Hi Mardi, Anglican, eh? That fits with Fermanagh. Do you know who settled in Fermanagh? The border clans who were fleeing from King James in the early 1600s. I know these days we think of Scots as Presbyterian but it was a regional religion in the 1600s. Most of the highland clans were still Catholic. The borders were always place of its own. Many borders were Catholic. In fact the borders were the stronghold of English Catholicism for a very long time. Many of the 'big families' were Catholic. In any case there were very few churches -- the parish system only existed on paper and in towns. So when they settled in Fermanagh the border Scots became Anglican. Or Catholic. Fermanagh even today has many more Anglicans than Presbyterians. How to learn more? I think if you check the webpages we got some sites: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~merle . LDS has its free guide (www.familysearch.org). If you type www.google.com and then Irish genealogy you'll come up with lots of very good information. Try the Fianna site for example (google for it), and PRONI has huge amounts of info. I always have to google for it but I think that's www.proni.gov.uk . There's a great book about the folk culture of Fermanagh, "Passing the Time in Ballymenone" by Henry Glassie, I think it is. linda merle -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Mardi Carlson" <cmc@hutchtel.net> > Linda > I did leave out religion shame on me. They were Anglican (Church of > England) in Canada. In one census in Canada one of the family members was > listed as Methodist. > > Do you have a good or even great online site to learn about Irish Genealogy? > I understand very little, but have picked up on a few things from listening > on the lists. > > Mardi > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] New to List (researching Beatty) > > > > Hi Mardi and welcome to the list! > > > > You have traced your ancestors back to a specific place in Ireland and > > apparently you are wanting to know what to do next??? > > > > Probably two things. One is to continue gathering info about them in > > Canada in order to develop a good profile. Just like on TV when looking > > for a killer the more you know the more likely you are to bag your man. > > > > The second thing to do is learn how to do Irish genealogy. That's really > > critical because Ireland's records are very different from other > > countries. > > > > You might also grab a book or so to learn how to leverage your Scottish > > connection too. Scotland does have good records and by using the censuses > > and civil registration (as well as OPRs) you can locate other family > > members who might have additional info on the family in Ireland. > > > > I have two lines of Beatties, one on each side. My father's were Scottish > > border Beatties who headed up the east coast of Scotland in the early > > 1600s and eventually settled in Polmont in the 1830s. My mother's side > > entered the Irish army in the mid 1600s from Ayrshire and settled in > > Ireland due to the Williamite settlement. There were two brothers who were > > officers in King WIlliam's army. The one is well documented in Egle's PA > > genealogies. He settled in County Down where he had 15 children, > > populating the planet with Beatties. Mine was in Antrim. We left in 1729, > > settling in New York area where there were Ulster Scots. > > > > However if you check "The Scots-Irish" you'll see that native Beatties > > were given small estates in Cavan (I think it was) at the start of the > > public plantation. They lost these by the Williamite Settlement. These > > ones were Catholic. Religion is key here and one of the things you've not > > shared. > > > > You can get a fair amount of local history in Fermanagh, depending on > > where they were, that might give you an idea where yours originated: as > > native Irish or Scots settlers. > > > > You can locate Irish county resources in various books like Ryan's "Irish > > Records", but a check of the Tithe Applotment index on CD will give you a > > free two second idea of where in Fermanagh that Beatties lived and also > > give you an idea of how common or uncommon the name "James Beattie" was. > > > > Linda Merle > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > From: "Mardi Carlson" > > > >> Hi everyone, > >> I am new to list. I am looking for any info on these people or how to > >> find > >> the info on theses People. Any help appreciated. > >> > >> James Beatty b. c. 1786 Co. Fermanagh never married in Ireland, He was a > >> school teacher in Ireland before he immigrated to New Brunswick Canada in > >> 1818 and married in 1820's. > >> > >> Brothers: > >> William Beatty married Lucy they immigrated to New Brunswick Canada in > >> 1816. > >> > >> John Beatty had a son named Benjamin. Location unknown. > >> > >> Benjamin Beatty possible he died near Portpatrick Scotland before 1852. > >> > >> Sisters: > >> Esther Beatty married a Mayne and living in Portpatrick in 1852. > >> > >> Esther Beatty married a Brown and was living near Brooksborough, Co. > >> Fermanagh in 1852. > >> > >> My gggrandfather William would be a son of one of James brothers, as he > >> was his nephew. William b. c.1803 in Ireland married Margaret and had 4 > >> kids namely Robert, James, Thomas and John before emigrating from Ireland > >> to > >> New Brunswick, Canada in 1836. > >> > >> In 1836 two other Beatty's immigrated to New Brunswick a Catherine Beatty > >> and a Thomas Jasper Beatty. Thomas Jasper and William settled in the same > >> area Kings County, NB and both attended the same church. I am under the > >> assumption that they must of been relatives. Thomas Jasper was b. 1803 in > >> Ireland. I do not know if they were brothers or cousins, or if it was > >> just > >> a big coincedence. But hightly doubt the later. > >> > >> Any Suggestions on what to try next??? > >> Mardi > >> > > > > > > >

Hi Mardi! My 2X g-grandfather James Plumstead III, moved from England to Canada in mid 19th c. In the Canadian census and he was listed as CoE, and Weslyan Meth. His death cert listed CoE. So it may not be unusual for both to be listed. His grandfather James I was a Congretaional Minister in Yorkshire/Lincolnshire England. There were ties between that church and the Methodists. Any way that is my two cents, which by todays inflation may be worthless. Forrest Plumstead fplum1@gmail.com Researching the following Surnames: Bushouse, Plumstead, Risser, Schroeder, Senne, Thayer, Quaker Families: Coppock, Heald, Hobson, Hollingsworth, Potts, Ross, Watt Plumstead and Associated Families: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum/ Military Kool Lynx: http://geocities.com/fplum/ Ham Radio WB5HQO http://forrest.3h.com/main.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mardi Carlson" <cmc@hutchtel.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] New to List (researching Beatty) > Linda > I did leave out religion shame on me. They were Anglican (Church of > England) in Canada. In one census in Canada one of the family members was > listed as Methodist. > > Do you have a good or even great online site to learn about Irish > Genealogy? > I understand very little, but have picked up on a few things from > listening on the lists. > > Mardi > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <lmerle@comcast.net> > To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] New to List (researching Beatty) > > >> Hi Mardi and welcome to the list! >> >> You have traced your ancestors back to a specific place in Ireland and >> apparently you are wanting to know what to do next??? >> >> Probably two things. One is to continue gathering info about them in >> Canada in order to develop a good profile. Just like on TV when looking >> for a killer the more you know the more likely you are to bag your man. >> >> The second thing to do is learn how to do Irish genealogy. That's really >> critical because Ireland's records are very different from other >> countries. >> >> You might also grab a book or so to learn how to leverage your Scottish >> connection too. Scotland does have good records and by using the censuses >> and civil registration (as well as OPRs) you can locate other family >> members who might have additional info on the family in Ireland. >> >> I have two lines of Beatties, one on each side. My father's were Scottish >> border Beatties who headed up the east coast of Scotland in the early >> 1600s and eventually settled in Polmont in the 1830s. My mother's side >> entered the Irish army in the mid 1600s from Ayrshire and settled in >> Ireland due to the Williamite settlement. There were two brothers who >> were officers in King WIlliam's army. The one is well documented in >> Egle's PA genealogies. He settled in County Down where he had 15 >> children, populating the planet with Beatties. Mine was in Antrim. We >> left in 1729, settling in New York area where there were Ulster Scots. >> >> However if you check "The Scots-Irish" you'll see that native Beatties >> were given small estates in Cavan (I think it was) at the start of the >> public plantation. They lost these by the Williamite Settlement. These >> ones were Catholic. Religion is key here and one of the things you've not >> shared. >> >> You can get a fair amount of local history in Fermanagh, depending on >> where they were, that might give you an idea where yours originated: as >> native Irish or Scots settlers. >> >> You can locate Irish county resources in various books like Ryan's "Irish >> Records", but a check of the Tithe Applotment index on CD will give you a >> free two second idea of where in Fermanagh that Beatties lived and also >> give you an idea of how common or uncommon the name "James Beattie" was. >> >> Linda Merle >> -------------- Original message -------------- >> From: "Mardi Carlson" <cmc@hutchtel.net> >> >>> Hi everyone, >>> I am new to list. I am looking for any info on these people or how to >>> find >>> the info on theses People. Any help appreciated. >>> >>> James Beatty b. c. 1786 Co. Fermanagh never married in Ireland, He was a >>> school teacher in Ireland before he immigrated to New Brunswick Canada >>> in >>> 1818 and married in 1820's. >>> >>> Brothers: >>> William Beatty married Lucy they immigrated to New Brunswick Canada in >>> 1816. >>> >>> John Beatty had a son named Benjamin. Location unknown. >>> >>> Benjamin Beatty possible he died near Portpatrick Scotland before 1852. >>> >>> Sisters: >>> Esther Beatty married a Mayne and living in Portpatrick in 1852. >>> >>> Esther Beatty married a Brown and was living near Brooksborough, Co. >>> Fermanagh in 1852. >>> >>> My gggrandfather William would be a son of one of James brothers, as he >>> was his nephew. William b. c.1803 in Ireland married Margaret and had 4 >>> kids namely Robert, James, Thomas and John before emigrating from >>> Ireland to >>> New Brunswick, Canada in 1836. >>> >>> In 1836 two other Beatty's immigrated to New Brunswick a Catherine >>> Beatty >>> and a Thomas Jasper Beatty. Thomas Jasper and William settled in the >>> same >>> area Kings County, NB and both attended the same church. I am under the >>> assumption that they must of been relatives. Thomas Jasper was b. 1803 >>> in >>> Ireland. I do not know if they were brothers or cousins, or if it was >>> just >>> a big coincedence. But hightly doubt the later. >>> >>> Any Suggestions on what to try next??? >>> Mardi >>> >> >> >> >

