My Nathaniel Barnes and his wife Annis, two sons of four, and their four daughters migrated from Harpswell, to Annapolis county, Nova Scotia in about 1760. Any one recognize that name in Nova Scotia? Chute, Young, Phillips, Lynam, Milbury, are some of the descendant families. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty" <bbffrrpp@comcast.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts > Hi Linda and Karen, > > I just wanted to remind researchers to look in the archives of the > Canadian Lists for some information. You can either search for a > surname or place-name, or something like "Scots Irish" or "Scotch Irish." > > I would imagine that many of them first arrived in Nova Scotia which was > one of the first provinces to be settled, I think. (New Brunswick > annexed off of it around 1784.) And, don't forget the origin of the > name, Nova Scotia ! > > My KERR and HENDERSON ancestors left Ireland around 1823 and went to > Quebec Province ! Some of their descendants continue to live in > Argenteuil County and Compton County, etc. > > If you do a Google search for "Canada History Timeline," you should > find at least one web site offering a timeline for Canada's history, and > that will show you the initial names for the first areas in Canada to be > settled; e.g., "Upper Canada" and "Lower Canada." > > If you go to the archives of the Quebec List, you should find those web > sites posted - possibly during 2004. > > www.rootsweb.com > Mailing List > INDEX > > FYI: My KIDDER ancestor left southern NH in 1783 to go to Canada. He > was about 18 years old, so probably traveled with the families of his > friends ! He went to Nova Scotia, but a year later the part he settled > in became New Brunswick ! > > My RICE ancestor and my WILKINS ancestor both fought in the Rev. War and > then moved to northern Maine, both ~1775 - 1780. So, you can't consider > them Loyalists, but .. they lived among them ! If I'm remembering > correctly, Rev. War soldiers were rewarded with land in "Maine" for their > services ! And, "many" of the families went back and forth over the > Canadian border with some frequency ! (NB / ME, NS / ME) > > And, many Loyalists left New England to head up to Canada, and their towns > are still near the Quebec / VT and NH and NY borders ! > > (I also know of Loyalists who left L.I., NY, and NJ for Nova Scotia !) > > Betty (near Lowell, MA) > > (It's an interesting topic -- the Loyalists !) > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> > To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 8:41 PM > Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts > > >> Hi Karen, >> >> To learn the history of Scotch Irish settlements in Canada you would need >> to check with a history of Canada. I don't myself >> know. >> >> The history of the settlement of Canada is very different from >> the USA. Due to the black fly it was settled later. Partly too >> due to the policy of the British of discouraging settlements. >> >> I know some people moved up there after the Revolution -- >> they are called Loyalists. Some were of Ulster Scots origins. >> A large set of books documenting loyalists has been burnt into a CD and >> is on line at www.genealogy.com (to members). >> >> In addition to Protestant Irish from Ulster, Canada is the home of many, >> many Irish Protestants from outside of Ulster. I did read a book on the >> Irish of Ontario. Most of them were Methodists and NOT from Ulster. I >> believe they largely settled >> there in the early and mid 1800s. It has often been wondered >> where the once large and now completely forgotten Protestant 'minority of >> Ireland went. I believe they went to Ontario. >> >> Most Irish Protestants not in Ulster were not of Scottish >> descent but of English, Welsh, Irish, French, Flemish and German descent. >> (The same holds true for many Ulster >> Protestants, esp. those in counties settled by the English >> during the Plantation). >> >> The American Methodist church was founded by Irish Protestants >> of German descent who migrated in 1708 -- before the mass >> migration of Ulster Scots even began. >> >> Have you tried www.cyndislist.com ?? It would have a large >> section on Canada. >> >> Linda Merle >> >> >> ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >> From: "Karen Hart Anthony" <cushkaren@gwi.net> >> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:46:31 -0500 >> >>>Linda you say about Hanna "It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish >>>settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc." What about >>>known >>>Scots-Irish settlements in Canada. Any ideas of how to learn about >>>those? >>>Karen >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> >>>To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:22 PM >>>Subject: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts >>> >>> >>>> Hi folk, >>>> >>>> Perhaps we can help one another by suggesting books, etc, >>>> to read for Christmas that can help us understand our >>>> ancestors. >>>> >>>> In the USA one is Hanna "The Scotch-Irish". THis book is >>>> in most libraries and on CD. Parts are very dated but parts >>>> are excellent. It includes primary material from the >>>> settlement of Ulster so you can read this and form your >>>> own opinions. It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish >>>> settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc. >>>> It's on line at Ancestry. Maybe for free !! (Check "Scots-Irish"). >>>> >>>> another one is the social history by Leyburn "The Scotch Irish". THis >>>> book >>>> is more more modern. It's chuck full of >>>> good info. >>>> >>>> An excellent american reference book is "The Source". >>>> >>>> The definitive work on Irish and Scotch Irish genealogy is >>>> Falley "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research". >>>> >>>> There is Ryan "Irish Records". >>>> >>>> Billy Kennedy's books are very good, such as "Faith and >>>> Freedom: The Scots-Irish in America". >>>> >>>> You can find these at www.amazon.com, www.genealogical.com, >>>> and www.ancestry.com . And 2nd hand book shops! Try >>>> www.froogle.com . >>>> >>>> ANyone else have suggestions?? >>>> >>>> Linda Merle >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________________________________ >>>> Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________ >> Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ > > ______________________________

