----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Smith" <gilliandavies@lineone.net> To: "Edward Andrews" <edward.andrews@btinternet.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing The sea is the link to communications not a barrier I agree with you about the area of coastal trade being a specialised subject I looked at it for a research degree some years ago - only for pre-historic trading links between Ireland,Wales and the West Coast of Scotland - evidence from monument types and artefact distribution ( including the stone axe trade) I won't go on as everyone will be comatose! I'm interested in the social history / communication network too. Strangely enough when I lived in Scotland I didn't sail to Ireland from there -all my trips are from Holyhead and that's another story! Do you live in Scotland? Indeed a complex one here! Cheers Gill > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Edward Andrews" <edward.andrews@btinternet.com> > To: "'Gill Smith'" <gilliandavies@lineone.net>; > <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 10:25 PM > Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > > >> It is very important that we remember that the vast majority of the >> Scottish >> settlers were lowlanders. (This is not to say that there were no >> highlanders, just that the majority were from the lowlands and the >> Borders >> and they would have come from the South Clyde or the Solway. >> Campbeltown is a bit of a red herring as it is Highland with Lowland >> settlers.(Historically there were two Church of Scotland Churches in >> Campbeltown, Highland and Lowland. (a bit like Ulster). >> Always remember it is easier to sail than walk. I'm going to Ireland >> later >> next week and if I could I'd take a ferry from Troon rather than drive >> the >> A77 to Stranrear. >> The whole Ards Peninsula is thick with wee harbours, and there were a lot >> of wee ships owned down there. Remember that in almost living memory >> schooners traded between large parts of the County Down coast and Belfast >> as >> the Railway only went to Donaghadee in the Ards, and then to Downpatrick >> and >> Newcastle (the junction was Newtownards). Antrim as much more limited by >> the >> Plateau edge. I don't know about the ports of county /Derry. Once you get >> round to Donegal and points west and south again there are lots of wee >> ports >> and that was where the labourers came from. >> As I said before the whole coastal trade is a very specialised area of >> History. I know a wee bit about late 19th Century and then 20th Century >> which was really the =demise of Sail and the heyday of steam. In the >> 1940s >> it was puffers which took the Limestone from Antrim. By the 1960s it was >> Dutch - the Hans traded out of Carnlough. >> Edward Andrews >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gill Smith [mailto:gilliandavies@lineone.net] >> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:59 PM >> To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Fw: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gill Smith" <gilliandavies@lineone.net> >> To: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> >> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing >> >> >> Hi it's Gill again >> >> Obviously I didn't have the thread of your original question >> >> Kirk is a fairly popular name in Dumfrieshire and Galloway ,Ayrshire and >> Renfrewshire >> >> There was alot of movement between the southern areas of Scotland and >> Dumfries and Galloway around the sixteenth century onwards because of the >> political situation between England (and Wales) and Scotland and then the >> Plantation of Ulster >> >> You probably know all this >> >> When Henry V111 defeated James 1V at Flodden the situation was unsettled >> After James V's defeat at Hadden Rig, Berwickshire the following 'rough >> wooing' drove alot of people out of southern Scotland. and some went to >> Ireland >> >> Following this James V1( 1 st of England) merged the two crowns placing >> further religious and political pressures on the population of southern >> Scotland - this in turn led to further movement to Ireland by southern >> Scots >> >> The settlement of Ireland increased with the land - letting on their >> estayes >> by Sir James Hamilton and Hugh Montgomery immediately prior to the Ulster >> Plantation. Many of the Planters were from Ayrshire, Wigton,Dumfrieshire >> and >> Kirkcudbrighshire. >> >> Many settled the 'lower' half of Antrim. There had been Scottish >> influence >> there further north back in the 1500's. This pattern fits the 'Protestant >> route ' >> >> It's possible that your ancestors (if originating in Scotland) sailed >> from >> Portpatrick (the main port in mid C17) which was later linked to Dumfries >> by >> a military road improving the communication network. across the land. >> The military road network improved cross country access after c 1724 >> >> Port Patrick was a very important port during the Ulster Plantations, >> developing throughout the C18 as the main port for Scottish - Irish trade >> in >> livestock which was then walked over land to the markets at Dumfries and >> further afield. >> >> Historically there was rivalry between Larne and Donsghdee which had >> strong >> shipping links with Portpatrick back in the early 1600's. The first >> documented mention is c 1616 >> http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~leighann/county/travel.html >> >> gives a bit about "Ower the Sheuch" Travel between Scotland and Ireland >> on >> the Wigtownshire Pages and is worth a look. >> >> The Stewartry Museum in Kircudbrighshire would also help >> >> Depending on when they moved to Ireland- >> There's no particular reason why the would sail from the Campbeltown area >> with a busy, main port at Portpatrick >> >> I'm interested in the subject as some of my ancestors were Master >> Mariners >> who lived in and sailed out of Kirkcudbrigh. I also have Irish ancestry >> North and South I lived a long time in Scotland and know all the areas >> mentioned well. >> >> From the 1400s Kircudbrighshire was important for overseas trade . >> Over a quarter of Scotland's cloth exports were loaded at the quays on >> the >> River Dee and traded over great distances. The harbour developing later >> >> Carsethorn (near Kirkbean), Dumfries was first mentioned as a port in >> 1562. >> There was heavy trade from here to England, abroad and to Ireland - it's >> a >> possibiltiy that they sailed from here (as did John Paul Jones in 1760) >> if >> they were from the area around Dumfries.. >> >> Hope this helps a bit more on the where they might have sailed from >> Scotland theme >> >> Gill in North Wales (with views of Ireland on a good day) >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> >> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:05 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing >>> >>> >>>> Yes, thank you, Edward. You've given me a lot of good information that >>>> answers many of my questions and gives me more. Assuming my Kirks came >>>> from Scotland at some time to County Antrim, the question this is where >>>> did they come from and how did they get there. I can see by the map >>>> there's not much on the peninsula in the Mull of Kintyre region, maybe >>>> it's very rocky and not a good farming area. So in the 1600-1700s would >>>> the travelers between Antrim and Scotland mostly have taken one of the >>>> major routes and then traveled overland to their destination. Like you >>>> said, areas of Scotland weren't/aren't easy to travel overland. >>>> >>>> I've been to the Antrim coast. Those cliffs are high enough for me. >>>> Unless it was densely forested, it seems like travel in Antrim would >>>> have been easier to travel around. >>>> >>>> My Kirks were Protestant, so that doesn't fit with the Catholic >>>> movement >>>> between the two countries. >>>> >>>> It is all very interesting. For instance with the iron ore I wonder if >>>> the soil in certain areas is as red as the areas of eastern Texas that >>>> have high iron ore content. Which east Texas has a high Scotch-Irish >>>> settlement though many descendants today don't know. >>>> >>>> Thanks again, Edward. Ludie >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Edward Andrews >>>> To: 'Loudene Tollar' ; Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:50 AM >>>> Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing >>>> >>>> >>>> You are not quite clear about what you are asking, so I will give a >>>> slightly long winded answer. >>>> Historically, despite its dangers - strong currents and being open to >>>> the >>>> Atlantic the North Channel has always been a very important highway >>>> between >>>> Scotland and Ireland. >>>> These currents and tide rips are important in that they did have >>>> effects >>>> on >>>> where ships could easily land >>>> For practical purposes we can divide the coast of Ulster up it up into >>>> several areas. From Malin Head to Fair Head, From Fair Head to Black >>>> Head, >>>> from Black Head to Ballyquinten Point, and from Ballyquinten Point >>>> south, >>>> (including Strangford Lough). >>>> While the Ulster coast can be neatly divided up the Scottish Coast is >>>> more >>>> difficult. There is the area to the north of the Mull of Kintyre, From >>>> the >>>> Mull of Kintyre to Carsewell Point and from Carsewell point south. >>>> On the Ulster side there is limited fishing, but this has traditionally >>>> been at its most productive in County Down. >>>> The Antrim coast is backed by a raised beach (I think it is the 10M >>>> one) >>>> which is broken by short rivers which flow down from the Antrim >>>> Plateau. >>>> The >>>> Plateau, while it is not very high is fronted on the sea side by cliffs >>>> which are only penetrated by the River Valleys. >>>> The two main roads which serve the coast run from Ballymena to >>>> Glenariff/Cushendall, and to Carnlough/Glenarm. Cushendun is a river >>>> mouth, >>>> which only provides shelter for a few small boats >>>> The whole North Antrim area has very strong cultural links with the >>>> Scottish coast. These links are Gaelic rather than plantation, and the >>>> Glens >>>> (the nine Glens of Antrim) are distinct from the rest of Antrim in that >>>> there is a much higher proportion of Roman Catholics there than in the >>>> rest >>>> of Antrim. They are very different indeed from the Lowland Scots of the >>>> plantation of Antrim. Gaelic was spoken until the early 20th Century. >>>> While I have chosen Fair Head as one of the arbitrary divisions of the >>>> coast, culturally Ballycastle is part of this community. It is the home >>>> town >>>> of Keith Cardinal O'Brian the Archbishop of Edinburgh and head of the >>>> Roman >>>> Catholic Church in Scotland. >>>> When I worked in Islay not only could you see the Antrim Coast, people >>>> went >>>> over for the Lammas Fair in Ballycastle. There has historically always >>>> been >>>> coming and going across the