Hi folks, DNA a great new tool for family research. Google: "Genetic Genealogy" use the quotes. One source listed on that page is: _http://www.kerchner.com/dna-info.htm_ (http://www.kerchner.com/dna-info.htm) It has all the basics. go to the bottom of the page to the little blue box and hit: Find Your Surname. This is one of several such GG lists. Enjoy, or not. Kindly Lloyd

Hi folks, Sorry for the silence that half of you love. I am busy recovering a large file that corrupted. Meanwhile is anyone researching a William SHAW who left Killyleagh, Co Down and settled in Guilford, SC in the mid 1700s? HE was a revolutionary war soldier. He appears in the index to the SC DAR collection on fiche in LDS. He names his origin in his pension records. One SHAW family in Ulster arrived in 1606 with the Montgomeries, who 'planted' it. They descend from a younger son of a titled family in Scotland. This info is in Hanna "The Scotch Irish". They are also related to a prominant ANtrim family who built a castle, now apparently a hotel. SOmeone has contacted me privately about this man WIlliam who settled in South Carolina. Thanks, Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Neil, There are two important outside factors to consider for the decreasing land ownership in SW PA in the late eighteenth century. The first is that, up until Anthony Wayne's defeat of the Indians at Fallen Timbers in August 1794, that particular stretch of the frontier was subject to frequent Indian attacks. These things tended to come in waves, with a high number of attacks in some years and none in others. For example, there were especially heavy attacks in 1763 (Pontiac Rebellion), during the American Revolution (British-sponsored), and after 1790 and 1791 (Harmar's and St. Clair's defeats), just to name a couple off the top of my head. The upshot of these attacks was that people often simply abandoned their land claims and moved back over the Allegheny Mountains to the east. The second factor is how land distribution was handled at the close of the American Revolution in 1783. I'll warn you in advance that after years of looking at this I still don't have a complete grasp of the system, but essentially land north and west of the Allegheny and Ohio Rivers in western PA was given to veterans in lieu of cash for their service in the Revolution. These were called Donation Lands. Then there were the Depreciation Lands, which were also given to veterans, except that they were issued because the Continental script that the soldiers had originally been paid with was nearly valueless - "depreciated." Without getting into the confusing details, the bottom line is that hundreds of thousands of acres went to soldiers from the Revolution, many of whom had no intention whatsoever of claiming them. As a result, land speculators, such as the famous Revolutionary War financier Robert Morris (founder of the first National Bank), bought up huge tracts of Donation and Depreciation Land certificates. For example, John Nicholson, the state's comptroller general, owned 3.7 million acres in western and northern Pennsylvania by 1787. These speculators mostly lived in the east around Philadelphia and New York and so became absentee landowners. Our Scotch-Irish ancestors, along with some Germans and a few immigrants of various and sundry other nationalities, took this absenteeism as an open invitation to settle perfectly good land that, as far as they were concerned, was just lying there for the taking. Interestingly (and again, I can't quote all of the details off the top of my head), the courts eventually recognized - at least in some cases - the claims of these squatters and their plow and blood equity in the land over those of the land speculators. It was, after all, it was the settlers farming the land and giving up their scalps to the Indians, not the rich guys in Philadelphia. This action would cover the period that you seem to be most interested in, roughly the late 1780s and the 1790s. I would suggest that Donation/Depreciation Land transfers were a large factor in the apparent decrease in landownership that you note below. Ownership on paper was being centralized elsewhere, but our ancestors were doing the plowing and the birthing, and the living and the dying. BTW, the irony is that many of the land speculators lost everything, while many of our ancestors thrived (again, due largely to the position taken by the courts). Robert Morris, once one of the richest men in America, died penniless due to his losses in land speculation. Rob -----Original Message----- From: macbd1 [mailto:macbd1@arthur.k12.il.us] Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 6:39 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Re: Land ownership; indentured servant; ports of emigration; Early Scotch-Irish arrivals Ok Linda, thanks for the clarification, where the original statement seemed to mislead researchers (to me.) Even so, I don't understand how 'they' (source?) could have calculated the 90% chance of finding land ownership records sometime during the lifetime of any given ancestor. This still seems very high to me, in light of the work by Harper and others. In sw PA, for example, the % of landowning tax payers was 'decreasing' during the 1780-1800 period. By 1796 the landowning yeoman farmer group was near 30% of taxable population (but who owned 2/3 of the land) with the largest group being landless 'dependents,' at 43% of the population. These 'dependents' consisted of general laborers, farm laborers and tenant farmers with the remainder being the feeble, the poor and otherwise unemployables. With this arrangement of land ownership, or lack of it, being typical...well, someone else can do the math but it seems that 100% of this 'dependent' group would have had to purchase land previously or later, somewhere, in order for 90% of this total multi-county population to be classified as landowners by end of the population lifetime (highly unlikely to me.)

