Thank you for this. One of these is within range for me and I am going to go. On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Charles O'Neill <[email protected]>wrote: > Thought this might be of interest to some of the subscribers. > > My apologies if this has been already posted. > > C. P. O'Neill > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Ulster Historical Foundation lecture programme March 2010 > Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2010 11:01:52 +0000 > From: AncestryIreland.com <[email protected]> > Reply-To: AncestryIreland.com <[email protected]> > > > > > > With St Patrick’s Day approaching many people think about > their Irish and Scots-Irish ancestry, and the Foundation’s > forthcoming lecture tour in the USA (13 to 20 March 2010) is > a great opportunity to celebrate your Irish connections. > > We have listed below the details for the venues of our six > locations in Wayne PA, Lancaster PA, Raleigh NC, Naples FL, > Lincoln NE and Bethpage, Long Island NY. > > If you are unable to attend we would ask that you help us > promote these events to the widest possible audience by > passing on the information to your contacts or local > societies. > We should like to thank everyone who helped in setting up > our March programme. > > To our members/contacts outside of the USA we apologise in > advance that this information is not relevant to your area. > > We would add though, particular for members in the UK, that > the Foundation is keen to undertake more engagements in 2010 > and a letter on this subject will be sent out shortly. > > For members in Canada, the Foundation is willing to speak to > any group who might consider hosting a programme. You might > be interested to know that Research Director, Dr William > Roulston, has been invited to speak at a conference in the > autumn, and could include other venues as part of that trip. > > We thank you for your interest in the Foundation’s work. > > Yours sincerely > > FINTAN MULLAN > Executive Director > Ulster Historical Foundation > > > > ULSTER HISTORICAL FOUNDATION > Irish and Scots Irish Genealogy Lecture Tour > 13 to 20 March 2010 > > > Saturday, 13 March 2010 (8:30 AM to 4: 30 PM) > --------------------------------------------- > Programme title: Researching Your Irish Ancestors – > The Ulster Historical Foundation > > Location of programme: Embassy Suites, Valley Forge, PA > 888 Chesterbrook Boulevard, Wayne, PA 19087 > > Host organisation: The Genealogical Society of > Pennsylvania > > Main contact: [email protected] > > Registration Details: $55 Members; $60 Non-Members > (includes Continental Breakfast, Buffet Lunch and Handouts) > > Further information: Register online at: > http://www.genpa.org/irish_registration_10.html > > > > Sunday, 14 March 2010 (1.00 PM to 5.00 PM) > -------------------------------------------- > Programme title: Scots-Irish Seminar and Workshop > > Location of programme: Lancaster County Historical Society, > 230 North President Avenue, Lancaster, PA 17603 > > > Host organisation: Lancaster County Historical Society > > Main contact: Tel: (717) 392-4633 > [email protected] > > Registration Details: $50.00/person for non-members, and > $45.00/person for members. > There is a maximum number of 30 attendees. Short snack break > included in price. > > Further information: Register online at: > http://www.lancasterhistory.org/index.php? > option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=53 > > > > Monday, 15 March 2010. (1.00 PM to 5.00 PM) > -------------------------------------------- > Programme title: Our Irish and Scots-Irish Ancestors > > Location of programme: North Carolina State Archives > Auditorium, 109 East Jones Street, Raleigh, NC 27601 > > Host organisation: North Carolina Genealogical Society > > Main contact: www.ncgenealogy.org > > Registration Details: Payment can be made by check, credit > card or PayPal. > Paypay at the NCGSwebsite store: http://www.ncgenealoav.org > Checks payable to "North Carolina Genealogical Society". > Send to: NCGS Irish & Scots-Irish Program, P. O. Box 30815, > Raleigh, NC 27622-0815. Checks posted after March 10, 2010 > will not be received. > > Further information: See http://www.archives.ncdcr.gov > for parking information > > > > Tuesday, 16 March 2010 (8.30am to 4.30 PM) > ------------------------------------------- > Programme title: Researching your Irish and Scots- > Irish Ancestors > > Location of programme: 5050 Ave Maria Blvd., Ave Maria, FL > 34142-9505 > Ballroom and Executive Dinning Room > in the Bob Thomas Student Union > > Host organisation: Ave Maria University > > Main contact: Rev. Deacon Forrest Wallace > Phone 239.280.1678 [email protected] > > Registration Details: $20 per person. Register with the > University. More details available soon. > > Further information: www.avemaria.edu/ > > > Wednesday, 17 March 2010 (1.30 PM to 4.30 PM) > ---------------------------------------------------- > Programme title: Irish and Scots-Irish Research > > Location of > programme: Southeast Community College > Continuing Education Center > 301 S. 68th Street Place, 4th Floor, Lincoln, NE 68510-2449 > > Host organisation: Lincoln-Lancaster County > Genealogical Society > > Main contact: 402-437-2700, 800-828-0072 (tell the > operator the name of the event – > Ulster Historical Foundation Lectures) > > Registration Details: The fee for the class will be $20 > per person. Register by contacting the > Southeast Community College > > Further information: > www.southeast.edu/continuing/default.asp > > > Saturday, 20 March 2010 (9.30 AM to 1.00 PM) > -------------------------------------------- > Programme title: > > Location