My thanks for the tip on Gustav Anjou. I will be all over this lead. The 1927 research was after the fire and commissioned by a wealthy relative. He then hired a genealogist to add the American families to it. It all seems very clear cut and "pat". Too pat for me from that time. Errors of fact are also found. eg. One son and his wife went to Australia to live in 1708! 50 years before anyone else settled there. It must have been lonely:) Birthdates were given for the boys and not the girls. If the info was collected from church records, why not both? One son "joined the English Army". How did they find that out? The name change from Antoine du Crozat to Crossett in two generations also is puzzling. There were three Antoine du Crozats we know of in that generation. Two of them lived in the British Isles, one in Dublin. The other was governor of Louisiana. They were all very wealthy. Reseach is positive in showing that none of them was in Carrickfergus on a small farm at that time. Inventing genealogy out of whole cloth is nothing new, but rooting it out is very important. Every Crossett researcher I know considers the Irish stuff as gospel. I'm a sceptic. Thanks for the feedback! Tom

Googling just now, I came up with the obituary for one of my McKees who was a trustee in the Wilkinsburg congregation at the time of his death in 1893. It appeared in the Reformed and Covenanter newsletter. Most copies of the newsletter, from 1864 to 1895 are in the online archives of the RP Seminary <http://www.rparchives.org/refprescov.html>. Didn't see anything specific to the congregation, but I also didn't go beyond the first page of links. Hugh Nevin On Mar 9, 2010, at 5:27 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Hi Bill, I haven't googled recently so I can't tell you what there is > on line for the RP church in Wilkinsburg. > > The RP Seminary library is just up the road apiece. I don't know what > they got either since when I visited > there last I hadn't revisited the will of my ancestor (collected by > mother and sister) and as a result of a lot > of learning, realized that the witness to the will was now known to > me. I guess I should go back. > > Linda > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William McKinney" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 2:26:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > Howdy Linda, > > Just curious. Are there any accounts on line relating to the Reformed > Presbyterian Church in Wilkinsburg. That's where my McKinneys ended up > after > selling their Braddocks Field farm to Andrew Carnegie for his steel > works. > > Bill McKinney > In Erie (which, yes, got precious little snow this year compared to > last)

Actually you have missed the cultural point which Ella made. Scotch is spelt Whisky, while Irish Whiskey (Bush, Jamisons, Powers and the like) are spelt whiskey. The point which Ella was making was that even if we chose whisk(e)y as out symbol there is a difference between the Irish and the Scotch. Actually if we were reflecting the Ulster part our Whiskey would need to be Bush or Comber, not Jamison's which is from Dublin. Edward > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Charles O'Neill > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:21 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [S-I] Whisky or not > > Actually (we can learn to spell that ["actually"] too), > "whisky" and "whiskey" are both acceptable spellings (at > least in the U.S.) and - also in the U.S., "whisky" > (according to Webster, that American rogue who decried > British spellings and did his best to break away from British > spellings by simplifying them for his American audience), > "whisky" seems to be the preferred spelling in the U.S. > dictionaries I've looked in. Anyways, I spell "whisky" as "Jamesons." > > Charles O'Neill :-) > > > > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:39:13 +0000 > > From: Ella Patterson <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group > > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: > > > > > <[email protected]ac.uk > > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Or indeed how to actuall spell whisk(e)y! > > Ella > > > > > > Ella Patterson > > Cataloguing Department > > Room 222, Floor 2 > > The Library at Queen's > > The Queen's University of Belfast > > 10 College Park > > Belfast > > BT7 1LP > > > > Telephone: +44 28 9097 6246 > > Email : [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My preference is for TN whisky...better known as 'shine'...not the everclear stuff, but the true TN corn whisky, the rich amber colour (color) which was made in our neighborhood (neighbourhood)..and it was made with care, carefully avoiding the feds...bought in mason jars. This is the true 'sippin' whisky..but the first sip will have you wondering IF or WHEN you will be able to breathe again. A small glass of it lasts a long time, and you best figure on not driving again. It has a sweet taste and smell..it is smooth, and the amber colour stands next to the finest whiskies and single malt scotches and blends right in. These are the ones aged in oak barrels, made from old family recipes. This isn't the shine made in new stills, where someone used lead in welding which leaches out into the shine, then the results put in a mason jar and you have what looks like clear water... In the one post, mention was made of the shortening of words in America..so I couldn't resist above.. But on the above whisky...sitting on a big front porch overlooking the river, SIPPING a bit of corn (knowing that when I arise from the chair my feet will be 6 feet away (I am 5'2:") as I look down...and I moved slowly to the steps, and definitely use the handrail going down the steps to see the flowers...I figure that batch was close to 180 proof..and glad I don't have to drive. That was on an ounce and a half, sipped over an hour's time. It does have a sweet, light fragrant to it..and the kick of Paul Bunyan's Blue MULE (he also had the famed Babe the Blue Ox).. That was my intro to Tennessee sippin' whisky. I really hope the art of making true Mountain 'shine, the good stuff, is not lost. We all know it is illegal..and badly and cheaply made shine can be deadly..but the properly made is an art and a tradition of the Scotch-Irish in the Smokies. Donna..who is just finishing her first cup of coffee...and reminiscing about that afternoon about 15 years ago... BTW, I did NOT have a hangover the next day..