Hello Charles Thank You for the information. I thought the mention of the female masterdons holding their babies up was so sad. Now if dinosaurs died out in the Cretaceous c 65million years ago.... The footprints at Glen Rose were mistakely thought to be those of humans. The 16 inch footprints were misidentified in the 1930's Alot of work has been done since and I think the earliest pre-hominid ones are from ones identified by Mary leakey 3.5 million years ago at Laetolil, 25 miles southwest of Olduvai Gorge in Tanzania. I also think the earliest 'primitive' human prints are from c350,000 years ago (according to New Scientist 2004) found in remains of volcanic ash in Italy. Anyway less of this as I'm off list sujbect here Thank you again Gill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles A Wyly" <wyly1@juno.com> To: <gilliandavies@lineone.net> Cc: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Ludie question about Limestone > Hi, > Yes, Texas is infested with limestone layers and bluff and caves. Also > some Marble and Granite from Marble Falls area. Right now the one of > current interest is a mile deep layer of Flint shale, and under it there > is an unknown quantity of natural gas. At present time< wells are being > drilled in Fort Worth City limits to Clebiurne and Stephenville to > connect to Springtown area of Denton and Wise Counties , which is > supplying most states due north of Texas to Canada with natural gas. > Dozens of Windmills for High Voltage Electricity are in use in West Texas > and more lease is paid the landowner for a windmill site than for oil > or gas wells. > > Baylor University in Waco has found a herd of mastodon skeletons in > limestone , apparent a herd , with females holding babies up to air as > they were covered in mud and water, it will soon be a national Park. On > Paluxy and Bosque River and Duffau Creek, above the Brazos are many > tracks or trails of Dinosaurs, and some bones, covered by pother layers > of limestone. In oinme track is a man's footprint, at Glen Rose, in a > limestone Dinosaur Track. Now I thought Evolutionists say that Dinosaurs > and men did not live at the same time. Where did this tract come from > See more on a Go ogle search for Creation Science Museum, near State > Park. > > Charles > > On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 07:21:53 -0000 "Gill Smith" > <gilliandavies@lineone.net> writes: >> Hello Ludie - 'tis me again >> >> In reply to your question about limestone >> >> Limestone rocks are sedimentary( pieces of the earth worn away and >> deposited on top of each other to form layers- they eventually form >> rocks) rocks that are made from the mineral calcite which came from >> the beds of evaporated seas , rivers and lakes and from sea animal >> shells. This rock is used in concrete production and is an excellent >> building stone for humid regions. >> >> Limestone is used in architectural construction, but apparently not >> good for tall buildings because of the cost?. >> >> Alot of buildings in London are built from Portland Limestone >> >> It doesn't stand up well to acid rain >> >> The Vale of Clwyd - here in Wales has alot of limestone - it is a >> glacial valley and you can see lots of little and quite large >> fossils of marine creatures in the stone. >> I wonder what our ancestors made of the shapes in the limestone. >> Some limestone with fossils is used in pre-historic burials as it >> probaly had a 'magic' attached to it >> >> The Burren in Co Clare, Ireland is one of the most famous, composed >> of karstic limestone - bhoireann stoney place - it has a wealth of >> archaeology, flora on it's (approx) 300 sq. kilometres and is an >> archaeologist, botanists and ecologists dream. >> >> Texas it seems is richly endowed with centuries old limestone >> buildings but I don't know anything about these! >> >> Hope this helps as my geology is a bit rusty >> >> Gill in a warmer Wales >> >> >> >> >

