Hi Everyone, found this on another rootsweb site and thought it may be of help as there are some Northern Ireland entries also. You can search by surname. Good Luck! Sharon in cold and wet Belfast:-(( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Reddan" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:14 AM Subject: [IRELAND] 50,000 free index entries -- Registry of Deeds Index Project Fellow researchers Due to the continuing valiant efforts of our index volunteers we now have over 50,000 index records from nearly 7000 memorials of deeds. The coverage of the index entries is here: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~registryofdeeds/by_number/indexed.htm An example of the sort of information in the index is here: http://members.pcug.org.au/~nickred/deeds/memorial_extract.cgi?my_memorial=211752&my_indexer=nickred The search page is here: http://members.pcug.org.au/~nickred/deeds/search_index.html Feel free to cross post this message as the index covers all counties. -- Regards /Nick/ Home http://members.iinet.net.au/~nickred/ <http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Enickred/> Sites managed http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~registryofdeeds/index.html <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Eregistryofdeeds/index.html> http://www.igrsoc.org/index.htm http://members.iinet.net.au/~nickred/majuratennis/ <http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Enickred/majuratennis/> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2848 - Release Date: 05/01/10 19:27:00 -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2739 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

"Taoiseach" is pronounced Teeshuck. Cheers Sharon Belfast. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan How does one pronounce "Taoiseach"? ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > Hi Karen, > > It's good you are trying to learn how your parents got from Armagh to > Canada in 1840. The way you research this is to study the methodology. You > can do this by buying or borrowing books on the topic, attending lectures > on records documenting Canadian immigration from Ulster, downloading > lectures, reading them free on line, googling. A summary is here: > http://www.theshipslist.com/Research/canadarecords.htm > > The first thing you will notice is that Canada didn't begin to keep > records with a few exceptions till 1865. You may then notice your date is > before this. So how long do you want to try to learn about an event that > may well not be documented in any record, anywhere? You can spend 20 or 30 > years doing this, or 50 or more. At the end you could be very grouchy and > none the wiser. There are strategies for locating information -- in family > histories, county histories, etc, etc, etc, etc. I often cite > www.genealogical.com/university.html as a place to go to. It has a chart > that details the possible sources to find information about migration. You > can also improve your analysis skills and learn how to analyze the data > you already have to indentify clues that you have overlooked. This sounds > immensely boring and unexciting, but I only hope that when I get back to > my family history I have overlooked some of the astonishing buried > treasures found in what clients of mine have sent. > > Still, if no one documented the name of the ship in your family, you may > have to channel them from the other side. Even this is risky. I assume, > anyway, if we called back my great aunt, who migrated at the age of 4 with > her family from Scotland in 1893 and who in her later years wrote a letter > documenting what she knew, that she'd give the same ship name as she did > in her letter. Unfortunately, she was wrong. It didn't take long to > discover that no su ch ship as she named existed in 1893 or ever lugged > people from Scotland to the USA. However there was a similar named ship. > Sure enough, I found them on a passenger list for THAT ship. Move back > another hundred years or more -- there are plenty of errors in our holy, > received family histories. Sometimes you gotta work around the family > history <grin>. Or the opinions of deceased ancestors called back from the > grave to the spiritual circle..... > > I'd check Filby and then turn to hunting up oral family history that has > been preserved in collateral lines, if not your own. > > Linda Merle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karen" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:37:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > Mary, how did you learn the ship they cdamne on? I'm trying to larn how my > great great grandparents got from Co. Armagh to Canada in 1840. Many > thanks, > Karen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Widener" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:51 PM > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > > > My Scotch Irish came to Abbeville, S. Carolina in 1767 from Belfast. > Directly to Charleston, S. Carolina, have the ship they came over on and > the > land they were given, Matthew and James SHANKS, Matthew the father, his > wife > died enroute from Belfast and James was only about 4 or 5 years old when > they arrived. James had an uncle who had previously come over, a Robert > WILSON > Mary Widener > > --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Sarah <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2845 - Release Date: 04/30/10 12:34:00 -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2739 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Hi Louise, if they entered the USA by ship, then they may be on a ship list since the USA government passed a law requiring that all entrants be documented in 1820. There are many strategies for searching these, that vary over time as various on line services index more of these. (I have to refigure out the best way to do this now e very time). This accounts for 2/3rds of those who came to the USA. For Canadian figures, check Canadian sources. One third came in through Canada, I have read. Depressing........ You use the US censuses to id when they came and if they were naturalized. If naturalized you can sometimes access naturalization paper work (three types, the first, the intent, being most likely to have information). Footnote.com has a lot of naturalization paperwork on line. As for why they came, that is the subject of many books and articles. Pick up just about any genealogy mag in the bookstore or library and at least once a year it discusses the topic. You can also find an abundance of information on line. "Emigrants and Exiles" by Kerby Miller discusses Irish emigration and "Going to America" by Terry Coleman focuses on the 'mass trans-Atlantic emigrations of the mid-19th century" as it says on the back. Of course you've heard of the Famine, so you're talking up the lead up to the Famine. What do you think it was like? By the mid 19th century of course it wasn't just about getting out of Ireland to avoid Ireland and its never ending problems but much much more about the draw or lure of life in America and an economy such as we have not really seen since, growing wildly in leaps and bounds, fueled by the industrial revolution. These people didn't come with the goal of becoming dirt farmers (or medieval 'yeoman') like the migrants of the colonial days. "Going to America" discusses various British colonies that arose in the USA -- and to one my paternal ancestors went, I learned. It talks about ships and the journey and why they came and why they left from wherever. The first half of the 19th century saw the changeover from sailing ships to steam, from ships hauling passengers as a side business to a whole new industry carting people over the Pond, the shift from largely Protestants from the industrialized parts of Ireland to a majority of Catholics from the rural west and south. It's a great era to read about! For specifics on your family you need to do genealogy, of course, using information found in the censuses, tax records, land records, and probates to establish the economic conditions of your ancestors and how that changed over the years. But it'll make a lot more sense if you read a book like "Going to America". The Canadian entries are the big problems.... No border crossings either. They just manifest in Michigan or Ohio one day, having crossed by ferry. Quarter immigrants, did someone say they were called on the cities on the Great Lakes?? My father, who was probably not paying attention during the original discussion, told me his grandparents entered through Canada -- but I found them on an American ship list. It took a while because there are HUGE numbers of immigrant ships and a lot of indexing to do. As we quickly index them, voila!!!! There they are. Used to be you spend a LOT of time in the back of a FHL cranking film through a full year of ships. Didn't find them in New York? Then you checked Baltimore, Philly, Boston, etc, etc, etc, till your right arm was very musclely and you had decided to take up a differnt hobby. Now it can be easy, though it never really is, it seems. Most recent case: a man who said in his naturalization papers he came on a certain date in 1888, left the port blank, and named a ghost ship that never existed by that name. Of course not in Ancestry, etc, etc. What is this guy hiding? Apparently a lot! No baptism or civil registration in Ireland in the parish he said he came from, no parental marriage record either. Though the parish exists and has records. Hmmmmmm I think we can forget getting Irish citizen based on this guy! Luckily his wife was easier to trace. No records of this guy anywhere in Ireland that is now on line, which is most of the place (free at www.irishgenealogy.ie and a few other places with civil registration at the pilot program of family search.)......Mr. Mystery! And his parents too. Never married, never born, never baptized. No doubt a certain portion of our colonial ancestors also hid their pasts and that is why you can't find them: They had no intentions of ever being found by anyone, ever. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louise Acheson" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:31:42 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan I have this same problem. They came in 1840. No other info about from where in Ulster. I wonder what was happening in 1840 to come here??? Your info might help me thanks Linda-from Louise -------------------------------------------------- From: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:56 AM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > Hi Karen, > > It's good you are trying to learn how your parents got from Armagh to > Canada in 1840. The way you research this is to study the methodology. You > can do this by buying or borrowing books on the topic, attending lectures > on records documenting Canadian immigration from Ulster, downloading > lectures, reading them free on line, googling. A summary is here: > http://www.theshipslist.com/Research/canadarecords.htm > > The first thing you will