Hi Linda! It's been a long time since we chatted. I wonder would there be a tithe applotmant book around the time of my 8X g-grandfather Francis HOBSON and of Valentine HOLLINGSWORTH, in the early 17th c? As you know, Francis was tried convicted and jailed for not paying tithe and Valentine had his crops regularly raided by the King's tax collectors. I am always looking for additional details about the death of my 8X g-grandfather. Thank you Forrest Plumstead fplum1@gmail.com Researching the following Surnames: Bushouse, Plumstead, Risser, Schroeder, Senne, Thayer, Quaker Families: Coppock, Heald, Hobson, Hollingsworth, Potts, Ross, Watt Plumstead and Associated Families: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fplum/ Military Kool Lynx: http://geocities.com/fplum/ Ham Radio WB5HQO http://forrest.3h.com/main.html ----- Original Message ----- From: <lmerle@comcast.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] tithe applotment books > Hi Marilyn, > > In the 1820s in Ireland (or anywhere in the UK) there was no separation of > church and state. The established church, as it had done in the days when > it was Catholic, as it continued to due after the Reformation(s) (ie the > one imposed by Henry VIII in England and Ireland and the one begun in > Scotland by John Knox). Poor and sick people needed to be fed and cared > for. Roads needed maintained. Petty court cases needed to be heard. The > blasphemous, the adulterers, and other immoral types had to be dealt with > lest God hold the whole nation responsible as it went merrily on its way > to H*** and He did something like let the Spanish or the French invade. > Plus you had to raise money to support all this. And you had to probate > wills. The church was already doing these things okay through the parish > system. > > So in 1820 everyone paid tithes to the established church to not only feed > the Vicar's fat cat and refinish the chapel, but also to feed the poor and > the sick, etc. > As time has passed modernism eroded away at the importance of the parish > (and the church) so that by 1820 the whole system was a pale shadow of its > medieval self. The big problem was Ireland where the majority of peop;le > were not established church members and greatly resented having to help > feed the Vicar's cat or even himself for that matter. There are various > stories of vicars > in Ulster where the only being to show up at his Sunday sermon was his > cat. > The Catholics were at the Mass Rock and the Presbyterians were off in a > field > or a barn. > > Obviously the very poor didn't tithe. They were the recipients of tithes. > It was basically a land tax so if your ancestors were servants they aren't > on it. Also the church owned a lot of real estate. It's tenants had > already paid their tithes as rent. > > For more details you can see pp 264 and on in "Discovering your Irish > Ancestors". You can google and find more too. > > It's not just a matter of what's "IN" them but how you use them. If you > know your ancestors were somewhere and they aren't in them, it suggests a > number of things, for example. > > Radford and Betitt point out (p. 265) that not even every land occupier > was in them, just those who had to pay tithe. cottiers and farm servants, > no. Sometimes a single person was the designated tithe payer so others > aren't named. In one study in County Cavan, it was found that 35 percent > of the people in the parish were named in it. > > Back on the 'it's not a matter of what's in them but how you can use them, > they can be used to study surname distribution in Ireland. This is very > useful because it is Pre Famine. Griffiths is not. > > The book I have mentioned gives a study of a case where the info is not > straightforward. Very useful for peopel who think it is a matter of a > lookup. > > LDS has a great guide on them. I have personally found that every time I > use it I need to reread this and to do some thinking. This was truer > before we had the modern indexes but the modern indexes (on CD) have large > errors. > > Best of luck!! > > Linda Merle > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Marilyn Otterson" <rosiedoggie@verizon.net> > >> Hi, >> Can somebody tell me exactly what the tithe applotment books, 1828-1838 >> can >> tell us...I mean, they show names and townlands, but is it for church >> tithing or what? >> >> Thanks, >> Marilyn >> >

Hi Nelda, Unfortunately the information that I have and the information you have is inconclusive. None of it is enough to establish that a John Beatty, b. in Ayrshire fought in King William's Army. All we have for this is secondary information. Egle is not a primary source. Neither are county history. These are clues that should be verified but so far, they've not been, that I am aware of. This stuff: > They lived in the Scottish lowlands in the Dalbeattie area That was where there was a large Beatty clan. There is no evidence that the ones named in this unproven lineage were from there or lived there. Zilch. In my own case there's a further problem with New York/PA link that needs resolved. I do have some research that I gathered but I cannot share it yet because the research is not quite complete. I often use this line as an example of how learning about the records and the time and place assists. I was once spammed by a man with a huge attachment of all the "John Beatties" in the muster lists of the early 1600s in Ireland. He had concluded it was impossible to identify which was the one he sought. However he didn't realize that IF the John Beattie we seek WAS an officer in the Irish army at the time, he wasn't mustered in. Two reasons, the first rather bogus...IF he was born and raised in Scotland, as the story goes, then he wasn't living in Ireland to be mustered at all. The second one is the better: officers weren't mustered in bought bought commissions usually. (They still might be named on muster lists of course). A search of surviving lists of officiers revealed one and only one John Beatty and he served with a fellow officer surnamed Clinton. However it still must be proven that this John is the John that is sought, who lived in Antrim, etc etc. No James. The James who stayed is easier to document because he did stay. There seems little doubt that he was living in Down and shedding descendents into a small area of Pennsylvania (which overflowed rapidly). For several years now I've been busy working for a client and have not done any personal research. I do have some information that is like bricks. I need to get a couple more bricks and add mortar to make the wall or build the case. Until I do the info I have will stay on my disk because if I let it out it'll be buried in dreck and/or become the gospel truth, and it's not. Unfortunately there's a lot of stuff of mine 'out there' that is not proven but totally speculative and I don't want to add to the poop I'm responsible for <grin>. I might also add if I do figure it out I'm going to publish it in a real magazine and leave it to cousins to find it as revenge <grin>. I can't think of anything meaner!! A couple problems we all have here is that the soldiers in King William's Army at not known. The more prominant members of King James' are published, but not King Williams, as near as I can tell. They may lie buried in Kew Garden in the WO category. Some may be identified in English and Irish gov. records though a lot of the Irish gov papers were destroyed in 1922. There may be some that were copied out before hand and exist in a secondary collection in the UK. I got a list of a couple libraries to check in Ulster next time I'm back as well. I would expect that PRO would be more fruitful. Another problem is that many OPRs were destroyed for the area of Scotland they supposedly came from and are very incomplete in the early 1600s anyway. If these two brothers were able to buy commissions in the army they were well off. They may have been younger sons of a landed family and/or a merchant family (the officer I found might have merchant connections). Or an unlanded but gentle family with a little cash. So they might be named in a Scottish will or testament (these are two different things). With no sign of an officer named James, the received family info kinda 'breaks down'. So do the records...the Protestants were purged from the army in the years leading up to the 1690s. Comfortingly for those who believe they were Protestants, John disappears too, but where's James? Donno. Need to spend a lot of time 1. studying early British military records and 2. finding them in PRO, PRONI, and the NAI (etc). I've not had time to do that research. They weren't officers in James' army (always good to check!). A third problem of course is the difficulty of finding traces of a man who left Antrim in 1729 and apparently wasn't there for long. Some data gathered. Maybe same data everyone else has. Not done gathering data so not time to make decision. There's a DNA study of border clans that should be of interest to all Beatties who think their ancestors came from there. However it's highly unlikely they did as I do know based on personal research that the surname is rather indiginous to Ireland as alledged in some of the legends (O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees"). I do hope everything in O'Hart is right because I love thinking I descend from some 'prince' who fought at Clontarf on the right side <grin>, even though he too is unfindable. Just think of the novels we can write..... Sorry to open my big mouth -- I too harbor fantasies about this line but until my sister and I do resolve the difficulties of our own connection to it, we won't be showing up at any family reunions. Probably our family is related but if I mention why I think so on this list it'll become gospel -- and it's not. It's possible we're not though more likely we are, but all it takes is another trip up the pike to show we're not. There's a lot of nonsense published on the Clinton line too -- O'Brien claimed they were native Irish, but he's incorrect and I think I can prove it, kinda. They were displaced from the earldom of Lincolnshire during the British Civil War. That line has a fascinating connection with English Puritans in the early 1600s and appear to have financed the Mass Bay Colony (I think....maybe next time I review my data I may have second thoughts). So if they leaned in that direction, it becomes clearer why after the Restoration, the grandson was unable to get the earldom restored to them. Also I once found a fascinating article that told a story about how I think it was DeWitt Clinton, sealed the New York state documents right after the Revolution with his signet ring, that he knew was the ring of the earl of Lincolnshire. Of course the British had 2 Clinton generals on their side and the US also had two.... One of the British Clintons then learned that they were related to these American Clintons, the long lost family line....Donno if it is true or not...and it mighta been one of the two American Clintons that used the ring, not Dewitt.... I'm just free associating, not opening files or checking any documentation. The Clintons left the Beatties in the dust very fast in Newburgh. Had no time for those over religious semi relatives. However I do love the story of John's widow entertaining Ptown with her Irish harp in 1729. Also the Rev. Charles Clinton Beatty, when he returned to England looking for a cure for his wife's breast cancer (he shoulda tried Lourdes: she died) attended the coronation of King George! How embarrassing <grin>. I don't even recall where I found this gem but it's on a piece of paper in this huge pile I must organize and file after I finish this book project for my client in the next few weeks. Why am I organized with my clients' stuff and such a slob with my own??? If I only had some Clinton genes I mighta made something of myself <grin>....but I'm just another grouchy Beattie, twice over. My "stayed in Scotland" ones were also religious fanatics (Wee Freers) and near as I can tell, grouchy too. Linda Merle

It is very difficult to sort out records two or three hundred years or more. I was reading an article from Ancestory.com about the numbers of people who would need to be living in the days when my folks were around. Should be in the millions that are just my relatives. Turns out not true. If you have cousins marrying cousins, your numbers drop considerably. Here is the work of someone who has more information on the roots. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jeanmccarthy36/ I didn't ask permission to pass the url on so I hope it is okay or at least passable. Word of caution on Notes and Queries from Engle. They aren't entirely accurate. I have several family mentions and some of the burials dates aren't accurate with the church burial records. My gggrandfather's was off by ten years. Lastly, could people please clean off the bottoms of your replies and change the subject words? I get the digest and some run to 15-20 pages. Uses bandwidth to send. Thanks for the opportunity to stick in my two cents. Jo Ann Baxley

