandfather, John (William) HAMILTON, >emigrated from Northern Ireland. He was 15 years old. I do not know who is >parents were. His Father was Scotch, born ca 1800 and his Mother was Irish. He >married in Grant County, Wisconsin in 1858. Their children were: Mary, William, >James (my G-Grandfather), John, Letitia, and Harvey. > >ANY help would be greatly appreciated. > >Ron HABEL >Vista, CA, USA > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

My G-G-Grandfather came to New York from Northern Ireland in 1851. He sailed from Liverpool, England. So, don't rule out that possibility for your ancestor. All of my Irish ancestors sailed from England to America, not from Ireland. Hope this helps, Paula

Forgot to mention he left Ireland in 1840

Greetings, Just discovered my G-G-Grandfather, John (William) HAMILTON, emigrated from Northern Ireland. He was 15 years old. I do not know who is parents were. His Father was Scotch, born ca 1800 and his Mother was Irish. He married in Grant County, Wisconsin in 1858. Their children were: Mary, William, James (my G-Grandfather), John, Letitia, and Harvey. ANY help would be greatly appreciated. Ron HABEL Vista, CA, USA

Hi List, In one of the Genealogical Helpers many yrs ago a column contained information as to a Scotch-Irish naming pattern and I copied it.. 1sr son after the mother's father, 2nd son after the Father's father, 3rd son after the Father, The 4th son after an uncle The same with the girls. 1st girl after the mother's mother, 2nd girl after the father's mother, and 3rd girl after the mother. I've seen this a number of times in articles on family research. Maybe someone else has seen it. Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: <Scotch-Irish-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:01 AM Subject: Scotch-Irish-D Digest V05 #208 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.11/191 - Release Date: 12/2/05

Well surprise, surprise! I found Alice GRIFFITH m Thomas PLUMSTEAD 1 Jan 1864 christened 9 Aug 1835 Appleby, Lincoln, England. Thomas is the grandson of James PLUMSTEAD who's my brick wall. Does anybody have anymore information about her or her family? Thanks for any help. Forrest Plumstead fplum1@gmail.com Researching the following Surnames: Bushouse, Plumstead, Risser, Schroeder, Senne, Thayer, Quaker Families: Coppock, Heald, Hobson, Hollingsworth, Potts, Ross, Watt Plumstead and Associated Families: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum/ Military Kool Lynx: http://geocities.com/fplum/ Ham Radio WB5HQO http://forrest.3h.com/main.html

I phrased that question poorly -- I meant the custom of giving all the sons or daughters the same first name, then a middle name by which they were actually known. Responses point to a partial holdover from a Catholic practice of naming a child after a Saint born on his birth date. That Johann and Maria were almost always used is puzzling, however. Perhaps when they became Protestant & gave up some of the rituals and customs associated with Catholicism, they just decided to limit the honorary names to John the Baptist and the Virgin Mother. Thanks, Virginia > Which custom are you asking about? Anglicizing names? If so, that has > been quite common during American immigration for people from all > countries. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 12/5/2005

Hello, Someone on an Australian List was trying to find out what a "boot clicker" did ! I did a quick search and came across this web site: http://www.scotroots.com/occupations.htm My first thought had been the tiny, metal plates which used to go on the soles of shoes ! And, then, when I found out a "boot clicker" is the one who created the holes in the upper boot where the shoelaces went, it reminded me of an old "trivia question" -- what do you call the little plastic things on the end of shoelaces ! (Someone on the AUS List wrote back to say they are "aglets.") Enjoy ! Betty (near Lowell, MA)