of programme: Bethpage Public Library, 47 Powell > Avenue, Bethpage, NY 11714. > Meeting room is on lower level > > Host organisation: Irish Family History Forum > > Main contact: Patricia at [email protected] > Phone: 516 378 5619 (between 9 am - 6 pm, NY time) > > Registration Details: Admission is free. No registration. > > Further information: www.ifhf.org. Parking across the > street from library. Library is within > walking distance of Long Island Railroad station in Bethpage > > > Programme for Ulster Historical Foundation Irish genealogy > lecture tour 13 to 20 March 2010. If you need any advice > contact: [email protected] > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a whole lot of those names!!! I have a number of books here at the house including "The State of Buncombe", "The Tribe of Jacob" (Weber to Weaver), "Dry Ridge", "Cabins and Castles, A History and Architecture of Buncombe County". Plus I have gravestones, pictures of cemetaries, pictures of the areas, and have a lot of info. BTW...both my husband and I have Huguenots in our lines..and both are found in this area, and have 'anglicized' their names and blended right in with the Scotch-Irish. I also have names of those who went into TN..into Cocke, Greene, Jefferson counties, and Sevier County. One of my husband's ancestors is a Darby O'Reagan, an Irish Revolutionary, and who was NOT Catholic. The Reagans are in Sevier, Cocke, TN, and in Madison and Buncombe Counties of NC...I have a lot of the genealogies of this area. Most of these families were well-educated. Donna

Hi Richard, This doesn't quite make sense to me: >My FTDNA, (67 Y Markers Tested), shows overwhelming Scotch and Irish ancestry with Irish being slightly higher than Scotch. Thats not how Y DNA results are reported (in any useful fashion). Are you refering to the familytreedna page of Recent Ancestral Origins? That's not accurate at all. It just sees where people that match you (who have origins) come from. A lot don't list origins and some are wrong. Go with your haplogroup. The haplogroup is of course fuzzy too for a couple reasons: We don't know where they originated (though the scientists have theories -- which change every two years) and who cares -- we want to know where your immediate ancestors were living. If you turn up NW Irish, you can assume they were in Ulster or nearby areas of Scotland -- ie it gives you some clues. What's the haplogroup? And who do you match to? You may find matches with a different surname because surnames are fairly recent, but they're a clue. If you tell us a few of them, maybe we can tell from the surnames where they might have come from, unless it was Glasgow....same surnames in parts of Glasgow as in northern Ireland because so many went over. The point is though that these are statistical and your unique history is unique and not based on statistics. You use the statistics to figure out where the best places are to search. You don't have enough info to search in Scotland. You need to follow George back through the censuses as far as you can. You might find him living as a child in a household with his parents. Anyway the census work will give you an approximate date of birth. Then censuses also tell you where he was born -- what state. You should also try to find an obit for him and see if you can view the actual death record, not a death certificate. This is dependent on the state he died in. What state did he die in? You also need to gather all his siblings, their dates of birth and where they were born from the censuses. These are clues, esp. ones born in Scotland. There are plenty of James Mitchells there, but with the names of children and maybe spouse, you can narrow it down. Since he was born in the USA and his father in Scotland probably his father was in the USA at the time of his birth and you can trace him backwards in the censuses. Then you look for a naturalization record. If he was in the USA in 1812, if he was not naturalized he should be listed as an alien. the book is in Ancestry. You want to search for a naturalization record for the father and then first papers. The first papers are more likely to nail down his origins. However the people who stood for him are critical people. Like in the case of a client of mine whose ancstors claimed to be Scots, the men who stood for him when he naturalized were both first generation Irish. They didn't randomly go somewhere in the USA -- they went to where other people from the family and/or village went. It's called c! hain migration. So you always look up those guys in the censuses and see what you can learn about them. They are clues. Similarly, one of the sons of the Rev. John Black, who also became a minister, witnessed the will of a Kelly ancestor of mine. Why? He died north of the Allegheny and this man's church was in Wilkinsburg. Because of some previous tie, that's why. There were Kellys associated with the Reformed Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg but so far I've not found the origins of mine -- but it is an important clue to where they were before they manifested in Indiana Twp (Allegheny Co). >I apologise to any of those who I may have offended on the list, Actually I did more offending than you today. You didn't offend anyone at all. Good luck! Linda Merle

An Ulster word for an argument - and don't give me a hannelin over that! Boyd Gray http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm http://www.westulstergenealogy.com/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karen Sent: 08 March 2010 20:48 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [S-I] Okay Bit-Map People!! Whoops! what's a hannelin?