Harrisburg is the capitol of Pennsylvania. Diane Klopp > from Genealogical Record of the families of Beatty, Egle, Muller, Murray > Orth and Thomas by William Henry Egle, MD MA dated 1886. > Harrisburg: Hart Printer and Binder, 1886 > > I'm not related to any Beatties as far as I know but I am related to > HART, so I'm wondering about this Hart. Where is the Harrisburg > mentioned? Do you have any other suggestions about how I might learn > about this Hart Printer and Binder? > thanks, > Karen Hart Anthony

Hello, There was at least one BEATTY / BEATTIE family in Argenteuil Co., Quebec Prov., in the early 1800's. I just went to check the archives of the List for "the former township of Gore" (in Argenteuil), and someone thought their BEATTIE came from County Cavan or nearby it ! While looking at the archives, I was reminded that a couple years ago I saw that a BEATTY surname project had been started. I saw it on the List for County Sligo, Ireland ! This is just an FYI for anyone who is interested ! Betty (near Lowell, MA, USA) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mardi Carlson" <cmc@hutchtel.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] New to List (researching Beatty) > Thanks to all of you who anwered offlist and onlist. I much appreciate > the advice. > > Mardi > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <lmerle@comcast.net> > To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] New to List (researching Beatty) > > >> Hi Mardi and welcome to the list! >> >> You have traced your ancestors back to a specific place in Ireland and >> apparently you are wanting to know what to do next??? >> >> Probably two things. One is to continue gathering info about them in >> Canada in order to develop a good profile. Just like on TV when looking >> for a killer the more you know the more likely you are to bag your man. >> >> The second thing to do is learn how to do Irish genealogy. That's really >> critical because Ireland's records are very different from other >> countries. >> >> You might also grab a book or so to learn how to leverage your Scottish >> connection too. Scotland does have good records and by using the censuses >> and civil registration (as well as OPRs) you can locate other family >> members who might have additional info on the family in Ireland. >> >> I have two lines of Beatties, one on each side. My father's were Scottish >> border Beatties who headed up the east coast of Scotland in the early >> 1600s and eventually settled in Polmont in the 1830s. My mother's side >> entered the Irish army in the mid 1600s from Ayrshire and settled in >> Ireland due to the Williamite settlement. There were two brothers who >> were officers in King WIlliam's army. The one is well documented in >> Egle's PA genealogies. He settled in County Down where he had 15 >> children, populating the planet with Beatties. Mine was in Antrim. We >> left in 1729, settling in New York area where there were Ulster Scots. >> >> However if you check "The Scots-Irish" you'll see that native Beatties >> were given small estates in Cavan (I think it was) at the start of the >> public plantation. They lost these by the Williamite Settlement. These >> ones were Catholic. Religion is key here and one of the things you've not >> shared. >> >> You can get a fair amount of local history in Fermanagh, depending on >> where they were, that might give you an idea where yours originated: as >> native Irish or Scots settlers. >> >> You can locate Irish county resources in various books like Ryan's "Irish >> Records", but a check of the Tithe Applotment index on CD will give you a >> free two second idea of where in Fermanagh that Beatties lived and also >> give you an idea of how common or uncommon the name "James Beattie" was. >> >> Linda Merle >> -------------- Original message -------------- >> From: "Mardi Carlson" <cmc@hutchtel.net> >> >>> Hi everyone, >>> I am new to list. I am looking for any info on these people or how to >>> find >>> the info on theses People. Any help appreciated. >>> >>> James Beatty b. c. 1786 Co. Fermanagh never married in Ireland, He was a >>> school teacher in Ireland before he immigrated to New Brunswick Canada >>> in >>> 1818 and married in 1820's. >>> >>> Brothers: >>> William Beatty married Lucy they immigrated to New Brunswick Canada in >>> 1816. >>> >>> John Beatty had a son named Benjamin. Location unknown. >>> >>> Benjamin Beatty possible he died near Portpatrick Scotland before 1852. >>> >>> Sisters: >>> Esther Beatty married a Mayne and living in Portpatrick in 1852. >>> >>> Esther Beatty married a Brown and was living near Brooksborough, Co. >>> Fermanagh in 1852. >>> >>> My gggrandfather William would be a son of one of James brothers, as he >>> was his nephew. William b. c.1803 in Ireland married Margaret and had 4 >>> kids namely Robert, James, Thomas and John before emigrating from >>> Ireland to >>> New Brunswick, Canada in 1836. >>> >>> In 1836 two other Beatty's immigrated to New Brunswick a Catherine >>> Beatty >>> and a Thomas Jasper Beatty. Thomas Jasper and William settled in the >>> same >>> area Kings County, NB and both attended the same church. I am under the >>> assumption that they must of been relatives. Thomas Jasper was b. 1803 >>> in >>> Ireland. I do not know if they were brothers or cousins, or if it was >>> just >>> a big coincedence. But hightly doubt the later. >>> >>> Any Suggestions on what to try next??? >>> Mardi >>> >> >> >> > > ______________________________