Which custom are you asking about? Anglicizing names? If so, that has been quite common during American immigration for people from all countries. My own family went from Hilgert (German) to Hilliard a generation or two after they arrived here in the mid 1700s, and the Johan first names became Jacobs. Thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of others had their first and last names anglicized (or really just butchered) by the people who were trying to apply spelling to them for the first time at places like Ellis Island. -----Original Message----- From: Virginia Beck [mailto:ginia2@san.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 6:04 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Re: Scotch-Irish-D Digest V05 #204 This sounds akin to what I've been told was the German custom of giving children an "honorary" first name. Some say this was a Saint's name, others that it could be that of a revered leader or ancestor. In the 16-1700s these were Protestants, but I suppose it could have been a Catholic naming convention they continued to follow. In an on-line search, I have been unable to confirm this naming pattern, but in actual research I have come across families where every son was given the same first name - e.g. "Johann", but was always known by his middle name. The same for daughters, where "Maria" seems to have been a favorite. My late husband's immigrant ancestor was Johann Antony or Antonius Beck. He anglicized his name and was known in America as Anthony. Has anyone else heard of this custom? If so, was it restricted to Germany? Virginia > I thought that the "middle" name's origin (was equivalent to) the > "Christian Name" vs "Given Name" naming convention from the Catholic > Church. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.11/191 - Release Date: 12/2/2005

Dear Fellow List Servers, I have just added several hundred pages to my web site that will have some interest to those doing Scots-Irish research as well as research in Co. Monaghan and Cavan. Members of all denominations and ethnic backgrounds are included in the sweep of this work - their geography and relation to the BREAKEY family is the common denominator. The link is: http://www.user.dccnet.com/s.brown/documents/Breakey_Memoirs/My%20Intoduction%20to%20Thomas%20Cathcart%20BREAKY%20Memoirs.htm To quote myself (from the introduction to these pages): Since my index to these two books of Memoirs is alphabetical, this means that it starts with the Old Testament person called Adam and ends with the ancient Greek, Zenophen. Between these two ancient names, there are approximately 500 individuals - most of whom lived in the 1700-1800s and within a day's horse-ride from Ballybay. Thomas Cathcart BREAKEY's Memoirs are also chock full of folk sayings, family stories, histories of the region and insights into the life and character of Thomas Cathcart Breakey. Taken together, these two "books" are quite possibly as idiosyncratic as my attempts at an index. Be forewarned - this not an academic approach - but it does work for me and I will explain. Incidentally, Ballybay is in Co. Monaghan and although people from many other counties are mentioned in this annotated index that I have prepared, most of them come from Cavan or Monaghan. I have also prepared a place names index to complement the surname index. . Enjoy, Sharon Oddie Brown Roberts Creek, BC, Canada THE SILVER BOWL: http://www.user.dccnet.com/s.brown/index.html FAMILY TREE: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=silverbowl

Hi! Yes, it was very common for Germans to give various names and to 'go by' the one closest to the last name. It can really get ya when you are looking for legal documents such as wills because those may be indexed by the (unknown, unused) first name. It was (and is) common for immigrants whose native tongue was not English to anglicize their name so their neighbors and friends could remember and pronounce it. And to feel more like an American, perhaps. I have a Vietnamese friend named Paulette. Other Vietnamese often ask her what her Vietnamese first name is, assuming she has Americanized her name. She gets a little irritated as her given name IS Paulette. This would, I believe, mark her as from an upper class and "Frenchified" Vietnamese family. So in her case Paulette is a Vietnamese first name. Every county has it's name issues <grin>. Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: RLSchind58@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:59:54 EST > >In a message dated 12/3/2005 6:04:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, >ginia2@san.rr.com writes: > >In an on-line search, I have been unable to confirm this naming pattern, but >in actual research I have come across families where every son was given the > >same first name - e.g. "Johann", but was always known by his middle name. >The same for daughters, where "Maria" seems to have been a favorite. My >late husband's immigrant ancestor was Johann Antony or Antonius Beck. He >anglicized his name and was known in America as Anthony. Has anyone else >heard of this custom? If so, was it restricted to Germany? > > > >While I cannot confirm if it was restricted to Germany, my father's German >(Emrick) side, seemed to conform to this naming pattern. They used John as >the first name, but went by their middle names. Therefore, if you don't know >their middle name, it makes it hard to do research. > >My Scotch-Irish side followed the Irish naming patterns fairly closely as >well. > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net