Would that this was true. While the history of the Methodists is as you outline it, to claim that it was straightforward is rather a simplification. Remember that this list is in part to do with finding genealogical records, and these are often church records. The result is that it is often important to understand that there is a difference between the Presbytery of the United Succession and the Synod of the continuing united succession (to make up two names though not completely) While the nice neat history of Methodism may be useful in Sunday School, its is not a lot of use if you are trying to find records in a North of England village where there are at least three branches of Methodism, Primitive and United. In Ireland the final departure of the Methodists from the Church of Ireland was quite late, but there were those who had left earlier. In Wales you have Calvinistic Methodists, and I think Ebenezer Methodists, though I'm not sure if they are a different bunch completely. In America there are a number of different permutations, and of course colour plays a part there as well. Good luck in your searches Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: agarvin224@aol.com [mailto:agarvin224@aol.com] Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 4:39 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Presbyterians I'm not a Methodist but I think there evolution was more "straightforward" - they "evolved" from the Church of England (Anglican, Episcopal), as both the Wesleys were Anglican priests - and they thought the church should be carried "to the people" rather than insisting that the people come to the church. Ann in MI -----Original Message----- From: Linda Merle <merle@mail.fea.net> To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:28:08 -0800 Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Presbyterians Dear Ed, thanks, that's what people wanted! Anyone know of a similar chart for Methodists???? Thanks! Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Edward Andrews" <edward.andrews@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:28:03 -0000 >For the PC USA try >http://history.pcusa.org/pres_hist/family_connections.html > >For the Church of Scotland try >http://uk.geocities.com/edward.andrews@btinternet.com/chart.html > >Edward Andrews > > > > > > _____ > >From: AGarvin224@aol.com [mailto:AGarvin224@aol.com] >Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:57 PM >To: edward.andrews@btinternet.com >Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Presbyterians > > > >In a message dated 2/23/06 3:37:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, >edward.andrews@btinternet.com writes: > > > > > >In Scotland there were a substantial number of splits and reunions from >1560, and these were in Presbyterianism sometimes reflected in Ireland. >Some of the Scottish splits carried across the Atlantic and were added to >by splits in America over local disputes. > > > >I assume I'm interested in the ways the Presbyterian church changed in the >US - originally from Scotland. >Ann > > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Hi- I wish to add on to Rev Andrews statement about "In Scotland there were a substantial number of splits and reunions from 1560, and these were in Presbyterianism sometimes reflected in Ireland.   Some of the Scottish splits carried across the Atlantic and were added to by splits in America over local disputes. Hope that this helps Edward Andrews". Now, I have met Rev Andrew before privately by E-mail. He admit to me that he knows very little about American history. Okay, I wish to get on with the splits religion history of Rev. John Giessendanner labored ten years as a Lutheran minister at St Mathews (town) of South Carolina, Now I did find a historic document online of " book of records" by John Giessendanner written on 1737 and beyond. The book believe to be own by Joop Giessendanner of Netherlands. Joop is a member of the Orangeburg county historical society of South Carolina. Joop would be glad to contact any relatives relating to the book of records. She will not do any genealogy research outside of the book of records. Will give my question and answer message from below from Joop and you will be able to figure out on the splits religion of John Gissendanner. ================================== Hi Joop- I have a question on the record as found below. ======================================169} On Sunday Septr 16th. ----- In Saxagotha Township Margaret, Daughter of Peter & Elizabeth Mercier; born July 25th. 1753. Susceptr. William & Esther Seawright, Elizabeth Mercier ====================================== I look up the word " Susceptr." in the many dictionary online and I came up with "susceptor (n.) One who undertakes anything; specifically, a godfather; a sponsor; a guardian. (This definition is from the 1913 Webster's Dictionary and may be outdated.)" Hi Jim, The definition is still valid.         So does that mean William & Esther Seawright were present ( alive) at the baptism of Margaret on the date of Sept. 16th 1753 ? I would think so. As godparents they would have a responsibility to the (Christian) upbringing of the child (in case of orphanage)           The name of Elizabeth Mercier and Elizabeth Haig are the one and the same as in your records. Haig was Elizabeth first husband.       I do have another question and wondered if your Hugg maybe another name for Haig. I don't think so I have more dope on Haig background in Orangburg if you are interested. I have no strong data on Haig, so any help is welcome for all Haig info prior ABT 1780         I also found the name Hugh Loviston (Leviston ?) in your record and he was married to Esther Seawright ( no children found), Esther was the daughter of William and Esther Seawright and the younger sister of Elizabeth ( Seawright) Mercier. Seawright is weak too, would appreciate any updates prior ABT 1780 Had no idea this Ester was in fact Ester Seawright, no further info on that couple except as sponsors to Eberhardt         Also I noticed from your records, the Reverend did religious ceremony at the house ( William Seawright's house ?) rather than at the church. I'm not sure which ceremony you mean, please give details. The Rev traveled quit a bit, when not in Orangeburgh (Church) he would do his duties in private homes. Did the Reverend wear two different hats ? ( Presbyterian and Episcopal church). He was Presbyterian before 1750 and Episcopal after, quote "Rev. John Giessendanner labored ten years as a Lutheran minister, after which, in 1749, he went to London to receive Episcopal ordination at the hands of Rev. Dr. Sherlock, Bishop of London." REF: Quoted in History of the German Settlements and of the Lutheran Church in North and South Carolina, by G. D. Bernheim, Philadelphia, The Lutheran Bookstore, 1872., p. 121. Rev. John went to England to be ordained an Anglican minister in May 1749. But, a few years after Giessendanner took the step threatened by his rival, and went to London for Episcopal ordination. The Anglican was the established church in the colony; the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel, though originally a non-denominational missionary society, now threw its influence on the same side in appointing its clergyman for work in the province, and many of the early Lutheran congregations were thus transferred to the Episcopal fold. REF: This information was extracted from the book entitled: "The Germans In Colonial Times", by Lucy Forney Bittinger, published by Russell & Russell of New York, in 1968. Orangeburgh Citizens Petition in Behalf of Rev. John Giessendanner went to London in 1749, received Episcopal ordination, and returned in 1750 REF: Salley page 38 unquote The Seawrights were to be very strongly Presbyterian. Nevertheless they would rather have a Anglican minister than no Reverend at all.   Best regards from the Netherlands Liebe Grüsse aus Holland Met vriendelijke groeten Joop Giesendanner visit: http://www.xs4all.nl/~sail (update 030407) including: * originals Book of Record (1737-1761) ================================== Hope not to confuse you in my way of writing. I am not very educated man like the others of this post. But if you have any questions for me to aswear and will be glad to respond to you privaty, Very sincerely, Jim