Nelda, you say below: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Genealogical Record of the families of Beatty, Egle, Muller, Murray Orth and Thomas by William Henry Egle, MD MA dated 1886. Harrisburg: Hart Printer and Binder, 1886 I'm not related to any Beatties as far as I know but I am related to HART, so I'm wondering about this Hart. Where is the Harrisburg mentioned? Do you have any other suggestions about how I might learn about this Hart Printer and Binder? thanks, Karen Hart Anthony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nelda Percival" <nelda_percival@hotmail.com> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] New to List (researching Beatty) > Hi Linda, > I have been a member of this list for about 6 months now... BUT! > Wow Just reading your email addressed to Mardi, who I know from another > set of lists, and saw your entry > My mother's side entered the Irish army in the mid 1600s from Ayrshire and > settled in Ireland due to the Williamite settlement. There were two > brothers who were officers in King WIlliam's army. The one is well > documented in Egle's PA genealogies. He settled in County Down where he > had 15 children, populating the planet with Beatties. Mine was in Antrim. > We left in 1729, settling in New York area where there were Ulster Scots. > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > LOL I'm just jumping up and down... I'm sure we share the Beatty lineage.. > > > 1st Generation > > 1. John Beatty was born 1587 in Scotland. He married Margaret Thompson > 1619 in Scotland. > > Children of John Beatty and Margaret Thompson: > i. 2. James Beatty was born 1620. > ii. 3. John Beatty was born 1621 in Ayrshire, Scotland. > iii. 4. Henry Beatty was born 1623. > iv. 5. Patrick Beatty was born 1625. > > Notes on John Beatty > the next two generations comes from Larry Cornwell > contact at: LaCornwell@@@aol.com > BEATTY > Introduction > According to the biography of the Honorable John P. Beatty of Jasper > County, Iowa, published in the Portrait and Biographical Record of Jasper, > Marshall, and Grundy Counties, Iowa in 1894, "The Beatty family is of > Scotch ancestry, and was prominently connected with the Presbyterian > Church in Scotland prior to the religious revolution, but at that time > they left the country and settled in the North of Ireland." The first two > generations, below, are undocumented and unproven. > ~~~~~~~~ > They lived in the Scottish lowlands in the Dalbeattie area > ~~~~~~~~ > John and Jane existed as individuals, but the proof that they were the > parents of John and James has not been discovered. They may have been the > parents of James and John, identified below. > According to research of Marlene K. Smith, "After the battle of Boyne in > 1690, John and his two sons, John and James, left Scotland along with a > large influx of Scottish families for the northern counties of Ireland." > (Note..First time I have heard that John Beatty, wife Jane Ross, father of > John and James moved to Ireland with his sons...nlp) > ~~~~~~~~ > > 2nd Generation (Children) > > 2. James Beatty (John1) was born 1620. > 3. John Beatty (John1) was born 1621 in Ayrshire, Scotland. He married > Jane Ross About 1664 in Scotland. She was born in Scotland . > Other events in the life of John Beatty > Fact 1 : BP2000 - L- 5 > Fact 2 : source: Engle in Egle as source > > Children of John Beatty and Jane Ross: > i. 6. John Beatty was born About 1665 in Ayrshire Scotland and died 1729 > in lived in County Antrim,Ireland. > ii. 7. James Beatty was born About 1670 in Ayrshire, Scotland and died > 1745 in Hillsborough-Ballykeel-Ednagonnel, Co Down, IRE. > > Notes on John Beatty > FA2: Place: BEATTY PROJECT 2000--LINEAGE #5 source: Egal Book; Copied > from a message from Helen, dated 27 Dec 03 > she can be contacted at hmackain at aol.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > from Genealogical Record of the families of Beatty, Egle, Muller, Murray > Orth and Thomas by William Henry Egle, MD MA dated 1886. > Harrisburg: Hart Printer and Binder, 1886 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Carol Haskins provided part of his record she can be contacted at > lorac 0903 at yahoo.com delete spaces and use symbol instead of word at.. > > Notes > _FA2: Place: BEATTY PROJECT 2000--LINEAGE #5 ®997 > > 4. Henry Beatty (John1) was born 1623. > > 5. Patrick Beatty (John1) was born 1625. > > 3rd Generation (Grandchildren) > > 6. John Beatty (John2, John1) was born About 1665 in Ayrshire Scotland and > died 1729 in lived in County Antrim,Ireland. He married 1st Elise Ross > Before 1705 . She died Before 1715 in probably in childbirth of > Arthur-1714, daughter of John Ross and First name unk. Ross, maiden name > unk.. He married 2nd Christiana Clinton 1714 in Northern Ireland. She was > born 1685/86 and died 1776/77 in New York City, NY Co., NY, daughter of > James Clinton and First name unk. Clinton, maiden name unk.. > Other events in the life of John Beatty > Occupation : Officer in Brittish Army > Education : Lived in Antrim, Ireland > > Other events in the life of Christiana Clinton > Education : Aunt of John Clinton first Governor of New York. > > > Children of John Beatty and Elise Ross: > i. 8. Elsie Beatty was born About 1705 and died in probably enroute to > America. > ii. 9. James Beatty was born After 1705. > iii. 10. John (Jr.) Beatty was born After 1705 and died in on board ship > between Ireland and America. > iv. 11. William Beatty was born After 1705 and died in probably enroute > to America. > v. 12. Robert Thomas Beattie was born 1707 in Ireland and died May 9, 1778 > in Little Britten, Orange Co., NY. > vi. 13. Arthur Beatty was born 1714 in Co Antrim, Ireland and died Before > November 23, 1785 in Bur: Goodwill Pres. Church, Monterey, Orange County, > NY.. > > Children of John Beatty and Christiana Clinton: > vii. 14. Charles Clinton Rev. (Sr.) Beatty was born 1715 in Co Antrim, > Ireland and died August 13, 1772 in Barbadoes, West Indies of yellow > fever.. > viii. 15. Martha Beatty. > ix. 16. Mary Beatty. > x. 17. name unknown Beatty was born unknown and died in on board ship, > betwen Ireland and America. > > Notes on John Beatty > Genealogical Record of the Families of Beatty, Egle, Muller, Murray, Ortho > & Thomas. > William H. Egle > Harrisburg: Hart Printer and Binder, 1886 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > original note from original file, not researched by me. > Officer in the British Army, lived in Antrim, Ireland. > FA2: Date: 1690, PLace: went to Ireland after the battle of the Boyne. > Went with James. > > ~~~~~~~~~ > Research by Nelda, L-05 > The Battle of the Boyne > No year in Irish history is better known than 1690. No Irish battle is > more famous than William III's victory over James II at the River Boyne, a > few miles west of Drogheda. James, a Roman Catholic, had lost the throne > of England in the bloodless "Glorious Revolution" of 1688. William was > Prince of Orange, a Dutch- speaking Protestant married to James's daughter > Mary, and became king at the request of parliament. James sought refuge > with his old ally, Louis XIV of France, who saw an opportunity to strike > at William through Ireland. He provided French officers and arms for > James, who landed at Kinsale in March 1689. > > The lord deputy, the Earl of Tyrconnell, was a Catholic loyal to James, > and his Irish army controlled most of the island. James quickly summoned a > parliament, largely Catholic, which proceeded to repeal the legislation > under which Protestant settlers had acquired land. > > During the rule of Tyrconnell, the first Catholic viceroy since the > Reformation, Protestants had seen their influence eroded in the army, in > the courts and in civil government. Only in Ulster did they offer > effective resistance. In September 1688, while James was still king, > apprentice boys in Londonderry closed the city's gates to deny admission > to a Catholic regiment under Lord Antrim. In April 1689, the city refused > to surrender to James's army, and survived the hardships of a three-month > siege before relief came by sea. The Protestants of Enniskillen defended > their walled city with equal vigour, and won a number of victories over > Catholic troops. Eventually, James withdrew from the northern province. > > William could not ignore the threat from Ireland. In August 1689 Marshal > Schomberg landed at Bangor with 20,000 troops and, with Ulster secure, > pushed south as far as Dundalk. James's army blocked further progress > towards Dublin, but there was no battle and the two armies withdrew to > winter quarters. In March 1690 the Jacobite army was strengthened by 7,000 > French regulars, but Louis > demanded over 5,000 Irish troops in return. The Williamites were > reinforced by Danish mercenaries and by English and Dutch regiments. When > William himself landed at Carrickfergus on 14 June, he was able to muster > an army of 36,000 men. He began the march towards Dublin. There was some > resistance near Newry, but the Jacobites soon withdrew to the south bank > of the River Boyne. > > The battle was fought on 1 July 1690 at a fordable river bend four miles > west of Drogheda. The main body of Williamite infantry was concentrated on > fording the river at the village of Oldbridge, which was approached by a > deep and sheltenng glen. First, however, a detachment of cavalry and > infantry made a flanking attack upstream, which forced James to divert > troops to prevent his retreat being cut off. William's army was stronger > by at least 10,000 men, but after these troops > were drawn off he had three-to-one superiority in the main arena. By mid- > afternoon the Jacobite army was in retreat, outpaced by James himself, who > rode to Dublin to warn the city of William's approach. He was in France > before the month was out. On 6 July William entered Dublin, where he gave > thanks for victory in Christ Church Cathedral. > > The Battle of the Boyne is recalled each July in the celebrations of the > Orange Order, not on the first day but on "the Twelfth", for eleven days > were lost with the change from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in > 1752. It was not the end of the Williamite campaign, and the King had > returned to England before the Dutch general Ginkel's victory at Aughrim > and the formal Irish surrender after the siege of Limerick in 1691. The > Treaty of Limerick was not ungenerous to the defeated > Catholics, but they were soon to suffer from penal laws designed to > reinforce Protestant ascendancy throughout Irish life. > > From A Little History of Ireland by Martin Wallace with illustrations by > Ian McCullough. > ~~~~~~~~~ > Note from Annie Harris, L-05 extracted from the book > The Genealogy of Robert Beatty 1760-1823 > Introduction pg V > John Beatty, James Beatty, and Christiana Beatty came from north of > Ireland sailing May 20, 1729 and landed in New York October 4, 1729 after > a terrible voyage. Among those who succumbed to disease and hardships on > the voyage were John Beatty and his wife and five children, and also a > child of Christiana. The Beatty's surviving the voyage settled at Little > Britain, New Windsor, N.Y. Christiana Beatty, widow of John of Antrim, > Ireland was a sister of Charles Clinton, granddaughter of William Clinton, > a grandson of Henry Clinton, second Earl of Lincoln. By a former wife, her > husband John Beatty had William, Elsie, John, Arthur and James. John > Beatty Jr. died on shipboard leaving sons Arthur and James. > > (NOTE: This is a little confusing it is better to give dates on a person > rather then JR? Junior to whom making him whose son? I believe this is > John Beatty b.1665 husband of Christina, rather then her stepson, John > b.after 1705, who has no information listed at all, not wife or children, > although, John Beatty and wife and five children as listed above could > also have been John Beatty b. after 1705 /wife and children.. ..Back to > John Jr.? Leaving sons Arthur and James.. Which John? b. 1665 or after > 1705? John b. 1665 has two sons by those names born to his first wife > Elise Ross. They were born after 1705 and 1714..aged between 15 and 24.. > fifteen year old would be considered a child but not at 24 .. Still > guessing..Nelda) > Christina Clinton Beatty was the mother of Charles, Mary, Martha, and a > child who died on the voyage. Christina married again in America a James > Scott and died in New York City in 1776-7 aged ninety. > "Robert Beatty and brother Charles were early settlers in Marbletown, > Ulster county, N.Y., and doubtless were related to those just mentioned. > Charles Beatty died in 1726-27. Robert had sons, Robert and Thomas. Robert > Beatty Jr. died in Newburg N.Y. in 1779 leaving wife Mary and children > Thomas, John, Robert, Francis, Elizabeth Ann, and Mary." (copied from > Allegheny Valley, History of Ulster Co., N.Y. pg. 721) > page VI, > The family described below were already in America when the Christiana > Beatty family arrived. > (The following notes were gathered from a public Library in New York, > Ulster Co., exact reference to book not recorded.) > The above not is not my note but a note in the introduction of the book. > Annie Harris L454-L5 > "JOHN BEATTY: born in Ireland, boasting of descent from Prince Geoffrey of > Scotland, an alley of Bryan Bron who participated in battle of Clondarf, > 1014 A. D. Exact date of emigration not named. Nominated for sheriff of > Ulster County in 1691. He was the first resident of Esopus, now Kingston, > and later moved to Marbletown where he was a large owner. June 9, 1719, > 700 acres were confirmed to him by trustees of marbletown, Deputy Surveyor > of Province of New York. Surveyed and laid out Livingston Manor at request > of Robert Livingston, the first Patroon. > John Beatty married November 7, 1691 Susanna Ashford. He died in Ulster > County between April 26, 1720 and March 9, 1721. > John Beatty's children: Robert 1692-1742 ; Charles, and Agnes and John > baptized in 1701 in Cecil County, Maryland. (John married Elizabeth, > children mentioned but names not given.) > Other children of John Beatty and Susanna Ashford were: Judge Thomas > Beatty, baptized 1703, died 1769 in Prince George County, Maryland. (wife > Mary, children were Thomas, Charles, Susanna, James, Sarah) Edward : Died > in Maryland 1755 (children were Ezekiel, Ezra, Elijah, Edward) William > Beatty, second child of John and Susanna Beatty was baptized in Dutch > Church at Kingston, N/Y. June 9, 1695. Will dated May 18, 1757. Names > Heirs William, Eleanor, Mary, Anne. > William Beatty Jr. born Jan. 17, 1739 became one of chief men of Frederick > County, Maryland. > (Punctuation etc., taken from book, Annie Harris) > This information may open a can of worms. > Annie Harris L454-L5 > > > Notes > _FA2: Date: 1690 Place: to IRE after the battle of the Boyne, with James > ®997 > Notes > _FA2: Place: officer in British army ®997 > > > 7. James Beatty (John2, John1) was born About 1670 in Ayrshire, Scotland > and died 1745 in Hillsborough-Ballykeel-Ednagonnel, Co Down, IRE. He > married 1st Agnes maiden name unk. Beatty in 1st marriage, Ireland. He > married 2nd Sarah Ross in 2nd. She, daughter of John Ross and First name > unk. Ross, maiden name unk.. He married 3rd First name unk. maiden name > unk Beatty in 3rd. > Other events in the life of James Beatty > Occupation : ®147 > > Children of James Beatty and Agnes maiden name unk. Beatty: > i. 18. Agnes Beatty was born About 1700 in Ireland. > ii. 19. George Beatty was born About 1700 in Ireland. > iii. 20. James Beatty was born About 1700 in Ireland. > iv. 21. Richard Beatty was born About 1700 in Ireland. > v. 22. Robert Beatty was born About 1700 in Ireland. > vi. 23. Thomas Beatty was born About 1700 in Ireland. > vii. 24. William Beatty was born About 1718 in Ireland and died February > 1784 in Ballykeel-Ednagonnel, Ireland, Buried in Anahilt glebe, Co Down, > IRE. > viii. 25. John Beatty was born About 1722 in Ireland and died 1765 in > Ballykeel-Ednagonnel, County Down, IRE. > ix. 26. Alexander Beatty was born About 1725 in Ireland and died 1787 in > Northumberland County, PA, will probated 6/25/1787. > x. 27. First name unknown Beatty. > xi. 28. First name unknown Beatty. > xii. 29. First name unknown Beatty. > xiii. 30. First name unknown Beatty. > xiv. 31. First name unknown Beatty. > xv. 32. First name unknown Beatty. > xvi. 33. First name unknown Beatty. > xvii. 34. First name unknown Beatty. > xviii. 35. First name unknown Beatty. > xix. 36. First name unknown Beatty. > > > > Notes on James Beatty > Original notes from file: > _FA2: Place: settle county Down, NIRE, parish of Hillsborough > _FA2: Date: 1690 Place: to IRE after the battle of the Boyne > _FA3: Place: 19 children, 3 wives > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Beatty, James emigrated to Ireland shortly after the battle of the Boyne, > in 1690, when occurred that large influx of Scotch families into the > Northern counties of the Green Isle. His brother John moved with him. > James located in County Down at BallykeelEdnagonnel in the parish of > Hillsborough. he had 19 children by three wives, (note:it is not know > which mother gave birth to which children..Nelda) > from Genealogical Record of the families of Beatty, Egle, Muller, Murray > Orth and Thomas by William Henry Egle, MD MA dated 1886. > > > Notes > _FA2: Place: settle county Down, NIRE, parish of Hillsborough ®997 > Notes > _FA2: Date: 1690 Place: to IRE after the battle of the Boyne ®997 > Notes > _FA3: Place: 19 children, 3 wives ®997 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Please, can we exchange information...............Nelda > > > > Nelda's websites - > http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ > Gilpin DNA Project member > > > >

