I know the Ulster Historical Foundation had a project of recording grave marker inscriptions. There were published books. Does anyone know whether Coleraine's have been recorded. thanks, Charles

Joyce: The Rev. Holmes who signed the petition to emigrate to New England (Boston) is not Rev. William Homes of Strabane and later Chilmark, Massachusetts. Rev. William was already in the Colonies. The given name of Rev. Homes who signed the petition is unknown to me. I'm trying to determine if he did indeed emigrate and where he and his group settled. I'm trying to trace my Holmes ancestry and I feel he is connected to one of the Holmes mentioned in the petition. I've also tried unsuccessfully to trace brothers Thomas and John Homes, mentioned in Bolton's book. I feel that possibly John Homes was living in Cambridge, Mass., not Boston as Bolton indicates. I appreciate your help, Charles Joyce Hamilton <jhamilton4@earthlink.net> wrote: Dear Charles: Do you know the first name of your Rev. Holmes? Charles Bolton's "Scotch Irish Pioneers" has a whole chapter on a Rev. William Homes from Strabane, Co. Tyrone. In 1714 he brought his wife and 9 children to settle in Massachusetts and took over the church in Chilmark, Martha's Vineyard. A number of his relatives and in-laws in Ulster were also clergy.

Dear Charles: Do you know the first name of your Rev. Holmes? Charles Bolton's "Scotch Irish Pioneers" has a whole chapter on a Rev. William Homes from Strabane, Co. Tyrone. In 1714 he brought his wife and 9 children to settle in Massachusetts and took over the church in Chilmark, Martha's Vineyard. A number of his relatives and in-laws in Ulster were also clergy. One of William's sons, Robert, was a sea captain who shuttled back and forth to Ulster bringing news about opportunities in New England. Both father and son were friends and correspondents of Cotton Mather. During the winter of 1717/18, Mather was working on a plan to attract hardy settlers for the Indian-beset Massachusetts frontier, and Robert Homes became his primary agent and promoter. Robert left for Ulster in the spring of 1718, spent the summer drumming up potential emigrants, and returned to Boston in October 1718 on the "Mary & Elizabeth" as first mate under Alexander Miller, master. He undoubtedly brought Homes relatives with him. In 1719 Robert Homes made another trip, this time as master of the "Elizabeth". Rev. William Homes kept a diary, which was reprinted in the NEHGS Register in 1894. It includes some of his own family records along with Chilmark church records. It is available online at www.newenglandancestors.org if you are a member of NEHGS: Register, Volume 48, pp 446-453. Incidentally, you can read the "Boston News-Letter" issues which include the 5-ships arrivals online. No passenger names are listed, but it is fascinating background reading. It's available from the NewsBank "Early American Newspapers" collection. You can access it through the NEHGS website, the Godfrey Library and from many university libraries. If this is not your line, Bolton also lists "Holmes" settlers, some of whom were Ruling Elders, but do not appear to be clergy: Thomas Holmes from Coleraine settled in Dracut John Holmes, his brother, settled in Boston William Holmes went to Casco Bay, Maine and then fled to Boston after Indian attacks Hugh "Hollmes" - a signer of the petition to Governor Shute Abraham Holmes from Aghadowey to Nutfield. Hope this helps. Joyce Hamilton -----Original Message----- From: charles [mailto:jitsu93@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 5:33 AM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Rev. Holmes to Boston, 1718 Rev. Holmes was on one of the 5 Scotch-Irish ships arriving Boston, 1718. Does anyone have any information on his homeplace in Ulster or where he settled in New England? thanks, Charles

Came across this interesting snippet while research an ancestor, I will type it in it's entirety and hopefully it will mean something to someone out there and they will be so kind as to get back to me. The following was written to the Victorian Police Force, Australia, (I'm guessing because Victoria was the State they believed Michael KELLY had migrated to) I have done a quick check of passenger lists into Victoria and have not found a Michael KELLY. I'm looking for a Daniel KELLY b c1818 who left Liverpool 1841 and arrived Port Phillip, Victoria Australia 17/07/1841. Daniel KELLY seems to disappear after 1849. He was from Derry Ireland, and RC. KELLY, Michael. See KELLY, Nicholas T. KELLY, Nicholas T. of police force Chicago, wrote in 1901 re brother Michael, who left Liverpool (Eng) c1844 for Australia. Father died in Ireland, and mother and rest of family - Matthew, Hugh J., Nicholas T., Mary, Ann, Bridget and Lucy emigrated to USA. 5 pages, List 5 Regards Ruth ____________________________________________________ On Yahoo!7 Dancing with the Stars: Win tickets to be part of the glittering Grand Final! http://www.yahoo.com.au/dancing-with-the-stars

Hi folks, Here's a website that has a map of PA in 1760. It shows the location of various forts used in the French and Indian (Seven Years) War and shows major migration routes. Scrooollll down! http://www.mccordfamilyassn.com/pennsylv.htm Here's the story of a family massacre in Maine in the late 1600s: http://users.rcn.com/smartin.javanet/longley.htm And the abduction and massacre of the Jemison (Jamison) family in Adams Co, PA in 1755. One daughter was adopted by the Senecas and lived among them the rest of her life. This is her tombstone: In Memory of The White Woman Mary Jemison Daughter of Thomas Jemison & Jane Irwin, Born on the ocean, between Ireland and Phila., in 1742 or 3. Taken captive at Marsh Creek, Pa. in 1755 carried down the Ohio, Adopted into an Indian family. In 1759 removed to Genesee River. Was naturalized in 1817. Removed to this place in 1831. And having survived two husbands and five Children, leaving three still alive; She Died Sept 19th 1833 aged about ninety- One years, Having a few weeks before expressed a hope Of pardon through JESUS CRHIST “The counsel of the Lord that shall stand.” Linda Merle

Rev. Holmes was on one of the 5 Scotch-Irish ships arriving Boston, 1718. Does anyone have any information on his homeplace in Ulster or where he settled in New England? thanks, Charles