No idea. I know a wee bit about this side of the pond. Nothing about the other side Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Charles A Wyly [mailto:wyly1@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 9:56 PM To: edward.andrews@btinternet.com Cc: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing Hi, Who were the Kennedys of Ireland who controlled ships , some with slaves from Africa to New Orleans?- 17---1800's. Was this the same as the Pres. Kennedy's ancestors? And, according to New Orleans records, the slave auction block in New Orleans was a giant free Black man named King. Hill College Historians in Hillsboro , Texas say that Martin Luther King was a descendant of this King in New Orleans. Charles A.Wyly On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 22:25:44 -0000 "Edward Andrews" <edward.andrews@btinternet.com> writes: > It is very important that we remember that the vast majority of the > Scottish > settlers were lowlanders. (This is not to say that there were no > highlanders, just that the majority were from the lowlands and the > Borders > and they would have come from the South Clyde or the Solway. > Campbeltown is a bit of a red herring as it is Highland with > Lowland > settlers.(Historically there were two Church of Scotland Churches > in > Campbeltown, Highland and Lowland. (a bit like Ulster). > Always remember it is easier to sail than walk. I'm going to > Ireland later > next week and if I could I'd take a ferry from Troon rather than > drive the > A77 to Stranrear. > The whole Ards Peninsula is thick with wee harbours, and there were > a lot > of wee ships owned down there. Remember that in almost living > memory > schooners traded between large parts of the County Down coast and > Belfast as > the Railway only went to Donaghadee in the Ards, and then to > Downpatrick and > Newcastle (the junction was Newtownards). Antrim as much more > limited by the > Plateau edge. I don't know about the ports of county /Derry. Once > you get > round to Donegal and points west and south again there are lots of > wee ports > and that was where the labourers came from. > As I said before the whole coastal trade is a very specialised area > of > History. I know a wee bit about late 19th Century and then 20th > Century > which was really the =demise of Sail and the heyday of steam. In the > 1940s > it was puffers which took the Limestone from Antrim. By the 1960s it > was > Dutch - the Hans traded out of Carnlough. > Edward Andrews > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gill Smith [mailto:gilliandavies@lineone.net] > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:59 PM > To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Fw: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gill Smith" <gilliandavies@lineone.net> > To: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > > > Hi it's Gill again > > Obviously I didn't have the thread of your original question > > Kirk is a fairly popular name in Dumfrieshire and Galloway > ,Ayrshire and > Renfrewshire > > There was alot of movement between the southern areas of Scotland > and > Dumfries and Galloway around the sixteenth century onwards because > of the > political situation between England (and Wales) and Scotland and > then the > Plantation of Ulster > > You probably know all this > > When Henry V111 defeated James 1V at Flodden the situation was > unsettled > After James V's defeat at Hadden Rig, Berwickshire the following > 'rough > wooing' drove alot of people out of southern Scotland. and some > went to > Ireland > > Following this James V1( 1 st of England) merged the two crowns > placing > further religious and political pressures on the population of > southern > Scotland - this in turn led to further movement to Ireland by > southern > Scots > > The settlement of Ireland increased with the land - letting on > their > estayes > by Sir James Hamilton and Hugh Montgomery immediately prior to the > Ulster > Plantation. Many of the Planters were from Ayrshire, > Wigton,Dumfrieshire > and > Kirkcudbrighshire. > > Many settled the 'lower' half of Antrim. There had been Scottish > influence > there further north back in the 1500's. This pattern fits the > 'Protestant > route ' > > It's possible that your ancestors (if originating in Scotland) > sailed from > Portpatrick (the main port in mid C17) which was later linked to > Dumfries > by > a military road improving the communication network. across the > land. > The military road network improved cross country access after c > 1724 > > Port Patrick was a very important port during the Ulster > Plantations, > developing throughout the C18 as the main port for Scottish - Irish > trade > in > livestock which was then walked over land to the markets at > Dumfries and > further afield. > > Historically there was rivalry between Larne and Donsghdee which > had strong > shipping links with Portpatrick back in the early 1600's. The > first > documented mention is c 1616 > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~leighann/county/travel.html > > gives a bit about "Ower the Sheuch" Travel between Scotland and > Ireland on > the Wigtownshire Pages and is worth a look. > > The Stewartry Museum in Kircudbrighshire would also help > > Depending on when they moved to Ireland- > There's no particular reason why the would sail from the > Campbeltown area > with a busy, main port at Portpatrick > > I'm interested in the subject as some of my ancestors were Master > > Mariners > who lived in and sailed out of Kirkcudbrigh. I also have Irish > ancestry > North and South I lived a long time in Scotland and know all the > areas > mentioned well. > > From the 1400s Kircudbrighshire was important for overseas trade > . > Over a quarter of Scotland's cloth exports were loaded at the > quays on the > River Dee and traded over great distances. The harbour developing > later > > Carsethorn (near Kirkbean), Dumfries was first mentioned as a port > in 1562. > There was heavy trade from here to England, abroad and to Ireland - > it's a > possibiltiy that they sailed from here (as did John Paul Jones in > 1760) if > they were from the area around Dumfries.. > > Hope this helps a bit more on the where they might have sailed from > > Scotland theme > > Gill in North Wales (with views of Ireland on a good day) > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> > To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > > > > > >> Yes, thank you, Edward. You've given me a lot of good > information that > >> answers many of my questions and gives me more. Assuming my > Kirks came > >> from Scotland at some time to County Antrim, the question this is > where > >> did they come from and how did they get there. I can see by the > map > >> there's not much on the peninsula in the Mull of Kintyre region, > maybe > >> it's very rocky and not a good farming area. So in the 1600-1700s > would > >> the travelers