Linda I did leave out religion shame on me. They were Anglican (Church of England) in Canada. In one census in Canada one of the family members was listed as Methodist. Do you have a good or even great online site to learn about Irish Genealogy? I understand very little, but have picked up on a few things from listening on the lists. Mardi ----- Original Message ----- From: <lmerle@comcast.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] New to List (researching Beatty) > Hi Mardi and welcome to the list! > > You have traced your ancestors back to a specific place in Ireland and > apparently you are wanting to know what to do next??? > > Probably two things. One is to continue gathering info about them in > Canada in order to develop a good profile. Just like on TV when looking > for a killer the more you know the more likely you are to bag your man. > > The second thing to do is learn how to do Irish genealogy. That's really > critical because Ireland's records are very different from other > countries. > > You might also grab a book or so to learn how to leverage your Scottish > connection too. Scotland does have good records and by using the censuses > and civil registration (as well as OPRs) you can locate other family > members who might have additional info on the family in Ireland. > > I have two lines of Beatties, one on each side. My father's were Scottish > border Beatties who headed up the east coast of Scotland in the early > 1600s and eventually settled in Polmont in the 1830s. My mother's side > entered the Irish army in the mid 1600s from Ayrshire and settled in > Ireland due to the Williamite settlement. There were two brothers who were > officers in King WIlliam's army. The one is well documented in Egle's PA > genealogies. He settled in County Down where he had 15 children, > populating the planet with Beatties. Mine was in Antrim. We left in 1729, > settling in New York area where there were Ulster Scots. > > However if you check "The Scots-Irish" you'll see that native Beatties > were given small estates in Cavan (I think it was) at the start of the > public plantation. They lost these by the Williamite Settlement. These > ones were Catholic. Religion is key here and one of the things you've not > shared. > > You can get a fair amount of local history in Fermanagh, depending on > where they were, that might give you an idea where yours originated: as > native Irish or Scots settlers. > > You can locate Irish county resources in various books like Ryan's "Irish > Records", but a check of the Tithe Applotment index on CD will give you a > free two second idea of where in Fermanagh that Beatties lived and also > give you an idea of how common or uncommon the name "James Beattie" was. > > Linda Merle > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Mardi Carlson" <cmc@hutchtel.net> > >> Hi everyone, >> I am new to list. I am looking for any info on these people or how to >> find >> the info on theses People. Any help appreciated. >> >> James Beatty b. c. 1786 Co. Fermanagh never married in Ireland, He was a >> school teacher in Ireland before he immigrated to New Brunswick Canada in >> 1818 and married in 1820's. >> >> Brothers: >> William Beatty married Lucy they immigrated to New Brunswick Canada in >> 1816. >> >> John Beatty had a son named Benjamin. Location unknown. >> >> Benjamin Beatty possible he died near Portpatrick Scotland before 1852. >> >> Sisters: >> Esther Beatty married a Mayne and living in Portpatrick in 1852. >> >> Esther Beatty married a Brown and was living near Brooksborough, Co. >> Fermanagh in 1852. >> >> My gggrandfather William would be a son of one of James brothers, as he >> was his nephew. William b. c.1803 in Ireland married Margaret and had 4 >> kids namely Robert, James, Thomas and John before emigrating from Ireland >> to >> New Brunswick, Canada in 1836. >> >> In 1836 two other Beatty's immigrated to New Brunswick a Catherine Beatty >> and a Thomas Jasper Beatty. Thomas Jasper and William settled in the same >> area Kings County, NB and both attended the same church. I am under the >> assumption that they must of been relatives. Thomas Jasper was b. 1803 in >> Ireland. I do not know if they were brothers or cousins, or if it was >> just >> a big coincedence. But hightly doubt the later. >> >> Any Suggestions on what to try next??? >> Mardi >> > > >

Hi Mardi and welcome to the list! You have traced your ancestors back to a specific place in Ireland and apparently you are wanting to know what to do next??? Probably two things. One is to continue gathering info about them in Canada in order to develop a good profile. Just like on TV when looking for a killer the more you know the more likely you are to bag your man. The second thing to do is learn how to do Irish genealogy. That's really critical because Ireland's records are very different from other countries. You might also grab a book or so to learn how to leverage your Scottish connection too. Scotland does have good records and by using the censuses and civil registration (as well as OPRs) you can locate other family members who might have additional info on the family in Ireland. I have two lines of Beatties, one on each side. My father's were Scottish border Beatties who headed up the east coast of Scotland in the early 1600s and eventually settled in Polmont in the 1830s. My mother's side entered the Irish army in the mid 1600s from Ayrshire and settled in Ireland due to the Williamite settlement. There were two brothers who were officers in King WIlliam's army. The one is well documented in Egle's PA genealogies. He settled in County Down where he had 15 children, populating the planet with Beatties. Mine was in Antrim. We left in 1729, settling in New York area where there were Ulster Scots. However if you check "The Scots-Irish" you'll see that native Beatties were given small estates in Cavan (I think it was) at the start of the public plantation. They lost these by the Williamite Settlement. These ones were Catholic. Religion is key here and one of the things you've not shared. You can get a fair amount of local history in Fermanagh, depending on where they were, that might give you an idea where yours originated: as native Irish or Scots settlers. You can locate Irish county resources in various books like Ryan's "Irish Records", but a check of the Tithe Applotment index on CD will give you a free two second idea of where in Fermanagh that Beatties lived and also give you an idea of how common or uncommon the name "James Beattie" was. Linda Merle -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Mardi Carlson" <cmc@hutchtel.net> > Hi everyone, > I am new to list. I am looking for any info on these people or how to find > the info on theses People. Any help appreciated. > > James Beatty b. c. 1786 Co. Fermanagh never married in Ireland, He was a > school teacher in Ireland before he immigrated to New Brunswick Canada in > 1818 and married in 1820's. > > Brothers: > William Beatty married Lucy they immigrated to New Brunswick Canada in 1816. > > John Beatty had a son named Benjamin. Location unknown. > > Benjamin Beatty possible he died near Portpatrick Scotland before 1852. > > Sisters: > Esther Beatty married a Mayne and living in Portpatrick in 1852. > > Esther Beatty married a Brown and was living near Brooksborough, Co. > Fermanagh in 1852. > > My gggrandfather William would be a son of one of James brothers, as he > was his nephew. William b. c.1803 in Ireland married Margaret and had 4 > kids namely Robert, James, Thomas and John before emigrating from Ireland to > New Brunswick, Canada in 1836. > > In 1836 two other Beatty's immigrated to New Brunswick a Catherine Beatty > and a Thomas Jasper Beatty. Thomas Jasper and William settled in the same > area Kings County, NB and both attended the same church. I am under the > assumption that they must of been relatives. Thomas Jasper was b. 1803 in > Ireland. I do not know if they were brothers or cousins, or if it was just > a big coincedence. But hightly doubt the later. > > Any Suggestions on what to try next??? > Mardi >