Hi Edward , Hope email finds things going well. Thanks very much for your time & interest. Thanks for the post, your so very kind. I always look forward to reading your vast knowledge. See my comments below. Good luck with your family search. All the best. Genealogy yours , Grandpa Walt "Scot-Ulster-Irish" McKenzie, Sr. ================================================================ Surname---------------------------IRE BRICKWALL----------------------Origin Placenames ---------------------------------------------c.1810-73--------------------------------------------- McKENZIE , Daniel, Eliz., John, James Lloyd**, George Thomas** BALLYMONEY * MILLER , Margaret (Millar, Meuller) BALLYMONEY CASSIDY , Maryann**, John, Patrick** BALLYMONEY -------------------------------------------------- * Likely Ulster NI, particularly Antrim, Ire has 1-2 doz. Ballymoney's. All males Ire & Eng were farmers & labourers ** Also, 1873 -1907 Bingley, YORK & Accrington, LANCASHIRE & Durham, NEW CASTLE, ENG as well as Annan, GLASGOW, SCOT. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Andrews" <edward.andrews@btinternet.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] Roll Call - McKENZIE & MILLER - Antrim / Derry, Ire - 1790 to 1850 I'm not a family historian or genealogist . . . just a grandpa interested in one long McKenzie line Walt > What are you doing mentioning Henry VIII? Since key to cracking my / this 15yr brickwall is which religion is basic / essential, I'm looking very carefully at what took place since / after the Reformation 1533 starting point. I don't know when my McKenzie line turned devote practicing Catholics in Sct or Ire between 15-16 th century MacKenzie Clan or 1810-25 to 1871 Ire. Walt All my brickwall clues involve info from USA, Eng, Ire & Sct. I'm just starting a rool call effort where I will post on 3 Rootsweb sites every mo. each year until I solve my brickwall. Walt > Until 1603 Scotland and England were separate countries in every way, you > know like Canada and the US? This I knew in gammer school and Sct was Catholic Walt > The Episcopalians lost out to the Presbyterian in 1689 at the time of the > "Glorious" revolution. 1745 was a rebellion after which the Episcopalians > were more heavily persecuted. Thanks for the input from your vast knowledge. Walt > The whole point of this list is that while Ireland was mainly Roman > Catholic as the Reformation didn't work in Ireland, the various population > movements into the North East changed that balance so that in that area a > majority were protestant of one kind or another - the mixture of protestant > denominations is important as they all have different records and different I knew. Walt > While there were not well known risings in Ireland during the 18th Century, > There was a constant rumble of inter communal tensions over the problem of > land holdings. Presbyterians were under various civil disadvantages. However > the people in Ulster had Ulster tenant right which meant that when the early > 99 year or three lives leases fell in people had capital which they were > able to take to the new colony in America. I knew. Walt > There had always been movement between Scotland and Ireland however after > the Plantation most of the movement from Scotland was Protestant as most of > Scotland was Protestant. I realize very well that about 1702 and on, Sct was like 5 % Catholic but somewhere along the way my Mckenzie's converted. Walt > Generally speaking you can't really make any judgement of people's religion > by their surname. For example what would you expect an Adams to be? > I hope that this clarifies some of the misconceptions which you have here. > Edward Andrews Generally one can have clues from surname about religion e.g. MacKenzie, Miller more likely Protestant (2) than Catholic but I have 5 items that suggest Catholic prior to 1871 in Ire via Eng & USA. Walt > -----Original Message----- > From: Walt"Irish"- Cent.NJ Shore via Boston [mailto:WaltIrish1@comcast.net] > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:28 PM > To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Sc-Ir] Roll Call - McKENZIE & MILLER - Antrim / Derry, Ire - 1790 > to 1850 > > McKENZIE ~ MADDEN ~ CASSIDY ~ O'NEIL ~ SULLIVAN ~ SHEEHAN > IRE Sponsors : MOONEY ~ GREY ~ KENNEDY in USA > BALLYMONEY ~ QUEBEC ~ YORK ~ LANCASHIRE ~ GLASGOW ~ BOSTON > Greetings All , > Primary essential roll call info is on first portion of > page 1. Any input > greatly appreciated. McKenzie suggest Protestant but family all CATHOLIC > since > 1874 US & possibly earlier in 18-19th century Ire. > May the God of your understanding BLESS > YOU. > Grandpa Walt > "Scot-Ulster-Irish" McKenzie, Sr. > > Unknown McKENZIE b.c. 1793* > (My GGG Grandfather) > //BRICKWALL INDIVIDUAL\\ > Daniel McKENZIE b.c. 1820* Ire ? John McKENZIE b.c. 1827* Ire ? > (My GG Grandfather) (Daniel's Brother or Cousin > ? - Farmer**) > d.c. 1871*** Ire ? > Children > m.c. 1846 Mgt. MILLER (Mueller)* James Lloyd b.c.1848-52**&**** Ire > Not listed at Groni as Protestant m. m. April 25, 1874 to Mary CASSIDY > Ire**. > Children (at CATHOLIC Chapel > North Rd. York, ENG) > BALLYMONEY,*****Ire Children**** > Elizabeth b. June1841 or 47****Ire Alice E. 5, John 3, & Mary > A. 2m > m. None - To BOSTON 1895 James - stone mason**** 1881 & labourer** > 1874 > John b. Aug 1848 Ire From YORK to LANCASHIRE, ENG > 1878-1880 > m. 1874 CATH.