notice is that Canada didn't begin to keep > records with a few exceptions till 1865. You may then notice your date is > before this. So how long do you want to try to learn about an event that > may well not be documented in any record, anywhere? You can spend 20 or 30 > years doing this, or 50 or more. At the end you could be very grouchy and > none the wiser. There are strategies for locating information -- in family > histories, county histories, etc, etc, etc, etc. I often cite > www.genealogical.com/university.html as a place to go to. It has a chart > that details the possible sources to find information about migration. You > can also improve your analysis skills and learn how to analyze the data > you already have to indentify clues that you have overlooked. This sounds > immensely boring and unexciting, but I only hope that when I get back to > my family history I have overlooked some of the astonishing buried > treasures found in what clients of mine have sent. > > Still, if no one documented the name of the ship in your family, you may > have to channel them from the other side. Even this is risky. I assume, > anyway, if we called back my great aunt, who migrated at the age of 4 with > her family from Scotland in 1893 and who in her later years wrote a letter > documenting what she knew, that she'd give the same ship name as she did > in her letter. Unfortunately, she was wrong. It didn't take long to > discover that no su ch ship as she named existed in 1893 or ever lugged > people from Scotland to the USA. However there was a similar named ship. > Sure enough, I found them on a passenger list for THAT ship. Move back > another hundred years or more -- there are plenty of errors in our holy, > received family histories. Sometimes you gotta work around the family > history <grin>. Or the opinions of deceased ancestors called back from the > grave to the spiritual circle..... > > I'd check Filby and then turn to hunting up oral family history that has > been preserved in collateral lines, if not your own. > > Linda Merle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karen" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:37:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > Mary, how did you learn the ship they cdamne on? I'm trying to larn how my > great great grandparents got from Co. Armagh to Canada in 1840. Many > thanks, > Karen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Widener" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:51 PM > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > > > My Scotch Irish came to Abbeville, S. Carolina in 1767 from Belfast. > Directly to Charleston, S. Carolina, have the ship they came over on and > the > land they were given, Matthew and James SHANKS, Matthew the father, his > wife > died enroute from Belfast and James was only about 4 or 5 years old when > they arrived. James had an uncle who had previously come over, a Robert > WILSON > Mary Widener > > --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Sarah <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, it was pre-starvation, I think, but certainly small (read, tiny) farmers were not wealthy at all, and I imagine times were quite hard. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louise Acheson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan >I have this same problem. They came in 1840. No other info about from where > in Ulster. I wonder what was happening in 1840 to come here??? Your info > might help me thanks Linda-from Louise > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:56 AM > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > >> Hi Karen, >> >> It's good you are trying to learn how your parents got from Armagh to >> Canada in 1840. The way you research this is to study the methodology. >> You >> can do this by buying or borrowing books on the topic, attending lectures >> on records documenting Canadian immigration from Ulster, downloading >> lectures, reading them free on line, googling. A summary is here: >> http://www.theshipslist.com/Research/canadarecords.htm >> >> The first thing you will notice is that Canada didn't begin to keep >> records with a few exceptions till 1865. You may then notice your date is >> before this. So how long do you want to try to learn about an event that >> may well not be documented in any record, anywhere? You can spend 20 or >> 30 >> years doing this, or 50 or more. At the end you could be very grouchy and >> none the wiser. There are strategies for locating information -- in >> family >> histories, county histories, etc, etc, etc, etc. I often cite >> www.genealogical.com/university.html as a place to go to. It has a chart >> that details the possible sources to find information about migration. >> You >> can also improve your analysis skills and learn how to analyze the data >> you already have to indentify clues that you have overlooked. This sounds >> immensely boring and unexciting, but I only hope that when I get back to >> my family history I have overlooked some of the astonishing buried >> treasures found in what clients of mine have sent. >> >> Still, if no one documented the name of the ship in your family, you may >> have to channel them from the other side. Even this is risky. I assume, >> anyway, if we called back my great aunt, who migrated at the age of 4 >> with >> her family from Scotland in 1893 and who in her later years wrote a >> letter >> documenting what she knew, that she'd give the same ship name as she did >> in her letter. Unfortunately, she