Ditch. >>>> However, transport is a function of the economy, and both Campbeltown >>>> and >>>> the Glens were primary producers. Ballycastle had a small coal mine, >>>> which >>>> only met local demand. (eighteenth century attempts at encouraging >>>> industry >>>> were not particularly successful and the harbour silted up and is now >>>> the >>>> town tennis court). Carnlough was important for its export of Limestone >>>> as >>>> was Glenarm. There was also Iron ore, as well as bauxite on the >>>> plateau. >>>> However this was generally exploited by narrow gage railway to >>>> Ballymena >>>> and >>>> then to Larne, it was not important for the Antrim Coast. There is a >>>> picture >>>> in the Lawrence Collection of an iron ore jetty near Fair Head. >>>> Campbeltown is a plantation town founded by James VI to bring the >>>> advantages of civilization to the Highlands. We believe that my >>>> ancestors >>>> went there from Maybole there in the 17th Century, before going to >>>> Ulster. >>>> However until well into the 20th Century when there were road >>>> improvements >>>> the whole of the Kintyre area was only served by sea. The development >>>> of >>>> car >>>> ferries in Scotland rather than passenger ferries meant that there was >>>> a >>>> demand for a car ferry to Ireland. >>>> It was only in the late 1960s / early 1970s that this ferry service >>>> was >>>> set up between Campbeltown and Red Bay by Western Ferries. While this >>>> was >>>> commercially a success, because of the security situation it was not >>>> possible to continue it. >>>> Western Ferries also had a Catamaran running on the Scotland (I can't >>>> remember where,) Portrush / Moville route >>>> In the 1990s a ferry was set up between Campbeltown and Ballycastle. >>>> However rather than being run by Cal-Mac the state run coastal shipping >>>> line >>>> (who run the Ballycastle / Rathlin service, it was run by a private >>>> company >>>> to whom Cal-mac had to sell a ship. This was a great rip-off and the >>>> service >>>> only and fro a few years. There are continued attempts to get a ferry >>>> running. However while the routes to Stranrear (and the south shore of >>>> the >>>> Clyde Estuary are extremely busy, Campbeltown is 140 miles from Glasgow >>>> over >>>> roads which are at times indifferent. >>>> In brief, historically there were ad hoc travel arrangements between >>>> the >>>> Antrim Coast and Scotland. These did not long last the introduction of >>>> Steam >>>> which tended to concentrate shipping in the larger ports. Attempts in >>>> the >>>> past 30 years to run a service have failed for one reason or another. >>>> Edward Andrews >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Loudene Tollar [mailto:ludiekt@juno.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:16 AM >>>> To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >>>> Subject: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing >>>> >>>> Edward, I'm curious about the crossing between the area of Cushendun on >>>> the >>>> Irish coast and the peninsula of Campbelltown on Scotland's side. As >>>> that >>>> is such a short distance has it been used much for crossing in years >>>> past >> >>>> or >>>> >>>> is there a reason it wouldn't be? >>>> >>>> Ludie, freezing in Texas! >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> >

It is very important that we remember that the vast majority of the Scottish settlers were lowlanders. (This is not to say that there were no highlanders, just that the majority were from the lowlands and the Borders and they would have come from the South Clyde or the Solway. Campbeltown is a bit of a red herring as it is Highland with Lowland settlers.(Historically there were two Church of Scotland Churches in Campbeltown, Highland and Lowland. (a bit like Ulster). Always remember it is easier to sail than walk. I'm going to Ireland later next week and if I could I'd take a ferry from Troon rather than drive the A77 to Stranrear. The whole Ards Peninsula is thick with wee harbours, and there were a lot of wee ships owned down there. Remember that in almost living memory schooners traded between large parts of the County Down coast and Belfast as the Railway only went to Donaghadee in the Ards, and then to Downpatrick and Newcastle (the junction was Newtownards). Antrim as much more limited by the Plateau edge. I don't know about the ports of county /Derry. Once you get round to Donegal and points west and south again there are lots of wee ports and that was where the labourers came from. As I said before the whole coastal trade is a very specialised area of History. I know a wee bit about late 19th Century and then 20th Century which was really the =demise of Sail and the heyday of steam. In the 1940s it was puffers which took the Limestone from Antrim. By the 1960s it was Dutch - the Hans traded out of Carnlough. Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Gill Smith [mailto:gilliandavies@lineone.net] Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:59 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Fw: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Smith" <gilliandavies@lineone.net> To: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing Hi it's Gill again Obviously I didn't have the thread of your original question Kirk is a fairly popular name in Dumfrieshire and Galloway ,Ayrshire and Renfrewshire There was alot of movement between the southern areas of Scotland and Dumfries and Galloway around the sixteenth century onwards because of the political situation between England (and Wales) and Scotland and then the Plantation of Ulster You probably know all this When Henry V111 defeated James 1V at Flodden the situation was unsettled After James V's defeat at Hadden Rig, Berwickshire the following 'rough wooing' drove alot of people out of southern Scotland. and some went to Ireland Following this James V1( 1 st of England) merged the two crowns placing further religious and political pressures on the population of southern Scotland - this in turn led to further movement to Ireland by southern Scots The settlement of Ireland increased with the land - letting on their estayes by Sir James Hamilton and Hugh Montgomery immediately prior to the Ulster Plantation. Many of the Planters were from Ayrshire, Wigton,Dumfrieshire and Kirkcudbrighshire. Many settled the 'lower' half of Antrim. There had been Scottish influence there further north back in the 1500's. This pattern fits the 'Protestant route ' It's possible that your ancestors (if originating in Scotland) sailed from Portpatrick (the main port in mid C17) which was later linked to Dumfries by a military road improving the communication network. across the land. The military road network improved cross country access after c 1724 Port Patrick was a very important port during the Ulster Plantations, developing throughout the C18 as the main port for Scottish - Irish trade in livestock which was then walked over land to the markets at Dumfries and further afield. Historically there was rivalry between Larne and Donsghdee which had strong shipping links with Portpatrick back in the early 1600's. The first documented mention is c 1616 http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~leighann/county/travel.html gives a bit about "Ower the Sheuch" Travel between Scotland and Ireland on the Wigtownshire Pages and is worth a look. The Stewartry Museum in Kircudbrighshire would also help Depending on when they moved to Ireland- There's no particular reason why the would sail from the Campbeltown area with a busy, main port at Portpatrick I'm interested in the subject as some of my ancestors were Master Mariners who lived in and sailed out of Kirkcudbrigh. I also have Irish ancestry North and South I lived a long time in Scotland and know all the areas mentioned well. From the 1400s Kircudbrighshire was important for overseas trade . Over a quarter of Scotland's cloth exports were loaded at the quays on the River Dee and traded over great distances. The harbour developing later Carsethorn (near Kirkbean), Dumfries was first mentioned as a port in 1562. There was heavy trade from here to England, abroad and to Ireland - it's a possibiltiy that they sailed from here (as did John Paul Jones in 1760) if they were from the area around Dumfries.. Hope this helps a bit more on the where they might have sailed from Scotland theme Gill in North Wales (with views of Ireland on a good day) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > > >> Yes, thank you, Edward. You've given me a lot of good information that >> answers many of my questions and gives me more. Assuming my Kirks came >> from Scotland at some time to County Antrim, the question this is where >> did they come from and how did they get there. I can see by the map >> there's not much on the peninsula in the Mull of Kintyre region, maybe >> it's very rocky and not a good farming area. So in the 1600-1700s would >> the travelers between Antrim and Scotland mostly have taken one of the >> major routes and then traveled overland to their destination. Like you >> said, areas of Scotland weren't/aren't easy to travel overland. >> >> I've been to the Antrim coast. Those cliffs are high enough for me. >> Unless it was densely forested, it seems like travel in Antrim would >> have been easier to travel around. >> >> My Kirks were Protestant, so that doesn't fit with the Catholic movement >> between the two countries. >> >> It is all very interesting. For instance with the iron ore I wonder if >> the soil in certain areas is as red as the areas of eastern Texas that >> have high iron ore content. Which east Texas has a high Scotch-Irish >> settlement though many descendants today don't know. >> >> Thanks again, Edward. Ludie >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Edward Andrews >> To: 'Loudene Tollar' ; Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:50 AM >> Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing >> >> >> You are not quite clear about what you are asking, so I will give a >> slightly long winded answer. >> Historically, despite its dangers - strong currents and being open to the >> Atlantic the North Channel has always been a very important highway >> between >> Scotland and Ireland. >> These currents and tide rips are important in that they did have effects >> on >> where ships could easily land >> For practical purposes we can divide the coast of Ulster up it up into >> several areas. From Malin Head to Fair Head, From Fair Head to Black >> Head, >> from Black Head to Ballyquinten Point, and from Ballyquinten Point south, >> (including Strangford Lough). >> While the Ulster coast can be neatly divided up the Scottish Coast is >> more >> difficult. There is the area to the north of the Mull of Kintyre, From >> the >> Mull of Kintyre to Carsewell Point and from Carsewell point south. >> On the Ulster side there is limited fishing, but this has traditionally >> been at its most productive in