- Katie MADDEN KEIGHLY / BINGLEY to ACCRINGTON Distrs. > Children USA GeorgeThomas > b.c.1885-89**GATESHEAD ?,ENG > Francis (Frank) Joseph b. 1875 GLASGOW to NY 1907 Residence ANNAN,SCOT > John , Jr. b. 1881 CATHOLIC m. 908 BOSTON to > Helen MADDEN > Daniel Christopher b. 1887 Soc. Secu. 1935 - Age 48 Unemployed - > Parents : > Joseph b. 1891 JamesLoyd McKENZIE & MaryAnn > McKENZIE > O'NEIL~SULLIVAN~SHEEHAN Shipper Foreman 1908 & House Painter 1968 > BOSTON-SOMERVILLE,MA,USA Children - None > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------- > * Based on children birth year. > ** Children or self m. record. > *** Based on son John 1872 arrival in BOSTON via QUEBEC, CANADA. > **** Based on children age, b. in 1900 US or 1881 ENG census. > ***** Children ship passenger record ; 12 in Ire, likely ANTRIM, Ire. > BACKGROUND INFO > > SCOTS / ULSTER / IRISH - 17-18th CENTURY - Mc PROT. / CATH. - 03 / 06 > > Scot. - Reformation (1533 Henry VIII) took place post-1560 and > during the > 600 -1700's (17th -18th century) Scot. transformed itself from Catholicism > to > Protestantism. In the 1600's there was much upheaval in Scot. In 1702, > Scot. was > less than 5 % Catholic and concentrated in the NW islands, the Highlands, > Aberdeenshire. In 1745, the Episcopalians lost out to the CoS Presbyt. > Both > Protestant & Catholic Scots men went to Antrim, Ulster, Ire as farmers, > builders > & blacksmiths and married Irish Catholic women. Even though the Presbyt. > were > more welcomed than the Catholics, the children were raised Catholic and > eventually > the whole family assimilating into Irish culture and thus lost their Scots > identity. > The Irish Clan McSweeny, Clan Donald & O'Neill, originally from Scot., are > well-known examples. Many Catholics were given shelter and protected by Sir > Randal McDonald, ethically Catholic, in his Glens of Antrim, Ire. These > Scots were > from Ayrshire & Argyle (McDonald homeland). > Ire - During the 16-1700's (17-18th century) Ire was mostly > Catholic. LDS > Family Search.org list in Ire b. 1688, a James McKenzie of Carnmoney, Co. > Antrim and b. 1698, a Rev. John McKenzie (Presbytr. pastor 1673-1696 CoI ?) > appeared in Cookstown, Tyrone. In the 1700's, Ire was relatively peaceful > until > the 1798 Rebellion which brought economic restrictions and less immigration. > In 1718, the first wave of Ulster Scots emigrated to America. Also, > Presbyt. & > Catholic restrictions were starting to be lifted. > > IRE APPLOMT. TITHES -ANTRIM/DERRY - 1831 - Mc PROT./CATH.-03 / 06 > > By the 19th century in 1830"s there were substantial presence of > Catholic > Mc surnames in NI. Upon surveying some of the Antrim / Derry 1830's NI > Applotments Tithes records, it is apparent that Mc surnames are > approximately > 24 % Catholic. The 76 % Protestant are largely Presbyterian. Of the Mc's, > none > were McKenzie and one was a McKinny. This is expected since US records > indicate that my family were poor farmers in Ire and 3 adult males were > unemployed in the 1900 census. There were 57 % Mc's families with the > identical > surname that were split e.g. 67 % or 50 % or 33 % Catholic vs. Protestant. > Families remaining all Protestant represented 43 % of the Mc's. It is > interesting to > note, that all the Miller's were Protestant. The O'Neil's were 17% > Catholic. As > expected, there were no primarily So. Ire Madden, Cassidy, Sullivan or > Sheehan > etc. Via the Tithes, the first apparent Catholic McKenzie in Ire, a John > McKenzie > b.c 1783 in Sligo followed by a John McKenzie b.c. 1824 in Quinn, Co. Clare. > In the Ire 1831 Aghadowey, Derry census, 1 Daniel McKensey is > listed. Via > Griffiths records, one Daniel McKenzie (DM) has been identified in each Cos. > Derry > (Magherafelt, Leckagh), Tyrone (Donaghmore, Mullaughmore), Mayo > (Crossmolina) > & Fermanagh (Derrybrusk, Ballyreagh). Other Fermanagh McKenzie family > Derryvullan Irvinestown & Tempo. One DM listed in Co. Antrim 1842 Belfast > directory as a pub owner living at Donegal Quay. No DM's found in Tithes > and the > surname McKenzie were Tyrone 30, Antrim 7, Down 2 & Derry 1. Dual surname > (McKenzie / Miller) are as follows : Tyrone 18, Belfast 12, Derry 9, Antrim > 8, Sligo 4, > Down 3, Dublin 3 with 1 each in Fermanagh, Monahan, Laois. Via LDS IGI, one > DM each identified in Cos. Donegal, Sligo, Kerry & Limerick. A total of 7 > documented DM's in all and as expected all in No. Ire with 4 in Ulster. > There are > probably a few more DM's, just too poor to be listed on any records. From > 1875 to > 1908 in the US there is no given name pattern in my McKenzie line that > follow Scot or Ire naming pattern. > The bad news is ... some will say that one can not trace / find > common or > average people before 1820. Maybe true for Catholics but, the good news is > that > this is not true, particularly for Protestants. Protestants are far more > likely to be > named in some unusual records that they did manage to keep in Ireland before > church records. One needs to learn how to find and use these records. First, > you > need to already have some info on your ancestor. Surnames do not only > originated > in one place and migrate from there. This is especially true with Me > surnames. > Secondly, for pre-1860 records, particularly Catholic, one needs to depend > heavily > on the net and genealogy list, & individuals interaction / interchange, as > well as, > baptismal records to obtain very difficult brickwall 18th - 19th century > data. The > best path is via brickwall roll call summaries with key individuals, > surnames, > places of origin, religion(s), dates with postings at regular intervals. > Religion > Suggest Protestant Suggest Catholic > ------------------------- > ----------------------- > o McKenzie surname more likely o Daniel's c. 1846 m., not listed > as > Protestant of Scot. origin. Protestant at > GRONI. > o Miller surname more likely o John b. Aug.1848 of Ire, m. > Katie > Protestant of German, English Madden of Ire (single > boarder) via a > origin. Cath. > Mass less than 2 yrs > after > > arriving in Boston. > o James > b.c. 1848-52 of Ire, > m. Mary > > Cassidy of Ire (single > boarder) via > > Cath. Mass 1874 in Eng. > o All 6 US > b. McKenzie's > 1875-1908 > as > well as all 1908-2002 > were b., m. > & d. > in Cath. Church and > utilized > > Cath. Homes for children > & elderly > > during early 1900's. > o George > b. c. 1887 Eng, m. US > Cath. > > Mass 1908 less than 1 > yr. after > > arriving in Boston. > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/302 - Release Date: 4/5/2006 > >