Thanks to all of you who anwered offlist and onlist. I much appreciate the advice. Mardi ----- Original Message ----- From: <lmerle@comcast.net> To: <Scotch-Irish-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] New to List (researching Beatty) > Hi Mardi and welcome to the list! > > You have traced your ancestors back to a specific place in Ireland and > apparently you are wanting to know what to do next??? > > Probably two things. One is to continue gathering info about them in > Canada in order to develop a good profile. Just like on TV when looking > for a killer the more you know the more likely you are to bag your man. > > The second thing to do is learn how to do Irish genealogy. That's really > critical because Ireland's records are very different from other > countries. > > You might also grab a book or so to learn how to leverage your Scottish > connection too. Scotland does have good records and by using the censuses > and civil registration (as well as OPRs) you can locate other family > members who might have additional info on the family in Ireland. > > I have two lines of Beatties, one on each side. My father's were Scottish > border Beatties who headed up the east coast of Scotland in the early > 1600s and eventually settled in Polmont in the 1830s. My mother's side > entered the Irish army in the mid 1600s from Ayrshire and settled in > Ireland due to the Williamite settlement. There were two brothers who were > officers in King WIlliam's army. The one is well documented in Egle's PA > genealogies. He settled in County Down where he had 15 children, > populating the planet with Beatties. Mine was in Antrim. We left in 1729, > settling in New York area where there were Ulster Scots. > > However if you check "The Scots-Irish" you'll see that native Beatties > were given small estates in Cavan (I think it was) at the start of the > public plantation. They lost these by the Williamite Settlement. These > ones were Catholic. Religion is key here and one of the things you've not > shared. > > You can get a fair amount of local history in Fermanagh, depending on > where they were, that might give you an idea where yours originated: as > native Irish or Scots settlers. > > You can locate Irish county resources in various books like Ryan's "Irish > Records", but a check of the Tithe Applotment index on CD will give you a > free two second idea of where in Fermanagh that Beatties lived and also > give you an idea of how common or uncommon the name "James Beattie" was. > > Linda Merle > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Mardi Carlson" <cmc@hutchtel.net> > >> Hi everyone, >> I am new to list. I am looking for any info on these people or how to >> find >> the info on theses People. Any help appreciated. >> >> James Beatty b. c. 1786 Co. Fermanagh never married in Ireland, He was a >> school teacher in Ireland before he immigrated to New Brunswick Canada in >> 1818 and married in 1820's. >> >> Brothers: >> William Beatty married Lucy they immigrated to New Brunswick Canada in >> 1816. >> >> John Beatty had a son named Benjamin. Location unknown. >> >> Benjamin Beatty possible he died near Portpatrick Scotland before 1852. >> >> Sisters: >> Esther Beatty married a Mayne and living in Portpatrick in 1852. >> >> Esther Beatty married a Brown and was living near Brooksborough, Co. >> Fermanagh in 1852. >> >> My gggrandfather William would be a son of one of James brothers, as he >> was his nephew. William b. c.1803 in Ireland married Margaret and had 4 >> kids namely Robert, James, Thomas and John before emigrating from Ireland >> to >> New Brunswick, Canada in 1836. >> >> In 1836 two other Beatty's immigrated to New Brunswick a Catherine Beatty >> and a Thomas Jasper Beatty. Thomas Jasper and William settled in the same >> area Kings County, NB and both attended the same church. I am under the >> assumption that they must of been relatives. Thomas Jasper was b. 1803 in >> Ireland. I do not know if they were brothers or cousins, or if it was >> just >> a big coincedence. But hightly doubt the later. >> >> Any Suggestions on what to try next??? >> Mardi >> > > >

Hi Karen, That is Harrisburg, PA and that is a business name, so try the City directory for the year it was published.. 1886. I'd try the mailing list for Harrisburg, PA if they have one or Like I have done call the library for that city and talk to the reference librarian and ask where the city directories for that year would be kept? they might have them right there and be able to look up the business owners or be able to tell you where to look for the information. Third, try land records and tax records .. it was a business so they paid taxes.. Hope that helps Nelda Nelda's websites - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member

Hi Linda, OK, I understand, but tell me where to start researching and I'll send you what I find. Let me be your feet and eyes it will help me and might help you also. By the way we have two Beattys yDNA tested that are paper trail of these lines. So if you know of a living male Beatty in Ireland, whose of either lines It would behove us to try to get him tested too. Thank you Nelda Nelda's websites - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member ----Original Message Follows---- From: lmerle@comcast.net To: Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] New to List (researching Beatty) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 22:33:23 +0000 Hi Nelda, Unfortunately the information that I have and the information you have is inconclusive. None of it is enough to establish that a John Beatty, b. in Ayrshire fought in King William's Army. All we have for this is secondary information. Egle is not a primary source. Neither are county history. These are clues that should be verified but so far, they've not been, that I am aware of. This stuff: > They lived in the Scottish lowlands in the Dalbeattie area That was where there was a large Beatty clan. There is no evidence that the ones named in this unproven lineage were from there or lived there. Zilch. In my own case there's a further problem with New York/PA link that needs resolved. I do have some research that I gathered but I cannot share it yet because the research is not quite complete. I often use this line as an example of how learning about the records and the time and place assists. I was once spammed by a man with a huge attachment of all the "John Beatties" in the muster lists of the early 1600s in Ireland. He had concluded it was impossible to identify which was the one he sought. However he didn't realize that IF the John Beattie we seek WAS an officer in the Irish army at the time, he wasn't mustered in. Two reasons, the first rather bogus...IF he was born and raised in Scotland, as the story goes, then he wasn't living in Ireland to be mustered at all. The second one is the better: officers weren't mustered in bought bought commissions usually. (They still might be named on muster lists of course). A search of surviving lists of officiers revealed one and only one John Beatty and he served with a fellow officer surnamed Clinton. However it still must be proven that this John is the John that is sought, who lived in Antrim, etc etc. No James. The James who stayed is easier to document because he did stay. There seems little doubt that he was living in Down and shedding descendents into a small area of Pennsylvania (which overflowed rapidly). For several years now I've been busy working for a client and have not done any personal research. I do have some information that is like bricks. I need to get a couple more bricks and add mortar to make the wall or build the case. Until I do the info I have will stay on my disk because if I let it out it'll be buried in dreck and/or become the gospel truth, and it's not. Unfortunately there's a lot of stuff of mine 'out there' that is not proven but totally speculative and I don't want to add to the poop I'm responsible for <grin>. I might also add if I do figure it out I'm going to publish it in a real magazine and leave it to cousins to find it as revenge <grin>. I can't think of anything meaner!! A couple problems we all have here is that the soldiers in King William's Army at not known. The more prominant members of King James' are published, but not King Williams, as near as I can tell. They may lie buried in Kew Garden in the WO category. Some may be identified in English and Irish gov. records though a lot of the Irish gov papers were destroyed in 1922. There may be some that were copied out before hand and exist in a secondary collection in the UK. I got a list of a couple libraries to check in Ulster next time I'm back as well. I would expect that PRO would be more fruitful. Another problem is that many OPRs were destroyed for the area of Scotland they supposedly came from and are very incomplete in the early 1600s anyway. If these two brothers were able to buy commissions in the army they were well off. They may have been younger sons of a landed family and/or a merchant family (the officer I found might have merchant connections). Or an unlanded but gentle family with a little cash. So they might be named in a Scottish will or testament (these are two different things). With no sign of an officer named James, the received family info kinda 'breaks down'. So do the records...the Protestants were purged from the army in the years leading up to the 1690s. Comfortingly for those who believe they were Protestants, John disappears too, but where's James? Donno. Need to spend a lot of time 1. studying early British military records and 2. finding them in PRO, PRONI, and the NAI (etc). I've not had time to do that research. They weren't officers in James' army (always good to check!). A third problem of course is the difficulty of finding traces of a man who left Antrim in 1729 and apparently wasn't there for long. Some data gathered. Maybe same data everyone else has. Not done gathering data so not time to make decision. There's a DNA study of border clans that should be of interest to all Beatties who think their ancestors came from there. However it's highly unlikely they did as I do know based on personal research that the surname is rather indiginous to Ireland as alledged in some of the legends (O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees"). I do hope everything in O'Hart is right because I love thinking I descend from some 'prince' who fought at Clontarf on the right side <grin>, even though he too is unfindable. Just think of the novels we can write..... Sorry to open my big mouth -- I too harbor fantasies about this line but until my sister and I do resolve the difficulties of our own connection to it, we won't be showing up at any family reunions. Probably our family is related but if I mention why I think so on this list it'll become gospel -- and it's not. It's possible we're not though more likely we are, but all it takes is another trip up the pike to show we're not. There's a lot of nonsense published on the Clinton line too -- O'Brien claimed they were native Irish, but he's incorrect and I think I can prove it, kinda. They were displaced from the earldom of Lincolnshire during the British Civil War. That line has a fascinating connection with English Puritans in the early 1600s and appear to have financed the Mass Bay Colony (I think....maybe next time I review my data I may have second thoughts). So if they leaned in that direction, it becomes clearer why after the Restoration, the grandson was unable to get the earldom restored to them. Also I once found a fascinating article that told a story about how I think it was DeWitt Clinton, sealed the New York state documents right after the Revolution with his signet ring, that he knew was the ring of the earl of Lincolnshire. Of course the British had 2 Clinton generals on their side and the US also had two.... One of the British Clintons then learned that they were related to these American Clintons, the long lost family line....Donno if it is true or not...and it mighta been one of the two American Clintons that used the ring, not Dewitt.... I'm just free associating, not opening files or checking any documentation. The Clintons left the Beatties in the dust very fast in Newburgh. Had no time for those over religious semi relatives. However I do love the story of John's widow entertaining Ptown with her Irish harp in 1729. Also the Rev. Charles Clinton Beatty, when he returned to England looking for a cure for his wife's breast cancer (he shoulda tried Lourdes: she died) attended the coronation of King George! How embarrassing <grin>. I don't even recall where I found this gem but it's on a piece of paper in this huge pile I must organize and file after I finish this book project for my client in the next few weeks. Why am I organized with my clients' stuff and such a slob with my own??? If I only had some Clinton genes I mighta made something of myself <grin>....but I'm just another grouchy Beattie, twice over. My "stayed in Scotland" ones were also religious fanatics (Wee Freers) and near as I can tell, grouchy too. Linda Merle