between Antrim and Scotland mostly have taken one > of the > >> major routes and then traveled overland to their destination. > Like you > >> said, areas of Scotland weren't/aren't easy to travel overland. > >> > >> I've been to the Antrim coast. Those cliffs are high enough for > me. > >> Unless it was densely forested, it seems like travel in Antrim > would > >> have been easier to travel around. > >> > >> My Kirks were Protestant, so that doesn't fit with the Catholic > movement > >> between the two countries. > >> > >> It is all very interesting. For instance with the iron ore I > wonder if > >> the soil in certain areas is as red as the areas of eastern Texas > that > >> have high iron ore content. Which east Texas has a high > Scotch-Irish > >> settlement though many descendants today don't know. > >> > >> Thanks again, Edward. Ludie > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Edward Andrews > >> To: 'Loudene Tollar' ; Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com > >> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:50 AM > >> Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > >> > >> > >> You are not quite clear about what you are asking, so I will give > a > >> slightly long winded answer. > >> Historically, despite its dangers - strong currents and being > open to the > >> Atlantic the North Channel has always been a very important > highway > >> between > >> Scotland and Ireland. > >> These currents and tide rips are important in that they did have > effects > >> on > >> where ships could easily land > >> For practical purposes we can divide the coast of Ulster up it up > into > >> several areas. From Malin Head to Fair Head, From Fair Head to > Black > >> Head, > >> from Black Head to Ballyquinten Point, and from Ballyquinten > Point south, > >> (including Strangford Lough). > >> While the Ulster coast can be neatly divided up the Scottish > Coast is > >> more > >> difficult. There is the area to the north of the Mull of Kintyre, > From > >> the > >> Mull of Kintyre to Carsewell Point and from Carsewell point > south. > >> On the Ulster side there is limited fishing, but this has > traditionally > >> been at its most productive in County Down. > >> The Antrim coast is backed by a raised beach (I think it is the > 10M one) > >> which is broken by short rivers which flow down from the Antrim > Plateau. > >> The > >> Plateau, while it is not very high is fronted on the sea side by > cliffs > >> which are only penetrated by the River Valleys. > >> The two main roads which serve the coast run from Ballymena to > >> Glenariff/Cushendall, and to Carnlough/Glenarm. Cushendun is a > river > >> mouth, > >> which only provides shelter for a few small boats > >> The whole North Antrim area has very strong cultural links with > the > >> Scottish coast. These links are Gaelic rather than plantation, > and the > >> Glens > >> (the nine Glens of Antrim) are distinct from the rest of Antrim > in that > >> there is a much higher proportion of Roman Catholics there than > in the > >> rest > >> of Antrim. They are very different indeed from the Lowland Scots > of the > >> plantation of Antrim. Gaelic was spoken until the early 20th > Century. > >> While I have chosen Fair Head as one of the arbitrary divisions > of the > >> coast, culturally Ballycastle is part of this community. It is > the home > >> town > >> of Keith Cardinal O'Brian the Archbishop of Edinburgh and head of > the > >> Roman > >> Catholic Church in Scotland. > >> When I worked in Islay not only could you see the Antrim Coast, > people > >> went > >> over for the Lammas Fair in Ballycastle. There has historically > always > >> been > >> coming and going across the Ditch. > >> However, transport is a function of the economy, and both > Campbeltown and > >> the Glens were primary producers. Ballycastle had a small coal > mine, > >> which > >> only met local demand. (eighteenth century attempts at > encouraging > >> industry > >> were not particularly successful and the harbour silted up and is > now the > >> town tennis court). Carnlough was important for its export of > Limestone > >> as > >> was Glenarm. There was also Iron ore, as well as bauxite on the > plateau. > >> However this was generally exploited by narrow gage railway to > Ballymena > >> and > >> then to Larne, it was not important for the Antrim Coast. There > is a > >> picture > >> in the Lawrence Collection of an iron ore jetty near Fair Head. > >> Campbeltown is a plantation town founded by James VI to bring > the > >> advantages of civilization to the Highlands. We believe that my > ancestors > >> went there from Maybole there in the 17th Century, before going > to > >> Ulster. > >> However until well into the 20th Century when there were road > >> improvements > >> the whole of the Kintyre area was only served by sea. The > development of > >> car > >> ferries in Scotland rather than passenger ferries meant that > there was a > >> demand for a car ferry to Ireland. > >> It was only in the late 1960s / early 1970s that this ferry > service was > >> set up between Campbeltown and Red Bay by Western Ferries. While > this was > >> commercially a success, because of the security situation it was > not > >> possible to continue it. > >> Western Ferries also had a Catamaran running on the Scotland (I > can't > >> remember where,) Portrush / Moville route > >> In the 1990s a ferry was set up between Campbeltown and > Ballycastle. > >> However rather than being run by Cal-Mac the state run coastal > shipping > >> line > >> (who run the Ballycastle / Rathlin service, it was run by a > private > >> company > >> to whom Cal-mac had to sell a ship. This was a great rip-off and > the > >> service > >> only and fro a few years. There are continued attempts to get a > ferry > >> running. However while the routes to Stranrear (and the south > shore of > >> the > >> Clyde Estuary are extremely busy, Campbeltown is 140 miles from > Glasgow > >> over > >> roads which are at times indifferent. > >> In brief, historically there were ad hoc travel arrangements > between the > >> Antrim Coast and Scotland. These did not long last the > introduction of > >> Steam > >> which tended to concentrate shipping in the larger ports. > Attempts in the > >> past 30 years to run a service have failed for one reason or > another. > >> Edward Andrews > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Loudene Tollar [mailto:ludiekt@juno.com] > >> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:16 AM > >> To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing > >> > >> Edward, I'm curious about the crossing between the area of > Cushendun on > >> the > >> Irish coast and the peninsula of Campbelltown on Scotland's side. > As > >> that > >> is such a short distance has it been used much for crossing in > years past > > >> or > >> > >> is there a reason it wouldn't be? > >> > >> Ludie, freezing in Texas! > >> > > > > > > >