In a flood of email this afternoon, I overlooked your email until now, Lee. Better late than never!! It is a really useful and *very specific* addition to the other replies. Adds info no one else mentioned. Actually all the relpies have been like that. Why this List is such a great one!! Since Bristol is the relevant area for James Smith and your revelation that there was even a Bristol Coal & Iron Railroad being built in the same era as the James Smith record I was trying to decipher, is pretty useful, to put it mildly. It sure is a contrast being told that coal wasn't relevant to Bristol!! I assume your reference to 6 months in the job is because of that crossed out 6 in the column titled "No. of months the person was unemployed in the Census year"—I had not known fully how to interpret that. Your interpretation seems a good one! Now, if only success can come in nailing who the grandfather of this James Smith is it will be terrific. His father, John C. Smith b. 1812 Carter County, who resided and died in Sullivan County, is already clear. James was John C.'s eldest son and so it won't be a surprise if the grandfather might turn out to be an earlier James. Getting back one, or preferably 2, generations gives hope of discovering the link with the Scotch-Irish family in New England to which DNA says these TN Smiths are "closely related.* Thanks for our help, Lee!! Ruth Ottawa On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Lee K. Ramsey <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Ruth > > In 1877 the Bristol Coal & Iron Railroad began building its railroad which > ran from Bristol, Sullivan County, Tennessee to Big Stone. Shortly > thereafter, the railroad was transferred to South Atlantic & Ohio Railroad > which ran to the coal fields at Estillville, Scott County, Virginia.  When > the family of James Smith was enumerated in the 1880 U.S. census of Sullivan > County, Tennessee he had only been employed with that job for six months, > and at age 46 this appears to have been a new occupation for him.  He may > have been involved in the unloading or transporting of the coal upon its > arrival at Bristol from the coal fields of Virginia.  Sullivan County, > Tennessee is situated on the border of Virginia. > > Lee Ramsey > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ruth McLaughlin > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:49 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [S-I] a "profession" of a Scotch-Irish inhabitant of Sullivan Co., > Tennessee > > Having difficulty trying to figure out the "profession, occupation or > trade" for the father in an 1880 Sullivan County Census record for > James & Sarah M. Smith and their 7 children. They are part of a > Scotch-Irish family in TN under heavy scrutiny right now. The > census-taker's handwriting is pretty clear and dark, but that still > doesn't seem to help! It reads "Cole Coluer." Any ideas?......