You are not quite clear about what you are asking, so I will give a slightly long winded answer. Historically, despite its dangers - strong currents and being open to the Atlantic the North Channel has always been a very important highway between Scotland and Ireland. These currents and tide rips are important in that they did have effects on where ships could easily land For practical purposes we can divide the coast of Ulster up it up into several areas. From Malin Head to Fair Head, From Fair Head to Black Head, from Black Head to Ballyquinten Point, and from Ballyquinten Point south, (including Strangford Lough). While the Ulster coast can be neatly divided up the Scottish Coast is more difficult. There is the area to the north of the Mull of Kintyre, From the Mull of Kintyre to Carsewell Point and from Carsewell point south. On the Ulster side there is limited fishing, but this has traditionally been at its most productive in County Down. The Antrim coast is backed by a raised beach (I think it is the 10M one) which is broken by short rivers which flow down from the Antrim Plateau. The Plateau, while it is not very high is fronted on the sea side by cliffs which are only penetrated by the River Valleys. The two main roads which serve the coast run from Ballymena to Glenariff/Cushendall, and to Carnlough/Glenarm. Cushendun is a river mouth, which only provides shelter for a few small boats The whole North Antrim area has very strong cultural links with the Scottish coast. These links are Gaelic rather than plantation, and the Glens (the nine Glens of Antrim) are distinct from the rest of Antrim in that there is a much higher proportion of Roman Catholics there than in the rest of Antrim. They are very different indeed from the Lowland Scots of the plantation of Antrim. Gaelic was spoken until the early 20th Century. While I have chosen Fair Head as one of the arbitrary divisions of the coast, culturally Ballycastle is part of this community. It is the home town of Keith Cardinal O'Brian the Archbishop of Edinburgh and head of the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland. When I worked in Islay not only could you see the Antrim Coast, people went over for the Lammas Fair in Ballycastle. There has historically always been coming and going across the Ditch. However, transport is a function of the economy, and both Campbeltown and the Glens were primary producers. Ballycastle had a small coal mine, which only met local demand. (eighteenth century attempts at encouraging industry were not particularly successful and the harbour silted up and is now the town tennis court). Carnlough was important for its export of Limestone as was Glenarm. There was also Iron ore, as well as bauxite on the plateau. However this was generally exploited by narrow gage railway to Ballymena and then to Larne, it was not important for the Antrim Coast. There is a picture in the Lawrence Collection of an iron ore jetty near Fair Head. Campbeltown is a plantation town founded by James VI to bring the advantages of civilization to the Highlands. We believe that my ancestors went there from Maybole there in the 17th Century, before going to Ulster. However until well into the 20th Century when there were road improvements the whole of the Kintyre area was only served by sea. The development of car ferries in Scotland rather than passenger ferries meant that there was a demand for a car ferry to Ireland. It was only in the late 1960s / early 1970s that this ferry service was set up between Campbeltown and Red Bay by Western Ferries. While this was commercially a success, because of the security situation it was not possible to continue it. Western Ferries also had a Catamaran running on the Scotland (I can't remember where,) Portrush / Moville route In the 1990s a ferry was set up between Campbeltown and Ballycastle. However rather than being run by Cal-Mac the state run coastal shipping line (who run the Ballycastle / Rathlin service, it was run by a private company to whom Cal-mac had to sell a ship. This was a great rip-off and the service only and fro a few years. There are continued attempts to get a ferry running. However while the routes to Stranrear (and the south shore of the Clyde Estuary are extremely busy, Campbeltown is 140 miles from Glasgow over roads which are at times indifferent. In brief, historically there were ad hoc travel arrangements between the Antrim Coast and Scotland. These did not long last the introduction of Steam which tended to concentrate shipping in the larger ports. Attempts in the past 30 years to run a service have failed for one reason or another. Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Loudene Tollar [mailto:ludiekt@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:16 AM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing Edward, I'm curious about the crossing between the area of Cushendun on the Irish coast and the peninsula of Campbelltown on Scotland's side. As that is such a short distance has it been used much for crossing in years past or is there a reason it wouldn't be? Ludie, freezing in Texas!

Hi List! This week a couple of really good tips were posted on some of the lists which I subscribe to. One involved using search engines and was a reply to one of my posts. The other was a discussion of free genealogy websites vs subscription. I have posted both of these on my Beginner's page. Even though I know that a lot of you are far from being a beginner I still recommend reading these articles. If you are new to cyber genealogy I recommend looking at the entire page! I have also made it easier to navigate the page. It has grown so large that I put a jump off menu at the top of the page which allows you to jump to the particular section you want to read, then return to the index when you are finished. You can still stroll down the entire page if you like. Hope this helps somebody. Main Menu>New to Geneaolgy? Forrest Plumstead fplum1@gmail.com Researching the following Surnames: Bushouse, Plumstead, Risser, Schroeder, Senne, Thayer, Quaker Families: Coppock, Heald, Hobson, Hollingsworth, Potts, Ross, Watt Plumstead and Associated Families: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum/ Military Kool Lynx: http://geocities.com/fplum/ Ham Radio WB5HQO http://forrest.3h.com/main.html