I'm not a Methodist but I think there evolution was more "straightforward" - they "evolved" from the Church of England (Anglican, Episcopal), as both the Wesleys were Anglican priests - and they thought the church should be carried "to the people" rather than insisting that the people come to the church. Ann in MI -----Original Message----- From: Linda Merle <merle@mail.fea.net> To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:28:08 -0800 Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Presbyterians Dear Ed, thanks, that's what people wanted! Anyone know of a similar chart for Methodists???? Thanks! Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Edward Andrews" <edward.andrews@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:28:03 -0000 >For the PC USA try >http://history.pcusa.org/pres_hist/family_connections.html > >For the Church of Scotland try >http://uk.geocities.com/edward.andrews@btinternet.com/chart.html > >Edward Andrews > > > > > > _____ > >From: AGarvin224@aol.com [mailto:AGarvin224@aol.com] >Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:57 PM >To: edward.andrews@btinternet.com >Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Presbyterians > > > >In a message dated 2/23/06 3:37:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, >edward.andrews@btinternet.com writes: > > > > > >In Scotland there were a substantial number of splits and reunions from >1560, and these were in Presbyterianism sometimes reflected in Ireland. >Some of the Scottish splits carried across the Atlantic and were added to >by splits in America over local disputes. > > > >I assume I'm interested in the ways the Presbyterian church changed in the >US - originally from Scotland. >Ann > > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

For the PC USA try http://history.pcusa.org/pres_hist/family_connections.html For the Church of Scotland try http://uk.geocities.com/edward.andrews@btinternet.com/chart.html Edward Andrews _____ From: AGarvin224@aol.com [mailto:AGarvin224@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:57 PM To: edward.andrews@btinternet.com Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Presbyterians In a message dated 2/23/06 3:37:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, edward.andrews@btinternet.com writes: In Scotland there were a substantial number of splits and reunions from 1560, and these were in Presbyterianism sometimes reflected in Ireland. Some of the Scottish splits carried across the Atlantic and were added to by splits in America over local disputes. I assume I'm interested in the ways the Presbyterian church changed in the US - originally from Scotland. Ann