Good word to know! Thanks Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Okay Bit-Map People!! > An Ulster word for an argument - and don't give me a hannelin over that! > > Boyd Gray > > http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm > > http://www.westulstergenealogy.com/ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karen > Sent: 08 March 2010 20:48 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [S-I] Okay Bit-Map People!! > > Whoops! what's a hannelin? > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The replies from all of you, you included Ann, fit together so beautifully giving a glimpse into TN with which a northern researcher wouldn't be familiar. Why I am always telling researchers to subscribe to this List!! Thanks Ann Ruth Ottawa On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Ann Heinz <[email protected]> wrote: > >    The iron furnace and forge business up until around 1850 used charcoal > to melt the iron ore. A charcoal burner or collier was a man who made > charcoal from wood. Small furnaces and forges used charcoal as fuel longer > than the big furnaces which switched to coal. > Those workers were also referred to as "coalers" in business records. >    After the general use of coal as fuel the word "collier" became > synonymous with coal miners. A perfectly good word so why waste it? > Ann > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ruth McLaughlin" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 11:49 AM > Subject: [S-I] a "profession" of a Scotch-Irish inhabitant of Sullivan > Co.,Tennessee > > > Having difficulty trying to figure out the "profession, occupation or > trade" for the father in an 1880 Sullivan County Census record for > James & Sarah M. Smith and their 7 children. They are part of a > Scotch-Irish family in TN under heavy scrutiny right now. The > census-taker's handwriting is pretty clear and dark, but that still > doesn't seem to help! It reads "Cole Coluer." Any ideas? One > suggestion of something to do with coal was ruled out by a local who > tells us there was no coal mining in that area of eastern Tennessee. > The closest coal mining would be a 2-hour drive under modern > conditions. > > The Y-DNA of this man's Smith family matches 37- for 37-markers > (67-marker results espected any day) with several males (and one in > particular) from a well-researched Smith family which was part of 1718 > Scotch-Irish migration from Ulster, settling first in Chester, New > Hampshire and ultimately New Boston, NH. DNA has contributed the first > hint of a southern connection, despite decades of work. > > Any thoughts you might have on the significance of this 37 for 37, > Linda or others, and ow far back, as well as ideas as to James Smith's > "profession" would be appreciated. I have a feeling I may be back with > more questions. Tennessee research is a new field for me, but I know > not so new to many of you. > > Ruth > Ottawa > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4925 (20100308) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4925 (20100308) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Your really useful reply came about as quick as my query. The last sentence opens up the field to a wider range of possibilities which is great. Thanks, Sharon!! R On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Sharon Fontenot <[email protected]> wrote: > Could the word be collier?  Besides meaning a coal miner & a boat that hauls > coal, it can also mean a person who produces or sells charcoal, or a coal > merchant. > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Ruth McLaughlin <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Having difficulty trying to figure out the "profession, occupation or >> trade" for the father in an 1880 Sullivan County Census record for >> James & Sarah M. Smith and their 7 children. They are part of a >> Scotch-Irish family in TN under heavy scrutiny right now. The >> census-taker's handwriting is pretty clear and dark, but that still >> doesn't seem to help! It reads "Cole Coluer." Any ideas? One >> suggestion of something to do with coal was ruled out by a local who >> tells us there was no coal mining in that area of eastern Tennessee. >> The closest coal mining would be a 2-hour drive under modern >> conditions. >> >> The Y-DNA of this man's Smith family matches 37- for 37-markers >> (67-marker results espected any day) with several males (and one in >> particular) from a well-researched Smith family which was part of 1718 >> Scotch-Irish migration from Ulster, settling first in Chester, New >> Hampshire and ultimately New Boston, NH. DNA has contributed the first >> hint of a southern connection, despite decades of work. >> >> Any thoughts you might have on the significance of this 37 for 37, >> Linda or others, and ow far back, as well as ideas as to James Smith's >> "profession" would be appreciated. I have a feeling I may be back with >> more questions. Tennessee research is a new field for me, but I know >> not so new to many of you. >> >> Ruth >> Ottawa >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have read your email more than once, Michael, and will read it again. It is a great education esp the info about SW Virginia and Sullivan County being downriver from coal areas in VA Really useful and just plain interesting too. Thank you. The relevant area of Sullivan County would, I think, fit the characteristic of being on, or close to, the state line—Bristol and Bluff City. One piece of info that has come to light since my query is that the "cole coluer" James Smith died in 1918 of TB. Wonder if his involvement in some aspect or other of coal would have lead to his final diagnosis and death. Thanks again. Ruth Ottawa On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:52 PM, Montgomery Michael <[email protected]> wrote: > > The man was a collier (according to the OED, "one whose occupation or trade is to procure or supply coal (formerly charcoal); one engaged in the coal trade").  I don't know what part of Sullivan County is involved here, but ....