Yes, thank you, Edward. You've given me a lot of good information that answers many of my questions and gives me more. Assuming my Kirks came from Scotland at some time to County Antrim, the question this is where did they come from and how did they get there. I can see by the map there's not much on the peninsula in the Mull of Kintyre region, maybe it's very rocky and not a good farming area. So in the 1600-1700s would the travelers between Antrim and Scotland mostly have taken one of the major routes and then traveled overland to their destination. Like you said, areas of Scotland weren't/aren't easy to travel overland. I've been to the Antrim coast. Those cliffs are high enough for me. Unless it was densely forested, it seems like travel in Antrim would have been easier to travel around. My Kirks were Protestant, so that doesn't fit with the Catholic movement between the two countries. It is all very interesting. For instance with the iron ore I wonder if the soil in certain areas is as red as the areas of eastern Texas that have high iron ore content. Which east Texas has a high Scotch-Irish settlement though many descendants today don't know. Thanks again, Edward. Ludie ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Andrews To: 'Loudene Tollar' ; Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:50 AM Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing You are not quite clear about what you are asking, so I will give a slightly long winded answer. Historically, despite its dangers - strong currents and being open to the Atlantic the North Channel has always been a very important highway between Scotland and Ireland. These currents and tide rips are important in that they did have effects on where ships could easily land For practical purposes we can divide the coast of Ulster up it up into several areas. From Malin Head to Fair Head, From Fair Head to Black Head, from Black Head to Ballyquinten Point, and from Ballyquinten Point south, (including Strangford Lough). While the Ulster coast can be neatly divided up the Scottish Coast is more difficult. There is the area to the north of the Mull of Kintyre, From the Mull of Kintyre to Carsewell Point and from Carsewell point south. On the Ulster side there is limited fishing, but this has traditionally been at its most productive in County Down. The Antrim coast is backed by a raised beach (I think it is the 10M one) which is broken by short rivers which flow down from the Antrim Plateau. The Plateau, while it is not very high is fronted on the sea side by cliffs which are only penetrated by the River Valleys. The two main roads which serve the coast run from Ballymena to Glenariff/Cushendall, and to Carnlough/Glenarm. Cushendun is a river mouth, which only provides shelter for a few small boats The whole North Antrim area has very strong cultural links with the Scottish coast. These links are Gaelic rather than plantation, and the Glens (the nine Glens of Antrim) are distinct from the rest of Antrim in that there is a much higher proportion of Roman Catholics there than in the rest of Antrim. They are very different indeed from the Lowland Scots of the plantation of Antrim. Gaelic was spoken until the early 20th Century. While I have chosen Fair Head as one of the arbitrary divisions of the coast, culturally Ballycastle is part of this community. It is the home town of Keith Cardinal O'Brian the Archbishop of Edinburgh and head of the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland. When I worked in Islay not only could you see the Antrim Coast, people went over for the Lammas Fair in Ballycastle. There has historically always been coming and going across the Ditch. However, transport is a function of the economy, and both Campbeltown and the Glens were primary producers. Ballycastle had a small coal mine, which only met local demand. (eighteenth century attempts at encouraging industry were not particularly successful and the harbour silted up and is now the town tennis court). Carnlough was important for its export of Limestone as was Glenarm. There was also Iron ore, as well as bauxite on the plateau. However this was generally exploited by narrow gage railway to Ballymena and then to Larne, it was not important for the Antrim Coast. There is a picture in the Lawrence Collection of an iron ore jetty near Fair Head. Campbeltown is a plantation town founded by James VI to bring the advantages of civilization to the Highlands. We believe that my ancestors went there from Maybole there in the 17th Century, before going to Ulster. However until well into the 20th Century when there were road improvements the whole of the Kintyre area was only served by sea. The development of car ferries in Scotland rather than passenger ferries meant that there was a demand for a car ferry to Ireland. It was only in the late 1960s / early 1970s that this ferry service was set up between Campbeltown and Red Bay by Western Ferries. While this was commercially a success, because of the security situation it was not possible to continue it. Western Ferries also had a Catamaran running on the Scotland (I can't remember where,) Portrush / Moville route In the 1990s a ferry was set up between Campbeltown and Ballycastle. However rather than being run by Cal-Mac the state run coastal shipping line (who run the Ballycastle / Rathlin service, it was run by a private company to whom Cal-mac had to sell a ship. This was a great rip-off and the service only and fro a few years. There are continued attempts to get a ferry running. However while the routes to Stranrear (and the south shore of the Clyde Estuary are extremely busy, Campbeltown is 140 miles from Glasgow over roads which are at times indifferent. In brief, historically there were ad hoc travel arrangements between the Antrim Coast and Scotland. These did not long last the introduction of Steam which tended to concentrate shipping in the larger ports. Attempts in the past 30 years to run a service have failed for one reason or another. Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Loudene Tollar [mailto:ludiekt@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:16 AM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing Edward, I'm curious about the crossing between the area of Cushendun on the Irish coast and the peninsula of Campbelltown on Scotland's side. As that is such a short distance has it been used much for crossing in years past or is there a reason it wouldn't be? Ludie, freezing in Texas!

Yes, thank you. I know the areas aren't high population and therefore the main ferries would be from the larger ports. Besides that I didn't know if the channel currents had perhaps been the reason larger ports developed elsewhere. Especially since that is the shortest distance between Scotland and Ireland, the Cushendun to Campbelltown route. My Kirk ancestors came to South Carolina in 1772 and from what I've seen they would have come from Larne or Derry. I know they came from Ballymoney so how the route isn't so important. Thank you again.Ludie ----- Original Message ----- From: Gill Smith To: Loudene Tollar ; Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:57 AM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing Hello Ludie The ferry goes from Ballycastle a few miles along the coast, or rather it did. It was mainly a summer service and took over 2 hrs - nearly 3 Historically Ballycastle was developed as a port. There's a piece on this web site that might be of interest One of two lectures delivered by Hugh A Boyd during Ballycastle Civic Week, 1968 http://freespace.virgin.net/robert.starrs/ballycastle/boydbcastle.html Campbeltown-Ballycastle ferry service is under discussion just now - I think they are hoping to resume the sailings soon Dalriada Business Action are trying to do something. I would imagine that boats have always plied across the sea from Cushenden to Campbeltown but Ballycastle was developed as a harbour on a larger scale Sorry I digressed a bit but hope this helps answer your question Gillian Smith in wet, windy Wales! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:16 AM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > Edward, I'm curious about the crossing between the area of Cushendun on > the Irish coast and the peninsula of Campbelltown on Scotland's side. As > that is such a short distance has it been used much for crossing in years > past or is there a reason it wouldn't be? > > Ludie, freezing in Texas! >