As this is an Irish list and not a Scottish list I don't normally comment on Scottish history here. There are however a couple of comments which I need to make. What are you doing mentioning Henry VIII? Until 1603 Scotland and England were separate countries in every way, you know like Canada and the US? The Episcopalians lost out to the Presbyterian in 1689 at the time of the "Glorious" revolution. 1745 was a rebellion after which the Episcopalians were more heavily persecuted. The whole point of this list is that while Ireland was mainly Roman Catholic as the Reformation didn't work in Ireland, the various population movements into the North East changed that balance so that in that area a majority were protestant of one kind or another - the mixture of protestant denominations is important as they all have different records and different folk memories. While there were not well known risings in Ireland during the 18th Century, There was a constant rumble of inter communal tensions over the problem of land holdings. Presbyterians were under various civil disadvantages. However the people in Ulster had Ulster tenant right which meant that when the early 99 year or three lives leases fell in people had capital which they were able to take to the new colony in America. There had always been movement between Scotland and Ireland however after the Plantation most of the movement from Scotland was Protestant as most of Scotland was Protestant. Generally speaking you can't really make any judgement of people's religion by their surname. For example what would you expect an Adams to be? I hope that this clarifies some of the misconceptions which you have here. Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Walt"Irish"- Cent.NJ Shore via Boston [mailto:WaltIrish1@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:28 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Sc-Ir] Roll Call - McKENZIE & MILLER - Antrim / Derry, Ire - 1790 to 1850 McKENZIE ~ MADDEN ~ CASSIDY ~ O'NEIL ~ SULLIVAN ~ SHEEHAN IRE Sponsors : MOONEY ~ GREY ~ KENNEDY in USA BALLYMONEY ~ QUEBEC ~ YORK ~ LANCASHIRE ~ GLASGOW ~ BOSTON Greetings All , Primary essential roll call info is on first portion of page 1. Any input greatly appreciated. McKenzie suggest Protestant but family all CATHOLIC since 1874 US & possibly earlier in 18-19th century Ire. May the God of your understanding BLESS YOU. Grandpa Walt "Scot-Ulster-Irish" McKenzie, Sr. Unknown McKENZIE b.c. 1793* (My GGG Grandfather) //BRICKWALL INDIVIDUAL\\ Daniel McKENZIE b.c. 1820* Ire ? John McKENZIE b.c. 1827* Ire ? (My GG Grandfather) (Daniel's Brother or Cousin ? - Farmer**) d.c. 1871*** Ire ? Children m.c. 1846 Mgt. MILLER (Mueller)* James Lloyd b.c.1848-52**&**** Ire Not listed at Groni as Protestant m. m. April 25, 1874 to Mary CASSIDY Ire**. Children (at CATHOLIC Chapel North Rd. York, ENG) BALLYMONEY,*****Ire Children**** Elizabeth b. June1841 or 47****Ire Alice E. 5, John 3, & Mary A. 2m m. None - To BOSTON 1895 James - stone mason**** 1881 & labourer** 1874 John b. Aug 1848 Ire From YORK to LANCASHIRE, ENG 1878-1880 m. 1874 CATH.- Katie MADDEN KEIGHLY / BINGLEY to ACCRINGTON Distrs. Children USA GeorgeThomas b.c.1885-89**GATESHEAD ?,ENG Francis (Frank) Joseph b. 1875 GLASGOW to NY 1907 Residence ANNAN,SCOT John , Jr. b. 1881 CATHOLIC m. 908 BOSTON to Helen MADDEN Daniel Christopher b. 1887 Soc. Secu. 1935 - Age 48 Unemployed - Parents : Joseph b. 1891 JamesLoyd McKENZIE & MaryAnn McKENZIE O'NEIL~SULLIVAN~SHEEHAN Shipper Foreman 1908 & House Painter 1968 BOSTON-SOMERVILLE,MA,USA Children - None ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- * Based on children birth year. ** Children or self m. record. *** Based on son John 1872 arrival in BOSTON via QUEBEC, CANADA. **** Based on children age, b. in 1900 US or 1881 ENG census. ***** Children ship passenger record ; 12 in Ire, likely ANTRIM, Ire. BACKGROUND INFO SCOTS / ULSTER / IRISH - 17-18th CENTURY - Mc PROT. / CATH. - 03 / 06 Scot. - Reformation (1533 Henry VIII) took place post-1560 and during the 600 -1700's (17th -18th century) Scot. transformed itself from Catholicism to Protestantism. In the 1600's there was much upheaval in Scot. In 1702, Scot. was less than 5 % Catholic and concentrated in the NW islands, the Highlands, Aberdeenshire. In 1745, the Episcopalians lost out to the CoS Presbyt. Both Protestant & Catholic Scots men went to Antrim, Ulster, Ire as farmers, builders & blacksmiths and married Irish Catholic women. Even though the Presbyt. were more welcomed than the Catholics, the children were raised Catholic and eventually the whole family assimilating into Irish culture and thus lost their Scots identity. The Irish Clan McSweeny, Clan Donald & O'Neill, originally from Scot., are well-known examples. Many Catholics were given shelter and protected by Sir Randal McDonald, ethically Catholic, in his Glens of Antrim, Ire. These Scots were from Ayrshire & Argyle (McDonald homeland). Ire - During the 16-1700's (17-18th century) Ire was mostly Catholic. LDS Family Search.org list in Ire b. 1688, a James McKenzie of Carnmoney, Co. Antrim and b. 1698, a Rev. John McKenzie (Presbytr. pastor 1673-1696 CoI ?) appeared in Cookstown, Tyrone. In the 1700's, Ire was relatively peaceful until the 1798 Rebellion which brought economic restrictions and less immigration. In 1718, the first wave of Ulster Scots emigrated to America. Also, Presbyt. & Catholic restrictions were starting to be lifted. IRE APPLOMT. TITHES -ANTRIM/DERRY - 1831 - Mc PROT./CATH.-03 / 06 By the 19th century in 1830"s there were substantial presence of Catholic Mc surnames in NI. Upon surveying some of the Antrim / Derry 1830's NI Applotments Tithes records, it is apparent that Mc surnames are approximately 24 % Catholic. The 76 % Protestant are largely Presbyterian. Of the Mc's, none were McKenzie and one was a McKinny. This is expected since US records indicate that my family were poor farmers in Ire and 3 adult males were unemployed in the 1900 census. There were 57 % Mc's families with the identical surname that were split e.g. 67 % or 50 % or 33 % Catholic vs. Protestant. Families remaining all Protestant represented 43 % of the Mc's. It is interesting to note, that all the Miller's were Protestant. The O'Neil's were 17% Catholic. As expected, there were no primarily So. Ire Madden, Cassidy, Sullivan or Sheehan etc. Via the Tithes, the first apparent Catholic McKenzie in Ire, a John McKenzie b.c 1783 in Sligo followed by a John McKenzie b.c. 1824 in Quinn, Co. Clare. In the Ire 1831 Aghadowey, Derry census, 1 Daniel McKensey is listed. Via Griffiths records, one Daniel McKenzie (DM) has been identified in each Cos. Derry (Magherafelt, Leckagh), Tyrone (Donaghmore, Mullaughmore), Mayo (Crossmolina) & Fermanagh (Derrybrusk, Ballyreagh). Other Fermanagh McKenzie family Derryvullan Irvinestown & Tempo. One DM listed in Co. Antrim 1842 Belfast directory as a pub owner living at Donegal Quay. No DM's found in Tithes and the surname McKenzie were Tyrone 30, Antrim 7, Down 2 & Derry 1. Dual surname (McKenzie / Miller) are as follows : Tyrone 18, Belfast 12, Derry 9, Antrim 8, Sligo 4, Down 3, Dublin 3 with 1 each in Fermanagh, Monahan, Laois. Via LDS IGI, one DM each identified in Cos. Donegal, Sligo, Kerry & Limerick. A total of 7 documented DM's in all and as expected all in No. Ire with 4 in Ulster. There are probably a few more DM's, just too poor to be listed on any records. From 1875 to 1908 in the US there is no given name pattern in my McKenzie line that follow Scot or Ire naming pattern. The bad news is ... some will say that one can not trace / find common or average people before 1820. Maybe true for Catholics but, the good news is that this is not true, particularly for Protestants. Protestants are far more likely to be named in some unusual records that they did manage to keep in Ireland before church records. One needs to learn how to find and use these records. First, you need to already have some info on your ancestor. Surnames do not only originated in one place and migrate from there. This is especially true with Me surnames. Secondly, for pre-1860 records, particularly Catholic, one needs to depend heavily on the net and genealogy list, & individuals interaction / interchange, as well as, baptismal records to obtain very difficult brickwall 18th - 19th century data. The best path is via brickwall roll call summaries with key individuals, surnames, places of origin, religion(s), dates with postings at regular intervals. Religion Suggest Protestant Suggest Catholic ------------------------- ----------------------- o McKenzie surname more likely o Daniel's c. 1846 m., not listed as Protestant of Scot. origin. Protestant at GRONI. o Miller surname more likely o John b. Aug.1848 of Ire, m. Katie Protestant of German, English Madden of Ire (single boarder) via a origin. Cath. Mass less than 2 yrs after arriving in Boston. o James b.c. 1848-52 of Ire, m. Mary Cassidy of Ire (single boarder) via Cath. Mass 1874 in Eng. o All 6 US b. McKenzie's 1875-1908 as well as all 1908-2002 were b., m. & d. in Cath. Church and utilized Cath. Homes for children & elderly during early 1900's. o George b. c. 1887 Eng, m. US Cath. Mass 1908 less than 1 yr. after arriving in Boston.