Hi folks, no the history of Methodism is not simple! I've done research into them in my own family in England, where you got a couple groups to sift through. Here's a few links I found on them: US Methodist history: http://www.gcah.org/UMC_timeline.htm Methodists in Canada http://www.united-church.ca/ucc/history/ Primitive Methodists http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/REprimitive.htm Methodist research: http://rylibweb.man.ac.uk/data1/dg/methodist/methguid.html Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Dear Ed, thanks, that's what people wanted! Anyone know of a similar chart for Methodists???? Thanks! Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Edward Andrews" <edward.andrews@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:28:03 -0000 >For the PC USA try >http://history.pcusa.org/pres_hist/family_connections.html > >For the Church of Scotland try >http://uk.geocities.com/edward.andrews@btinternet.com/chart.html > >Edward Andrews > > > > > > _____ > >From: AGarvin224@aol.com [mailto:AGarvin224@aol.com] >Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:57 PM >To: edward.andrews@btinternet.com >Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Presbyterians > > > >In a message dated 2/23/06 3:37:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, >edward.andrews@btinternet.com writes: > > > > > >In Scotland there were a substantial number of splits and reunions from >1560, and these were in Presbyterianism sometimes reflected in Ireland. >Some of the Scottish splits carried across the Atlantic and were added to >by splits in America over local disputes. > > > >I assume I'm interested in the ways the Presbyterian church changed in the >US - originally from Scotland. >Ann > > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

It depends what you are wanting. There are a number of charts showing the history of the various branches of the Reformed Faith. Some of these are of considerable complexity. It is first of all necessary to specify the country in which you have an interest. In Scotland there were a substantial number of splits and reunions from 1560, and these were in Presbyterianism sometimes reflected in Ireland. Some of the Scottish splits carried across the Atlantic and were added to by splits in America over local disputes. Hope that this helps Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: AGarvin224@aol.com [mailto:AGarvin224@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:35 AM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Sc-Ir] Presbyterians last year or so, someone sent a grid/chart along that showed the "evolution" of Presbyterians/Calvanists - any idea how to access that? thanks Ann in MI

I have placed a large amount of births on the Loughbrickland section of my website, the website search engine will not pick up the new names till Monday morning, but you can browse through them just now by going to the Loughbrickland index page of my website and click on births, more names will be added this week, and the best of luck in your research. Raymond http://www.raymondscountydownwebsite.com

I have been made aware the links to congress do not work. I copied them from the earlier post and do not have any information to correct them. Sorry. Diane

The following was posted on the Berks Co. mailing list I subscribe to. It concerns vital records being closed for 100 years. There's a link to an article that explains it all. Diane Klopp "Life & Death of Public Records" http://www.alternet.org/story/32242 If you are concerned, here is a site that lists e-mail addresses for your senators in D. C.: www.senate.gov/general/ contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm - 101k - Here is a site with e-mail addresses of the congressmen: www.webslingerz.com/jhoffman/congress-email.html - 6k - Feb 20, 2006 -