County Down. >> The Antrim coast is backed by a raised beach (I think it is the 10M one) >> which is broken by short rivers which flow down from the Antrim Plateau. >> The >> Plateau, while it is not very high is fronted on the sea side by cliffs >> which are only penetrated by the River Valleys. >> The two main roads which serve the coast run from Ballymena to >> Glenariff/Cushendall, and to Carnlough/Glenarm. Cushendun is a river >> mouth, >> which only provides shelter for a few small boats >> The whole North Antrim area has very strong cultural links with the >> Scottish coast. These links are Gaelic rather than plantation, and the >> Glens >> (the nine Glens of Antrim) are distinct from the rest of Antrim in that >> there is a much higher proportion of Roman Catholics there than in the >> rest >> of Antrim. They are very different indeed from the Lowland Scots of the >> plantation of Antrim. Gaelic was spoken until the early 20th Century. >> While I have chosen Fair Head as one of the arbitrary divisions of the >> coast, culturally Ballycastle is part of this community. It is the home >> town >> of Keith Cardinal O'Brian the Archbishop of Edinburgh and head of the >> Roman >> Catholic Church in Scotland. >> When I worked in Islay not only could you see the Antrim Coast, people >> went >> over for the Lammas Fair in Ballycastle. There has historically always >> been >> coming and going across the Ditch. >> However, transport is a function of the economy, and both Campbeltown and >> the Glens were primary producers. Ballycastle had a small coal mine, >> which >> only met local demand. (eighteenth century attempts at encouraging >> industry >> were not particularly successful and the harbour silted up and is now the >> town tennis court). Carnlough was important for its export of Limestone >> as >> was Glenarm. There was also Iron ore, as well as bauxite on the plateau. >> However this was generally exploited by narrow gage railway to Ballymena >> and >> then to Larne, it was not important for the Antrim Coast. There is a >> picture >> in the Lawrence Collection of an iron ore jetty near Fair Head. >> Campbeltown is a plantation town founded by James VI to bring the >> advantages of civilization to the Highlands. We believe that my ancestors >> went there from Maybole there in the 17th Century, before going to >> Ulster. >> However until well into the 20th Century when there were road >> improvements >> the whole of the Kintyre area was only served by sea. The development of >> car >> ferries in Scotland rather than passenger ferries meant that there was a >> demand for a car ferry to Ireland. >> It was only in the late 1960s / early 1970s that this ferry service was >> set up between Campbeltown and Red Bay by Western Ferries. While this was >> commercially a success, because of the security situation it was not >> possible to continue it. >> Western Ferries also had a Catamaran running on the Scotland (I can't >> remember where,) Portrush / Moville route >> In the 1990s a ferry was set up between Campbeltown and Ballycastle. >> However rather than being run by Cal-Mac the state run coastal shipping >> line >> (who run the Ballycastle / Rathlin service, it was run by a private >> company >> to whom Cal-mac had to sell a ship. This was a great rip-off and the >> service >> only and fro a few years. There are continued attempts to get a ferry >> running. However while the routes to Stranrear (and the south shore of >> the >> Clyde Estuary are extremely busy, Campbeltown is 140 miles from Glasgow >> over >> roads which are at times indifferent. >> In brief, historically there were ad hoc travel arrangements between the >> Antrim Coast and Scotland. These did not long last the introduction of >> Steam >> which tended to concentrate shipping in the larger ports. Attempts in the >> past 30 years to run a service have failed for one reason or another. >> Edward Andrews >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Loudene Tollar [mailto:ludiekt@juno.com] >> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:16 AM >> To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing >> >> Edward, I'm curious about the crossing between the area of Cushendun on >> the >> Irish coast and the peninsula of Campbelltown on Scotland's side. As >> that >> is such a short distance has it been used much for crossing in years past >> or >> >> is there a reason it wouldn't be? >> >> Ludie, freezing in Texas! >> >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Smith" <gilliandavies@lineone.net> To: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing Hi it's Gill again Obviously I didn't have the thread of your original question Kirk is a fairly popular name in Dumfrieshire and Galloway ,Ayrshire and Renfrewshire There was alot of movement between the southern areas of Scotland and Dumfries and Galloway around the sixteenth century onwards because of the political situation between England (and Wales) and Scotland and then the Plantation of Ulster You probably know all this When Henry V111 defeated James 1V at Flodden the situation was unsettled After James V's defeat at Hadden Rig, Berwickshire the following 'rough wooing' drove alot of people out of southern Scotland. and some went to Ireland Following this James V1( 1 st of England) merged the two crowns placing further religious and political pressures on the population of southern Scotland - this in turn led to further movement to Ireland by southern Scots The settlement of Ireland increased with the land - letting on their estayes by Sir James Hamilton and Hugh Montgomery immediately prior to the Ulster Plantation. Many of the Planters were from Ayrshire, Wigton,Dumfrieshire and Kirkcudbrighshire. Many settled the 'lower' half of Antrim. There had been Scottish influence there further north back in the 1500's. This pattern fits the 'Protestant route ' It's possible that your ancestors (if originating in Scotland) sailed from Portpatrick (the main port in mid C17) which was later linked to Dumfries by a military road improving the communication network. across the land. The military road network improved cross country access after c 1724 Port Patrick was a very important port during the Ulster Plantations, developing throughout the C18 as the main port for Scottish - Irish trade in livestock which was then walked over land to the markets at Dumfries and further afield. Historically there was rivalry between Larne and Donsghdee which had strong shipping links with Portpatrick back in the early 1600's. The first documented mention is c 1616 http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~leighann/county/travel.html gives a bit about "Ower the Sheuch" Travel between Scotland and Ireland on the Wigtownshire Pages and is worth a look. The Stewartry Museum in Kircudbrighshire would also help Depending on when they moved to Ireland- There's no particular reason why the would sail from the Campbeltown area with a busy, main port at Portpatrick I'm interested in the subject as some of my ancestors were Master Mariners who lived in and sailed out of Kirkcudbrigh. I also have Irish ancestry North and South I lived a long time in Scotland and know all the areas mentioned well. From the 1400s Kircudbrighshire was important for overseas trade . Over a quarter of Scotland's cloth exports were loaded at the quays on the River Dee and traded over great distances. The harbour developing later Carsethorn (near Kirkbean), Dumfries was first mentioned as a port in 1562. There was heavy trade from here to England, abroad and to Ireland - it's a possibiltiy that they sailed from here (as did John Paul Jones in 1760) if they were from the area around Dumfries.. Hope this helps a bit more on the where they might have sailed from Scotland theme Gill in North Wales (with views of Ireland on a good day) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > > >> Yes, thank you, Edward. You've given me a lot of good information that >> answers many of my questions and gives me more. Assuming my Kirks came >> from Scotland at some time to County Antrim, the question this is where >> did they come from and how did they get there. I can see by the map >> there's not much on the peninsula in the Mull of Kintyre region, maybe >> it's very rocky and not a good farming area. So in the 1600-1700s would >> the travelers between Antrim and Scotland mostly have taken one of the >> major routes and then traveled overland to their destination. Like you >> said, areas of Scotland weren't/aren't easy to travel overland. >> >> I've been to the Antrim coast. Those cliffs are high enough for me. >> Unless it was densely forested, it seems like travel in Antrim would >> have been easier to travel around. >> >> My Kirks were Protestant, so that doesn't fit with the Catholic movement >> between the two countries. >> >> It is all very interesting. For instance with the iron ore I wonder if >> the soil in certain areas is as red as the areas of eastern Texas that >> have high iron ore content. Which east Texas has a high Scotch-Irish >> settlement though many descendants today don't know. >> >> Thanks again, Edward. Ludie >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Edward Andrews >> To: 'Loudene Tollar' ; Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:50 AM >> Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing >> >> >> You are not quite clear about what you are asking, so I will give a >> slightly long winded answer. >> Historically, despite its dangers - strong currents and being open to the >> Atlantic the North Channel has always been a very important highway >> between >> Scotland and Ireland. >> These currents and tide rips are important in that they did have effects >> on >> where ships could easily land >> For practical purposes we can divide the coast of Ulster up it up into >> several areas. From Malin Head to Fair Head, From Fair Head to Black >> Head, >> from Black Head to Ballyquinten Point, and from Ballyquinten Point south, >> (including Strangford Lough). >> While the Ulster coast can be neatly divided up the Scottish Coast is >> more >> difficult. There is the area to the north of the Mull of Kintyre, From >> the >> Mull of Kintyre to Carsewell Point and from Carsewell point south. >> On the Ulster side there is limited fishing, but this has traditionally >> been at its most productive in County Down. >> The Antrim coast is backed by a raised beach (I think it is the 10M one) >> which is broken by short rivers which flow down from the Antrim Plateau. >> The >> Plateau, while it is not very high is fronted on the sea side by cliffs >> which are only penetrated by the River Valleys. >> The two main roads which serve the coast run from Ballymena to >> Glenariff/Cushendall, and to Carnlough/Glenarm. Cushendun is a river >> mouth, >> which only provides shelter for a few small boats >> The whole North Antrim area has very strong cultural links with the >> Scottish coast. These links are Gaelic rather than