Thanks to the Rev. Andrews for giving us the overview of to-ing and fro-ing over the Irish Sea. One thing I might add here is that every year many Irish went to Scotland to work on the farms. They would put in tatties before leaving and harvest them in the fall when they returned. The transport they took every year was apparently from small ports close to themselves. They had little cash and no way to travel to any larger ports. Every year it is estimated that 10% stayed. You do the math .... clearly there is a lot of Irish in Scotland. These people assimilated into the Scottish population with the rapidity that Europeans coming to America assimilated: the first generation had a funny accent, funny habits, and funny last names, but their children were natives and often divested themselves of the funny names and the funny habits. The front essay in Black "Surnames of Scotland" gives some examples of surname changes among IRish immigrants to Scotland. Usually itinerant farm laborers were Catholic, but there was no law to keep poor Protestants from doing the same. Some of the Ordinance Survey Memoirs, written in the 1830s, detail Scottish seasonal emigration from the parish and even give names. During the early 1600s when times were very bad in Ireland especially for Irish Catholics, Parliament in England made many complaints about the large numbers of indigent Irish who left Ireland and were itinerating through England (and no doubt Scotland) looking for work. Many of these people assimilated. I have another book that describes a community in rural England in the early Victorian age. The farms were regularly serviced by groups of Irish laborers who returned every year to the same farms. The upshot is we must divest ourselves of a notion that there were these three countries where from time immemorial, as if rooted in some hillside, our ancestors lived till one day they left somehow. Nooooo....our ancestors moved about, often in response to political and economic conditions. The seas were the super highways and offered opportunity rather than being a barrier. As we learn when we do our DNA studies -- they often got around. When the day of surnames, imposed by the British Gov, arrived, they continued, adopting new ones at will. REgarding Ireland -- from the 1400s at least many Scots-Norse men from the western islands went to Ireland as galloglass soldiers ('galloglass' is Anglicized Irish for foreign soldier'). They were the sherman tanks of their day. Esp. in the 1500s large numbers served under the Irish lords -- and some for the English as well. They often were rewarded by land and women. Several northern Irish clans were started by Galloglass, including the McSweenies. So.... many a proud Irishman is a wee bit Scottish. IN any case these men were Catholic, if Christian at all. They intermarried with the Irish, bringing Scottish surnames to all the counties of Ireland. You can read "Scots Mercenary Soldiers" to learn more about these men. The ENglish established a number of colonies in Ireland in the Elizabethan age. Cork was largely uninhabited after 90% of the people there died after the feuding Irish lords and England killed off their cattle during the Desmond Wars (I think it was) in the 1500s. It's probalby the greatest atrocity of Irish history. In any case, several colonies of English were established there. They assimilated into IRish -- their grandchildren were transported to the west of Ireland by Cromwell. They had become Catholic and Irish speaking by the early 1600s. SOme have commented that the blood types in the SW of Ireland are very English and suggested it was due to english soldiers garrisoned there. More likely it's the blood of English colonists. In America and other lands, our ancestors were quick to move and so they settled a continent. They didn't learn this on the crossing. It was a habit they had always had even before they first came to Scotland as Angles or from Ireland as Scotti or.... from hopped off the ark as Picts and Irish. My ex's DUNCAN line (Isadora Duncan) left Queens Ferry, Scotland in the early 1700s for Donegal, left Donegal for Philadelphia in the 1770s, left Philly for VA, returned to PHilly, went to Indiana and then New Orleans briefly in 1850. Took the boat to San Francisco for the GOld Rush where Isadora was born. Her father (b. Philly, l. VA, then New Orleans, San Francisco, LA) died in a ship wreck off the Welsh coast. Isadora of course lived in New York, Germany, Russia, Paris, and died in the south of France. She left no descendents, but the descendents of her equally foot loose brother, returned to America after two generations in Paris in the 1950s, continued to run a cross Atlantic business till recently, crossing the pond every year. My sister in law lived in Geneva for many years but is now in New York. My brother in law has returned to France and lives in Orange. My ex, after living in NY, Arizona, Mexico, West Virginia, (that I am aware of) settled in Massachusetts. A Scotch Irish family! The theatrical side I believe is O'Gorman -- Isadora's mother was an Irish Catholic. She descends from GRAYS who were loyal supporters of the Catholic Church in Kings CO, Ireland and O'Gormans whose flair for the dramatic is very, very much like Isadora's and her brother Raymond. What can you say except that they are Scotch Irish. NOt the type that settled on a farm in Appalachia and lived there for 3 generations like my mother's family, when has itself sent off sprigs to as far away as Australia, Canada of course, and Mexico, but the kind that got LOTS of footloose genes --- and talent from the Irish side. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Sorry I'm Gillian and live in North Wales, doing Irish and Scottish research Cheers ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Smith" <gilliandavies@lineone.net> To: <VistaRon96@aol.com> Cc: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Ship Passenger List > Hello Ron > > If your 3x great Grandfather was born in Northern Ireland do you know > where > a bouts? > It's possible that his Scottish family originated from Lanarkshire or > Ayrshire. Possibly his father was William going by his and his first son's > name but that's only a guess. > > Many Hamiltons settled in County Down > > Do you have a date of birth for John William and I'll see if I can find > anything out for you? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <VistaRon96@aol.com> > To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 4:21 AM > Subject: [Sc-Ir] Ship Passenger List > > >> Greetings, Just discovered my G-G-Grandfather, John (William) HAMILTON, >> emigrated from Northern Ireland. He was 15 years old. I do not know who >> is >> parents were. His Father was Scotch, born ca 1800 and his Mother was >> Irish. He >> married in Grant County, Wisconsin in 1858. Their children were: Mary, >> William, >> James (my G-Grandfather), John, Letitia, and Harvey. >> >> ANY help would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Ron HABEL >> Vista, CA, USA >> >> >

Hello Ron If your 3x great Grandfather was born in Northern Ireland do you know where a bouts? It's possible that his Scottish family originated from Lanarkshire or Ayrshire. Possibly his father was William going by his and his first son's name but that's only a guess. Many Hamiltons settled in County Down Do you have a date of birth for John William and I'll see if I can find anything out for you? ----- Original Message ----- From: <VistaRon96@aol.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 4:21 AM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Ship Passenger List > Greetings, Just discovered my G-G-Grandfather, John (William) HAMILTON, > emigrated from Northern Ireland. He was 15 years old. I do not know who > is > parents were. His Father was Scotch, born ca 1800 and his Mother was > Irish. He > married in Grant County, Wisconsin in 1858. Their children were: Mary, > William, > James (my G-Grandfather), John, Letitia, and Harvey. > > ANY help would be greatly appreciated. > > Ron HABEL > Vista, CA, USA > >