The reason I suggested, half kidding, that we use a bottle of Bushmills whiskey for our logo, was partly because of an experience my husband and I had about 10 years ago on a trip to Northern Ireland. The night before our visit to the distillery there had been a kind of hurricane...high winds, driving rain, cold temperatures...that battered the ancient and weathered B&B where were staying near the coast in Co. Antrim. Water came in around the windows, leaves and branches flew from the trees, and the wind howled around the old, stone house and whipped up the nearby seaside water. In the morning, after our giant breakfast, as we left the B&B we could hardly open the car doors, the wind was so strong, trying to force the doors shut. It was chilly and dreary. Where would we go? The weather was miserable, the heater in the car didn't work very well, and we didn't want to get soaked while walking. Looking at the map, I found that we were not too far from Bushmills and we decided to head to that village, hoping that the weather would improve. By the time we reached the place, the wind had abated along with much of the rain, but it was still too cold and damp to do much walking. BUT...there, through the gloom, we saw the sign for the distillery. It was not quite 10 o'clock, but we decided to stop to see what time the place opened, hoping to find a place to get warm. It did happen that we had to wait a bit for the place to open,but finally we were admitted and allowed to take a tour with two other couples who had also wandered in. The tour of the distillery (the oldest in the world, founded in 1608) was interesting, the place warm and fragrant with the scent of whiskey making. At the end of the tour we were taken to the hospitality center where there was to be a whiskey tasting. Neither my husband nor I are whiskey drinkers, but somehow, of the group, we were chosen as the tasters. I was surprised to find that Bushmills makes several other well-known whiskeys. Anyway, we duly and dutifully tasted and, of course, chose Bushmills as our favorite, got a large certificate as certified tasters, roamed through the store, and when we left, the sun was starting to shine weakly through the mist. For some reason this whole "adventure" still reminds my of Northern Ireland. After leaving the town, we drove for a couple of hours through the countryside, past farms and small villages, on a back road where there was very little traffic. Rounding a corner after passing a large farm and in a field about 50 feet from the road, there was suddenly the sight of four pink bottoms gleaming at us through the mist. We were being mooned by some school boys! It was so funny to see because it was still cold and breezy and they must have been waiting quite awhile for a car to pass. We tooted the horn as we passed the kids. It was a day of odd memories...an ancient B&B, a hurricane, whiskey in the morning, a ride through beautiful countryside, and bare bottoms. I guess that's why sometimes as I think of Northern Ireland I think of Bushmills... Marilyn in New Hampshire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Andrews" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:45 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] Whisky or not > Actually you have missed the cultural point which Ella made. > Scotch is spelt Whisky, while Irish Whiskey (Bush, Jamisons, Powers and > the > like) are spelt whiskey. > The point which Ella was making was that even if we chose whisk(e)y as out > symbol there is a difference between the Irish and the Scotch. > > Actually if we were reflecting the Ulster part our Whiskey would need to > be > Bush or Comber, not Jamison's which is from Dublin. > Edward > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> Charles O'Neill >> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:21 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [S-I] Whisky or not >> >> Actually (we can learn to spell that ["actually"] too), >> "whisky" and "whiskey" are both acceptable spellings (at >> least in the U.S.) and - also in the U.S., "whisky" >> (according to Webster, that American rogue who decried >> British spellings and did his best to break away from British >> spellings by simplifying them for his American audience), >> "whisky" seems to be the preferred spelling in the U.S. >> dictionaries I've looked in. Anyways, I spell "whisky" as "Jamesons." >> >> Charles O'Neill :-) >> >> >> >> >> >> > Message: 1 >> > Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:39:13 +0000 >> > From: Ella Patterson <[email protected]> >> > Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group >> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> > Message-ID: >> > >> > >> <[email protected]ac.uk >> > > >> > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> > >> > Or indeed how to actuall spell whisk(e)y! >> > Ella >> > >> > >> > Ella Patterson >> > Cataloguing Department >> > Room 222, Floor 2 >> > The Library at Queen's >> > The Queen's University of Belfast >> > 10 College Park >> > Belfast >> > BT7 1LP >> > >> > Telephone: +44 28 9097 6246 >> > Email : [email protected] >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