plantation, and the >> Glens >> (the nine Glens of Antrim) are distinct from the rest of Antrim in that >> there is a much higher proportion of Roman Catholics there than in the >> rest >> of Antrim. They are very different indeed from the Lowland Scots of the >> plantation of Antrim. Gaelic was spoken until the early 20th Century. >> While I have chosen Fair Head as one of the arbitrary divisions of the >> coast, culturally Ballycastle is part of this community. It is the home >> town >> of Keith Cardinal O'Brian the Archbishop of Edinburgh and head of the >> Roman >> Catholic Church in Scotland. >> When I worked in Islay not only could you see the Antrim Coast, people >> went >> over for the Lammas Fair in Ballycastle. There has historically always >> been >> coming and going across the Ditch. >> However, transport is a function of the economy, and both Campbeltown and >> the Glens were primary producers. Ballycastle had a small coal mine, >> which >> only met local demand. (eighteenth century attempts at encouraging >> industry >> were not particularly successful and the harbour silted up and is now the >> town tennis court). Carnlough was important for its export of Limestone >> as >> was Glenarm. There was also Iron ore, as well as bauxite on the plateau. >> However this was generally exploited by narrow gage railway to Ballymena >> and >> then to Larne, it was not important for the Antrim Coast. There is a >> picture >> in the Lawrence Collection of an iron ore jetty near Fair Head. >> Campbeltown is a plantation town founded by James VI to bring the >> advantages of civilization to the Highlands. We believe that my ancestors >> went there from Maybole there in the 17th Century, before going to >> Ulster. >> However until well into the 20th Century when there were road >> improvements >> the whole of the Kintyre area was only served by sea. The development of >> car >> ferries in Scotland rather than passenger ferries meant that there was a >> demand for a car ferry to Ireland. >> It was only in the late 1960s / early 1970s that this ferry service was >> set up between Campbeltown and Red Bay by Western Ferries. While this was >> commercially a success, because of the security situation it was not >> possible to continue it. >> Western Ferries also had a Catamaran running on the Scotland (I can't >> remember where,) Portrush / Moville route >> In the 1990s a ferry was set up between Campbeltown and Ballycastle. >> However rather than being run by Cal-Mac the state run coastal shipping >> line >> (who run the Ballycastle / Rathlin service, it was run by a private >> company >> to whom Cal-mac had to sell a ship. This was a great rip-off and the >> service >> only and fro a few years. There are continued attempts to get a ferry >> running. However while the routes to Stranrear (and the south shore of >> the >> Clyde Estuary are extremely busy, Campbeltown is 140 miles from Glasgow >> over >> roads which are at times indifferent. >> In brief, historically there were ad hoc travel arrangements between the >> Antrim Coast and Scotland. These did not long last the introduction of >> Steam >> which tended to concentrate shipping in the larger ports. Attempts in the >> past 30 years to run a service have failed for one reason or another. >> Edward Andrews >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Loudene Tollar [mailto:ludiekt@juno.com] >> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:16 AM >> To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing >> >> Edward, I'm curious about the crossing between the area of Cushendun on >> the >> Irish coast and the peninsula of Campbelltown on Scotland's side. As >> that >> is such a short distance has it been used much for crossing in years past >> or >> >> is there a reason it wouldn't be? >> >> Ludie, freezing in Texas! >> >

I'm certainly learning and it is interesting. I was thinking in terms of the curraghs I saw in the south and west of Ireland as possible means of fishing and getting between Scotland and Ireland. Yes, and understand many too poor to own even so small a boat. Ludie ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Andrews To: 'Loudene Tollar' ; Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 6:50 PM Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing Puffers are steam lighters. They were pretty well ubiquitous steam lighters which traded not only in the Scottish Islands but also to Ireland, especially the smaller harbours. The definitive thing about the puffers was their size. Less than (I think) 66 feet long so that they could pass through the Crinan Canal. Due to the Para Handy stories Puffers are much loved, but nearly extinct in Scotland. The sailing predecessor was a Gabbot. Under the Basalt which makes up the Antrim Plateau is Chalk. This is a form of Limestone and has a number of industrial uses. Unfortunately the Industries which used it have now mainly shut down. Someone was asking of there was red dust over the Antrim Plateau. Well no. The Antrim Plateau where the Iron is worked is a bog. However at the oxide ponds in Larne where the oar was dumped there use to be a lot of dust blown about. However in the 45 years since I lived in Larne things have been cleaned up and a dual carriage way road runs over the ponds. I think that you have a slightly distorted view of how people travelled. The very poor people would have hitched a lift on a cargo or fishing boat. To own your own boat meant real wealth. While we tell stories about people crossing the ditch - and people have swum it. People regularly rowed it to get the Church, I once had a hugely scary three days stick in the middle of the Firth of Clyde in a gale in a Yacht, while in 1953 the Stranrear Larne Ferry the Princess Victoria foundered in a gale with the loss of about 130 passengers. Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Loudene Tollar [mailto:ludiekt@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 11:59 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing I apparently created some confusion by mentioning my Kirks after asking the question. I was primarily just curious about the viability of travel between Scotland and Ireland at the place of shortest distance. Outside of the obvious sparsely settled area of Scotland I wondered if there was bad currents, etc that might have prevented it. Especially for small boats that presumably the average poor people would have had to use. And the knowledge that many people traveled to and from the two countries at will. A family history stated that our ancestor Kirk was born in Scotland and he is found in County Antrim, Ireland probably at least as early as 1750. I didn't mean to imply that I was thinking that route was how he came to be in Ireland though it could have been. I just wanted to have some knowledge of the area. And speaking of. What do you mean by the puffers (the steam ships?)? And what is the Limestone? I don't want to paint with a broad stroke when I say not many today in Texas (let's not even mention other southern states) that have much knowledge about Texas history much less early US history and even less about Ireland, Scotland and England. We're kind of late getting into it. So what may seem common information to many is Greek to me. And I do appreciate it. Ludie

Hi William, I have some interesting information on Beattys and the Reivers on my webpage: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/hstry/btyhist.htm Nelda Nelda's websites - Please visit http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member

As my grandkids would say, "NEAT!" That goes back to my original question, which all have answered well. The water looks quite calm and smooth there. So apprently even 200 years ago small boats would have no problem making the trip. At least in good weather. Ludie From: Mark Thompson To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:57 PM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel Crossing To pick up on Edward's point, the sea crossing is very short. I live near one of the wee harbours he refers to, and I know local people who jetski across to Scotland. A local guy has a RIB boat and he can get from Ballywalter harbour in Ulster to Portpatrick harbour in Scotland in 25 minutes! (lots of fuel and horse power!) If you have a look at this link you can see a photo I took up near Torr Head in County Antrim this summer. The Mull of Kintyre is amazingly close. http://www.lowcountryboys.com/hismap6.html Regards, Mark

Hi William and Linda, This email I think actually goes more to Linda a I only joined this list when I got her answer to you William, via PML. I also descend from the same Beatty family as Linda. There is a Beatty DNA project at MTDNA.com (all spellings) I think we have 75 members tested? try: Description This group is established to organize and coordinate a project to test DNA samples of males with Beaty (all spellings) surnames. The purpose of this testing is to aid in the determination of ancestry and lineages. the mailing list is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GenMatch/ If you want to learn more about this effort, go to the Beatty DNA Project at http://www.beattydna.org/. Linda, Our Beatty lineage is at my website. But there is a blurp at connections on the Beatty DNA website: url: http://www.beattydna.org/Connections.html which you might find interesting. Please let me know what you think and Linda maybe we can compare lineages? Nelda Nelda's websites - Please visit http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member Source: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Hi William, Both my parents have BEATTIE lines. If you check the early records of the Ulster Plantation that are in Hanna "Scotch-Irish", you will see that in the Irish plantation of Cavan, Precint of Tullaghgarvy, allocated to 'natives' -- ie Irish, 262 acres went to Henry Betagh, gentleman. The surname of Beatty is, according to some, Irish in origin. Some believe it is occupational from the Irish meaning public vitualler. It is still found in Athlone in its Irish form. Others believe it orginated in Meath. Most likely, since the Scots also spoke Erse, it originated in any number of places like other occupational surnames. So some Beatties in Ireland are Irish natives. The descendents of Henry (above) lost their land in the Cromwellian or Williamite settlement (I forget). They may well have stayed on, nearby, say, in Monaghan. Donno..... One of my lines is Scottish -- never left, and the other left Ayre, served in the Irish army in the mid 1600s, was an officer in King WIlliam's army, received a land grant in Antrim, it is believed, and definitely took to the ocean in 1729. The second wife of John was the sister of the grandfather of Dewitt Clinton. One of John's children by Christina Clinton was the future Rev Charles Clinton Beatty, the first missionary west of the Alleghenies. Uncle Charlie attended the coronation of King George in Engerland (his Clintons were English gentry who once held the earldom of Lancaster) and died in Barbados, converting the locals. I believe there is a Border clan DNA study (google) that may be the fastest way to determine the origin of your Beatties. Nonetheless as a double Beattie, I will welcome you to the clan if you will help round up the Maxwells who took our land. I need to get my dad's DNA tested. We have an occupational surname. Donno who we really 'are'!!! We lost our clan!!! We have no identity.... Probably we'll do the border DNA project as we're from Weardale, Co Durham. Linda Merle