Hi Linda, I have been a member of this list for about 6 months now... BUT! Wow Just reading your email addressed to Mardi, who I know from another set of lists, and saw your entry My mother's side entered the Irish army in the mid 1600s from Ayrshire and settled in Ireland due to the Williamite settlement. There were two brothers who were officers in King WIlliam's army. The one is well documented in Egle's PA genealogies. He settled in County Down where he had 15 children, populating the planet with Beatties. Mine was in Antrim. We left in 1729, settling in New York area where there were Ulster Scots. ~~~~~~~~~~~ LOL I'm just jumping up and down... I'm sure we share the Beatty lineage.. 1st Generation 1. John Beatty was born 1587 in Scotland. He married Margaret Thompson 1619 in Scotland. Children of John Beatty and Margaret Thompson: i. 2. James Beatty was born 1620. ii. 3. John Beatty was born 1621 in Ayrshire, Scotland. iii. 4. Henry Beatty was born 1623. iv. 5. Patrick Beatty was born 1625. Notes on John Beatty the next two generations comes from Larry Cornwell contact at: LaCornwell@@@aol.com BEATTY Introduction According to the biography of the Honorable John P. Beatty of Jasper County, Iowa, published in the Portrait and Biographical Record of Jasper, Marshall, and Grundy Counties, Iowa in 1894, "The Beatty family is of Scotch ancestry, and was prominently connected with the Presbyterian Church in Scotland prior to the religious revolution, but at that time they left the country and settled in the North of Ireland." The first two generations, below, are undocumented and unproven. ~~~~~~~~ They lived in the Scottish lowlands in the Dalbeattie area ~~~~~~~~ John and Jane existed as individuals, but the proof that they were the parents of John and James has not been discovered. They may have been the parents of James and John, identified below. According to research of Marlene K. Smith, "After the battle of Boyne in 1690, John and his two sons, John and James, left Scotland along with a large influx of Scottish families for the northern counties of Ireland." (Note..First time I have heard that John Beatty, wife Jane Ross, father of John and James moved to Ireland with his sons...nlp) ~~~~~~~~ 2nd Generation (Children) 2. James Beatty (John1) was born 1620. 3. John Beatty (John1) was born 1621 in Ayrshire, Scotland. He married Jane Ross About 1664 in Scotland. She was born in Scotland . Other events in the life of John Beatty Fact 1 : BP2000 - L- 5 Fact 2 : source: Engle in Egle as source Children of John Beatty and Jane Ross: i. 6. John Beatty was born About 1665 in Ayrshire Scotland and died 1729 in lived in County Antrim,Ireland. ii. 7. James Beatty was born About 1670 in Ayrshire, Scotland and died 1745 in Hillsborough-Ballykeel-Ednagonnel, Co Down, IRE. Notes on John Beatty FA2: Place: BEATTY PROJECT 2000--LINEAGE #5 source: Egal Book; Copied from a message from Helen, dated 27 Dec 03 she can be contacted at hmackain at aol.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Genealogical Record of the families of Beatty, Egle, Muller, Murray Orth and Thomas by William Henry Egle, MD MA dated 1886. Harrisburg: Hart Printer and Binder, 1886 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Carol Haskins provided part of his record she can be contacted at lorac 0903 at yahoo.com delete spaces and use symbol instead of word at.. Notes _FA2: Place: BEATTY PROJECT 2000--LINEAGE #5 ®997 4. Henry Beatty (John1) was born 1623. 5. Patrick Beatty (John1) was born 1625. 3rd Generation (Grandchildren) 6. John Beatty (John2, John1) was born About 1665 in Ayrshire Scotland and died 1729 in lived in County Antrim,Ireland. He married 1st Elise Ross Before 1705 . She died Before 1715 in probably in childbirth of Arthur-1714, daughter of John Ross and First name unk. Ross, maiden name unk.. He married 2nd Christiana Clinton 1714 in Northern Ireland. She was born 1685/86 and died 1776/77 in New York City, NY Co., NY, daughter of James Clinton and First name unk. Clinton, maiden name unk.. Other events in the life of John Beatty Occupation : Officer in Brittish Army Education : Lived in Antrim, Ireland Other events in the life of Christiana Clinton Education : Aunt of John Clinton first Governor of New York. Children of John Beatty and Elise Ross: i. 8. Elsie Beatty was born About 1705 and died in probably enroute to America. ii. 9. James Beatty was born After 1705. iii. 10. John (Jr.) Beatty was born After 1705 and died in on board ship between Ireland and America. iv. 11. William Beatty was born After 1705 and died in probably enroute to America. v. 12. Robert Thomas Beattie was born 1707 in Ireland and died May 9, 1778 in Little Britten, Orange Co., NY. vi. 13. Arthur Beatty was born 1714 in Co Antrim, Ireland and died Before November 23, 1785 in Bur: Goodwill Pres. Church, Monterey, Orange County, NY.. Children of John Beatty and Christiana Clinton: vii. 14. Charles Clinton Rev. (Sr.) Beatty was born 1715 in Co Antrim, Ireland and died August 13, 1772 in Barbadoes, West Indies of yellow fever.. viii. 15. Martha Beatty. ix. 16. Mary Beatty. x. 17. name unknown Beatty was born unknown and died in on board ship, betwen Ireland and America. Notes on John Beatty Genealogical Record of the Families of Beatty, Egle, Muller, Murray, Ortho & Thomas. William H. Egle Harrisburg: Hart Printer and Binder, 1886 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ original note from original file, not researched by me. Officer in the British Army, lived in Antrim, Ireland. FA2: Date: 1690, PLace: went to Ireland after the battle of the Boyne. Went with James. ~~~~~~~~~ Research by Nelda, L-05 The Battle of the Boyne No year in Irish history is better known than 1690. No Irish battle is more famous than William III's victory over James II at the River Boyne, a few miles west of Drogheda. James, a Roman Catholic, had lost the throne of England in the bloodless "Glorious Revolution" of 1688. William was Prince of Orange, a Dutch- speaking Protestant married to James's daughter Mary, and became king at the request of parliament. James sought refuge with his old ally, Louis XIV of France, who saw an opportunity to strike at William through Ireland. He provided French officers and arms for James, who landed at Kinsale in March 1689. The lord deputy, the Earl of Tyrconnell, was a Catholic loyal to James, and his Irish army controlled most of the island. James quickly summoned a parliament, largely Catholic, which proceeded to repeal the legislation under which Protestant settlers had acquired land. During the rule of Tyrconnell, the first Catholic viceroy since the Reformation, Protestants had seen their influence eroded in the army, in the courts and in civil government. Only in Ulster did they offer effective resistance. In September 1688, while James was still king, apprentice boys in Londonderry closed the city's gates to deny admission to a Catholic regiment under Lord Antrim. In April 1689, the city refused to surrender to James's army, and survived the hardships of a three-month siege before relief came by sea. The Protestants of Enniskillen defended their walled city with equal vigour, and won a number of victories over Catholic troops. Eventually, James withdrew from the northern province. William could not ignore the threat from Ireland. In August 1689 Marshal Schomberg landed at Bangor with 20,000 troops and, with Ulster secure, pushed south as far as Dundalk. James's army blocked further progress towards Dublin, but there was no battle and the two armies withdrew to winter quarters. In March 1690 the Jacobite army was strengthened by 7,000 French regulars, but Louis demanded over 5,000 Irish troops in return. The Williamites were reinforced by Danish mercenaries and by English and Dutch regiments. When William himself landed at Carrickfergus on 14 June, he was able to muster an army of 36,000 men. He began the march towards Dublin. There was some resistance near Newry, but the Jacobites soon withdrew to the south bank of the River Boyne. The battle was fought on 1 July 1690 at a fordable river bend four miles west of Drogheda. The main body of Williamite infantry was concentrated on fording the river at the village of Oldbridge, which was approached by a deep and sheltenng glen. First, however, a detachment of cavalry and infantry made a flanking attack upstream, which forced James to divert troops to prevent his retreat being cut off. William's army was stronger by at least 10,000 men, but after these troops were drawn off he had three-to-one superiority in the main arena. By mid- afternoon the Jacobite army was in retreat, outpaced by James himself, who rode to Dublin to warn the city of William's approach. He was in France before the month was out. On 6 July William entered Dublin, where he gave thanks for victory in Christ Church Cathedral. The Battle of the Boyne is recalled each July in the celebrations of the Orange Order, not on the first day but on "the Twelfth", for eleven days were lost with the change from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in 1752. It was not the end of the Williamite campaign, and the King had returned to England before the Dutch general Ginkel's victory at Aughrim and the formal Irish surrender after the siege of Limerick in 1691. The Treaty of Limerick was not ungenerous to the defeated Catholics, but they were soon to suffer from penal laws designed to reinforce Protestant ascendancy throughout Irish life. From A Little History of Ireland by Martin Wallace with illustrations by Ian McCullough. ~~~~~~~~~ Note from Annie Harris, L-05 extracted from the book The Genealogy of Robert Beatty 1760-1823 Introduction pg V John Beatty, James Beatty, and Christiana Beatty came from north of Ireland sailing May 20, 1729 and landed in New York October 4, 1729 after a terrible voyage. Among those who succumbed to disease and hardships on the voyage were John Beatty and his wife and five children, and also a child of Christiana. The Beatty's surviving the voyage settled at Little Britain, New Windsor, N.Y. Christiana Beatty, widow of John of Antrim, Ireland was a sister of Charles Clinton, granddaughter of William Clinton, a grandson of Henry Clinton, second Earl of Lincoln. By a former wife, her husband John Beatty had William, Elsie, John, Arthur and James. John Beatty Jr. died on shipboard leaving sons Arthur and James. (NOTE: This is a little confusing it is better to give dates on a person rather then JR? Junior to whom making him whose son? I believe this is John Beatty b.1665 husband of Christina, rather then her stepson, John b.after 1705, who has no information listed at all, not wife or children, although, John Beatty and wife and five children as listed above could also have been John Beatty b. after 1705 /wife and children.. ..Back to John Jr.? Leaving sons Arthur and James.. Which John? b. 1665 or after 1705? John b. 1665 has two sons by those names born to his first wife Elise Ross. They were born after 1705 and 1714..aged between 15 and 24.. fifteen year old would be considered a child but not at 24 .. Still guessing..Nelda) Christina Clinton Beatty was the mother of Charles, Mary, Martha, and a child who died on the voyage. Christina married again in America a James Scott and died in New York City in 1776-7 aged ninety. "Robert Beatty and brother Charles were early settlers in Marbletown, Ulster county, N.Y., and doubtless were related to those just mentioned. Charles Beatty died in 1726-27. Robert had sons, Robert and Thomas. Robert Beatty Jr. died in Newburg N.Y. in 1779 leaving wife Mary and children Thomas, John, Robert, Francis, Elizabeth Ann, and Mary." (copied from Allegheny Valley, History of Ulster Co., N.Y. pg. 721) page VI, The family described below were already in America when the Christiana Beatty family arrived. (The following notes were gathered from a public Library in New York, Ulster Co., exact reference to book not recorded.) The above not is not my note but a note in the introduction of the book. Annie Harris L454-L5 "JOHN BEATTY: born in Ireland, boasting of descent from Prince Geoffrey of Scotland, an alley of Bryan Bron who participated in battle of Clondarf, 1014 A. D. Exact date of emigration not named. Nominated for sheriff of Ulster County in 1691. He was the first resident of Esopus, now Kingston, and later moved to Marbletown where he was a large owner. June 9, 1719, 700 acres were confirmed to him by trustees of marbletown, Deputy Surveyor of Province of New York. Surveyed and laid out Livingston Manor at request of Robert Livingston, the first Patroon. John Beatty married November 7, 1691 Susanna Ashford. He died in Ulster County between April 26, 1720 and March 9, 1721. John Beatty's children: Robert 1692-1742 ; Charles, and Agnes and John baptized in 1701 in Cecil County, Maryland. (John married Elizabeth, children mentioned but names not given.) Other children of John Beatty and Susanna Ashford were: Judge Thomas Beatty, baptized 1703, died 1769 in Prince George County, Maryland. (wife Mary, children were Thomas, Charles, Susanna, James, Sarah) Edward : Died in Maryland 1755 (children were Ezekiel, Ezra, Elijah, Edward) William Beatty, second child of John and Susanna Beatty was baptized in Dutch Church at Kingston, N/Y. June 9, 1695. Will dated May 18, 1757. Names Heirs William, Eleanor, Mary, Anne. William Beatty Jr. born Jan. 17, 1739 became one of chief men of Frederick County, Maryland. (Punctuation etc., taken from book, Annie Harris) This information may open a can of worms. Annie Harris L454-L5 Notes _FA2: Date: 1690 Place: to IRE after the battle of the Boyne, with James ®997 Notes _FA2: Place: officer in British army ®997 7. James Beatty (John2, John1) was born About 1670 in Ayrshire, Scotland and died 1745 in Hillsborough-Ballykeel-Ednagonnel, Co Down, IRE. He married 1st Agnes maiden name unk. Beatty in 1st marriage, Ireland. He married 2nd Sarah Ross in 2nd. She, daughter of John Ross and First name unk. Ross, maiden name unk.. He married 3rd First name unk. maiden name unk Beatty in 3rd. Other events in the life of James Beatty Occupation : ®147 Children of James Beatty and Agnes maiden name unk. Beatty: i. 18. Agnes Beatty was born About 1700 in Ireland. ii. 19. George Beatty was born About 1700 in Ireland. iii. 20. James Beatty was born About 1700 in Ireland. iv. 21. Richard Beatty was born About 1700 in Ireland. v. 22. Robert Beatty was born About 1700 in Ireland. vi. 23. Thomas Beatty was born About 1700 in Ireland. vii. 24. William Beatty was born About 1718 in Ireland and died February 1784 in Ballykeel-Ednagonnel, Ireland, Buried in Anahilt glebe, Co Down, IRE. viii. 25. John Beatty was born About 1722 in Ireland and died 1765 in Ballykeel-Ednagonnel, County Down, IRE. ix. 26. Alexander Beatty was born About 1725 in Ireland and died 1787 in Northumberland County, PA, will probated 6/25/1787. x. 27. First name unknown Beatty. xi. 28. First name unknown Beatty. xii. 29. First name unknown Beatty. xiii. 30. First name unknown Beatty. xiv. 31. First name unknown Beatty. xv. 32. First name unknown Beatty. xvi. 33. First name unknown Beatty. xvii. 34. First name unknown Beatty. xviii. 35. First name unknown Beatty. xix. 36. First name unknown Beatty. Notes on James Beatty Original notes from file: _FA2: Place: settle county Down, NIRE, parish of Hillsborough _FA2: Date: 1690 Place: to IRE after the battle of the Boyne _FA3: Place: 19 children, 3 wives ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beatty, James emigrated to Ireland shortly after the battle of the Boyne, in 1690, when occurred that large influx of Scotch families into the Northern counties of the Green Isle. His brother John moved with him. James located in County Down at BallykeelEdnagonnel in the parish of Hillsborough. he had 19 children by three wives, (note:it is not know which mother gave birth to which children..Nelda) from Genealogical Record of the families of Beatty, Egle, Muller, Murray Orth and Thomas by William Henry Egle, MD MA dated 1886. Notes _FA2: Place: settle county Down, NIRE, parish of Hillsborough ®997 Notes _FA2: Date: 1690 Place: to IRE after the battle of the Boyne ®997 Notes _FA3: Place: 19 children, 3 wives ®997 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please, can we exchange information...............Nelda Nelda's websites - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member