My family left Ulster in 1716 for Massachusetts, settling finally in the Lisburn Proprietary, now Pelham. The name is Crossett. A book claims the original name was du Crozat, a Huguenot. It spells out who he married, how many children with dates only for the boys, and where his farm was. Another generation follows with similar details. The third generation came to America. That is documented. The story has always made me doubtful since there are no references given other than that the family had had research done in 1927 in Ireland. What is the opinion of the list as to whether such information could have been then or could today be found? Tom

If I remember what I gleaned from some info a few years back, that my Quaker ancestors moved from the Ireland Scotland area and back to England and over to America.. It has been a number of years since I researched these lines, but I remember that they used a strange route. Marlene On Mar 1, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Montgomery Michael wrote: > Hello Linda > > Your recent exposition, with many links, on indentured servants is a > posting to be kept, and I have printed it off and put it securely into > my box of "indentured servant" materials.  One statement that you made > in particular caught my eye, which is about the estimate of 90% of the > early settlers in some parts of Virginia being from Ulster.  You say > "it is estimated," but by whom?  I cannot use this information without > a source.  Is it from Leyburn?  And which parts of Virginia? > > Michael > > --- On Wed, 2/3/10, [email protected] > <[email protected]> wrote: > From: [email protected] > <[email protected]> > Subject: SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 5, Issue 13 > To: [email protected] > Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 3:01 AM > > Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:57:51 +0000 (UTC) > From: [email protected] > Subject: [S-I] Indentured Servants > To: List <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > > Hi folks, > > I am forwarding on the URL for this website although it does not > directly relate to the so-called "Scotch-Irish" who supposedly > evacuated from Ulster, not London. My reasons are that so many came > over that they dominated an area of the Americans that is roughly the > size of Europe. We call this area today, roughly, "Appalachia". What > this dominance means, according to the books I've read, such as > Leyburn's "The Scotch-Irish", is that their culture predominated. We > are all familiar with cultural dominance. It is like when anyone comes > here: the immigrant generation talks funny, dresses funny, has funny > customs, eats funny food, but the children are indistinguishable from > children 'born here' to native Americans -- they eat American food, > they talk American, they dress American, they have American values, > etc. The same works for migrants to Australia, England, France, > Mongolia....where-ever. Small groups or families moving into a larger > culture tend to > assimilate into the large!. > > So while there are areas of Virginia where it is estimated 90% of the > early settlers originated in Ulster, there is the 10%. And in some > areas the percentage is believed to be much higher. But they all > became "Scotch-Irish", which is actually the name of an American > ethnic group, not an Ulster one.... > > ... > > Linda Merle > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Donna: Would you have access to the names of maybe the larger families? Not only do I have German ancestors who came to America in the 1700's but family who were those called Scots-Irish. I have located some of both types back to Germany and Scotland and Ireland, but would sure like more info. Marlene On Mar 2, 2010, at 11:55 AM, Donna Nichols wrote: > Facts about Appalachia...where I lived and taught for quite a while, > where my husband's family came..in the 1700's and established towns, > (literally), and where I have been pretty well acclimated and accepted > in. > > The Appalachia region was settled by two major groups..Germans (came > through PA and down through the Cumberland Gap into East TN and > Western N.C, and western VA, and SW KY)..their names changed from > Weber to Weaver (have the proof)..they were not necessarily poor..but > were not accepted in the areas they came into in PA. The second > group..came in from the coast..many had been indentured servants..many > of whom left indentured status before the period was up, and went > outside the 'civilized' areas and headed into the mountains. Many > have Bibles which show where they come from..and many did come from > Northern Ireland and were Presbyterian. But their names were the > Scottish spellings not the Irish, yet a number came through northern > Ireland. There were also a large number of Irish Quakers...who came > into PA, and also into the coastal areas of NC..and moved to central > NC and then on into East TN (the State of Franklin) which was > originally a part of VA. They settled in and! > established Quaker communities such as Quakers' Knob and established > schools which are now public schools. They are not included in what > is known as the Scotch-Irish community. The Scotch-Irish community > which isolated itself from the Germans and the Quakers, remained in > the hollows, the back areas where they could stay hidden and maintain > their lives without being bothered...and many still do today. Many > times I had trouble understanding the English of a number of the > students..because they spoke an older form of