I apparently created some confusion by mentioning my Kirks after asking the question. I was primarily just curious about the viability of travel between Scotland and Ireland at the place of shortest distance. Outside of the obvious sparsely settled area of Scotland I wondered if there was bad currents, etc that might have prevented it. Especially for small boats that presumably the average poor people would have had to use. And the knowledge that many people traveled to and from the two countries at will. A family history stated that our ancestor Kirk was born in Scotland and he is found in County Antrim, Ireland probably at least as early as 1750. I didn't mean to imply that I was thinking that route was how he came to be in Ireland though it could have been. I just wanted to have some knowledge of the area. And speaking of. What do you mean by the puffers (the steam ships?)? And what is the Limestone? I don't want to paint with a broad stroke when I say not many today in Texas (let's not even mention other southern states) that have much knowledge about Texas history much less early US history and even less about Ireland, Scotland and England. We're kind of late getting into it. So what may seem common information to many is Greek to me. And I do appreciate it. Ludie ----- Original Message ----- From: Edward Andrews To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing It is very important that we remember that the vast majority of the Scottish settlers were lowlanders. (This is not to say that there were no highlanders, just that the majority were from the lowlands and the Borders and they would have come from the South Clyde or the Solway. Campbeltown is a bit of a red herring as it is Highland with Lowland settlers.(Historically there were two Church of Scotland Churches in Campbeltown, Highland and Lowland. (a bit like Ulster). Always remember it is easier to sail than walk. I'm going to Ireland later next week and if I could I'd take a ferry from Troon rather than drive the A77 to Stranrear. The whole Ards Peninsula is thick with wee harbours, and there were a lot of wee ships owned down there. Remember that in almost living memory schooners traded between large parts of the County Down coast and Belfast as the Railway only went to Donaghadee in the Ards, and then to Downpatrick and Newcastle (the junction was Newtownards). Antrim as much more limited by the Plateau edge. I don't know about the ports of county /Derry. Once you get round to Donegal and points west and south again there are lots of wee ports and that was where the labourers came from. As I said before the whole coastal trade is a very specialised area of History. I know a wee bit about late 19th Century and then 20th Century which was really the =demise of Sail and the heyday of steam. In the 1940s it was puffers which took the Limestone from Antrim. By the 1960s it was Dutch - the Hans traded out of Carnlough. Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Gill Smith [mailto:gilliandavies@lineone.net] Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:59 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Fw: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gill Smith" <gilliandavies@lineone.net> To: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing Hi it's Gill again Obviously I didn't have the thread of your original question Kirk is a fairly popular name in Dumfrieshire and Galloway ,Ayrshire and Renfrewshire There was alot of movement between the southern areas of Scotland and Dumfries and Galloway around the sixteenth century onwards because of the political situation between England (and Wales) and Scotland and then the Plantation of Ulster You probably know all this When Henry V111 defeated James 1V at Flodden the situation was unsettled After James V's defeat at Hadden Rig, Berwickshire the following 'rough wooing' drove alot of people out of southern Scotland. and some went to Ireland Following this James V1( 1 st of England) merged the two crowns placing further religious and political pressures on the population of southern Scotland - this in turn led to further movement to Ireland by southern Scots The settlement of Ireland increased with the land - letting on their estayes by Sir James Hamilton and Hugh Montgomery immediately prior to the Ulster Plantation. Many of the Planters were from Ayrshire, Wigton,Dumfrieshire and Kirkcudbrighshire. Many settled the 'lower' half of Antrim. There had been Scottish influence there further north back in the 1500's. This pattern fits the 'Protestant route ' It's possible that your ancestors (if originating in Scotland) sailed from Portpatrick (the main port in mid C17) which was later linked to Dumfries by a military road improving the communication network. across the land. The military road network improved cross country access after c 1724 Port Patrick was a very important port during the Ulster Plantations, developing throughout the C18 as the main port for Scottish - Irish trade in livestock which was then walked over land to the markets at Dumfries and further afield. Historically there was rivalry between Larne and Donsghdee which had strong shipping links with Portpatrick back in the early 1600's. The first documented mention is c 1616 http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~leighann/county/travel.html gives a bit about "Ower the Sheuch" Travel between Scotland and Ireland on the Wigtownshire Pages and is worth a look. The Stewartry Museum in Kircudbrighshire would also help Depending on when they moved to Ireland- There's no particular reason why the would sail from the Campbeltown area with a busy, main port at Portpatrick I'm interested in the subject as some of my ancestors were Master Mariners who lived in and sailed out of Kirkcudbrigh. I also have Irish ancestry North and South I lived a long time in Scotland and know all the areas mentioned well. From the 1400s Kircudbrighshire was important for overseas trade . Over a quarter of Scotland's cloth exports were loaded at the quays on the River Dee and traded over great distances. The harbour developing later Carsethorn (near Kirkbean), Dumfries was first mentioned as a port in 1562. There was heavy trade from here to England, abroad and to Ireland - it's a possibiltiy that they sailed from here (as did John Paul Jones in 1760) if they were from the area around Dumfries.. Hope this helps a bit more on the where they might have sailed from Scotland theme Gill in North Wales (with views of Ireland on a good day) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > > >> Yes, thank you, Edward. You've given me a lot of good information that >> answers many of my questions and gives me more. Assuming my Kirks came >> from Scotland at some time to County Antrim, the question this is where >> did they come from and how did they get there. I can see by the map >> there's not much on the peninsula in the Mull of Kintyre region, maybe >> it's very rocky and not a good farming area. So in the 1600-1700s would >> the travelers between Antrim and Scotland mostly have taken one of the >> major routes and then traveled overland to their destination. Like you >> said, areas of Scotland weren't/aren't easy to travel overland. >> >> I've been to the Antrim coast. Those cliffs are high enough for me. >> Unless it was densely forested, it seems like travel in Antrim would >> have been easier to travel around. >> >> My Kirks were Protestant, so that doesn't fit with the Catholic movement >> between the two countries. >> >> It is all very interesting. For instance with the iron ore I wonder if >> the soil in certain areas is as red as the areas of eastern Texas that >> have high iron ore content. Which east Texas has a high Scotch-Irish >> settlement though many descendants today don't know. >> >> Thanks again, Edward. Ludie >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Edward Andrews >> To: 'Loudene Tollar' ; Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:50 AM >> Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing >> >> >> You are not quite clear about what you are asking, so I will give a >> slightly long winded answer. >> Historically, despite its dangers - strong currents and being open to the >> Atlantic the North Channel has always been a very important highway >> between >> Scotland and Ireland. >> These currents and tide rips are important in that they did have effects >> on >> where ships could easily land >> For practical purposes we can divide the coast of Ulster up it up into >> several areas. From Malin Head to Fair Head, From Fair Head to Black >> Head, >> from Black Head to Ballyquinten Point, and from Ballyquinten Point south, >> (including Strangford Lough). >> While the Ulster coast can be neatly divided up the Scottish Coast is >> more >> difficult. There is the area to the north of the Mull of Kintyre, From >> the >> Mull of Kintyre to Carsewell Point and from Carsewell point south. >> On the Ulster side there is limited fishing, but this has traditionally >> been at its most productive in County Down. >> The Antrim coast is backed by a raised beach (I think it is the 10M one) >> which is broken by short rivers which flow down from the Antrim Plateau. >> The >> Plateau, while it is not very high is fronted on the sea side by cliffs >> which are only penetrated by the River Valleys. >> The two main roads which serve the coast run from Ballymena to >> Glenariff/Cushendall, and to Carnlough/Glenarm. Cushendun is a river >> mouth, >> which only provides shelter for a few small boats >> The whole North Antrim area has very strong cultural links with the >> Scottish coast. These links are Gaelic rather than plantation, and the >> Glens >> (the nine Glens of Antrim) are distinct from the rest of Antrim in that >> there is a much higher proportion of Roman Catholics there than in the >> rest >> of Antrim. They are very different indeed from the Lowland Scots of the >> plantation of Antrim. Gaelic was spoken until the early 20th Century. >> While I have chosen Fair Head as one of the arbitrary divisions of the >> coast, culturally Ballycastle is part of this community. It is the home >> town >> of Keith Cardinal O'Brian the Archbishop of Edinburgh and head of the >> Roman >> Catholic Church in Scotland. >> When I worked in Islay not only could you see the Antrim Coast, people >> went >> over for the Lammas Fair in