learn something every day and I am aware of the cultural difference btw Jameson's and Bushmill's -- but with my background, I prefer Jameson's. :-) Charles O'Neill Edward Andrews wrote: > Actually you have missed the cultural point which Ella made. > Scotch is spelt Whisky, while Irish Whiskey (Bush, Jamisons, Powers and the > like) are spelt whiskey. > The point which Ella was making was that even if we chose whisk(e)y as out > symbol there is a difference between the Irish and the Scotch. > > Actually if we were reflecting the Ulster part our Whiskey would need to be > Bush or Comber, not Jamison's which is from Dublin. > Edward > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> Charles O'Neill >> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:21 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [S-I] Whisky or not >> >> Actually (we can learn to spell that ["actually"] too), >> "whisky" and "whiskey" are both acceptable spellings (at >> least in the U.S.) and - also in the U.S., "whisky" >> (according to Webster, that American rogue who decried >> British spellings and did his best to break away from British >> spellings by simplifying them for his American audience), >> "whisky" seems to be the preferred spelling in the U.S. >> dictionaries I've looked in. Anyways, I spell "whisky" as "Jamesons." >> >> Charles O'Neill :-) >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:39:13 +0000 >>> From: Ella Patterson <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group >>> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: >>> >>> >>> >> <[email protected]ac.uk >> >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Or indeed how to actuall spell whisk(e)y! >>> Ella >>> >>> >>> Ella Patterson >>> Cataloguing Department >>> Room 222, Floor 2 >>> The Library at Queen's >>> The Queen's University of Belfast >>> 10 College Park >>> Belfast >>> BT7 1LP >>> >>> Telephone: +44 28 9097 6246 >>> Email : [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >

Hi Bill, I haven't googled recently so I can't tell you what there is on line for the RP church in Wilkinsburg. The RP Seminary library is just up the road apiece. I don't know what they got either since when I visited there last I hadn't revisited the will of my ancestor (collected by mother and sister) and as a result of a lot of learning, realized that the witness to the will was now known to me. I guess I should go back. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "William McKinney" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 2:26:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Howdy Linda, Just curious. Are there any accounts on line relating to the Reformed Presbyterian Church in Wilkinsburg. That's where my McKinneys ended up after selling their Braddocks Field farm to Andrew Carnegie for his steel works. Bill McKinney In Erie (which, yes, got precious little snow this year compared to last) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 5:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Hi Richard, This doesn't quite make sense to me: >My FTDNA, (67 Y Markers Tested), shows overwhelming Scotch and Irish ancestry with Irish being slightly higher than Scotch. Thats not how Y DNA results are reported (in any useful fashion). Are you refering to the familytreedna page of Recent Ancestral Origins? That's not accurate at all. It just sees where people that match you (who have origins) come from. A lot don't list origins and some are wrong. Go with your haplogroup. The haplogroup is of course fuzzy too for a couple reasons: We don't know where they originated (though the scientists have theories -- which change every two years) and who cares -- we want to know where your immediate ancestors were living. If you turn up NW Irish, you can assume they were in Ulster or nearby areas of Scotland -- ie it gives you some clues. What's the haplogroup? And who do you match to? You may find matches with a different surname because surnames are fairly recent, but they're a clue. If you tell us a few of them, maybe we can tell from the surnames where they might have come from, unless it was Glasgow....same surnames in parts of Glasgow as in northern Ireland because so many went over. The point is though that these are statistical and your unique history is unique and not based on statistics. You use the statistics to figure out where the best places are to search. You don't have enough info to search in Scotland. You need to follow George back through the censuses as far as you can. You might find him living as a child in a household with his parents. Anyway the census work will give you an approximate date of birth. Then censuses also tell you where he was born -- what state. You should also try to find an obit for him and see if you can view the actual death record, not a death certificate. This is dependent on the state he died in. What state did he die in? You also need to gather all his siblings, their dates of birth and where they were born from the censuses. These are clues, esp. ones born in Scotland. There are plenty of James Mitchells there, but with the names of children and maybe spouse, you can narrow it down. Since he was born in the USA and his father in Scotland probably his father was in the USA at the time of his birth and you can trace him backwards in the censuses. Then you look for a naturalization record. If he was in the USA in 1812, if he was not naturalized he should be listed