Hi everyone, I am new to list. I am looking for any info on these people or how to find the info on theses People. Any help appreciated. James Beatty b. c. 1786 Co. Fermanagh never married in Ireland, He was a school teacher in Ireland before he immigrated to New Brunswick Canada in 1818 and married in 1820's. Brothers: William Beatty married Lucy they immigrated to New Brunswick Canada in 1816. John Beatty had a son named Benjamin. Location unknown. Benjamin Beatty possible he died near Portpatrick Scotland before 1852. Sisters: Esther Beatty married a Mayne and living in Portpatrick in 1852. Esther Beatty married a Brown and was living near Brooksborough, Co. Fermanagh in 1852. My gggrandfather William would be a son of one of James brothers, as he was his nephew. William b. c.1803 in Ireland married Margaret and had 4 kids namely Robert, James, Thomas and John before emigrating from Ireland to New Brunswick, Canada in 1836. In 1836 two other Beatty's immigrated to New Brunswick a Catherine Beatty and a Thomas Jasper Beatty. Thomas Jasper and William settled in the same area Kings County, NB and both attended the same church. I am under the assumption that they must of been relatives. Thomas Jasper was b. 1803 in Ireland. I do not know if they were brothers or cousins, or if it was just a big coincedence. But hightly doubt the later. Any Suggestions on what to try next??? Mardi

Hi Barbara, most here are researching in Ireland in the 1700s. Ask on any other Irish list to find those with more 20th century expertise, though maybe we can assist. I'm not sure what you are looking at: the page or an index. If you read here: http://www.proni.gov.uk/records/deeds.htm regarding the names index it says: "From 1833, the details to be extracted to find the relevant information in the Transcript and Abstract books are: the year of registration; the number of the file and volumes of the Transcript book." It further says: "When you locate an entry which interests you, in either index, an index number will lead you to the book in which the memorial has been copied. " Are you looking at the index number? Again not knowing if you are looking at and index or the deed book itself makes it hard to give you an answer....Back in the 1700s where I'm usually looking I'm usually focused on thinking "Good God! Is this English handwriting or Martian?" <grin>. The grantee name was recorded in the deed and in the grantee index. You can download a free guide from LDS www.familysearch.org . Linda Merle -------------- Original message -------------- From: Barbara Braswell <barb_braswell@yahoo.com> > Does it possibly mean they didn't record the grantee > and for some reason just recorded the number of the > memorial in that column??? > > Barbara > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >

Hi Marilyn, In the 1820s in Ireland (or anywhere in the UK) there was no separation of church and state. The established church, as it had done in the days when it was Catholic, as it continued to due after the Reformation(s) (ie the one imposed by Henry VIII in England and Ireland and the one begun in Scotland by John Knox). Poor and sick people needed to be fed and cared for. Roads needed maintained. Petty court cases needed to be heard. The blasphemous, the adulterers, and other immoral types had to be dealt with lest God hold the whole nation responsible as it went merrily on its way to H*** and He did something like let the Spanish or the French invade. Plus you had to raise money to support all this. And you had to probate wills. The church was already doing these things okay through the parish system. So in 1820 everyone paid tithes to the established church to not only feed the Vicar's fat cat and refinish the chapel, but also to feed the poor and the sick, etc. As time has passed modernism eroded away at the importance of the parish (and the church) so that by 1820 the whole system was a pale shadow of its medieval self. The big problem was Ireland where the majority of peop;le were not established church members and greatly resented having to help feed the Vicar's cat or even himself for that matter. There are various stories of vicars in Ulster where the only being to show up at his Sunday sermon was his cat. The Catholics were at the Mass Rock and the Presbyterians were off in a field or a barn. Obviously the very poor didn't tithe. They were the recipients of tithes. It was basically a land tax so if your ancestors were servants they aren't on it. Also the church owned a lot of real estate. It's tenants had already paid their tithes as rent. For more details you can see pp 264 and on in "Discovering your Irish Ancestors". You can google and find more too. It's not just a matter of what's "IN" them but how you use them. If you know your ancestors were somewhere and they aren't in them, it suggests a number of things, for example. Radford and Betitt point out (p. 265) that not even every land occupier was in them, just those who had to pay tithe. cottiers and farm servants, no. Sometimes a single person was the designated tithe payer so others aren't named. In one study in County Cavan, it was found that 35 percent of the people in the parish were named in it. Back on the 'it's not a matter of what's in them but how you can use them, they can be used to study surname distribution in Ireland. This is very useful because it is Pre Famine. Griffiths is not. The book I have mentioned gives a study of a case where the info is not straightforward. Very useful for peopel who think it is a matter of a lookup. LDS has a great guide on them. I have personally found that every time I use it I need to reread this and to do some thinking. This was truer before we had the modern indexes but the modern indexes (on CD) have large errors. Best of luck!! Linda Merle -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Marilyn Otterson" <rosiedoggie@verizon.net> > Hi, > Can somebody tell me exactly what the tithe applotment books, 1828-1838 can > tell us...I mean, they show names and townlands, but is it for church > tithing or what? > > Thanks, > Marilyn >

Hi, Can somebody tell me exactly what the tithe applotment books, 1828-1838 can tell us...I mean, they show names and townlands, but is it for church tithing or what? Thanks, Marilyn

Does it possibly mean they didn't record the grantee and for some reason just recorded the number of the memorial in that column??? Barbara __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Made my first acquaintance with the Registry of Deeds in Salt Lake a few weeks ago! Time consuming and utterly fascinating and highly recommended! I have a question. What does a four digit number mean in the grantee column of the early 1900 index records??? Many thanks Barbara __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com