Hello, My. Wyly Thank you for your response. I am familiar with the Alexander Cleveland / Col. Peter Presley family in Colonial Virginia.You must be very proud to claim that distinctive family as your own! I'm also familiar with the family outline which shows how Elvis Presley and Oprah Winfrey are related. I'm very familiar with the family chart that shows how Jimmy Carter and Elvis Presley are related ( a completely separate way from the Oprah path.) Organizations like Rootsweb have dispersed these interesting family alliances on many of their sites. There are a number of us who have spent considerable time (years) in court houses, archives, in old folks' living rooms and at microfilm readers looking for the documentation that would make either of these possibilities factual. Some of us are hoping to find our connection to Elvis; some of us are just trying to find our ancestors. Whatever the desired goal, the reality would seem that there is no documentation of which I am aware to link Elvis Presley to any family further back than Dunnan Presley, who appears on the 1820 and 1830 Buncombe County, NC census. There was recently a media stir caused by a fellow who writes books about entertainment people as a means of making a living. He claimed to have proof irrefutable that Elvis' ancestors hailed from a tiny little burgh in Aberdeenshire, Scotland called Lonmay. He has not yet produced that proof. In fact, he simply repeats the speculation and suggestive reasoning that many others before him have pondered for years. That speculation is that a fellow named Andrew Pressley in Lonmay might be the same Andrew Pressley who appears in Anson County, North Carolina with something near the same birth year. There are a couple of Andrew Pressleys in and around Colonial North Carolina and there are a couple of Andrew Pressleys in and around Aberdeenshire, in the same time period. There is no documentation that this is anything other than coincidence and a demonstration of the popularity of the forename of Andrew. One of those Andrew Presleys is living near Dunnan Presley in Buncombe County in 1830. There is no evidence that he is was born in Scotland. The people of Lonmay, Scotland now have only memories of their former anonymity with which to console themselves. I hope I haven't discouraged you from looking for your Elvis connection. I feel that it's so important for people to do the research themselves. Where famous people are involved there are some people who simply cannot resist the temptation to turn suggestion into fact. The Internet makes it very easy. Many people have contacted me over the years to describe for me how they are related to Elvis. If it is so, and someone has proved it in the past, then anyone should be able to duplicate that path and trace any ancestor back through time using the same information. The people who try with an open mind and a blank slate get stopped at the same place - Dunnan Presley. There are plenty of living, breathing blood-relative cousins to Elvis out there. Even they have no idea where their family originated. (By the way, the Presley Y-DNA Project recently welcomed a Pressly family participant from Aberdeenshire, Scotland.) Thank you, Mr. Wyly. I appreciate your offer to share your information. Are your Wylys connected in any way with the Wylys who were associated with the David Pressley family in early Abbeville District, SC (emigrant from Glasgow, Scotland 1767)? Kind regards, Nancy Pressley The Presley-Pressley Family History Site http://presley-pressley.com The PRESLEY Y-DNA Project http://www.familytreedna.com/public/presley%2Dpressley/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles A Wyly" <wyly1@juno.com> To: <ncpressley@mindspring.com> Cc: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] PRESLEY - PRESSLEY Y-DNA PROJECT > Elvis Pressley, Opra Winfrey and many Wylys are descended from > P{irscilla Pressley then Mildred Pressley of Virginia who married > Alexander Cleveland, , whoi lived 1670- - 1770. in Virginia Can send you > a printout if interested. > > Charles Wyly > > > On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 18:55:33 -0500 "Nancy Pressley" > <ncpressley@mindspring.com> writes: >> Hello, researchers >> >> The Presley - Pressley Y-DNA Project, hosted by Family Tree DNA, >> now has 34 >> participants. We welcome any male member of any PRESSLEY family >> even if >> your name is spelled some way other than Pressley, including >> Presley, >> Pressly, >> Preslar, Pursley, Prestley, Presleigh, Presnell, etc. Our project >> goal is >> at least 100 participants. Our project was started in June of 2005 >> and has >> yielded information identifying five distinct family groups to >> date. >> >> By contributing to our Y-DNA Project you may learn to which >> ancestral line >> your Pressley ancestors belong and you will surely make new friends >> and find >> new cousins! >> >> The Presley Y-DNA Project website is located here. Scroll to the >> bottom of >> the page to see the DNA marker results. >> http://www.familytreedna.com/public/presley%2Dpressley/ >> >> The Presley-Pressley Family History Site is located here. This is >> the most >> comprehensive >> place on the web to find all kinds of data relating to the Presley >> (etc.) >> families: >> http://presley-pressley.com >> >> Our Presley-Pressley Internet research list, with over 425 >> subscribers >> is located here: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/presley-pressley >> >> The administrator for the Presley Y-DNA Project is Nancy Pressley. >> Please >> reach me here: >> ncpressley@midspring.com >> >> We welcome ALL Presley-Pressley family members, male or female, to >> join in >> our efforts to identify our ancestors and learn about their lives. >> We look >> forwarding to hearing from you. >> >> Thank you, >> Nancy Pressley >> >> >>