as an alien. the book is in Ancestry. You want to search for a naturalization record for the father and then first papers. The first papers are more likely to nail down his origins. However the people who stood for him are critical people. Like in the case of a client of mine whose ancstors claimed to be Scots, the men who stood for him when he naturalized were both first generation Irish. They didn't randomly go somewhere in the USA -- they went to where other people from the family and/or village went. It's called c! hain migration. So you always look up those guys in the censuses and see what you can learn about them. They are clues. Similarly, one of the sons of the Rev. John Black, who also became a minister, witnessed the will of a Kelly ancestor of mine. Why? He died north of the Allegheny and this man's church was in Wilkinsburg. Because of some previous tie, that's why. There were Kellys associated with the Reformed Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg but so far I've not found the origins of mine -- but it is an important clue to where they were before they manifested in Indiana Twp (Allegheny Co). >I apologise to any of those who I may have offended on the list, Actually I did more offending than you today. You didn't offend anyone at all. Good luck! Linda Merle ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Anyone whose family had research done from America in the 1920s or thereabouts, especially if it is impressive and well connected and goes back a long way into interesting and picturesque times and looks like it cost money, needs to check that it did not come from the slimy hand of Gustav Anjou. Who did indeed charge lots of money, and who did provide a pretty and apparently documented genealogy, but who invented hundreds of genealogies out of thin air. Look him up on the web; there are several sites. I myself traced Anjou's work in the accepted genealogy of my Co Derry families, with help from the website owner of http://www.torrens.org.uk If someone from America did not employ Anjou, but did real research themselves or employed a real researcher, before the Public Record Offie went up in smoke, it is always possible that their material is irreplaceable and might preserve information that no one else could ever get. I really hope that this is the case with your Crosset family, but I would be afraid that Anjou has been at his filthy work Linde Lunney

lol...I knew that as soon as I sent my reply that "whisky" would raise the ire of "whiskey" afficianados. Actually my preference is for Crown Royal whisky - according to their label... ;-) Cliff. Johnston "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see;" from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles O'Neill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:21 PM Subject: [S-I] Whisky or not > Actually (we can learn to spell that ["actually"] too), "whisky" and > "whiskey" are both acceptable spellings (at least in the U.S.) and - > also in the U.S., "whisky" (according to Webster, that American rogue > who decried British spellings and did his best to break away from > British spellings by simplifying them for his American audience), > "whisky" seems to be the preferred spelling in the U.S. dictionaries > I've looked in. Anyways, I spell "whisky" as "Jamesons." > > Charles O'Neill :-) > > > > > >> Message: 1 >> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:39:13 +0000 >> From: Ella Patterson <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group >> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: >> <[email protected]ac.uk> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Or indeed how to actuall spell whisk(e)y! >> Ella >> >> >> Ella Patterson >> Cataloguing Department >> Room 222, Floor 2 >> The Library at Queen's >> The Queen's University of Belfast >> 10 College Park >> Belfast >> BT7 1LP >> >> Telephone: +44 28 9097 6246 >> Email : [email protected] >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Actually (we can learn to spell that ["actually"] too), "whisky" and "whiskey" are both acceptable spellings (at least in the U.S.) and - also in the U.S., "whisky" (according to Webster, that American rogue who decried British spellings and did his best to break away from British spellings by simplifying them for his American audience), "whisky" seems to be the preferred spelling in the U.S. dictionaries I've looked in. Anyways, I spell "whisky" as "Jamesons." Charles O'Neill :-) > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:39:13 +0000 > From: Ella Patterson <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]ac.uk> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Or indeed how to actuall spell whisk(e)y! > Ella > > > Ella Patterson > Cataloguing Department > Room 222, Floor 2 > The Library at Queen's > The Queen's University of Belfast > 10 College Park > Belfast > BT7 1LP > > Telephone: +44 28 9097 6246 > Email : [email protected] > > > >