English which has been > maintained. Many of these people, much as I hate to say it, harbor > today a distrust of Catholics..and call them non-Christian (along with > the Episcopalians) stating they 'worship Mary'. I heard far too many > of them say this. They can trace their ancestry back to Northern > Ireland and Scotland. They brought with them the techniques of making > damn good whisky..including how to age it properly..I know..I have had > it! They were the ones! > who shipped their corn to market in 'barrels' not in bushels..because > they floated the barrels on rafts. My husband's 4th great was a > trader who knew where to get the 'finest' whiskey in the world outside > of Scotland and Ireland, and floated it down river each spring when > the rivers rose with the melting snow. My husband is considered 'one > of them' and we safely go in areas where most don't go. His family > left the area of Cocke County in the early 1800's but he is still > considered family (and was related to about half his students). We > have learned where to look for information in that area. > My one side of my family was basically chased out of Northern > Ireland..Irish Presbyterian minister..removed from Ireland...and I > have a lot of those records. > > BTW, the reasons so many wound up in the Smokies..first..much like > 'home' to them as to land and subsistence farming. Second, they could > stay 'under cover' so to speak. They were tough survivors, could deal > with harsher conditions, isolation, education was not important to > many of them. Many just suddenly appear and unless you know them, you > will find they just suddenly appear in the 1700's in that region with > no hints as to where they had been or came from. > > Donna > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I'm new to the Scotch-Irish digest. My maiden name is McKee, which I understand to be SI. My full name is Jennifer Louise McKee Roussin. My father is Joseph Robert McKee. He was a petroleum engineer. His sister is Mary Judith McKee Shaw, and his brother (now deceased) was Mark Bennett McKee. Joseph McKee's father was Ned Hamilton McKee, born in Roachport Missouri in 1905, died in 1951. Ned was a farmer, then sold insurance, and he worked on building the Bagnell Dam in southwest Missouri. He also worked for the Army Contruction Brigade building roads, bridges, and dams. He lived in St. Charles, Louisiana for a time, as well as Yakima, Washington, and Minneapolis, Minnesota. He later worked on building roads and dams in Venezuela. Ned McKee's parents were Guy and Daisy Pearson McKee. Ned's brothers were Pearson and Wallace. My grandfather Ned was first married to Margaret White. They had 2 children - Daisy Ann and Jerry McKee. He then divorced his first wife and married Marian Bennett Swartley, my dad's mother. Ned and his McKee line were from Roachport Missouri, and Fayette Missouri. My father Joseph, his sister Mary Judith, and their descendants now live mostly in St. Louis, Misosuri. My aunt on my father's side has said that we are from the McKee's in Kentucky, and she believes they were farmers and owned slaves, but I'm not sure what her source for that information was. If anyone knows of any of these McKee's, I would appreciate any information. I would also like to know about the Kentucky McKee's - was there one line of Kentucky McKee's, what did they do, when did they arrive from Ulster, ect. Thank you very much. Jennifer McKee Roussin

I'm a bit late to the bit-map discussion (sorry, couldn't resist) but for what it's worth a lecturer on the S-I in America said that John C. Calhoun was considered to have the arch-typical S-I countenance so you could use his picture. <grin> Sara

Linda, You beat me to the punch :-) Yes, it is impossible to tell via Y-DNA testing how much scotch or irish one has in oneself unless it came in a bottle ;-) By the way, FWIW, my wife's family are Casey - staunch R.C.. Don't ask how I survived as a Presbyterian at their gatherings, but we love each other :-) ...lol... They all claim to have an unbroken line of Irish R.C.s going back to Saint Paddy himself... Last month I posted some of their family information on the Co. Cork site and had FTDNA send my brother-in-law a Y-DNA test kit. I also checked with FTDNAs Casey group. Much to my surprise guess what I found!!! The Casey lines there trace their ancestry back to Scotland and Protestants. Now that was a shocking suprise and a half. Needless to say my wife's Casey family has not commented on that...yet... ;-) Cliff. Johnston "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see;" from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > Hi Richard, > > This doesn't quite make sense to me: >>My FTDNA, (67 Y Markers Tested), shows overwhelming Scotch and Irish >>ancestry with Irish being slightly higher than Scotch. > > Thats not how Y DNA results are reported (in any useful fashion). Are you > refering to the familytreedna page of Recent Ancestral Origins? That's not > accurate at all. It just sees where people that match you (who have > origins) come from. A lot don't list origins and some are wrong. > > Go with your haplogroup. The haplogroup is of course fuzzy too for a > couple reasons: We don't know where they originated (though the scientists > have theories -- which change every two years) and who cares -- we want to > know where your immediate ancestors were living. If you turn up NW Irish, > you can assume they were in Ulster or nearby areas of Scotland -- ie it > gives you some clues. > > What's the haplogroup? And who do you match