Ballycastle. There has historically always >> been >> coming and going across the Ditch. >> However, transport is a function of the economy, and both Campbeltown and >> the Glens were primary producers. Ballycastle had a small coal mine, >> which >> only met local demand. (eighteenth century attempts at encouraging >> industry >> were not particularly successful and the harbour silted up and is now the >> town tennis court). Carnlough was important for its export of Limestone >> as >> was Glenarm. There was also Iron ore, as well as bauxite on the plateau. >> However this was generally exploited by narrow gage railway to Ballymena >> and >> then to Larne, it was not important for the Antrim Coast. There is a >> picture >> in the Lawrence Collection of an iron ore jetty near Fair Head. >> Campbeltown is a plantation town founded by James VI to bring the >> advantages of civilization to the Highlands. We believe that my ancestors >> went there from Maybole there in the 17th Century, before going to >> Ulster. >> However until well into the 20th Century when there were road >> improvements >> the whole of the Kintyre area was only served by sea. The development of >> car >> ferries in Scotland rather than passenger ferries meant that there was a >> demand for a car ferry to Ireland. >> It was only in the late 1960s / early 1970s that this ferry service was >> set up between Campbeltown and Red Bay by Western Ferries. While this was >> commercially a success, because of the security situation it was not >> possible to continue it. >> Western Ferries also had a Catamaran running on the Scotland (I can't >> remember where,) Portrush / Moville route >> In the 1990s a ferry was set up between Campbeltown and Ballycastle. >> However rather than being run by Cal-Mac the state run coastal shipping >> line >> (who run the Ballycastle / Rathlin service, it was run by a private >> company >> to whom Cal-mac had to sell a ship. This was a great rip-off and the >> service >> only and fro a few years. There are continued attempts to get a ferry >> running. However while the routes to Stranrear (and the south shore of >> the >> Clyde Estuary are extremely busy, Campbeltown is 140 miles from Glasgow >> over >> roads which are at times indifferent. >> In brief, historically there were ad hoc travel arrangements between the >> Antrim Coast and Scotland. These did not long last the introduction of >> Steam >> which tended to concentrate shipping in the larger ports. Attempts in the >> past 30 years to run a service have failed for one reason or another. >> Edward Andrews >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Loudene Tollar [mailto:ludiekt@juno.com] >> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:16 AM >> To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing >> >> Edward, I'm curious about the crossing between the area of Cushendun on >> the >> Irish coast and the peninsula of Campbelltown on Scotland's side. As >> that >> is such a short distance has it been used much for crossing in years past >> or >> >> is there a reason it wouldn't be? >> >> Ludie, freezing in Texas! >> >

Couldnt resist a trip down memory lane when you mention planting tatties and itinerant workfers. I lived on a farm in Sussex during WWII and for many years - right through the 40s and 50s, a labour gang of about a dozen Irish men came every year for the potatoe harvest. I was always amazed by the size of their hands and their ability to shovel handfulls of potatoes (English = spuds ) and dirt into the bags. They were on piece work - by the 1.1/4cwt bag hence the farmer was always arguing about too much dirt being bagged up - a regular batle of wits !. Even today there are labour gangs organised as cheap labour, though they tend to be from Eastern Europe, or other `poor` countries, and are accustomed to hard manual labour on the land. Last year there was the tragedy of Chinese cockle gatherers trapped by the tide in Morecambe Bay, and drowned ( which harps back to what Edward was saying about rip tides and the dangerous waters around the UK shores). On the matter of ri[p tides off the coast of Scotland, The most dangerous spot in the sea around Scotland is said to be the whirlpool of Corryvreckan which lies north of Jura near the Argyll coast. Corryvreckan is a Gaelic word meaning "the whirlpool of Breacan" who was a chief of the Picts who drowned there. Even in good weather the sea boils and it is dangerous to sail near at any time. In bad weather the water swirls violently and appears as if being sucked into a pit. The whirlpool is apparently caused by the meeting of several tides, but Gaelic legend has it that beneath it lies the home of a sea beast. Brian

I find all of this information about the life of our ancestors, including the work, religion, politics and moving between countries as the need arose very interesting. And while I enjoy reading, these snapshots get to the heart much faster. I'm just happy to have so many knowledge souls around to listen to. Ludie Trinity, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Orr To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Tatties and dangerous waters. Couldnt resist a trip down memory lane when you mention planting tatties and itinerant workfers. I lived on a farm in Sussex during WWII and for many years - right through the 40s and 50s, a labour gang of about a dozen Irish men came every year for the potatoe harvest. I was always amazed by the size of their hands and their ability to shovel handfulls of potatoes (English = spuds ) and dirt into the bags. They were on piece work - by the 1.1/4cwt bag hence the farmer was always arguing about too much dirt being bagged up - a regular batle of wits !. Even today there are labour gangs organised as cheap labour, though they tend to be from Eastern Europe, or other `poor` countries, and are accustomed to hard manual labour on the land. Last year there was the tragedy of Chinese cockle gatherers trapped by the tide in Morecambe Bay, and drowned ( which harps back to what Edward was saying about rip tides and the dangerous waters around the UK shores). On the matter of ri[p tides off the coast of Scotland, The most dangerous spot in the sea around Scotland is said to be the whirlpool of Corryvreckan which lies north of Jura near the Argyll coast. Corryvreckan is a Gaelic word meaning "the whirlpool of Breacan" who was a chief of the Picts who drowned there. Even in good weather the sea boils and it is dangerous to sail near at any time. In bad weather the water swirls violently and appears as if being sucked into a pit. The whirlpool is apparently caused by the meeting of several tides, but Gaelic legend has it that beneath it lies the home of a sea beast. Brian

I second this one, even when you are searching for later records. I was positive my maternal grandfather (German immigrant to Wisconsin, 1854), an itinerant saw-sharpener for lumber mills, had never left ANY record of his presence anywhere. He didn't attend any church, hold a regular job, or earn enough money to buy any property. His job required him to travel from mill to mill, and he certainly didn't get any paid vacations, so he was rarely at home for any length of time. He was away when the one census where he was mentioned was taken, and the inaccurate information given came from his oldest daughter. Ever hopeful, however, I entered his name in a Wisconsin land record site, and lo & behold, he had filed homestead papers on 200 acres! I guess that was a hopeful moment for him, but he evidently failed to follow up. To be fair, he may have had good intentions, but the lumber industry began to falter in Wisconsin, so he moved to Washington State soon after the filing. I never met the old codger, who deserted his wife & nine girls soon after he moved the family to Washington, and left Grandma Hester to raise them on her own, far from family & friends . . . In the hands of a skilled writer, her story would make a good novel! Virginia >That's because for someone doing genealogy what is important to recognise > >is the criticality of land records in colonial America. 90% of your > ancestors will appear in SOME land record. Very possibly > NOT the one you need them in -- if your experience is anywhere > similar to mine <grin>. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/195 - Release Date: 12/8/2005

Hi, I know my Mathew SHANKS, a widower, and his 4 yr old son left from Belfast for Charleston, S. Carolina, USA in 1767 and received land grants upon arrival. He was destitute but both were given land, so were not indentured servants, though very poor. Mary Shanks Widener ----- Original Message ----- From: "macbd1" <macbd1@arthur.k12.il.us> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:03 PM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Re: Land ownership; indentured servant; ports of emigration; Early Scotch-Irish arrivals > Hi Linda & all, > > Not wishing to split hairs, but in your 12/7 response to Sarah you said: > "...In colonial America 90% of the population owned land..." > Linda, when you have opportunity to get settled in I suspect your books > will show the percentage of land-owners in colonial America was much less, > no more than 50-60% generally and even less in some areas heavily > populated by Scotch-Irish. This may help [Sc-Ir] researchers to understand > why they may come up empty-handed when researching land deeds in pre-RW > America. For example, my earliest proved ancestor of VA>MD>sw PA>flatboat > to Maysville, KY 1790>OH (all during 1760-1796) apparently did not own > land until 1791 in KY before he moved his family across river into > Northwest Territory in 1796. > > As a Christmas gift, especially for those who have ancestors in the > southwestern PA area during pre-1800 times, try: > "The Transformation of Western Pennsylvania, 1770-1800 by R. Eugene > Harper, University of Pittsburgh Press 1991." > This frontier area was heavily settled by Scotch-Irish, mostly from VA and > MD. This book explains the above land ownership percentage with references > to scholarly studies in other areas having similar results. "Harper shows > that the landholding yeoman farmer, long recognized in frontier > 'mythology' (my emphasis) as the backbone of early American society, > constituted only about one-third of the population of the region by the > 1790s." (from a review.) Harper uses tax records of the several counties > in sw PA for his research, describing in detail how the frontier society > so quickly developed. (Amazon.com used to have it at $20+/-, maybe less > elsewhere -- I have no financial interest.) > > As to Sarah's original question about NI emigration _of the 1700's_ (basic > pre-RW 'Scotch-Irish' definition), such researchers have little specific > interest in steamship times of the mid-1800's and later. In pre-RW times, > ships' captains and agents were scouring Ulster to recruit emigrants. Yes, > people could board rather small sailing vessels of those times