Mine is Baileys whiskey as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baileys_Irish_Cream Thanks, David C Abernathy Email disclaimers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message represents the official view of the voices in my head. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.SchmeckAbernathy.com == All outgoing and incoming mail is scanned by F-Prot Antivirus  == -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cliff. Johnston Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 5:25 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [S-I] Whisky or not lol...I knew that as soon as I sent my reply that "whisky" would raise the ire of "whiskey" afficianados. Actually my preference is for Crown Royal whisky - according to their label... ;-) Cliff. Johnston "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see;" from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles O'Neill" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:21 PM Subject: [S-I] Whisky or not > Actually (we can learn to spell that ["actually"] too), "whisky" and > "whiskey" are both acceptable spellings (at least in the U.S.) and - > also in the U.S., "whisky" (according to Webster, that American rogue > who decried British spellings and did his best to break away from > British spellings by simplifying them for his American audience), > "whisky" seems to be the preferred spelling in the U.S. dictionaries > I've looked in. Anyways, I spell "whisky" as "Jamesons." > > Charles O'Neill :-) > > > > > >> Message: 1 >> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:39:13 +0000 >> From: Ella Patterson <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group >> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: >> <[email protected]ac.uk> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Or indeed how to actuall spell whisk(e)y! >> Ella >> >> >> Ella Patterson >> Cataloguing Department >> Room 222, Floor 2 >> The Library at Queen's >> The Queen's University of Belfast >> 10 College Park >> Belfast >> BT7 1LP >> >> Telephone: +44 28 9097 6246 >> Email : [email protected] >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

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That was fascinating. I had to look the scoundrel up and found this interesting description on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Anjou Sharon Oddie Brown Roberts Creek, BC, Canada History Project: http://www.thesilverbowl.com/ Some Become Flowers: http://www.harbourpublishing.com/title/SomeBecomeFlowers Family Tree: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=silverbowl

I have felt part of American History for sometime, about the time I found my first ancestor way back. I wish Dr Gates would do some searching for poor little old me! Marlene On Mar 6, 2010, at 5:41 PM, Penny Bonnar wrote: > I just watched the Sarah Jessica Parker episode on Hulu and thought it > was a bit contrived. No visits to Family History Centers to strain her > eyes over microfilm. And how many of us can afford to hire researchers > to do the real legwork, let alone hop on a plane and hail a cab to > take us where the next trail leads? When I go off on my genealogy > journeys, it's usually with a prayer that my car makes it there and > back one more time, and my nights are spent in budget motel rooms > because I'd rather spend the money to rent another film or pay for > copies at the courthouse. > > Despite my criticism, however, I thought it was interesting in that it > showed that our family history can be full of surprising little and > even not so little details that pop up every so often in our research. > That point was clearly part of Parker's story. And those surprises are > a big part of the fun of it. > > I also liked how Parker now feels herself to be part of American > history---thanks to her family's story. History really does take on > new meaning with every generation we trace back. > > I'm sure this series will spark people's interest. But I also hope > that people will not be scared off because they think they need the > kind of money Parker has to search for their ancestors. > > Penny Bonnar > > On Mar 6, 2010, at 1:37 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> Hi folks, the first episode of this show aired Friday night. Nothing >> Scotch Irish came up but I am curious how people found it who >> watched? >> >> You can watch it at Hulu if you missed it and have broadband: >> http://www.hulu.com/who-do-you-think-you-are >> >> Anyone know if the British show is on line free anywhere??? >> >> I watched it and enjoyed. I had attempted to watch the PBS show but >> found it rather slow paced. >> >> Linda Merle >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

pretty interesting. Marlene On Mar 6, 2010, at 2:47 PM, Linda Dolan wrote: > I found it interesting, also the availability of records was nice. The > best part was having someone to do the legwork for you !!!  > Linda Dolan > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, March 6, 2010 1:37:05 PM > Subject: [S-I] Who Do You Think You Are (American Version) > > Hi folks, the first episode of this show aired Friday night. Nothing > Scotch Irish came up but I am curious how people found it who watched? > > You can watch it at Hulu if you missed it and have broadband: > http://www.hulu.com/who-do-you-think-you-are > > Anyone know if the British show is on line free anywhere??? > > I watched it and enjoyed. I had attempted to watch the PBS show but > found it rather slow paced. > > Linda Merle > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Howdy Linda, Just curious. Are there any accounts on line relating to the Reformed Presbyterian Church in Wilkinsburg. That's where my McKinneys ended up after selling their Braddocks Field farm to Andrew Carnegie for his steel works. Bill McKinney In Erie (which, yes, got precious little snow this year compared to last) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 5:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Hi Richard, This doesn't quite make sense to me: >My FTDNA, (67 Y Markers Tested), shows overwhelming Scotch and Irish ancestry with Irish being slightly higher than Scotch. Thats not how Y DNA results are reported (in any useful fashion). Are you refering to the familytreedna page of Recent Ancestral Origins? That's not accurate at all. It just sees where people that match you (who have origins) come from. A lot don't list origins and some are wrong. Go with your haplogroup. The haplogroup is of course fuzzy too for a couple reasons: We don't know where they originated (though the scientists have theories -- which change every two years) and who cares -- we want to know where your immediate ancestors were living. If you turn up NW Irish, you can assume they were in Ulster or nearby areas of Scotland -- ie it gives you some clues. What's the haplogroup? And who do you match to? You may find matches with a different surname because surnames are fairly recent, but they're a clue. If you tell us a few of them, maybe we can tell from the surnames where they might have come from, unless it was Glasgow....same surnames in parts of Glasgow as in northern Ireland because so many went over. The point is though that these are statistical and your unique history is unique and not based on statistics. You use the statistics to figure out where the best places are to search. You don't have enough info to search in Scotland. You need to follow George back through the censuses as far as you can. You might find him living as a child in a household with his parents. Anyway the census work will give you an approximate date of birth. Then censuses also tell you where he was born -- what state. You should also try to find an obit for him and see if you can view the actual death record, not a death certificate. This is dependent on the state he died in. What state did he die in? You also need to gather all his siblings, their dates of birth and where they were born from the censuses. These are clues, esp. ones born in Scotland. There are plenty of James Mitchells there, but with the names of children and maybe spouse, you can narrow it down. Since he was born in the USA and his father in Scotland probably his father was in the USA at the time of his birth and you can trace him backwards in the censuses. Then you look for a naturalization record. If he was in the USA in 1812, if he was not naturalized he should be listed as an alien. the book is in Ancestry. You want to search for a naturalization record for the father and then first papers. The first papers are more likely to nail down his origins. However the people who stood for him are critical people. Like in the case of a client of mine whose ancstors claimed to be Scots, the men who stood for him when he naturalized were both first generation Irish. They didn't randomly go somewhere in the USA -- they went to where other people from the family and/or village went. It's called c! hain migration. So you always look up those guys in the censuses and see what you can learn about them. They are clues. Similarly, one of the sons of the Rev. John Black, who also became a minister, witnessed the will of a Kelly ancestor of mine. Why? He died north of the Allegheny and this man's church was in Wilkinsburg. Because of some previous tie, that's why. There were Kellys associated with the Reformed Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg but so far I've not found the origins of mine -- but it is an important clue to where they were before they manifested in Indiana Twp (Allegheny Co). >I apologise to any of those who I may have offended on the list, Actually I did more offending than you today. You didn't offend anyone at all. Good luck! Linda Merle ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Or indeed how to actuall spell whisk(e)y! Ella Ella Patterson Cataloguing Department Room 222, Floor 2 The Library at Queen's The Queen's University of Belfast 10 College Park Belfast BT7 1LP Telephone: +44 28 9097 6246 Email : [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lois Gibboney Sent: 08 March 2010 16:17 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [S-I] symbol for group <snip> Ach, then one gets into the argument about which whisky label to use... ;-) We could use someone playing a fiddle, a bottle of Laird's Applejack nearby and some frontiersmen dancing a jig. Laird's is surely Scotch-Irish and made in America. This sounds representative of my ancestors!! ~Lois ******** ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks so much to all who helped to help Ruth -- it really does pay to 'hang out' together. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruth McLaughlin" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 7:32:33 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] a "profession" of a Scotch-Irish inhabitant of Sullivan Co., Tennessee The replies from all of you, you included Ann, fit together so beautifully giving a glimpse into TN with which a northern researcher wouldn't be familiar. Why I am always telling researchers to subscribe to this List!! Thanks Ann Ruth Ottawa On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Ann Heinz <[email protected]> wrote: > > The iron furnace and forge business up until around 1850 used charcoal > to melt the iron ore. A charcoal burner or collier was a man who made > charcoal from wood. Small furnaces and forges used charcoal as fuel longer > than the big furnaces which switched to coal. > Those workers were also referred to as "coalers" in business records. > After the general use of coal as fuel the word "collier" became > synonymous with coal miners. A perfectly good word so why waste it? > Ann > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ruth McLaughlin" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 11:49 AM > Subject: [S-I] a "profession" of a Scotch-Irish inhabitant of Sullivan > Co.,Tennessee > > > Having difficulty trying to figure out the "profession, occupation or > trade" for the father in an 1880 Sullivan County Census record for > James & Sarah M. Smith and their 7 children. They are part of a > Scotch-Irish family in TN under heavy scrutiny right now. The > census-taker's handwriting is pretty clear and dark, but that still > doesn't seem to help! It reads "Cole Coluer." Any ideas? One > suggestion of something to do with coal was ruled out by a local who > tells us there was no coal mining in that area of eastern Tennessee. > The closest coal mining would be a 2-hour drive under modern > conditions. > > The Y-DNA of this man's Smith family matches 37- for 37-markers > (67-marker results espected any day) with several males (and one in > particular) from a well-researched Smith family which was part of 1718 > Scotch-Irish migration from Ulster, settling first in Chester, New > Hampshire and ultimately New Boston, NH. DNA has contributed the first > hint of a southern connection, despite decades of work. > > Any thoughts you might have on the significance of this 37 for 37, > Linda or others, and ow far back, as well as ideas as to James Smith's > "profession" would be appreciated. I have a feeling I may be back with > more questions. Tennessee research is a new field for me, but I know > not so new to many of you. > > Ruth > Ottawa > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4925 (20100308) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4925 (20100308) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Thomas, it is more likely that information on the family can be found today than at any time in the past. Why? Because we have greater access to documents than ever before as well as better training in how to do this research. If you read Falley's book on Irish and Scotch Irish Ancestral Research, you'll find a whole chapter on how to research Huguenots. In the past our standards were much lower for genealogical research and documentation so much compiled genealogy lacks proper sourcing. That's pretty much the norm. Efforts have been constantly made to improve things and you'll find articles published in the leading journals are properly sourced. Good luck! Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "thomas crossett" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 7:15:32 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [S-I] 17th Century research My family left Ulster in 1716 for Massachusetts, settling finally in the Lisburn Proprietary, now Pelham. The name is Crossett. A book claims the original name was du Crozat, a Huguenot. It spells out who he married, how many children with dates only for the boys, and where his farm was. Another generation follows with similar details. The third generation came to America. That is documented. The story has always made me doubtful since there are no references given other than that the family had had research done in 1927 in Ireland. What is the opinion of the list as to whether such information could have been then or could today be found? Tom ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Cliff, this, I have been told, is why Irish people don't like to do genealogy: They fear finding out they are we (and vise versa). The Irish employed many many Scots galloglass (in Irisn means foreign soldier) in the late middle ages, including down through Cork. They were housed, according to Irish custom, in the one room houses of the unfortunate tenants of the chief, where they no doubt preyed on the poor fellow's wife and daughters. I researched a Mulvihill from Limerick who turned out to match the ones from Kerry, who, he was told, were Scots in origin. All very Catholic...but probably their ancestors was also Catholic as well. Out of the three regions of Scotland, Presbyterianism was only associated with one -- the middle. The border people and the highlanders were often Catholic -- because the guys in the middle were Presbyterian <grin>! So Scottish genes may not be anything as embarrassing as ourselves but something more respectable-- from their perspective <grin>. We're not bugs and other lower life forms whose genes seem to determine everything -- we can be different from our ancestors as culture and ethnicity are learned behaviors. We all prefer to have ancestors who 'match' our current identity but it makes no difference if we don't have them. We can still drink our preferred brand of whiskey (or continue to make our own). Now we need a new line of Hallmark cards to send to friends who have received DNA results with comforting words for those who find unpleasant surprises. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff. Johnston" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 5:32:23 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Linda, You beat me to the punch :-) Yes, it is impossible to tell via Y-DNA testing how much scotch or irish one has in oneself unless it came in a bottle ;-) By the way, FWIW, my wife's family are Casey - staunch R.C.. Don't ask how I survived as a Presbyterian at their gatherings, but we love each other :-) ...lol... They all claim to have an unbroken line of Irish R.C.s going back to Saint Paddy himself... Last month I posted some of their family information on the Co. Cork site and had FTDNA send my brother-in-law a Y-DNA test kit. I also checked with FTDNAs Casey group. Much to my surprise guess what I found!!! The Casey lines there trace their ancestry back to Scotland and Protestants. Now that was a shocking suprise and a half. Needless to say my wife's Casey family has not commented on that...yet... ;-) Cliff. Johnston "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see;" from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > Hi Richard, > > This doesn't quite make sense to me: >>My FTDNA, (67 Y Markers Tested), shows overwhelming Scotch and Irish >>ancestry with Irish being slightly higher than Scotch. > > Thats not how Y DNA results are reported (in any useful fashion). Are you > refering to the familytreedna page of Recent Ancestral Origins? That's not > accurate at all. It just sees where people that match you (who have > origins) come from. A lot don't list origins and some are wrong. > > Go with your haplogroup. The haplogroup is of course fuzzy too for a > couple reasons: We don't know where they originated (though the scientists > have theories -- which change every two years) and who cares -- we want to > know where your immediate ancestors were living. If you turn up NW Irish, > you can assume they were in Ulster or nearby areas of Scotland -- ie it > gives you some clues. > > What's the haplogroup? And who do you match to? You may find matches with > a different > surname because surnames are fairly recent, but they're a clue. If you > tell us a few of > them, maybe we can tell from the surnames where they might have come from, > unless it was > Glasgow....same surnames in parts of Glasgow as in northern Ireland > because so many > went over. > > The point is though that these are statistical and your unique history is > unique and not based on statistics. You use the statistics to figure out > where the best places are to search. > > You don't have enough info to search in Scotland. You need to follow > George back through the censuses as far as you can. You might find him > living as a child in a household with his parents. Anyway the census work > will give you an approximate date of birth. Then censuses also tell you > where he was born -- what state. You should also try to find an obit for > him and see if you can view the actual death record, not a death > certificate. This is dependent on the state he died in. What state did he > die in? > > You also need to gather all his siblings, their dates of birth and where > they were born > from the censuses. These are clues, esp. ones born in Scotland. There are > plenty of James Mitchells there, but with the names of children and maybe > spouse, you can narrow it down. Since he was born in the USA and his > father in Scotland probably his father was in the USA at the time of his > birth and you can trace him backwards in the censuses. Then you look for a > naturalization record. If he was in the USA in 1812, if he was not > naturalized he should be listed as an alien. the book is in Ancestry. You > want to search for a naturalization record for the father and then first > papers. The first papers are more likely to nail down his origins. However > the people who stood for him are critical people. Like in the case of a > client of mine whose ancstors claimed to be Scots, the men who stood for > him when he naturalized were both first generation Irish. They didn't > randomly go somewhere in the USA -- they went to where other people from > the family and/or village went. It's called c! > hain migration. So you always look up those guys in the censuses and see > what you can learn about them. They are clues. > > Similarly, one of the sons of the Rev. John Black, who also became a > minister, witnessed the > will of a Kelly ancestor of mine. Why? He died north of the Allegheny and > this man's church > was in Wilkinsburg. Because of some previous tie, that's why. There were > Kellys associated > with the Reformed Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg but so far I've not > found the origins > of mine -- but it is an important clue to where they were before they > manifested in Indiana > Twp (Allegheny Co). > >>I apologise to any of those who I may have offended on the list, > > Actually I did more offending than you today. You didn't offend anyone at > all. > > Good luck! > > Linda Merle > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message