Hi Ron, Northern Ireland has only existed since 1922. It's like asking "what census exists for the USA in 1641??" Haha!! None, of course! We Americans don't care, but our British and Irish cousins go to better schools and have higher standards. It's kinda insulting to them to not know a wee bit of their history. As you would feel insulted if they said "Whose this George guy everyone talks about? King George??" Hahaha,...no, not quite.... All the censuses for the kingdom of Ireland (Ulster being one of its provinces since primeval times), before 1901 have been totally or partially lost. You can find yourself a good book on Irish genealogy to learn about the fate of every single one if you like. Falley "IRish and Scotch- Irish Ancestral Research" will give you the blow by blow. What happens then in Falley and other books like the very affordable and readible "Discovering your Irish Ancestors" by Dwight A. Radford and Kyle J. Betit is they launch into a county by county description of what survives for that county. In most all cases of census fragments, the WHOLE one does not survive for the whole county, just certain parishes or townlands. I recall a partial for 1851 that's on the Internet somewheres....part of Antrim. In order to make use of these you must know at least the county you are interested in. If you had hoped to learn the county that your ancestor lived in by viewing a census, you must use a different strategy for Ireland. To learn how to do that, you consult one of the books or take a course, etc. You were not born knowing how to do this. None of us were. You also cannot learn how to do a good job of it on an Internet list. It's too complicated and too hard. Betit does summarize for us that the most important fragments to survive are the transcripts of the 1831 census of L'Derry and much of the 1821 census of Cavan. Both are filmed and in LDS. Even better, both are on a CD. However as tehre is always at least at 10% error rate in transcriptions, ALWAYS consult the original, which you can do for $5 by ordering the film. Betit dedicates in his chapter on Censuses and Name Lists exactly ONE paragraph to pre 1901 censuses and one para for the 1901 and 1911. The latter two are largely unusuable because of sparce indexing. You have to know the address of the person you are looking for and then wade through hundreds of film to find the film that might have the dude's address on it. I have successfully used the 1901 from the USA but since usually you want to find the address, forget it. Use Civil Registration to find the address. (A strategy for Irish genealogy--we all need about 20,000 more!) Then hire someone on location in Ireland (not Dublin for Ulster: the dude needs to know the local area). So what's in teh rest of Betit's chapter? Census substitutes. If you have not heard this term yet, you are need a headstart program for Irish genealogy. You would be expected to have heard this term in Irish genealogy first grade <grin>. That's beause it is used Ennndddlllesssllly. Unlike the word 'census'. Thank the good lord, we got a lot of these census substitutes. He deals with a handful of the obvious like religous censuses, spinning wheel surveys, old age pension applications, etc. He refers us to Ryan "IRish Records" and the FHL's 'Register of Irish Census and Census Substitutes". You can also use Grenham "IRish Ancestors". These all are by cou nty. For a list of census substitutes, etc, by county, slanted towards Protestants, see William Roulston's "Researching Scots-Irish Ancestors". ALL the census substitutes, however, are slanted towards Protestants including the Catholic qualification lists (of Catholics converting to Protestantism). Catholics get short shrift except for the one religious census. There's another one with just Protestants. So hopefully you know the county. If not, fire us the surname and maybe we can help narrow down the search with a lookup in Bell "Book of Ulster Surnames". However first check the archives at www.rootsweb.com (scroll to Mailing Lists, click on "Interactive Search", type in Scotch-Irish and search away....). That's because we've done a lot of this and burnt out every volunteer but me. I refuse to type in info a second time. I say this because 200 people will want me to look up "Wilson". Ain't doing it, folks! Have mercy. Buy this book and volunteer here to do lookups. Then you can get carpal tunnel typing in where WILSON is in Ulster. My spirit is willing but my flesh is weak. Actually my spirit is off doing more fun things as well <grin>. We need another martyr, eh, volunteer. We cannot even promise sainthood to the poor wrists that volunteer selflessly to destroy themselves on this important task but maybe a nice plug on a webpage we can do! Also google for FIANNA, our cousins at rootsweb. They have great help pages, as good as the books almost. Check www.genuki.org for links to free surviving census fragments and census substitutes on the 'net. LOTS are there. The 1651 or 3 (forget) census, called "Pendar's" really sucks big time as a census. Pendar was an Englishman. He knew little about Ireland. He did get the surnames right but he was not good at detecting ethnicity. He confused Scots with Irish (ie they speak funny language. In the mid 1600s many Scots spoke Gaelic). He found ONE Scotsman outside of Ulster. He identified a colony of Flemish as Irish (speak funny, must be Irish, right?). It has to be used cum grano salus (with a grain of salt) and only if you read up on it so you can correctly interpret what you find. If the name is not too common (first and last only) I can check the CD for you if your ancestors were in L'Derry or Cavan. Mine were! I found some. Amazing.... It was NORRIS from Swatragh in L'Derry, moved to Western PA in a steady stream in the early 1800s.... To share a story....a distant cousin descended contacted me and shared the story of her immigrant ancestor who arrived via Canada. While stopping over he fell in love with the waitress at his hotel and married her and brought her along. No doubt the rellies in Western PA were QUITE surprised. From him she inherited a Orange sash, I believe the oldest found. A newspaper article on him in his old age tells how he was an Orangeman in Ulster in the early 1800s. The cousin is almost as Catholic as the Pope. She married a first generation Irish immigrant who is now a banker and a very nice man. Their children attend Catholic colleges and visit the relatives in Ireland in the summer. To descend from this man is for her an extremely uncomfortable thing, I am sure, but she and her husband were very warm and nice to me when we met. We found we had a lot in common besides NORRIS from Swatragh (navel of the universe that it is). There's more on the NORRISes in the archives too...it's my memory, which is fading. Hope Rootsweb does good backups! Linda Merle ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: VistaRon96@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:49:53 EST >Speaking of census, what is available for Northern Ireland around 1831? > >Ron >Vista, CA, USA > >Searching for John (William) HAMILTON > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

last year or so, someone sent a grid/chart along that showed the "evolution" of Presbyterians/Calvanists - any idea how to access that? thanks Ann in MI