Oh dear - below I said they left in 1820. It was a typo! They left in 1840. Sorry Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hart Anthony" <cushkaren@gwi.net> To: <merle@mail.fea.net>; <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts > Thanks, Linda. My Irish Protestant (Presbyterian, we think) Ulster > ancestors (my grandfather's grandparents) left Co. Cavan and Co. Armagh in > 1820 and settled in, yes, Ontario, in a little farming town called > Bishop's Mills, south of Ottawa. Its entire name is Bishop's Mills, > Oxford-on-Rideau Township, Ontario, Canada. Their surname was Hart. > There were others of the same ilk there; one other family into which one > of mine married was Minish. Though my people apparently were not > involved, it was the time of the digging of the Rideau Canal. That > project attracted many Irish, and most of it was dug by "Irish." I don't > know if those diggers were Catholic or Protestant; they came, I suppose, > because it was known they could get work. > > So there's a bit of real info for you.... > > The most wonderful part of that tale is that, last summer, we visited the > area, asked around, and were pointed toward the "Hart log cabin" and the > "Minish log cabin." These were the homes built by my ancestors. We were > told that they built something much smaller to live in for about one year > while these more permanent structures were built. They were large, > identical, and solid, and one is lived in and loved now by a young family > who is refurbishing it. I was able to give that young couple a photo of > Maurice Hart (born in Canada Dec. 25, 1840, died September 7, 1928, the > son of the original settlers Samuel Hart and Rebecca Kelly Hart, ) and his > next door neighbor and then wife Catherine Minish (b. approx. 1845, died > March 26, 1911). Catherine Minish had grown up in their log cabin. A > wonderful memory. > > Karen Hart Anthony > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> > To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com>; "Karen Hart Anthony" > <cushkaren@gwi.net> > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 8:41 PM > Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts > > >> Hi Karen, >> >> To learn the history of Scotch Irish settlements in Canada you would need >> to check with a history of Canada. I don't myself >> know. >> >> The history of the settlement of Canada is very different from >> the USA. Due to the black fly it was settled later. Partly too >> due to the policy of the British of discouraging settlements. >> >> I know some people moved up there after the Revolution -- >> they are called Loyalists. Some were of Ulster Scots origins. >> A large set of books documenting loyalists has been burnt into a CD and >> is on line at www.genealogy.com (to members). >> >> In addition to Protestant Irish from Ulster, Canada is the home of many, >> many Irish Protestants from outside of Ulster. I did read a book on the >> Irish of Ontario. Most of them were Methodists and NOT from Ulster. I >> believe they largely settled >> there in the early and mid 1800s. It has often been wondered >> where the once large and now completely forgotten Protestant 'minority of >> Ireland went. I believe they went to Ontario. >> >> Most Irish Protestants not in Ulster were not of Scottish >> descent but of English, Welsh, Irish, French, Flemish and German descent. >> (The same holds true for many Ulster >> Protestants, esp. those in counties settled by the English >> during the Plantation). >> >> The American Methodist church was founded by Irish Protestants >> of German descent who migrated in 1708 -- before the mass >> migration of Ulster Scots even began. >> >> Have you tried www.cyndislist.com ?? It would have a large >> section on Canada. >> >> Linda Merle >> >> >> ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >> From: "Karen Hart Anthony" <cushkaren@gwi.net> >> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:46:31 -0500 >> >>>Linda you say about Hanna "It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish >>>settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc." What about >>>known >>>Scots-Irish settlements in Canada. Any ideas of how to learn about >>>those? >>>Karen >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> >>>To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:22 PM >>>Subject: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts >>> >>> >>>> Hi folk, >>>> >>>> Perhaps we can help one another by suggesting books, etc, >>>> to read for Christmas that can help us understand our >>>> ancestors. >>>> >>>> In the USA one is Hanna "The Scotch-Irish". THis book is >>>> in most libraries and on CD. Parts are very dated but parts >>>> are excellent. It includes primary material from the >>>> settlement of Ulster so you can read this and form your >>>> own opinions. It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish >>>> settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc. >>>> It's on line at Ancestry. Maybe for free !! (Check "Scots-Irish"). >>>> >>>> another one is the social history by Leyburn "The Scotch Irish". THis >>>> book >>>> is more more modern. It's chuck full of >>>> good info. >>>> >>>> An excellent american reference book is "The Source". >>>> >>>> The definitive work on Irish and Scotch Irish genealogy is >>>> Falley "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research". >>>> >>>> There is Ryan "Irish Records". >>>> >>>> Billy Kennedy's books are very good, such as "Faith and >>>> Freedom: The Scots-Irish in America". >>>> >>>> You can find these at www.amazon.com, www.genealogical.com, >>>> and www.ancestry.com . And 2nd hand book shops! Try >>>> www.froogle.com . >>>> >>>> ANyone else have suggestions?? >>>> >>>> Linda Merle >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________________________________ >>>> Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________ >> Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >

Thanks, Linda. My Irish Protestant (Presbyterian, we think) Ulster ancestors (my grandfather's grandparents) left Co. Cavan and Co. Armagh in 1820 and settled in, yes, Ontario, in a little farming town called Bishop's Mills, south of Ottawa. Its entire name is Bishop's Mills, Oxford-on-Rideau Township, Ontario, Canada. Their surname was Hart. There were others of the same ilk there; one other family into which one of mine married was Minish. Though my people apparently were not involved, it was the time of the digging of the Rideau Canal. That project attracted many Irish, and most of it was dug by "Irish." I don't know if those diggers were Catholic or Protestant; they came, I suppose, because it was known they could get work. So there's a bit of real info for you.... The most wonderful part of that tale is that, last summer, we visited the area, asked around, and were pointed toward the "Hart log cabin" and the "Minish log cabin." These were the homes built by my ancestors. We were told that they built something much smaller to live in for about one year while these more permanent structures were built. They were large, identical, and solid, and one is lived in and loved now by a young family who is refurbishing it. I was able to give that young couple a photo of Maurice Hart (born in Canada Dec. 25, 1840, died September 7, 1928, the son of the original settlers Samuel Hart and Rebecca Kelly Hart, ) and his next door neighbor and then wife Catherine Minish (b. approx. 1845, died March 26, 1911). Catherine Minish had grown up in their log cabin. A wonderful memory. Karen Hart Anthony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com>; "Karen Hart Anthony" <cushkaren@gwi.net> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts > Hi Karen, > > To learn the history of Scotch Irish settlements in Canada you would need > to check with a history of Canada. I don't myself > know. > > The history of the settlement of Canada is very different from > the USA. Due to the black fly it was settled later. Partly too > due to the policy of the British of discouraging settlements. > > I know some people moved up there after the Revolution -- > they are called Loyalists. Some were of Ulster Scots origins. > A large set of books documenting loyalists has been burnt into a CD and is > on line at www.genealogy.com (to members). > > In addition to Protestant Irish from Ulster, Canada is the home of many, > many Irish Protestants from outside of Ulster. I did read a book on the > Irish of Ontario. Most of them were Methodists and NOT from Ulster. I > believe they largely settled > there in the early and mid 1800s. It has often been wondered > where the once large and now completely forgotten Protestant 'minority of > Ireland went. I believe they went to Ontario. > > Most Irish Protestants not in Ulster were not of Scottish > descent but of English, Welsh, Irish, French, Flemish and German descent. > (The same holds true for many Ulster > Protestants, esp. those in counties settled by the English > during the Plantation). > > The American Methodist church was founded by Irish Protestants > of German descent who migrated in 1708 -- before the mass > migration of Ulster Scots even began. > > Have you tried www.cyndislist.com ?? It would have a large > section on Canada. > > Linda Merle > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Karen Hart Anthony" <cushkaren@gwi.net> > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:46:31 -0500 > >>Linda you say about Hanna "It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish >>settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc." What about >>known >>Scots-Irish settlements in Canada. Any ideas of how to learn about those? >>Karen >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> >>To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:22 PM >>Subject: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts >> >> >>> Hi folk, >>> >>> Perhaps we can help one another by suggesting books, etc, >>> to read for Christmas that can help us understand our >>> ancestors. >>> >>> In the USA one is Hanna "The Scotch-Irish". THis book is >>> in most libraries and on CD. Parts are very dated but parts >>> are excellent. It includes primary material from the >>> settlement of Ulster so you can read this and form your >>> own opinions. It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish >>> settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc. >>> It's on line at Ancestry. Maybe for free !! (Check "Scots-Irish"). >>> >>> another one is the social history by Leyburn "The Scotch Irish". THis >>> book >>> is more more modern. It's chuck full of >>> good info. >>> >>> An excellent american reference book is "The Source". >>> >>> The definitive work on Irish and Scotch Irish genealogy is >>> Falley "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research". >>> >>> There is Ryan "Irish Records". >>> >>> Billy Kennedy's books are very good, such as "Faith and >>> Freedom: The Scots-Irish in America". >>> >>> You can find these at www.amazon.com, www.genealogical.com, >>> and www.ancestry.com . And 2nd hand book shops! Try >>> www.froogle.com . >>> >>> ANyone else have suggestions?? >>> >>> Linda Merle >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________________________________ >>> Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net > > > > > >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Smith" <gilliandavies@lineone.net> To: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com>; <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > Hello Ludie > > The ferry goes from Ballycastle a few miles along the coast, or rather it > did. > > It was mainly a summer service and took over 2 hrs - nearly 3 > > Historically Ballycastle was developed as a port. There's a piece on this > web site that might be of interest > > One of two lectures delivered by Hugh A Boyd during Ballycastle Civic > Week, 1968 > http://freespace.virgin.net/robert.starrs/ballycastle/boydbcastle.html > > Campbeltown-Ballycastle ferry service is under discussion just now - I > think they are hoping to resume the sailings soon Dalriada Business > Action are trying to do something. > > I would imagine that boats have always plied across the sea from Cushenden > to Campbeltown but Ballycastle was developed as a harbour on a larger > scale > > Sorry I digressed a bit but hope this helps answer your question > > Gillian Smith in wet, windy Wales! > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> > To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:16 AM > Subject: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > > >> Edward, I'm curious about the crossing between the area of Cushendun on >> the Irish coast and the peninsula of Campbelltown on Scotland's side. As >> that is such a short distance has it been used much for crossing in years >> past or is there a reason it wouldn't be? >> >> Ludie, freezing in Texas! >> >