McKENZIE ~ MADDEN ~ CASSIDY ~ O'NEIL ~ SULLIVAN ~ SHEEHAN IRE Sponsors : MOONEY ~ GREY ~ KENNEDY in USA BALLYMONEY ~ QUEBEC ~ YORK ~ LANCASHIRE ~ GLASGOW ~ BOSTON Greetings All , Primary essential roll call info is on first portion of page 1. Any input greatly appreciated. McKenzie suggest Protestant but family all CATHOLIC since 1874 US & possibly earlier in 18-19th century Ire. May the God of your understanding BLESS YOU. Grandpa Walt "Scot-Ulster-Irish" McKenzie, Sr. Unknown McKENZIE b.c. 1793* (My GGG Grandfather) //BRICKWALL INDIVIDUAL\\ Daniel McKENZIE b.c. 1820* Ire ? John McKENZIE b.c. 1827* Ire ? (My GG Grandfather) (Daniel's Brother or Cousin ? - Farmer**) d.c. 1871*** Ire ? Children m.c. 1846 Mgt. MILLER (Mueller)* James Lloyd b.c.1848-52**&**** Ire Not listed at Groni as Protestant m. m. April 25, 1874 to Mary CASSIDY Ire**. Children (at CATHOLIC Chapel North Rd. York, ENG) BALLYMONEY,*****Ire Children**** Elizabeth b. June1841 or 47****Ire Alice E. 5, John 3, & Mary A. 2m m. None - To BOSTON 1895 James - stone mason**** 1881 & labourer** 1874 John b. Aug 1848 Ire From YORK to LANCASHIRE, ENG 1878-1880 m. 1874 CATH.- Katie MADDEN KEIGHLY / BINGLEY to ACCRINGTON Distrs. Children USA GeorgeThomas b.c.1885-89**GATESHEAD ?,ENG Francis (Frank) Joseph b. 1875 GLASGOW to NY 1907 Residence ANNAN,SCOT John , Jr. b. 1881 CATHOLIC m. 908 BOSTON to Helen MADDEN Daniel Christopher b. 1887 Soc. Secu. 1935 - Age 48 Unemployed - Parents : Joseph b. 1891 JamesLoyd McKENZIE & MaryAnn McKENZIE O'NEIL~SULLIVAN~SHEEHAN Shipper Foreman 1908 & House Painter 1968 BOSTON-SOMERVILLE,MA,USA Children - None ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ * Based on children birth year. ** Children or self m. record. *** Based on son John 1872 arrival in BOSTON via QUEBEC, CANADA. **** Based on children age, b. in 1900 US or 1881 ENG census. ***** Children ship passenger record ; 12 in Ire, likely ANTRIM, Ire. BACKGROUND INFO SCOTS / ULSTER / IRISH - 17-18th CENTURY - Mc PROT. / CATH. - 03 / 06 Scot. - Reformation (1533 Henry VIII) took place post-1560 and during the 600 -1700's (17th -18th century) Scot. transformed itself from Catholicism to Protestantism. In the 1600's there was much upheaval in Scot. In 1702, Scot. was less than 5 % Catholic and concentrated in the NW islands, the Highlands, Aberdeenshire. In 1745, the Episcopalians lost out to the CoS Presbyt. Both Protestant & Catholic Scots men went to Antrim, Ulster, Ire as farmers, builders & blacksmiths and married Irish Catholic women. Even though the Presbyt. were more welcomed than the Catholics, the children were raised Catholic and eventually the whole family assimilating into Irish culture and thus lost their Scots identity. The Irish Clan McSweeny, Clan Donald & O'Neill, originally from Scot., are well-known examples. Many Catholics were given shelter and protected by Sir Randal McDonald, ethically Catholic, in his Glens of Antrim, Ire. These Scots were from Ayrshire & Argyle (McDonald homeland). Ire - During the 16-1700's (17-18th century) Ire was mostly Catholic. LDS Family Search.org list in Ire b. 1688, a James McKenzie of Carnmoney, Co. Antrim and b. 1698, a Rev. John McKenzie (Presbytr. pastor 1673-1696 CoI ?) appeared in Cookstown, Tyrone. In the 1700's, Ire was relatively peaceful until the 1798 Rebellion which brought economic restrictions and less immigration. In 1718, the first wave of Ulster Scots emigrated to America. Also, Presbyt. & Catholic restrictions were starting to be lifted. IRE APPLOMT. TITHES -ANTRIM/DERRY - 1831 - Mc PROT./CATH.-03 / 06 By the 19th century in 1830"s there were substantial presence of Catholic Mc surnames in NI. Upon surveying some of the Antrim / Derry 1830's NI Applotments Tithes records, it is apparent that Mc surnames are approximately 24 % Catholic. The 76 % Protestant are largely Presbyterian. Of the Mc's, none were McKenzie and one was a McKinny. This is expected since US records indicate that my family were poor farmers in Ire and 3 adult males were unemployed in the 1900 census. There were 57 % Mc's families with the identical surname that were split e.g. 67 % or 50 % or 33 % Catholic vs. Protestant. Families remaining all Protestant represented 43 % of the Mc's. It is interesting to note, that all the Miller's were Protestant. The O'Neil's were 17% Catholic. As expected, there were no primarily So. Ire Madden, Cassidy, Sullivan or Sheehan etc. Via the Tithes, the first apparent Catholic McKenzie in Ire, a John McKenzie b.c 1783 in Sligo followed by a John McKenzie b.c. 1824 in Quinn, Co. Clare. In the Ire 1831 Aghadowey, Derry census, 1 Daniel McKensey is listed. Via Griffiths records, one Daniel McKenzie (DM) has been identified in each Cos. Derry (Magherafelt, Leckagh), Tyrone (Donaghmore, Mullaughmore), Mayo (Crossmolina) & Fermanagh (Derrybrusk, Ballyreagh). Other Fermanagh McKenzie family Derryvullan Irvinestown & Tempo. One DM listed in Co. Antrim 1842 Belfast directory as a pub owner living at Donegal Quay. No DM's found in Tithes and the surname McKenzie were Tyrone 30, Antrim 7, Down 2 & Derry 1. Dual surname (McKenzie / Miller) are as follows : Tyrone 18, Belfast 12, Derry 9, Antrim 8, Sligo 4, Down 3, Dublin 3 with 1 each in Fermanagh, Monahan, Laois. Via LDS IGI, one DM each identified in Cos. Donegal, Sligo, Kerry & Limerick. A total of 7 documented DM's in all and as expected all in No. Ire with 4 in Ulster. There are probably a few more DM's, just too poor to be listed on any records. From 1875 to 1908 in the US there is no given name pattern in my McKenzie line that follow Scot or Ire naming pattern. The bad news is ... some will say that one can not trace / find common or average people before 1820. Maybe true for Catholics but, the good news is that this is not true, particularly for Protestants. Protestants are far more likely to be named in some unusual records that they did manage to keep in Ireland before church records. One needs to learn how to find and use these records. First, you need to already have some info on your ancestor. Surnames do not only originated in one place and migrate from there. This is especially true with Me surnames. Secondly, for pre-1860 records, particularly Catholic, one needs to depend heavily on the net and genealogy list, & individuals interaction / interchange, as well as, baptismal records to obtain very difficult brickwall 18th - 19th century data. The best path is via brickwall roll call summaries with key individuals, surnames, places of origin, religion(s), dates with postings at regular intervals. Religion Suggest Protestant Suggest Catholic ------------------------- ----------------------- o McKenzie surname more likely o Daniel's c. 1846 m., not listed as Protestant of Scot. origin. Protestant at GRONI. o Miller surname more likely o John b. Aug.1848 of Ire, m. Katie Protestant of German, English Madden of Ire (single boarder) via a origin. Cath. Mass less than 2 yrs after arriving in Boston. o James b.c. 1848-52 of Ire, m. Mary Cassidy of Ire (single boarder) via Cath. Mass 1874 in Eng. o All 6 US b. McKenzie's 1875-1908 as well as all 1908-2002 were b., m. & d. in Cath. Church and utilized Cath. Homes for children & elderly during early 1900's. o George b. c. 1887 Eng, m. US Cath. Mass 1908 less than 1 yr. after arriving in Boston.