Hi folks, I mentioned this the other day and found the record for this Endless Project I'm working on. The Historical Register of Virginians in the Revolution identifies two men as Morgan’s Riflemen: · John McCommack · William McCommack (This source was constructed from pension records, etc, as we do not have musters) Morgan's Riflemen were active in NOrthern VA so we got a fix on where they lived. They are probably sons of "Dr. John" though there were others. More on him later. However a scrutinization of unpublished Revolutionary War pension records in Harrisburg revealed that Thomas McCamish had served in Morgan's Rangers too and drew a pension from PA. Dr. John McCormick/McCarmack DR. JOHN ISAAC MCCORMICK was b. in County Antrim, Ireland in 1698 and d. between 8 May and November 1768 in Frederick County, Virginia. John married ANN _____, b. ca. 1704 in Virginia at his estate, now in Summit Point, WV. He apparently purchased 395 acres of land from Jost Hite on 21 May 1740. According to an Ancestral File entry, they were married in Virginia about 1720 though others believe he married in Ireland. At that time Frederick County was part of Orange County. John appears in the 1740 Reconstructed Virginia Census as McAuarmich and McCormich. (He is the only entry). He is assessed in the 1754 Col. James Wood's Fee Book. John is the only McC*m* entry in the 1754 Fee Book for Frederick County. One researcher believes his birthplace to be Ballintoy, a parish in northern Antrim. Evidence for this allegation is not provided. An unsourced patron submission to IGI says his wife’s maiden name was MCFARREN though a Pedigree Resource File Entry says her name was SUSANNA GAULT. Neither allegation has a source. Dr. John McCormick is a key figure in the history of Frederick County Virginia. In the Sims Index to Land Grants in West Virginia Dr. John McCamick obtained 157 acres on Bull Skin Run in 1760. A John McCamick received 456 acres on Long Marsh on the same date. I do not know if this is the same person or not (Probably). (The other relevant land grant in Sims is Joseph McCamish on Elk Branch.). Pioneers of old Frederick County, Virginia claims that he bought land earlier in 1740 and that the 1760 purchase was additional land. The 1740 Reconstructed Census supports this (See above) as well as the 1754 tax record: · McCormack, John 172 assessment fee (all taxes were paid in tobacco). Some Virginia Families has this to say about Dr. John: Dr. John McCormick, who emigrated to Virginia from Ireland between the years 1730 and 1740, was the founder of this family in America. In the Orange County records there is a deed under the date of May 21, 1740 from Jost Hite to "John McCormick of Orange County" for 395 acres of land. Subsequently he took up other grants adjoining this property, which was located in that part of Orange County that eventually became Jefferson Co., WV. It was on this estate, near Summit Point, that in 1740 he built "The White House" which is still standing. "Weehaw" and "Upton" were a part of this property. He was a graduate in medicine of the University of Dublin, and brought with him to this country a large and valuable medical library.… Dr. John had eight children according to his will: i. JAMES2 MCCORMICK (John1) b. 1720, d. 1803 or 1798 , had 1. James, 2. Moses, +3. Joshua (53), 4. Sarah, 5. Samuel Lockhart m. Rachel., 6. John, 7. Thomas Grigs m.. MERCY (LUPTON) HAINES. ii. JOHN2 MCCORMICK (John1) b.1722. iii. FRANCIS2 MCCORMICK (John1) b. 17 April 1734 or 1724, d. in Summit Point, Virginia 4 October 1816, according to an Ancestral File entry (AFN: 1QTT-PKP). The same source says his second wife was ANN FROST. An IGI patron submission says he died 1794. iv. WILLIAM2 MCCORMICK (John1) b. 22 February 1738 and d. in Pennsylvania in 1818. He lived in Western Pennsylvania. In 1771 William McCormick is identified as a trustee of the Hopewell. Presbyterian Congregation in a deed of land to this congregation. Magnes Tate (Dr. John’s son-in-law) is a witness to this deed. v. GEORGE2 MCCORMICK (John1),: b. 1736. vi. ANDREW MCCORMICK (John1) b. 1738. vii. MARY2 MCCORMICK (John1) b. 1740, m. MAGNUS TATE. viii. JEAN2 MCCORMICK (John1) b. ca. 1742, m. JAMES BRYAN. Is anyone here descended from Dr. John??? LInda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Speaking of census, what is available for Northern Ireland around 1831? Ron Vista, CA, USA Searching for John (William) HAMILTON