Hello All, www.ysearch.org/ is a general DNA testing company. Whether you believe in it or not the site is worth looking at as you can look at the data on file by name or place. There were some surnames in England before the Norman invasion in 1066. Anglo-Saxon words like yonge (Young) were becoming surnames by the 8th century. Rob Doragh Liverpool UK

I have updated the births on the Banbridge section of my website, the website search engine will not pick up the new material till Monday, but you can browse through the names just now,the new names begin with S, that is the start of the husbands name, also given is the childs name and the mothers maiden name, and the best of luck in your research. Raymond http://www.raymondscountydownwebsite.com

Sorry. I'm new to this activity and didn't know how to send this info. ----- Original Message ----- From: <dnaelder@earthlink.net> To: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 3:35 PM Subject: Re: DNA Projects > There is a dna project involving those with connections to the Elder > surname. It can be found at www.FamilyTrail.com/elder/dna.html. > > Al Elder > dnaelder@earthlink.net >

Hi Linda Merle, Am interested in your Kelly line. Where were they located... Were any in GA ?? I have an Martha Kelly, 1/2 indian who was b. Aug. 2, 1818......The father, ?? Kelly was supposed to be an Indian Agent who lived and worked in that area. Ala. and Ga. when was Indian Territory.... This is Creek Indian area. ... Can't find an ID for him. Any of your Kelly family fit this man??? Thanks, Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: <Scotch-Irish-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 12:58 PM Subject: Scotch-Irish-D Digest V05 #223 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/05

Hello, researchers The Presley - Pressley Y-DNA Project, hosted by Family Tree DNA, now has 34 participants. We welcome any male member of any PRESSLEY family even if your name is spelled some way other than Pressley, including Presley, Pressly, Preslar, Pursley, Prestley, Presleigh, Presnell, etc. Our project goal is at least 100 participants. Our project was started in June of 2005 and has yielded information identifying five distinct family groups to date. By contributing to our Y-DNA Project you may learn to which ancestral line your Pressley ancestors belong and you will surely make new friends and find new cousins! The Presley Y-DNA Project website is located here. Scroll to the bottom of the page to see the DNA marker results. http://www.familytreedna.com/public/presley%2Dpressley/ The Presley-Pressley Family History Site is located here. This is the most comprehensive place on the web to find all kinds of data relating to the Presley (etc.) families: http://presley-pressley.com Our Presley-Pressley Internet research list, with over 425 subscribers is located here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/presley-pressley The administrator for the Presley Y-DNA Project is Nancy Pressley. Please reach me here: ncpressley@midspring.com We welcome ALL Presley-Pressley family members, male or female, to join in our efforts to identify our ancestors and learn about their lives. We look forwarding to hearing from you. Thank you, Nancy Pressley