to? You may find matches with > a different > surname because surnames are fairly recent, but they're a clue. If you > tell us a few of > them, maybe we can tell from the surnames where they might have come from, > unless it was > Glasgow....same surnames in parts of Glasgow as in northern Ireland > because so many > went over. > > The point is though that these are statistical and your unique history is > unique and not based on statistics. You use the statistics to figure out > where the best places are to search. > > You don't have enough info to search in Scotland. You need to follow > George back through the censuses as far as you can. You might find him > living as a child in a household with his parents. Anyway the census work > will give you an approximate date of birth. Then censuses also tell you > where he was born -- what state. You should also try to find an obit for > him and see if you can view the actual death record, not a death > certificate. This is dependent on the state he died in. What state did he > die in? > > You also need to gather all his siblings, their dates of birth and where > they were born > from the censuses. These are clues, esp. ones born in Scotland. There are > plenty of James Mitchells there, but with the names of children and maybe > spouse, you can narrow it down. Since he was born in the USA and his > father in Scotland probably his father was in the USA at the time of his > birth and you can trace him backwards in the censuses. Then you look for a > naturalization record. If he was in the USA in 1812, if he was not > naturalized he should be listed as an alien. the book is in Ancestry. You > want to search for a naturalization record for the father and then first > papers. The first papers are more likely to nail down his origins. However > the people who stood for him are critical people. Like in the case of a > client of mine whose ancstors claimed to be Scots, the men who stood for > him when he naturalized were both first generation Irish. They didn't > randomly go somewhere in the USA -- they went to where other people from > the family and/or village went. It's called c! > hain migration. So you always look up those guys in the censuses and see > what you can learn about them. They are clues. > > Similarly, one of the sons of the Rev. John Black, who also became a > minister, witnessed the > will of a Kelly ancestor of mine. Why? He died north of the Allegheny and > this man's church > was in Wilkinsburg. Because of some previous tie, that's why. There were > Kellys associated > with the Reformed Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg but so far I've not > found the origins > of mine -- but it is an important clue to where they were before they > manifested in Indiana > Twp (Allegheny Co). > >>I apologise to any of those who I may have offended on the list, > > Actually I did more offending than you today. You didn't offend anyone at > all. > > Good luck! > > Linda Merle > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A wee hannelin. Is that good or bad? Boyd Gray http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm http://www.westulstergenealogy.com/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cliff. Johnston Sent: 08 March 2010 14:47 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [S-I] Okay Bit-Map People!! Ach, then one gets into the argument about which whisky label to use... ;-) SNIP

Being roasted on the end of a stick by a big green leprachaun?? Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn Otterson" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 10:16:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group I think the only thing that would work is a picture of you, Linda. Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group >I LOVE it!!! > > Linda Merle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cliff. Johnston" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 8:59:25 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group > > Hmmm, or a leprachan with a surprised look sitting on a thistle ;-) > > Cliff. Johnston > "May the best you've ever seen, > Be the worst you'll ever see;" > from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:32 AM > Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group > > >> Hi Boyd, your symbol works for you, but in Tennessee, I am not sure >> anyone >> would understand it. >> We'd have to spend lots of Euros/dollars doing market research to be sure >> of course. The first >> time I ran into the Red Hand was in a book. It makes no sense here. You'd >> have to explain it. >> >> That's one of this ethnic group's problems: we became different in the >> various places we went to. >> One person suggested to me a symbol with the Union flag ....well now, >> that >> won't work in Tennessee >> either. It makes the bearer seem like a Tory (in the American sense : ie >> a >> Loyalist in the American >> Revolution, descendents now in Canada). >> >> Perhaps a shamrock impaled on a thistle kind of gets the point across in >> a >> universal fashion? >> (just joking!) >> >> Linda Merle >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