Hi Merle, Just to share with you my excitement of the moment. I have just received email that I have been admitted to the Creative Writing Dept. major for a second BA degeee. It is good news as I was afraid as Over 60 student I wouldn't get in again. Anyway some famous people Anne Rice, Jim Garvey, Annette Benning are graduates of this class at SFSU. Geez it will be hard work. I hope I can do well. Its hard to write well or reveal your innermost thoughts to anyone much less a book. Anyway it won't be until August 06. Cheers, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Merle To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:14 AM Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] New list Hi Rob, Gee, say the word 'recipe' agin and you might that YOU are the proud admin of the Scotch Irish list <grin>. That's mean you find in your inbox: 200 "Cannot deliver email" messages 50 "GET ME OFF THIS LIST!" messages 50 "Finally, a NICE topic!" messages 15 successful unsub messages 5 "Why is xxx sending me deaththreats?" messages 4 emails I can't understand. (Get the internet out of the Alzhiemer units!) 25 recipes for 'tomato sandwich' and 4 for possum 75 mass unsubs from British cousins offended by our bad spelling and hideous cuisine (it's the American schools, guys!) 40 emails blaming me for everything. 1 sub message 1 email trying to find a ancestor .... in Scotland. 1 mass-emailed funeral announcement for the IRA spy on the list who died from boredom like the last one. 1 email from rootsweb 'help desk' claiming someone claims I insulted him/her. So I say we all join the Unionist list and post our favorite Scotch Irish recipes!! Linda Merle (SI Admin, who hopes her time here reduces her time in purgatory) ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Rob Hilliard" <rhilliard@mackinengineering.com> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:10:54 -0500 >Edward, >I, for one, will look forward to subscribing to your new list. I go >back nearly to the inception of this S-I list, but after a few years I >took a rather long hiatus until recently. When I resubscribed I found, >as you alluded, that the tenor of the list had changed to something >resembling more traditional genweb research lists - unquestionably an >important and useful tool, but not nearly as much fun as the old days. > >For Pete's sake, I've been back almost two months and there hasn't been >even one fight yet! Or one recipe discussion. > >Ah, the good old days . . . > >Rob > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Edward Andrews [mailto:edward.andrews@btinternet.com] >Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 1:35 PM >To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [Sc-Ir] New list > >Sorry folks to subscribe to the list which I recently advertised > >* Subscribing. Clicking on one of the shortcut links below should work, >but if your browser doesn't understand them, try these manual >instructions: to join Unionist-Culture-L, send mail to >Unionist-Culture-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word subscribe >in the message subject and body. To join Unionist-Culture-D, do the same >thing with Unionist-Culture-D-request@rootsweb.com. ><mailto:Unionist-Culture-D-request@rootsweb.com> > >* Subscribe ><mailto:Unionist-Culture-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe&body=s >ubsc >ribe> to Unionist-Culture-L >* Subscribe ><mailto:Unionist-Culture-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe&body=s >ubsc >ribe> to Unionist-Culture-D (digest) > >Edward Andrews > > > >Only by recovering prophetic and objective modes of preaching, in >faithfulness to the gospel of Christ crucified and in contradiction to >society's profane habits and priorities, can we truly challenge our >dying culture and reveal to it its own possibilities for resurrection. > Alan E Lewis. "Between Cross and Resurrection. A Theology of Holy >Saturday" >Eerdmans 2001 p 377 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

Thank you Charles for your helpful information. Now for my next Question. I am looking for a William HOBSON the only timeline information that I have is that he had a son Robert b. 1818 in county Armagh. Robert emigrated to Canada in 1835 according to the Ontario 1901 census. I am wondering if William emigrated at the same time. So I am thinking that William and his family might be in some census before that time. His wife's given name is Mary Ann. Could SKS do a look up please? The ultimate goal is to see if there is some connection between this family and the Frances HOBSON family. Thank you in advance for any help you can provide. Forrest Plumstead fplum1@gmail.com Researching the following Surnames: Bushouse, Plumstead, Risser, Schroeder, Senne, Thayer, Quaker Families: Coppock, Heald, Hobson, Hollingsworth, Potts, Ross, Watt Plumstead and Associated Families: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum/ Military Kool Lynx: http://geocities.com/fplum/ Ham Radio WB5HQO http://forrest.3h.com/main.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles and Maria Shaw" <theshawclan@comcast.net> To: "Forrest Plumstead" <fplum1@gmail.com>; <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Census > Forrest, > > There is a census for all of the Ulster Plantation in 1659 including > County Armaugh. I have seen Armaugh but only have copies of Counties Antrim > and Down since that's where almost all my ancestors were located. However, > these censuses are only broken down by Parrish, Town, Title Holder's Name, # > People and then Count of English/ Scots vice Count of Irish. You may be > lucky if the family held title to a grant of land such as the case in > Antrim, or held a caretaker position for an Earl in Down, or even head of a > militia company for a district since they are often mentioned by name. > Copies of these censuses along with selected family information has been > published by the Irish Genealogical Foundation and can be found at > www.irishroots.com. > > This 1659 Census is the earliest existing census of which I'm aware but > it doesn't contain many specifics so you generally resort to numerous > secondary sources as a substitute for the census prior to the 1830s. The > National Library and PRONI have many of these including the Freeholder's > (Land Owners) Rolls for various years, Poll Book or Electors Rolls for > various years, Church/ Parrish censuses, etc.. The church is often the best > source. > > This seems to be the rule for Colonial Virginia as well as the Ulster > Plantation generally. Good Luck. > > > > V/R > > > > Chuck Shaw > > Charles H. Shaw, III, CPL > 15934 Spyglass Hill Loop > Lake Manassas > Gainesville, VA 20155 > USA > Home: 703-753-0549 > Cell: 609-405-2511 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Forrest Plumstead" <fplum1@gmail.com> > To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:20 PM > Subject: [Sc-Ir] Census > > > > Does anybody know if there were any census in County Armagh before 1835? > > > > Forrest Plumstead fplum1@gmail.com > > Researching the following Surnames: > > Bushouse, Plumstead, Risser, Schroeder, Senne, Thayer, > > Quaker Families: Coppock, Heald, Hobson, Hollingsworth, Potts, Ross, Watt > > Plumstead and Associated Families: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum/ > > Military Kool Lynx: http://geocities.com/fplum/ > > Ham Radio WB5HQO http://forrest.3h.com/main.html > > > > >