Sorry. I meant to save the previous post instead of sending. Was trying to revise and shorten. Rita Addison

I hope I didn't miss anyone. Thank you to everyone who offered insight on the given name Wellington. It is apparent that I need to do a lot more reading. If only the days were 36 hours!!! In any event, thanks again to all who responded. I learned quite a bit. Donna

Greetings all, It was a common practice in the 19th century to name children after famous people or events. When I lived in Penzance in Cornwall, the children of one of my neighbours could never conceal their ages as the boy was called Dardanelles and the girl had another name related to World War I whose name suddenly escapes me, in a flash - another senior moment!!! Children born on board ship or shortly after arrival in Australia were frequently given the name of the ship while others, whose family members had migrated to the States, named their children after the new abode of their relatives, eg Philadelphia despite the child still living in Cornwall!. Cheers Pat Pat Banks Perth Western Australia CFHS 03548 OPC for St.Levan and Mullion, Cornwall Researching: COCK Mullion, Cornwall GEORGE Illogan and Townshend, Cornwall OSBORNE St.Levan, Cornwall POLGLASE Breage and Kerthenwood, Cornwall MAGILL Co.Antrim MAWHINNEY Co. Antrim

> Hi, Rita, > Londonderry NH was settled by a bunch of Presbyterian folks from > Londonderry in Ireland. It was originally named Nutfield. The settlers > came over as a group with their minister, settled and built a church. > Londonderry has a good historical society with a lot of historical > information. Try doing a search on Google and put "Londonderry NH" in the > search box. I live in the town between Londonderry and Goffstown. There > are still some Gotts in this town. The settlers from Londonderry hired a > British man from the Boston area who was well versed in living in the > woods. He came up to Londonderry with them, as I remember the story, to > teach them how to exist in the wilderness. His name was John Goffe > (Goff). He eventually crossed the Merrimack River and built a mill on the > side opposite of Londonderry. That town eventually was named Bedford. He > never actually lived in Goffstown but owned land there that took his name. > > There is plenty of historical writing available on all of these towns and > they all have historical societies. You should be able to find your > information fairly easily. If not, try going to the NH GenWeb site and > put in a query... > > Good luck with your research. > > Regards, > Marilyn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rita Hawthorne" <rhawthorne@cox.net> > To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 4:13 PM > Subject: [Sc-Ir] Surnames (Addison & Gott) > > >>I don't recall if I have posted this to list or not. My ancestors names >>are Addison and Gott. His is Addison and hers is Gott. To my >>understanding, they are Scotch-Irish, who came from Scotland? or Ireland? >> >> They immigrated to Londonderry, New Hampshire in 1751 and then on to >> Goffstown, New Hampshire. I have found their grave stones and have a >> photo. He was a constable there. The lived southern side of the >> Piscataqua River. In the Goffstown History books, I understand that >> almost all of the residents south of the river were Scotch-Irish. >> >> How can I find this out for sure? I only have their year of birth, but >> have the exact date of death. Any help will be appreciated. I really >> need more information. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rita >> >