Thanks very much for the photo. It graphically illustrates the short distance. My ggg grandfather James Whiteford was born in Ireland (according to the 1841 and 1851 Scottish Census) on 3 May 1826 and christened in Campbeltown, Kintrye Scotland on 11 May 1826. He lived in Campbeltown until he migrated to Melbourne in 1852. I'd love to know where he came from in Ireland but that may remain one of my family history mysteries. I understood from listers to the Argyll board that there was regular travel between Kintyre and Ireland, especially from Antrim. But the photo really show how this was possible in a way that explanations don't. Thanks Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Thompson" <wmthompson@btinternet.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel Crossing > To pick up on Edward's point, the sea crossing is very short. I live near > one of the wee harbours he refers to, and I know local people who jetski > across to Scotland. A local guy has a RIB boat and he can get from > Ballywalter harbour in Ulster to Portpatrick harbour in Scotland in 25 > minutes! (lots of fuel and horse power!) > > If you have a look at this link you can see a photo I took up near Torr > Head in County Antrim this summer. The Mull of Kintyre is amazingly close. > > http://www.lowcountryboys.com/hismap6.html > > > Regards, > Mark >

ooops I keep getting it wrong sorry Think I'll keep quiet now! Gill --- Original Message ----- From: "Loudene Tollar" <ludiekt@juno.com> To: "Gill Smith" <gilliandavies@lineone.net>; <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Ludie question about Limestone > Thank you, Gill > > Actually I know what limestone is. It was just the way Edward used the > term with the puffers that threw me. Limestone has been used in building > for many years in Texas. The San Jacinto Monument is built of Texas > limestone. It was popular in earlier years in central Texas because of > being so readily available. Recently it has had a resurgence of > popularity to the point of being artifically manufactured. Ludie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gill Smith > To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 1:21 AM > Subject: [Sc-Ir] Ludie question about Limestone > > > Hello Ludie - 'tis me again > > In reply to your question about limestone > > Limestone rocks are sedimentary( pieces of the earth worn away and > deposited on top of each other to form layers- they eventually form rocks) > rocks that are made from the mineral calcite which came from the beds of > evaporated seas , rivers and lakes and from sea animal shells. This rock > is used in concrete production and is an excellent building stone for > humid regions. > > Limestone is used in architectural construction, but apparently not good > for tall buildings because of the cost?. > > Alot of buildings in London are built from Portland Limestone > > It doesn't stand up well to acid rain > > The Vale of Clwyd - here in Wales has alot of limestone - it is a glacial > valley and you can see lots of little and quite large fossils of marine > creatures in the stone. > I wonder what our ancestors made of the shapes in the limestone. Some > limestone with fossils is used in pre-historic burials as it probaly had a > 'magic' attached to it > > The Burren in Co Clare, Ireland is one of the most famous, composed of > karstic limestone - bhoireann stoney place - it has a wealth of > archaeology, flora on it's (approx) 300 sq. kilometres and is an > archaeologist, botanists and ecologists dream. > > Texas it seems is richly endowed with centuries old limestone buildings > but I don't know anything about these! > > Hope this helps as my geology is a bit rusty > > Gill in a warmer Wales >

Ok Linda, thanks for the clarification, where the original statement seemed to mislead researchers (to me.) Even so, I don't understand how 'they' (source?) could have calculated the 90% chance of finding land ownership records sometime during the lifetime of any given ancestor. This still seems very high to me, in light of the work by Harper and others. In sw PA, for example, the % of landowning tax payers was 'decreasing' during the 1780-1800 period. By 1796 the landowning yeoman farmer group was near 30% of taxable population (but who owned 2/3 of the land) with the largest group being landless 'dependents,' at 43% of the population. These 'dependents' consisted of general laborers, farm laborers and tenant farmers with the remainder being the feeble, the poor and otherwise unemployables. With this arrangement of land ownership, or lack of it, being typical...well, someone else can do the math but it seems that 100% of this 'dependent' group would have had to purchase land previously or later, somewhere, in order for 90% of this total multi-county population to be classified as landowners by end of the population lifetime (highly unlikely to me.) Oh well, this isn't math class and the important thing is for listers to continue searching land deeds and tax lists in spite of their likelihood of success. Military records have provided the most interesting ancestral info for me, with courthouse records being important as well -- yes, follow these for later years as well, as for example, the widow (2nd wife) of my ancestor provided many interesting bits of info concerning probate and pension application matters. As to my ancestor in KY, he only arrived in Mason Co. KY in the autumn of 1790 and first appeared on tax lists for 1791. Firstly, there was a taxable horse and cow, then more animals and finally 50 acres taxable in 1795 (yeau, I know that's not proof of land ownership but for a 4-year period of his life that's ok with me.) He and his family then disappear from KY and show up across the river in Ohio Territory where his land deed for 100+ acres is found (before that state was formed.) Finding ancestors in early tax records is definitely good, but 'not' finding them 'usually' meant they weren't there from my experiences (with few exceptions.) At least for the tax records I have studied, the tax laws and assessor were very good about trying to include as many of the population as possible. If ancestors were listed, the record would sometimes show the number of horses, cattle and sheep, and farm acreage (maybe the amount cleared.) When such detail was not shown, the amount of tax to be paid usually revealed (from the approximate tax rate) whether land ownership was included and the approximate acreage. Many other details were included in sw PA such as the head tax on 'Single Freemen,' info about absentee owners, rental agreements, etc. etc. It was interesting to learn several years ago about 'the sytem' developed between landowning farmers and the 'dependents' group. Of course there were some straightforward sharecropping agreements but otherwise the system of accounting for 'wages' and bartering was sometimes rather complex, with accounts kept in terms of English pounds, shillings and pence, like for taxes, but there was no currency in kind for payment except equivalent cut pieces of Spanish coins. A rather elaborate barter arrangement therefore translated the value of various commodities for various types of work or jobs or 'cut' of the harvest. Large landowners also sometimes allowed relatives and friends to live on their land in return for clearing it and making improvements, as the grandson of my previously described ancestor allowed in Indiana after returning from the California goldfields in 1853. (Yeau, my ancestors were there, too, Clifton even took his wife & kids along.) Best wishes, Neil McDonald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Re: Land ownership; indentured servant; ports of emigration; Early Scotch-Irish arrivals > Hi Neil, > > The genealogy source I used meant that 90% of > the people at some point owned or 'owned' (including squatters), > land, not that 90% of the people living in a given locale > at any given time owned land..........