Hi folks, The current issue of the New England Ancestors (winter 2006) has a letter from George L. Trigg regarding a previous article on the "mill Irish" identifying another group of Irish... besides 'shanty' and 'lace curtain' -- which he doesn't mention but 'famine', that he does. That's 'dissenting Irish', as he calls them. His source is a book I believe I scanned and learned a lot from too. It's "Irish Migrants in the Canadas" by Bruce S. Elliott, now in its second edition (2004) from McGill-Queens University Press. This book describes a migration of people from Ireland from 1820 to perhaps 1855 (he says) when (he says) authorities were making efforts to reduce the number of dissenters in Ireland, ie people neither Catholic or Church of Ireland -- by offering them free land in Canada. This brought a large number of Methodists from all over Ireland to Canada. Elliott's book, alas, focuses on migrants from North Tipperary. The world awaits a broader study. I did some work for a client whose ancestor was probably one of these Irish Methodists whose descendents came to the USA. The book is expensive to buy so try Interlibrary Loan. I don't recall if it's in the lending library of NEHS.... Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net

The most well known of Washington's scouts in the west was Christopher Gist, originally of Cumberland, MD and later a settler in what is now Fayette County, PA (his settlement was probably the first of any size west of the Alleghenies and was located between current Uniontown and Connellsville). Before GW came along, Gist had scouted western VA, PA, and much of what is now OH (the Miami River basin) for the Ohio Company. He was undoubtedly a local and knew the area perhaps better than anyone alive at the time. Gist later moved to NC (maybe SC?) and became an Indian agent under GW's presidency. His son Nathaniel was an officer on the western frontier during the Revolution and there is much speculation that Sequoia (George Gist/Guest), the man who led the Cherokees on the Trail of Tears and invented the Cherokee syllabary, was Christopher's grandson. That was about it for western PA scouts, though. There just wasn't anyone here at the time - you can't get scouts from an empty room. >I am relieved to hear that my family is not the only weird family in Western PA. Hardly. >When I was attending college, the linguistic professor could tell which side of PGH you was raised in by your accent. This kinda localization I guess only happens if you do stay put! There are many dissertations on Pittsburghese and I won't waste everyone's time with that now. However, I'll throw this one out: In western PA the term for being nosey is "nebby." My understanding is that the Ulster-Scots word for 'nose' is 'neb.' Coincidence? I think not. >Wow, you live ON THE OTHER SIDE of the Airport? I didn't know we'd settled that area yet. Just within the past few weeks. >Where I live now is very very geographically difficult. The Allegheny which is flowing....I donno....from the NE?? You got it. It flows generally SW from there to Pittsburgh. >makes a big hairpin turn so that Westmoreland Co becomes a pimple sticking out into it on three sides. That's Arnold! BTW, not the first time I've heard Arnold described as a pimple - but the other references weren't to geography. >My ancestors moved to Westmoreland Co (southern) in 1785, then the next generation crossed the Allegheny at Freeport, and somehow hauled their tired butts up the huge bluff to the plateau. This Frances Anderson did a number of years before it was purchased from the Indians. So he settled illegally, around 1804, taking over from an earlier settler named Murphy. Thus leading to the fateful moment when your family married into mine (though you might state it the other way around). Perhaps it's no coincidence that both of our families are weird. >But the rest is still farmland peppered with an occasional Presbyterian church. This also describes the area where I live now. In a place where the cows very nearly outnumber the people, we have three Presbyterian churches - evidence that it was largely settled by S-I and that, as usual, they couldn't get along. Not one Catholic church even to this day. >They apparently do advertizing at corporate because they screwed up the address. I know this is the case because I heard a recent radio ad for the new store in which they mispronounced 'Tarentum' (TARE-un-tum instead of Tah-REN-tum). A common mistake for those furriners. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Linda Merle [mailto:merle@mail.fea.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 6:23 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Subject: History Alert and W PA geography lesson Rob, have you read about scouts? It's hard to believe that GW could find decent scouts of Western PA in Williamsburg! Surely he had to recruit a few 'locals' (to use the term very broadly <grin>). If only I was closer to those daily orders -- they might show him hiring local scouts.