Thanks all, Rob Doragh, Liverpool UK

As Linda said, it is a pity that you don't give us a context for your Wellington. If it is early 19th Century - say from 1809 to as 1852 I'd try Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington, victor of Waterloo born Dublin 1769, created Viscount Wellington 1809, Duke of Wellington 1814. Wellington was also important because of the Peninsular War. (HE used the name Wellington as his brother already had peerage and he couldn't use the family name. In the same way at suitable times in America you had people with the surname Washington, Grant, Lincoln, so Wellington was a popular hero in his time. If the name is before 1809 I haven't a clue. Hope that this helps Edward Andrews -----Original Message----- From: charles [mailto:jitsu93@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:30 PM To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] given name Wellington Some of my Irish ancestors had Wellington as a middle name. It does appear in the Tithe Aplotment in Dublin, among other places (Donnybrook?). There was a Duke of Wellington and that may be how it was acquired. Charles lmerle@comcast.net wrote: Hi Donna, You don't provide a date and place, which is unfortunate. Up to a point our ancestors tended to adhere to a European naming pattern, often associated by us Brits with the Scots,

Hello Rita, A simple search for family names and locations in Ulster is the Primary Valuation of Ireland better known to all as Griffith's Valuation, taken in the Ulster Counties between 1858 and 1864. It is were most researchers start. I have looked at the index for you. There are 11 Gott families in the Ulster Counties Of these 5 are in Fermanagh John Gott Cleenish John Gott Kinawley Sarah Gott Killesher 2 Thomas Gotts in Cleenish We have a James Gott in Clogher Co Tyrone a Samuel Gott also in Clogher William Gott in the Grange of Muckamore Co Antrim William Gott in Seapatrick County Down and William Gott in Aghadowey County Londonderry There are 17 Addison families of which 16 were to be found in County Antrim and 1 in County Down Of the 17 in County Antrim 12 were in the Parish of Ballinderry. Ballinderry is not far from Muckamore where William Gott was also found. Good luck regards Robert www.ulsterancestry.com >From: lmerle@comcast.net >To: Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] Surnames (Addison & Gott) >Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:05:45 +0000 > >Hi Rita, > >Ireland is a land of immigrants. As far back as we have records, people >were coming there. The Normans came and brought over their Welsh settlers. >You can see Scotland from many places in the coastline. You can see England >further south, high above Drogheda, where parts of Edward the Bruce are >buried in Louth (his head was lugged off to London). You can see see Wales >further south. People went back and forth in boats all the time. Once >people had surnames, they took their surnames with them. > >In addition there were major migrations, several Elizabethan colonies in >Munster that established large numbers of English surnames there. Earlier, >Irish living in the Pale were required to take English style surnames (so >everything with an English surname is not English). Then Cromwell settled >his English army in Ireland in the 1650s. In the 1500s and 1600s various >groups of dispossed Continental Protestants were settled in Ireland: >German, French, Fleming, etc. > >The surname ADDISON is not common in Ulster. How do I know that? I checked >it in Bell "Book of Ulster Surnames". It's not in "The Surnames of >Ireland". It IS in IGI. You know to check IGI? www.familysearch.org. >That's the start of all our searches. It's not surprising that it is there >in small numbers, after all, anyone named Addison from England or Scotland >could have come to Ireland at any time. > >GOTT is German. That doeesn't mean your people didn't come from Ireland. >There were plenty of Germans there, but not large colonies in Ulster. > >The first thing you must do when moving to a new country is learn about >doing genealogy in that country. If you take a beginning Irish genealogy >class you will be told that it is almost impossible to trace average people >(non nobility) before about 1820 when church records begin to become >available. If you haven't heard that yet, it's a sign you need to do some >study of Irish genealogy. > >However it is not entirely true. The majority of Irish people were landless >Catholics who also do not appear in muster lists and the other types of >records we have in the 1700s and earlier. So it can be possible to trace >Protestants if you learn how to do it. > >If we could tell you all you needed to know in an email, we'd all be on the >Scottish email lists, not Ulster <grin>! It's hard. The impossible takes a >little longer and requires more effort. For us that effort is learning. > >If you check the archives you'll find a huge number of posts in the last >week that name the books, etc, that you need to check. Things like Ryan >"Irish Records" that will identify the most obvious sources for >Londonderry. > >The thing you must realize is that there are not likely to be any birth >records. There are some for the Derry Cathedral from the 1600s. They are >published. You can find them in LDS or a library or you can hire someone to >check them for you. Because GOTT is German and Addison is lord knows, >perhaps you will find them in the CHurch of Ireland records. IGI does find >a couple GOTTs in Ulster: Fermanagh and Inniskillen. If this were my >problem I'd spend lots of time poking around on the internet as there are >many things on line. > >The ultimate book is "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research" It can >help you execute standard Irish strategies that will result in success. >Without learning these you will not succeed because the record situation is >extremely different from America. > >As I learned from one of the experts in Salt Lake, with Irish genealogy you >MUST spend one third of your time learning what records exist, one third >figuring out how to get them, and only one third actually viewing records. >Poeple expect to get stuff off the Internet instantly. These people will >not find their Irish ancestors because they're not prepared to do Irish >research. > >If your ancestors married in Ireland, you can execute a strategy of >gathering easy to get records and determining if there is a place where >both GOTT and ADDISON occur, then >going into more deep research in that area. Since neither is a very common >name, this might >yield up some results. I would think any instance of GOTT should be of >interest to you. > >Best of lluck! > >Linda Merle >-------------- Original message -------------- >From: "Rita Hawthorne" <rhawthorne@cox.net> > > > I don't recall if I have posted this to list or not. My ancestors names >are > > Addison and Gott. His is Addison and hers is Gott. To my understanding, >they > > are Scotch-Irish, who came from Scotland? or Ireland? > > > > They immigrated to Londonderry, New Hampshire in 1751 and then on to >Goffstown, > > New Hampshire. I have found their grave stones and have a photo. He was >a > > constable there. The lived southern side of the Piscataqua River. In the > > Goffstown History books, I understand that almost all of the residents >south of > > the river were Scotch-Irish. > > > > How can I find this out for sure? I only have their year of birth, but >have the > > exact date of death. Any help will be appreciated. I really need more > > information. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rita > > > _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