at many > local ports, a few being Londonderry and Portrush along the north coast of > County Londonderry, Larne and Belfast on the east coast of Antrim, and > Newry in Armagh -- and many other minor ports as well, with Groomsport in > Down as just one example. As to land travel in NI, many people walked to a > port, sometimes alongside a cart of belongings if they were lucky, much > like was done in colonial America -- or I suspect a ship's agent sometimes > provided means. > > Expanding on the recruiting of Ulster emigrants, whether they could afford > passage mattered not; in fact, agents tried to persuade mostly the poorer > Ulstermen to leave for America as indentured servants, a very profitable > business with servants in great demand in colonial America. For benefit of > a few [Sc-Ir] listers who may not know, some scholars indicate that half > to two-thirds of 'all' European emigrants to colonial American were > indentured servants upon arrival, with 90% not being an unreasonable > estimate for the Scotch-Irish. With so many, no stigma was apparent and > even the practice of 'binding out' children seemed to be readily accepted. > Those who could afford passage were definitely in the minority. > > Further posts expanding on the above topics may be found in our list's > archives by using: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > and entering "scotch-irish-l" <--(el) without the quotes, > then entering search words found in the 'Subject' of this posting for the > years 2002 and 2003. > Searches with other words and years will bring up fascinating postings by > many. > > Oh, try entering "James PATTON" for the year 2002 to learn specifics of > this 'very' interesting pre-RW ship captain and about NI emigration in his > ships, along with info concerning American ports of entry and settlements. > > Such archival research raises the importance of listers selecting an > appropriate 'Subject' for their postings (in order to help others later.) > This is especially important for 'Digest' subscribers, where a subject > such as "Re: [Sc-Ir] Re: Scotch-Irish-D Digest V05 #211" wastes archival > space. > > Regards to all, > Neil McDonald > > > >

Hi Linda & all, Not wishing to split hairs, but in your 12/7 response to Sarah you said: "...In colonial America 90% of the population owned land..." Linda, when you have opportunity to get settled in I suspect your books will show the percentage of land-owners in colonial America was much less, no more than 50-60% generally and even less in some areas heavily populated by Scotch-Irish. This may help [Sc-Ir] researchers to understand why they may come up empty-handed when researching land deeds in pre-RW America. For example, my earliest proved ancestor of VA>MD>sw PA>flatboat to Maysville, KY 1790>OH (all during 1760-1796) apparently did not own land until 1791 in KY before he moved his family across river into Northwest Territory in 1796. As a Christmas gift, especially for those who have ancestors in the southwestern PA area during pre-1800 times, try: "The Transformation of Western Pennsylvania, 1770-1800 by R. Eugene Harper, University of Pittsburgh Press 1991." This frontier area was heavily settled by Scotch-Irish, mostly from VA and MD. This book explains the above land ownership percentage with references to scholarly studies in other areas having similar results. "Harper shows that the landholding yeoman farmer, long recognized in frontier 'mythology' (my emphasis) as the backbone of early American society, constituted only about one-third of the population of the region by the 1790s." (from a review.) Harper uses tax records of the several counties in sw PA for his research, describing in detail how the frontier society so quickly developed. (Amazon.com used to have it at $20+/-, maybe less elsewhere -- I have no financial interest.) As to Sarah's original question about NI emigration _of the 1700's_ (basic pre-RW 'Scotch-Irish' definition), such researchers have little specific interest in steamship times of the mid-1800's and later. In pre-RW times, ships' captains and agents were scouring Ulster to recruit emigrants. Yes, people could board rather small sailing vessels of those times at many local ports, a few being Londonderry and Portrush along the north coast of County Londonderry, Larne and Belfast on the east coast of Antrim, and Newry in Armagh -- and many other minor ports as well, with Groomsport in Down as just one example. As to land travel in NI, many people walked to a port, sometimes alongside a cart of belongings if they were lucky, much like was done in colonial America -- or I suspect a ship's agent sometimes provided means. Expanding on the recruiting of Ulster emigrants, whether they could afford passage mattered not; in fact, agents tried to persuade mostly the poorer Ulstermen to leave for America as indentured servants, a very profitable business with servants in great demand in colonial America. For benefit of a few [Sc-Ir] listers who may not know, some scholars indicate that half to two-thirds of 'all' European emigrants to colonial American were indentured servants upon arrival, with 90% not being an unreasonable estimate for the Scotch-Irish. With so many, no stigma was apparent and even the practice of 'binding out' children seemed to be readily accepted. Those who could afford passage were definitely in the minority. Further posts expanding on the above topics may be found in our list's archives by using: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl and entering "scotch-irish-l" <--(el) without the quotes, then entering search words found in the 'Subject' of this posting for the years 2002 and 2003. Searches with other words and years will bring up fascinating postings by many. Oh, try entering "James PATTON" for the year 2002 to learn specifics of this 'very' interesting pre-RW ship captain and about NI emigration in his ships, along with info concerning American ports of entry and settlements. Such archival research raises the importance of listers selecting an appropriate 'Subject' for their postings (in order to help others later.) This is especially important for 'Digest' subscribers, where a subject such as "Re: [Sc-Ir] Re: Scotch-Irish-D Digest V05 #211" wastes archival space. Regards to all, Neil McDonald

Hi Neil, The genealogy source I used meant that 90% of the people at some point owned or 'owned' (including squatters), land, not that 90% of the people living in a given locale at any given time owned land. That's because for someone doing genealogy what is important to recognise is the criticality of land records in colonial America. 90% of your ancestors will appear in SOME land record. Very possibly NOT the one you need them in -- if your experience is anywhere similar to mine <grin>. So the percentage of land owners is much lower than the 90% figure I mentioned because the 90% does not relate to a single moment in time in a given location, but means that there is a 90% change that your John Anderson appears in some land record, somewhere, at some time. Mine does. He buys land in Western PA. WHile he's rumored to have lived in Old Cumberland Co, there's no land records that name him there, that I've found. Of couse I've not read every deed in three or four counties.... Land records in colonial and post colonial America are not easy. One of the problems is that obtaining a grant (ie buying land from the state or colony, not an individual) was a process. Sometimes our ancestors started the process with a warrant but sold the warrant and the land. They do not appear in the grants. Or they bought the warrant. It's very confusing. Often they squatted on land for their whole lives, As one was not required to register land sales, it is possible the ancestor owned land but doesn't appear in the deedbook or any other. He will appear in the militia records and tax records. If those survive. The only way to know for sure that the ancestor didn't own land is to not find him in the tax records, but they often don't survive. And I suspect some of mine could figure out a way to evade the tax man anyway.... >example, my earliest proved ancestor of VA>MD>sw PA>flatboat to Maysville, >KY 1790>OH (all during 1760-1796) apparently did not own land until 1791 in >KY before he moved his family across river into Northwest Territory in 1796. He may not have legally owned land. Have you checked court records to see if he is named in the 1781 (I think it was) proceedings where people who could prove that they had been settled on land for a year could purchase at reduced prices? Sometimes in KY that's one way to determine if the person was there in 1780 (I think it was). Of course the person could have continued to live on the land and not purchased, but moved to either purchase better or cheaper land elsewhere. Anyway if the man appears in the Northwest Territory records (or somewhere in his life or death), then he goes into the 90% side of the pile. Ie he appears in some land records. The Harper book sou nds like a must read but again, doesn't contradict the statement that I lifted from another source. Also you can sometimes find info about a 18th century ancestor who originally settled a plot of land by searching the deedbooks WAY into the 1800s, approaching 1900. Having read about this strategy, my sister undertook it to try to identify the parents of one of our brick walls here in Western PA. Around 1880 our great great grandad registered the deed, naming everyone he ever knew who could testafy that he had received the land from his father. He named all his brothers and sisters. His father spelled his name differently and does not appear in any land records. It must have been a private sale for which the deed was never registered. Thanks for giving me the chance to clarify what the 90% figure means. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Thanks, Brian, for the excellent reading list. There are at least three books on your list (Cromie, Perceval-Maxwell, & Robinson) that I must read immediately. I'm trying to understand and trace my mother's Beattie family from the Scottish lowlands and borderlands to Ulster, probably in the early 17th century (just conjecture), thence to Newbliss in County Monaghan where I found record of them in 1830 and from where they emigrated to Quebec, Canada, in 1838, then to the United States in 1870. Were they Reivers when they were in Scotland and possibly expelled to Ulster? Gosh, I hope so because that will spice up the family history, won't it? I'm fortunate to live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA, which has both a private college (Franklin and Marshall College, what could be more American?) and a public university (Millersville University of Pennsylvania), and both of them have fine libraries. I worked in the first and my wife worked in the second, both as librarians. Now we can access their library catalogs online: ain't this technology stuff grand? Thanks for your fine booklist.