Edward, I, for one, will look forward to subscribing to your new list. I go back nearly to the inception of this S-I list, but after a few years I took a rather long hiatus until recently. When I resubscribed I found, as you alluded, that the tenor of the list had changed to something resembling more traditional genweb research lists - unquestionably an important and useful tool, but not nearly as much fun as the old days. For Pete's sake, I've been back almost two months and there hasn't been even one fight yet! Or one recipe discussion. Ah, the good old days . . . Rob -----Original Message----- From: Edward Andrews [mailto:edward.andrews@btinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 1:35 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Sc-Ir] New list Sorry folks to subscribe to the list which I recently advertised * Subscribing. Clicking on one of the shortcut links below should work, but if your browser doesn't understand them, try these manual instructions: to join Unionist-Culture-L, send mail to Unionist-Culture-L-request@rootsweb.com with the single word subscribe in the message subject and body. To join Unionist-Culture-D, do the same thing with Unionist-Culture-D-request@rootsweb.com. <mailto:Unionist-Culture-D-request@rootsweb.com> * Subscribe <mailto:Unionist-Culture-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe&body=s ubsc ribe> to Unionist-Culture-L * Subscribe <mailto:Unionist-Culture-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe&body=s ubsc ribe> to Unionist-Culture-D (digest) Edward Andrews Only by recovering prophetic and objective modes of preaching, in faithfulness to the gospel of Christ crucified and in contradiction to society's profane habits and priorities, can we truly challenge our dying culture and reveal to it its own possibilities for resurrection. Alan E Lewis. "Between Cross and Resurrection. A Theology of Holy Saturday" Eerdmans 2001 p 377

Rob, we're glad you are back and clearly you are an under utilitized resource. Question: When did Croghan come on the scene?? Anyone here descended from Christopher Gist?? There was/is a list devoted to Ulster Scots, run by a guy with a Phd. He said it was probably impossible to tell exactly how the very very Belfast-like Pittsburghese developed because Ulster Scots was influenced by German (Angles lived in Edinburgh and much of the lowlands) just like the Germans live here. I don't think they got 'chipped ham' in Belfast. But when I go there people say "Hmmm I thought WE were the only ones who said that...." a lot. I don't have a problem understanding the English. Ballymena is another problem, though. Durham, England is awful -- I needed a translater. I also met an Ulster cousin who visited Western PA. He rented a car and drove north, apparently to Butler and Beaver, not Pittsburgh...or maybe he was trying to FIND Pittsburgh.... in any case, he said it was so much like home he could not believe it. Only the flag flying on the post offices was different. I think the terraine is most like Tyrone, myself. Pittsburgh is very like Belfast as well (a crusty old industrial town). On the other hand, if you've been to Boston, you've been to Dublin! (except for the donkey carts in the middle of the streets -- my taxi driver almost bagged a donkey on the way to my hotel one trip). Maybe we should start a "Can't afford overseas? Come to Pittsburgh" campaign??? >BTW, not the first time I've heard Arnold described as a pimple - but >the other references weren't to geography. Gee thats surprising as even the drug dealers here are old. We got a Catholic church in Arnold (it was an Italian town). We don't have, within 20 miles a Unitarian church or anything more liberal than a Methodist....well, there is an Episky, but I suspect they are not Vermonters. >I know this is the case because I heard a recent radio ad for the new >store in which they mispronounced 'Tarentum' (TARE-un-tum instead of >Tah-REN-tum). A common mistake for those furriners. I find it hard to believe anyone can mispronounce the name, which shows you that I didn't talk to furriners even when I didn't live here <grin>. Now at least I know how to detect invading VIRginians (no one else ever tries to come here). Well....between no one being able to find the Walmart and their reminding us they are not local and their labor problems, a lot of people refuse to shop at it at all. Maybe Kmart WILL survive. Back to work. Linda Merle ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.fea.net