Hello Ludie The ferry goes from Ballycastle a few miles along the coast, or rather it did. It was mainly a summer service and took over 2 hrs - nearly 3 Historically Ballycastle was developed as a port. There's a piece on this web site that might be of interest One of two lectures delivered by Hugh A Boyd during Ballycastle Civic Week, 1968 http://freespace.virgin.net/robert.starrs/ballycastle/boydbcastle.html Campbeltown-Ballycastle ferry service is under discussion just now - I think they are hoping to resume the sailings soon Dalriada Business Action are trying to do something. I would imagine that boats have always plied across the sea from Cushenden to Campbeltown but Ballycastle was developed as a harbour on a larger scale Sorry I digressed a bit but hope this helps answer your question Gillian Smith in wet, windy Wales! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:16 AM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > Edward, I'm curious about the crossing between the area of Cushendun on > the Irish coast and the peninsula of Campbelltown on Scotland's side. As > that is such a short distance has it been used much for crossing in years > past or is there a reason it wouldn't be? > > Ludie, freezing in Texas! >

Hi Loudene, About 16 deg, with a wind-chill factor about 5 deg. -- here just north of Boston ! Just a reminder about what "British citizens" discovered about "their new land" when they arrived during a "New England winter" !! Oh, not to forget the 6" of SNOW .. due tomorrow ! Betty (near Lowell, MA) P.S. I took a "Sunday drive" on Wednesday and went to Lyndeboro, NH, to find out where an aunt was buried. While there, I picked up a copy of the local newspaper ! It has an article about a elderly man in town who had had a string of bad luck ! His original home (small farmhouse) had burned and he was living in a trailer ! Recently a tree fell on his trailer ! He is well-liked in town, so his neighbors got together and are building him a new house ! (12' x 12' - just enough for him). I hope they hurry up and finish the home ! It was DARN COLD up there yesterday ! :o) (At 85, he is writing his memoirs ! So, it's never too late - to write down a story of your life !) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 11:16 PM Subject: Irish Sea Channel crossing > Edward, I'm curious about the crossing between the area of Cushendun on > the Irish coast and the peninsula of Campbelltown on Scotland's side. As > that is such a short distance has it been used much for crossing in years > past or is there a reason it wouldn't be? > > Ludie, freezing in Texas! > ______________________________