Please forgive me for bothering you.... it won't happen again. I answered by the "reply to" button which came up with your address and was only trying to help, not insult you by suggesting you google to a DNA project that includes a list of Ireland participants. Perhaps you might change to a default to the List? Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 2:54 PM Subject: [Sc-Ir] SI DNA PRojects > Hi People, > > Please do not privately email me DNA project links or advise me to google for them. If you know of one, post it to the list. > Then it'll be in the archives for others to find. I do not > have time to forward private email to the list or to google for > these projects. If you wish to help others, please post them to the list. Trying to get good info into the archives here, not increase my personal email. Thanks again!! > > Linda Merle > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net > > > > > >

Sorry, I forgot to send the link: http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=P87318&special=true Linda A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda A" <blwkk2@comcast.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] DNA Projects >I started a dna project for the HAIRE/HAIR/HARE/HAYER and other spellings >surnames. But, I'm afraid, I have no idea how to do the webpage that was >given to me when I started the project. We have had 7 participants so far >and would welcome more. > Linda A > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> > To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 1:50 PM > Subject: [Sc-Ir] DNA Projects > > >> Thanks to all who have told us of DNA projects. Please, anyone aware of >> any others, let us know!! >> >> I got a gggrannie surnamed ERVIN (200 spelling variants) >> born in Fence Houses, Durham, England around 1830. Alas, >> no Y chromosomes to test to find her roots. I haven't been >> able to find a baptism. Still are some adjacent parishes >> up thar that aren't filmed that must check in Durham next >> time I am back. >> >> Linda Merle >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________ >> Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net >> >> >> >> >> >

Hi, http://www.mtdna.com is the one we use. three different surname groups I'm part of.. Gilpin Beatty and Hurst are all tested there. rootsweb.com has a good mailin list opn the subject too. Nelda Nelda's websites - Please visit http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member

I started a dna project for the HAIRE/HAIR/HARE/HAYER and other spellings surnames. But, I'm afraid, I have no idea how to do the webpage that was given to me when I started the project. We have had 7 participants so far and would welcome more. Linda A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 1:50 PM Subject: [Sc-Ir] DNA Projects > Thanks to all who have told us of DNA projects. Please, anyone aware of > any others, let us know!! > > I got a gggrannie surnamed ERVIN (200 spelling variants) > born in Fence Houses, Durham, England around 1830. Alas, > no Y chromosomes to test to find her roots. I haven't been > able to find a baptism. Still are some adjacent parishes > up thar that aren't filmed that must check in Durham next > time I am back. > > Linda Merle > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net > > > > >

While historically Curraghs have been used on the Irish Sea, for some reason they went out of use a long time ago. I've never seen anything except a "Wooden" boat in Northern Ireland Waters, though there are some Curraghs in Donegal. (By Wooden I also count fibreglass and metal.) Neither have I historically ever seen a picture of anything except a wooden boat. It may well be that this is a relic of the Norsemen. Presumably the skin and thin wood frame is a function of technology and availability of materials. Certainly a wooden boat is much longer lasting than a skin one. There has been a bit of a revival of them as historic vessels having been used in 1963 to go to Iona, and then in 1997 (I think) for the same trip. There was also the Brendan voyage to America. Hope that this helps Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Loudene Tollar [mailto:ludiekt@juno.com] Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 1:12 AM To: Edward Andrews; Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Irish Sea Channel crossing I'm certainly learning and it is interesting. I was thinking in terms of the curraghs I saw in the south and west of Ireland as possible means of fishing and getting between Scotland and Ireland. Yes, and understand many too poor to own even so small a boat. Ludie

For Gilpin, deGylpyn, Gylpyn, Gilpinge and other spellings world wide: Public website See: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Nelda's websites - Please visit http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member