Hi Rita, Ireland is a land of immigrants. As far back as we have records, people were coming there. The Normans came and brought over their Welsh settlers. You can see Scotland from many places in the coastline. You can see England further south, high above Drogheda, where parts of Edward the Bruce are buried in Louth (his head was lugged off to London). You can see see Wales further south. People went back and forth in boats all the time. Once people had surnames, they took their surnames with them. In addition there were major migrations, several Elizabethan colonies in Munster that established large numbers of English surnames there. Earlier, Irish living in the Pale were required to take English style surnames (so everything with an English surname is not English). Then Cromwell settled his English army in Ireland in the 1650s. In the 1500s and 1600s various groups of dispossed Continental Protestants were settled in Ireland: German, French, Fleming, etc. The surname ADDISON is not common in Ulster. How do I know that? I checked it in Bell "Book of Ulster Surnames". It's not in "The Surnames of Ireland". It IS in IGI. You know to check IGI? www.familysearch.org. That's the start of all our searches. It's not surprising that it is there in small numbers, after all, anyone named Addison from England or Scotland could have come to Ireland at any time. GOTT is German. That doeesn't mean your people didn't come from Ireland. There were plenty of Germans there, but not large colonies in Ulster. The first thing you must do when moving to a new country is learn about doing genealogy in that country. If you take a beginning Irish genealogy class you will be told that it is almost impossible to trace average people (non nobility) before about 1820 when church records begin to become available. If you haven't heard that yet, it's a sign you need to do some study of Irish genealogy. However it is not entirely true. The majority of Irish people were landless Catholics who also do not appear in muster lists and the other types of records we have in the 1700s and earlier. So it can be possible to trace Protestants if you learn how to do it. If we could tell you all you needed to know in an email, we'd all be on the Scottish email lists, not Ulster <grin>! It's hard. The impossible takes a little longer and requires more effort. For us that effort is learning. If you check the archives you'll find a huge number of posts in the last week that name the books, etc, that you need to check. Things like Ryan "Irish Records" that will identify the most obvious sources for Londonderry. The thing you must realize is that there are not likely to be any birth records. There are some for the Derry Cathedral from the 1600s. They are published. You can find them in LDS or a library or you can hire someone to check them for you. Because GOTT is German and Addison is lord knows, perhaps you will find them in the CHurch of Ireland records. IGI does find a couple GOTTs in Ulster: Fermanagh and Inniskillen. If this were my problem I'd spend lots of time poking around on the internet as there are many things on line. The ultimate book is "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research" It can help you execute standard Irish strategies that will result in success. Without learning these you will not succeed because the record situation is extremely different from America. As I learned from one of the experts in Salt Lake, with Irish genealogy you MUST spend one third of your time learning what records exist, one third figuring out how to get them, and only one third actually viewing records. Poeple expect to get stuff off the Internet instantly. These people will not find their Irish ancestors because they're not prepared to do Irish research. If your ancestors married in Ireland, you can execute a strategy of gathering easy to get records and determining if there is a place where both GOTT and ADDISON occur, then going into more deep research in that area. Since neither is a very common name, this might yield up some results. I would think any instance of GOTT should be of interest to you. Best of lluck! Linda Merle -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Rita Hawthorne" <rhawthorne@cox.net> > I don't recall if I have posted this to list or not. My ancestors names are > Addison and Gott. His is Addison and hers is Gott. To my understanding, they > are Scotch-Irish, who came from Scotland? or Ireland? > > They immigrated to Londonderry, New Hampshire in 1751 and then on to Goffstown, > New Hampshire. I have found their grave stones and have a photo. He was a > constable there. The lived southern side of the Piscataqua River. In the > Goffstown History books, I understand that almost all of the residents south of > the river were Scotch-Irish. > > How can I find this out for sure? I only have their year of birth, but have the > exact date of death. Any help will be appreciated. I really need more > information. > > Thanks, > > Rita >

Ancestry has both Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-508137-4 and First Name: A Dictionary of First Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0192800507 Appears that the source is Reany and Wilson since this it was it says: English: habitational name from any of the three places named Wellington, in Herefordshire, Shropshire, and Somerset. All are most probably named with an unattested Old English personal name Wçola + -ing- (implying association with) + tûn ‘settlement’. http://www.ancestry.com/search/SurnamePage.aspx?html=b&ln=Wellington&sourcecode=13304 Very typical of early German settlements, named after the founder: Wella's settlement. All early occurances are in the south of England. The Pedigree Resource instance in "Carlisle, Cumberland, Scotland" was added by someone who didn't even know that Carlisle is in England, as is the county of Cumberland. This is not a person to believe anything they say. I hope none of you bought a bridge from this person. If he/she didn't bother to check the country of Carlisle, what else didn't he/she check? Very embarrassing for that person. Maybe they asked on an internet list and someone who didn't know told them Carlisle was in Cumberland County, Scotland. And they didn't bother to check. How very very foolish. Linda Merle

Hi Donna, You don't provide a date and place, which is unfortunate. Up to a point our ancestors tended to adhere to a European naming pattern, often associated by us Brits with the Scots, but the English, IRish, Welsh, Germans, French, etc, also used it, all breaking away at different times. So my great grandmother's middle name was Grant. Was there a Grant in her past? NO! I think she was named after a political figure. Use of Wellington as a first name suggests that this is a surname, often on the mother's side. It's a clue. It's not a smoking gun. If you watch a lot of TV then you know that a clue may not be what it first appears to be. Don't jump to conclusions too fast or you'll hang the wrong man. If you'd slumbered through a linguistics class, you'd know immediately this is not an Irish name. You might have killed a few listers who fell off their chairs laughing <grin>. The only use I've found for my linguistics class is genealogy! That -ton is a dead giveaway. Here we have an English placename. It is first documented, according to "A Dictionary of English Surnames" by Reaney and Wilson, in 1209. Many, many, many English have gone to Ireland, taking along their surnames. One way to quickly determine if the surname is known in Ireland is to check IGI and related sources at www.familysearch.org . If you search for the surname in Ireland you will find it, but that does not mean it is "Scotch Irish". It means it is a surname in Ireland. It's not clear what you mean by "Scotch Irish"? Protestants in Ireland? Protestants of Scottish descent in Ireland? In order to be of Scots origin in Ireland, you must find it in Scotland. Check for it in the same source in Scotland. You will find a few. It's important to recall that English was spoken in Edinburgh LONG before London. LOTS of Angles settled in Scotland, so there are plenty of English surnames and English placenames. In addition, plenty of English came to Scotland in the Middle Ages, invited by the Scottish kings as feudal landlords who would owe allegiance to the kings. Like the Bruces. Donno about this surname. If you are try ing to pin point a country in the UK where to search for people of this name, try England, Scotland, and Ireland. It is not going to help. It is not a clue to the origin of the family, but if you pursue the clue, you may find evidence of their homeland. Best of luck! Linda Merle -------------- Original message -------------- From: "D.C." <kinshipmatters@twmi.rr.com> > Hi all. Does anyone know if the first name "Wellington" has Scotch-Irish > background or is it only Irish or where it comes from? I just wondered if > this could give me any clues. > > > > Donna > > - Just fishin' without a fish pole. > >

hi all....my rels named the first child born after arriving in the u.s. benjamin franklin murphy...something I remember hearing as a child..which certainly made it easier to find the family among all the john murphys in boston...and preferable to naming him manitoba after they ship they arrived on...later children had buick and melville as middle names..not sure of the reference there as they were not family names...