Hi Linda and Karen, I just wanted to remind researchers to look in the archives of the Canadian Lists for some information. You can either search for a surname or place-name, or something like "Scots Irish" or "Scotch Irish." I would imagine that many of them first arrived in Nova Scotia which was one of the first provinces to be settled, I think. (New Brunswick annexed off of it around 1784.) And, don't forget the origin of the name, Nova Scotia ! My KERR and HENDERSON ancestors left Ireland around 1823 and went to Quebec Province ! Some of their descendants continue to live in Argenteuil County and Compton County, etc. If you do a Google search for "Canada History Timeline," you should find at least one web site offering a timeline for Canada's history, and that will show you the initial names for the first areas in Canada to be settled; e.g., "Upper Canada" and "Lower Canada." If you go to the archives of the Quebec List, you should find those web sites posted - possibly during 2004. www.rootsweb.com Mailing List INDEX FYI: My KIDDER ancestor left southern NH in 1783 to go to Canada. He was about 18 years old, so probably traveled with the families of his friends ! He went to Nova Scotia, but a year later the part he settled in became New Brunswick ! My RICE ancestor and my WILKINS ancestor both fought in the Rev. War and then moved to northern Maine, both ~1775 - 1780. So, you can't consider them Loyalists, but .. they lived among them ! If I'm remembering correctly, Rev. War soldiers were rewarded with land in "Maine" for their services ! And, "many" of the families went back and forth over the Canadian border with some frequency ! (NB / ME, NS / ME) And, many Loyalists left New England to head up to Canada, and their towns are still near the Quebec / VT and NH and NY borders ! (I also know of Loyalists who left L.I., NY, and NJ for Nova Scotia !) Betty (near Lowell, MA) (It's an interesting topic -- the Loyalists !) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts > Hi Karen, > > To learn the history of Scotch Irish settlements in Canada you would need > to check with a history of Canada. I don't myself > know. > > The history of the settlement of Canada is very different from > the USA. Due to the black fly it was settled later. Partly too > due to the policy of the British of discouraging settlements. > > I know some people moved up there after the Revolution -- > they are called Loyalists. Some were of Ulster Scots origins. > A large set of books documenting loyalists has been burnt into a CD and is > on line at www.genealogy.com (to members). > > In addition to Protestant Irish from Ulster, Canada is the home of many, > many Irish Protestants from outside of Ulster. I did read a book on the > Irish of Ontario. Most of them were Methodists and NOT from Ulster. I > believe they largely settled > there in the early and mid 1800s. It has often been wondered > where the once large and now completely forgotten Protestant 'minority of > Ireland went. I believe they went to Ontario. > > Most Irish Protestants not in Ulster were not of Scottish > descent but of English, Welsh, Irish, French, Flemish and German descent. > (The same holds true for many Ulster > Protestants, esp. those in counties settled by the English > during the Plantation). > > The American Methodist church was founded by Irish Protestants > of German descent who migrated in 1708 -- before the mass > migration of Ulster Scots even began. > > Have you tried www.cyndislist.com ?? It would have a large > section on Canada. > > Linda Merle > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Karen Hart Anthony" <cushkaren@gwi.net> > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:46:31 -0500 > >>Linda you say about Hanna "It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish >>settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc." What about >>known >>Scots-Irish settlements in Canada. Any ideas of how to learn about those? >>Karen >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> >>To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:22 PM >>Subject: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts >> >> >>> Hi folk, >>> >>> Perhaps we can help one another by suggesting books, etc, >>> to read for Christmas that can help us understand our >>> ancestors. >>> >>> In the USA one is Hanna "The Scotch-Irish". THis book is >>> in most libraries and on CD. Parts are very dated but parts >>> are excellent. It includes primary material from the >>> settlement of Ulster so you can read this and form your >>> own opinions. It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish >>> settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc. >>> It's on line at Ancestry. Maybe for free !! (Check "Scots-Irish"). >>> >>> another one is the social history by Leyburn "The Scotch Irish". THis >>> book >>> is more more modern. It's chuck full of >>> good info. >>> >>> An excellent american reference book is "The Source". >>> >>> The definitive work on Irish and Scotch Irish genealogy is >>> Falley "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research". >>> >>> There is Ryan "Irish Records". >>> >>> Billy Kennedy's books are very good, such as "Faith and >>> Freedom: The Scots-Irish in America". >>> >>> You can find these at www.amazon.com, www.genealogical.com, >>> and www.ancestry.com . And 2nd hand book shops! Try >>> www.froogle.com . >>> >>> ANyone else have suggestions?? >>> >>> Linda Merle >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________________________________ >>> Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net > > > > > > ______________________________

Hi Karen, That's great! Dear ol' Ontario. From what I've read, the canals were largely dug by the unfortunate Catholic Irish because it did not involve skilled labor. Because the Catholics were denied schooling and often had no access to the trades in Ireland, they did not emigrate in large numbers during colonial times. People wanted indentured servants who were highly skilled according to this book I have. So even if they had wanted to come, it was difficult for them to find someone to pay their passage except for the Government, of course! No doubt many came as prisoners. America was a penal colony before Australia. Odd... no one ever claims descent from them <grin>!!! Ahem.... One very useful book to read is Timothy J Meagher's "Inventing Irish America". He largely deals with a single New ENgland town but he also discusses all kinds of topics and sheds light on a lot. For example he discusses the regional variation in emigration from Ireland which seems to be largely based on the skill set of the people there. PEople of all religions from the ind ustrialized north and east had the skills to succeed in colonial and post colonial America. People from the west and south did not, so their emigration was delayed. They left when forced by the Famine and often when aided by landlords and when the opportunity for unskilled labor was available in the new world. One of the early waves of Catholic, unskilled labor was the building of the canals in the 1830s. There was a labor shortage in the USA and no doubt Canada, which brought over this early wave. What happened was was happened to later waves who built the railroads and then dug the coal: They did the work and they were overseen by Protestant Irish who had often emigrated in earlier generations. An example is a collateral line on my ANDERSON side. The man worked as an overseer on the canals, banked his salary, and went to med school. There's a number of folk songs about the hard work on the railroads and canals and the coal mines and the archetypical figure of the Protestant boss figures large in the folk consciousness. This continues into the 20th century when immigrants from Poland, Ireland, etc, dug coal in the coal mines under Protestant bosses. My grandfather moved to Western PA at the instigation of his brother who was part owner in the Kinloch coal mine to help run it, but he would never take any position that would have caused him to have to resign from the union. In my childhood we were constantly reminded that you never, ever, discriminated against anyone due to their race, color or creed because that is how the owners divided and conquored you -- as any history of the labor movement will attest. Of course some first generation Protestant Irish men did labor side by side with Catholics, but often they quickly rose in the ranks. So if our Catholic cousins (and they are our cousins) seem bitter -- they got good reason to be. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Thanks Linda Merle, We have found records of some of our line coming over and they were with a large group of Presbyterians. They settled in Lancaster PA and may have been serveyers? They later moved in 1756 down to York SC. they established a Presbyterian church there. While in NI last May we were told that the cemetaries in many counties had been recorded and were in the Linen Hall Lib. My FLeming Line and extended families came from Co.Tyrone and Antrim. We were able to visit these areas and found the church where many worshiped. The cemetary was full of familiar names from records I've researched.. It was only about 2 hrs from Dublin or back over to Belfast. If they wanted to leave out they could have gone several ways. Would have been a journey in those days to go by wagon anywhere.....But they must have as they came over in 1730 from Co. Tyrone NI. They were Presbyterian elders and married into several families they came with. We just have not proof of parents or ship, date of entry etc..... Thanks for the information. After new Years maybe I can look at some of it. We have about 5" of snow tonight and -2 here in Kansas A good time to stay in and do research. Hugging the woodstove and staying warm. We leave soon for Texas and will get back to seraching when we return. Thanks for all the ideas, Merry Christmas to one and all, Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: <Scotch-Irish-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 2:34 PM Subject: Scotch-Irish-D Digest V05 #212 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/194 - Release Date: 12/7/05

Edward, I'm curious about the crossing between the area of Cushendun on the Irish coast and the peninsula of Campbelltown on Scotland's side. As that is such a short distance has it been used much for crossing in years past or is there a reason it wouldn't be? Ludie, freezing in Texas!