Hi folks, Here's the URL to that DNA project I mentioned: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gallgaedhil/elliott_border_reivers_dna.htm It says here: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gallgaedhil/elliott_border_reivers_dna.htm#Question5 "What happened to them and where are they now? The era of the Border Reivers ended abruptly when Elizabeth I died and James I was crowned King of England. The Elliotts had often served as mercenaries to Elizabeth, and had harried James's mother, Mary Queen of Scots, on her behalf. Consequently, they feared and resented the Stuart king. In defiance of the new regime, a large party of Elliotts, Armstrongs and Grahams rode into Cumbria, and stole 3,000 sheep. This last hurrah of mayhem took place in 1603, and has been remembered ever since as "Ill Week". Later, more than a hundred of the perpetrators were apprehended, and many were hanged. Many others fled with their families to the Ulster Plantation of Northern Ireland, where they served as a buffer between the Gaelic Irish and their English overlords. The Border Reivers thereafter became the core of that fiercely self-reliant people known to history as the Scotch-Irish." The page includes a bio of the author's grandfather, an ELLIOTT from Donegal. It's likely that border-folk descend from: --Various tribes of Picts, Scots, and Germans --Roman soldiers garrisoned at Hadrian's Wall --Asiatic horsemen settled in Lancaster by the Romans along with their horses --and the Plantagenets (marched their armies through our area to fight with the Scots)! Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi William, Both my parents have BEATTIE lines. If you check the early records of the Ulster Plantation that are in Hanna "Scotch-Irish", you will see that in the Irish plantation of Cavan, Precint of Tullaghgarvy, allocated to 'natives' -- ie Irish, 262 acres went to Henry Betagh, gentleman. The surname of Beatty is, according to some, Irish in origin. Some believe it is occupational from the Irish meaning public vitualler. It is still found in Athlone in its Irish form. Others believe it orginated in Meath. Most likely, since the Scots also spoke Erse, it originated in any number of places like other occupational surnames. So some Beatties in Ireland are Irish natives. The descendents of Henry (above) lost their land in the Cromwellian or Williamite settlement (I forget). They may well have stayed on, nearby, say, in Monaghan. Donno..... One of my lines is Scottish -- never left, and the other left Ayre, served in the Irish army in the mid 1600s, was an officer in King WIlliam's army, received a land grant in Antrim, it is believed, and definitely took to the ocean in 1729. The second wife of John was the sister of the grandfather of Dewitt Clinton. One of John's children by Christina Clinton was the future Rev Charles Clinton Beatty, the first missionary west of the Alleghenies. Uncle Charlie attended the coronation of King George in Engerland (his Clintons were English gentry who once held the earldom of Lancaster) and died in Barbados, converting the locals. I believe there is a Border clan DNA study (google) that may be the fastest way to determine the origin of your Beatties. Nonetheless as a double Beattie, I will welcome you to the clan if you will help round up the Maxwells who took our land. I need to get my dad's DNA tested. We have an occupational surname. Donno who we really 'are'!!! We lost our clan!!! We have no identity.... Probably we'll do the border DNA project as we're from Weardale, Co Durham. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi Donna, According to MacLysaght "Surnames of Ireland" Cromwell is now rare in Ireland, but it was common in Limerick for 200 years before Ollie. Wayyyyy back, Ireland consisted of the Irish, living as they always had, in the countryside, and a few cities on the coasts. Originally the cities were started by the Vikings. Later on the Normans and then the English lived in them. Along with anglicized Irish. The English going native were moving out to the countryside. Since travel inland was hazardous, travel was by sea around the coast. Though we do not have a lot of history about medieval Ireland, it appears that before the Normans and the Englishry developed enough power to command the waves, the west coast of Ireland enjoyed a robus trade with Spain and many other countries. There were many templar settlements along the western coast. And towns inhabited by English merchants, etc. So that's probably why you find Cromwell in Limerick 200 years before Ollie. Might be related to him myself -- his mother was Bourchier and apparently I have one in my past too. He was actually a moderate. The radicals were the English Presbyterians. And according to at least one study, he didn't massacre everyone in Drogheda, etc. See "A History of Medieval Ireland" by Ruthven-Otway and a book by Tom Reilly called "Cromwell" that debunks much of what we believe we know of him. Good luck! Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "D.C." <kinshipmatters@twmi.rr.com> Reply-To: <kinshipmatters@twmi.rr.com> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:17:16 -0500 >Hi Linda and everyone, > > > >My CROMWELLs living in New Brunswick before 1800 as Henry CROMWELL was born >abt. 1800 in Queens County, New Brunswick, I have his father as John >CROMWELL born abt. 1763. This information is totally unconfirmed. I don't >know where they migrated from. Anyone have any genealogical input on the >CROMWELLs migration to New Brunswick? (no negative comments here as I only >married into the CROMWELL family, and my husband is a really nice guy. >Don't know if he's related to Ollie or not.) > > > >Donna > >In a very, very cold, but sunny Michigan > > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi Linda and everyone, My CROMWELLs living in New Brunswick before 1800 as Henry CROMWELL was born abt. 1800 in Queens County, New Brunswick, I have his father as John CROMWELL born abt. 1763. This information is totally unconfirmed. I don't know where they migrated from. Anyone have any genealogical input on the CROMWELLs migration to New Brunswick? (no negative comments here as I only married into the CROMWELL family, and my husband is a really nice guy. Don't know if he's related to Ollie or not.) Donna In a very, very cold, but sunny Michigan

Heres a short list of books about Ireland etc. You will find many useful, used and reasonably cheap, books at Books Ulster http://www.booksulster.com/ as well as an on line reference library. The seasons greetings to you all. Brian A selection of books about Presbyterians and the Ulster Scots in Ireland. Many churches in Ulster have produced publications about their history. A selection is included below. Carson, John T. Presbyterian and Proud of It. Belfast: The Sabbath School Society for Ireland, 1948. Corish,Patrick J. Ed. A History of Irish Catholicism. Dublin: Gill & MacMillan, 1971. Cromie, Howard. Ulster Settlers in America. Belfast: T. H. Jordan, Ltd., 1976. Curl, James S. The Londonderry Plantation 1609-1914. Chichester Phillimore & Co., Ltd., 1986. Dickson, R. J. Ulster Emigration to Colonial America 1718-1775. Belfast: Ulster Historical Foundation, 1966. Hamilton, T. History of the Irish Presbyterian Church. Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, undated. Hamilton, Thomas. History of Presbyterianism in Ireland. Belfast: Ambassador Productions, Ltd., 1992. Herlihy, Kevin. Ed. The Religion of Irish Dissent 1650-1800. Dublin. Four Courts Press.(1996) Houston, C. J. and W. J. Smyth. Irish Emigration and Canadian Settlement. Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1991. Hume. David To right some things that we thought wrong. Belfast, Ulster Society Publications Ltd,(1998). Latimer, W. T A History of the Irish Presbyterians. Belfast: James Cleland, 1902. Larne Kirk Session. Historical Sketch of the First Presbyterian Congregation of Larne. Belfast: M'Caw, Stevenson & Orr, Ltd., 1889. Lecky, W. E H. A History of Ireland in the Eighteenth Century. London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1913. Lockington, John W. Robert Blair of Bangor. Belfast: Presbyterian Historical Society, 1996. Long, S. E. The Emergence of Presbyterianism in Post Plantation Ulster. Belfast: Education Committee, Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland, n.d. Loughridge, Adam. The Covenanters in Ireland. Belfast: Cameron Press, 1984. Maitland, W. H. History of Magherafelt. Draperstown, Moyola Books,1916, reprint 1988. McCartney, D. J. Nor Principalities Nor Powers, The First Presbyterian Church, Carrickfergus (1621-1991). Belfast: McCartney, 1991. Moore, Tom. A History of the First Presbyterian Church Belfast 1644-1983. Belfast: The Kirk Session, 1983. Morley, Henry Ed. Ireland under Elizabeth and James the First. London: George Routledge & Sons, Ltd.,(1890). Orr, B. J. As God is my Witness, Heritage Books, 2002 Orr, B. J. A Layman`s Guide to the Scottish Reformation, Heritage Books,2005. Perceval-Maxwell, M. The Scottish Migration to Ulster in the Reign of James I. London: Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1973. Reilly, Tom. Oliver Cromwell, An Honourable Enemey. Ireland: Brandon, 1999. Robinson, Philip. The Plantation of Ulster. Belfast: Ulster Historical Foundation, 1984. Stevenson, John. Two Centuries of Life in Down 1600-1800. Belfast: McCaw, Stevenson & Orr, Ltd., 1920. MacCuarta, Brian Ed. Ulster 1641, Aspects of the Rising, Belfast: Queens University Institute of Irish Studies, 1993. Wilson, William. 1623-1973, 350th Anniversary of First Bangor Presbyterian Church. Bangor: Kirk Session, 1973. Young R Ed Old Belfast.Belfast., Marcus Ward & Co., 1896.