How embarrassing....I posted this to the whole group? Well there goes my diplomatic appointment. I guess the idiots are not just on the streets drinking green beer this time of year. Some of us are inside self-destructing or exposing ourselves to be sectarian jokesters....... Someone's going to show up at my door and revoke my Irish genes now. And so much for that mascarade of being a 'peace and love' kind of person, not that too many were fooled. Mea culpa.... Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff. Johnston" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 10:04:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group Linda, See, good things do happen ;-) I have an artist friend in Canada who could probably do a great job with this poster idea...lol... I should copy this thread and send it to her to see if she has any interest...lol... Cliff. "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see;" from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group >I think you can sell this idea to the Loyalists for a huge wall mural ><grin>! They won't have a problem deciding where the thistle goes <grin>. >Wow, I'm cheered up now. I don't even mind my newdog ran away (but came >back) and my computer went south (but now works again) or that it is a week >till St. Patricks Day when all the idiots hit the streets!! > > Linda > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cliff. Johnston" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 9:50:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group > > Thank you :-) > > Now we just have to decide where the thistle hits his bare bottom ;-) > > Cliff. > "May the best you've ever seen, > Be the worst you'll ever see;" > from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 8:14 AM > Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group > > >>I LOVE it!!! >> >> Linda Merle >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Cliff. Johnston" <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 8:59:25 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group >> >> Hmmm, or a leprachan with a surprised look sitting on a thistle ;-) >> >> Cliff. Johnston >> "May the best you've ever seen, >> Be the worst you'll ever see;" >> from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:32 AM >> Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group >> >> >>> Hi Boyd, your symbol works for you, but in Tennessee, I am not sure >>> anyone >>> would understand it. >>> We'd have to spend lots of Euros/dollars doing market research to be >>> sure >>> of course. The first >>> time I ran into the Red Hand was in a book. It makes no sense here. >>> You'd >>> have to explain it. >>> >>> That's one of this ethnic group's problems: we became different in the >>> various places we went to. >>> One person suggested to me a symbol with the Union flag ....well now, >>> that >>> won't work in Tennessee >>> either. It makes the bearer seem like a Tory (in the American sense : ie >>> a >>> Loyalist in the American >>> Revolution, descendents now in Canada). >>> >>> Perhaps a shamrock impaled on a thistle kind of gets the point across in >>> a >>> universal fashion? >>> (just joking!) >>> >>> Linda Merle >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Whoops! what's a hannelin? ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] Okay Bit-Map People!! >A wee hannelin. Is that good or bad? > > > Boyd Gray > > http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm > > http://www.westulstergenealogy.com/ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cliff. Johnston > Sent: 08 March 2010 14:47 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [S-I] Okay Bit-Map People!! > > Ach, then one gets into the argument about which whisky label to use... > ;-) > SNIP > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think you can sell this idea to the Loyalists for a huge wall mural <grin>! They won't have a problem deciding where the thistle goes <grin>. Wow, I'm cheered up now. I don't even mind my newdog ran away (but came back) and my computer went south (but now works again) or that it is a week till St. Patricks Day when all the idiots hit the streets!! Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff. Johnston" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 9:50:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group Thank you :-) Now we just have to decide where the thistle hits his bare bottom ;-) Cliff. "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see;" from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group >I LOVE it!!! > > Linda Merle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cliff. Johnston" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 8:59:25 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group > > Hmmm, or a leprachan with a surprised look sitting on a thistle ;-) > > Cliff. Johnston > "May the best you've ever seen, > Be the worst you'll ever see;" > from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:32 AM > Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group > > >> Hi Boyd, your symbol works for you, but in Tennessee, I am not sure >> anyone >> would understand it. >> We'd have to spend lots of Euros/dollars doing market research to be sure >> of course. The first >> time I ran into the Red Hand was in a book. It makes no sense here. You'd >> have to explain it. >> >> That's one of this ethnic group's problems: we became different in the >> various places we went to. >> One person suggested to me a symbol with the Union flag ....well now, >> that >> won't work in Tennessee >> either. It makes the bearer seem like a Tory (in the American sense : ie >> a >> Loyalist in the American >> Revolution, descendents now in Canada). >> >> Perhaps a shamrock impaled on a thistle kind of gets the point across in >> a >> universal fashion? >> (just joking!) >> >> Linda Merle >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message