Hi, Can anyone help? I am looking for descendants of the following siblings of my Gt GT Grandfather who was Joseph George PENTLAND He was Born: JAN 1851, Tullyrain, Lurgan, Armagh, Ireland. He Died: 1914, Sparkhill, Birmingham. Married: 22 OCT 1870, Shankill Church, Lurgan, Armagh. Wife: Emily FRIER.I know about his sister Isabella Jane Pentland and am happy to exchange what I know with any of the descendants of the following: Moses PENTLAND Born: 1856, Tullylish, Down, Ireland. Robert PENTLAND Born: 1858, Tullylish, Down, Ireland. Valentine PENTLAND Born: 7 DEC 1860, Tullylish, Down, Ireland. Died: AFT 1912, Belfast?. Francis PENTLAND Born: 30 JUL 1863, Knocknagore, Tullylish, Down , Ireland. Died: 24 APR 1924, Drumaran, Tullylish, Down , Ireland. Married: 19 FEB 1914, Seapatrick / Gilford?. Wife: Catherine PROCTOR. Thomas PENTLAND Born: 6 NOV 1865, Banbridge, Down, Ireland. George PENTLAND Born: 11 JUL 1868, Banbridge, Seapatrick,, Down, Ireland. One of these families, probably George's, should have our Family Bible! Colin

You need to think in 18th Century terms. The first thing is that land travel was extremely difficult. While by our standards sea travel was dangerous, it was the way that people went. If you look at sources like RJ Dickson, Ulster Migration to Colonial America 1718-1775, you will see that the people emigrated from a local port. If you go to the Ulster Folk Park and see the size of ship that was used you can see why - the ships were small enough to get into local ports and creeks. When Steam ships were developed you had the same system as the airlines use hub and spoke. One of the main hubs was Liverpool. Remember these ships took a lot of steerage passengers. The ones which were going North about round Ireland would collect people in places like /Derry and Belfast, while those going south about would go to Cobh (then known as Queenstown.)The passengers were transported out to the liners by tenders. Dublin was never a huge sea port in passenger terms, neither was Belfast. It was Dun Laoghaire then called Kingstown which was the passenger port for Dublin. I'm not sure what the Transatlantic passenger facilities were there. Remember that the Steamers from Ireland carried agricultural produce including live cattle to both Liverpool and Glasgow, and the fare and the comfort were both modest. However there would have been a better choice of ship and destination from Liverpool. This is not to say that there were no people travelling from Belfast in Cargo ships, just that it was unusual, and ironically the better off. The whole history of cross Channel passenger traffic on the Irish Sea is a specialist topic in its own right. You've got to remember that there were interesting tie ups between the various companies. For example Burns Laird and Cunard had all kinds of links going back to the 1830s at least Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Sarah [mailto:agape2u@msinter.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 6:57 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Sc-Ir] Re: Scotch-Irish-D Digest V05 #211 Many of our ancestors may have left from Dublin Ire. or Belfast in NI. Both are huge seaports..........Liverpool is about an hour flight from Belfast so may have been by ferry in early days. They use many ferries now for people and cars etc. to go back and forth across to Scotland and England. They would have had to had quite a bit of money to get over to England to get on ships from there. We need Linda's idea on this. The poor in early 1720sand before when my family lines came over may not have had the money to go to England. Linda what's the truth on this? Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: <Scotch-Irish-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:06 AM Subject: Scotch-Irish-D Digest V05 #211 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/194 - Release Date: 12/7/05

Hi Karen, To learn the history of Scotch Irish settlements in Canada you would need to check with a history of Canada. I don't myself know. The history of the settlement of Canada is very different from the USA. Due to the black fly it was settled later. Partly too due to the policy of the British of discouraging settlements. I know some people moved up there after the Revolution -- they are called Loyalists. Some were of Ulster Scots origins. A large set of books documenting loyalists has been burnt into a CD and is on line at www.genealogy.com (to members). In addition to Protestant Irish from Ulster, Canada is the home of many, many Irish Protestants from outside of Ulster. I did read a book on the Irish of Ontario. Most of them were Methodists and NOT from Ulster. I believe they largely settled there in the early and mid 1800s. It has often been wondered where the once large and now completely forgotten Protestant 'minority of Ireland went. I believe they went to Ontario. Most Irish Protestants not in Ulster were not of Scottish descent but of English, Welsh, Irish, French, Flemish and German descent. (The same holds true for many Ulster Protestants, esp. those in counties settled by the English during the Plantation). The American Methodist church was founded by Irish Protestants of German descent who migrated in 1708 -- before the mass migration of Ulster Scots even began. Have you tried www.cyndislist.com ?? It would have a large section on Canada. Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Karen Hart Anthony" <cushkaren@gwi.net> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:46:31 -0500 >Linda you say about Hanna "It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish >settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc." What about known >Scots-Irish settlements in Canada. Any ideas of how to learn about those? >Karen >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> >To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 3:22 PM >Subject: [Sc-Ir] Scotch Irish Christmas Gifts > > >> Hi folk, >> >> Perhaps we can help one another by suggesting books, etc, >> to read for Christmas that can help us understand our >> ancestors. >> >> In the USA one is Hanna "The Scotch-Irish". THis book is >> in most libraries and on CD. Parts are very dated but parts >> are excellent. It includes primary material from the >> settlement of Ulster so you can read this and form your >> own opinions. It also has lists of all known Scotch Irish >> settlements in colonial America and their ministers, etc. >> It's on line at Ancestry. Maybe for free !! (Check "Scots-Irish"). >> >> another one is the social history by Leyburn "The Scotch Irish". THis book >> is more more modern. It's chuck full of >> good info. >> >> An excellent american reference book is "The Source". >> >> The definitive work on Irish and Scotch Irish genealogy is >> Falley "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research". >> >> There is Ryan "Irish Records". >> >> Billy Kennedy's books are very good, such as "Faith and >> Freedom: The Scots-Irish in America". >> >> You can find these at www.amazon.com, www.genealogical.com, >> and www.ancestry.com . And 2nd hand book shops! Try >> www.froogle.com . >> >> ANyone else have suggestions?? >> >> Linda Merle >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________ >> Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net