was wrong. It didn't take long to >> discover that no su ch ship as she named existed in 1893 or ever lugged >> people from Scotland to the USA. However there was a similar named ship. >> Sure enough, I found them on a passenger list for THAT ship. Move back >> another hundred years or more -- there are plenty of errors in our holy, >> received family histories. Sometimes you gotta work around the family >> history <grin>. Or the opinions of deceased ancestors called back from >> the >> grave to the spiritual circle..... >> >> I'd check Filby and then turn to hunting up oral family history that has >> been preserved in collateral lines, if not your own. >> >> Linda Merle >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Karen" <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:37:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan >> >> Mary, how did you learn the ship they cdamne on? I'm trying to larn how >> my >> great great grandparents got from Co. Armagh to Canada in 1840. Many >> thanks, >> Karen >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mary Widener" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:51 PM >> Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan >> >> >> >> My Scotch Irish came to Abbeville, S. Carolina in 1767 from Belfast. >> Directly to Charleston, S. Carolina, have the ship they came over on and >> the >> land they were given, Matthew and James SHANKS, Matthew the father, his >> wife >> died enroute from Belfast and James was only about 4 or 5 years old when >> they arrived. James had an uncle who had previously come over, a Robert >> WILSON >> Mary Widener >> >> --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Sarah <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

How does one pronounce "Taoiseach"? ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > Hi Karen, > > It's good you are trying to learn how your parents got from Armagh to > Canada in 1840. The way you research this is to study the methodology. You > can do this by buying or borrowing books on the topic, attending lectures > on records documenting Canadian immigration from Ulster, downloading > lectures, reading them free on line, googling. A summary is here: > http://www.theshipslist.com/Research/canadarecords.htm > > The first thing you will notice is that Canada didn't begin to keep > records with a few exceptions till 1865. You may then notice your date is > before this. So how long do you want to try to learn about an event that > may well not be documented in any record, anywhere? You can spend 20 or 30 > years doing this, or 50 or more. At the end you could be very grouchy and > none the wiser. There are strategies for locating information -- in family > histories, county histories, etc, etc, etc, etc. I often cite > www.genealogical.com/university.html as a place to go to. It has a chart > that details the possible sources to find information about migration. You > can also improve your analysis skills and learn how to analyze the data > you already have to indentify clues that you have overlooked. This sounds > immensely boring and unexciting, but I only hope that when I get back to > my family history I have overlooked some of the astonishing buried > treasures found in what clients of mine have sent. > > Still, if no one documented the name of the ship in your family, you may > have to channel them from the other side. Even this is risky. I assume, > anyway, if we called back my great aunt, who migrated at the age of 4 with > her family from Scotland in 1893 and who in her later years wrote a letter > documenting what she knew, that she'd give the same ship name as she did > in her letter. Unfortunately, she was wrong. It didn't take long to > discover that no su ch ship as she named existed in 1893 or ever lugged > people from Scotland to the USA. However there was a similar named ship. > Sure enough, I found them on a passenger list for THAT ship. Move back > another hundred years or more -- there are plenty of errors in our holy, > received family histories. Sometimes you gotta work around the family > history <grin>. Or the opinions of deceased ancestors called back from the > grave to the spiritual circle..... > > I'd check Filby and then turn to hunting up oral family history that has > been preserved in collateral lines, if not your own. > > Linda Merle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karen" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:37:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > Mary, how did you learn the ship they cdamne on? I'm trying to larn how my > great great grandparents got from Co. Armagh to Canada in 1840. Many > thanks, > Karen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Widener" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:51 PM > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > > > My Scotch Irish came to Abbeville, S. Carolina in 1767 from Belfast. > Directly to Charleston, S. Carolina, have the ship they came over on and > the > land they were given, Matthew and James SHANKS, Matthew the father, his > wife > died enroute from Belfast and James was only about 4 or 5 years old when > they arrived. James had an uncle who had previously come over, a Robert > WILSON > Mary Widener > > --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Sarah <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Karen. If your folks emigrated to Canada from Ireland, you might want to try the records at Gross Ille Point National Park. It was Canada's equivalent to Ellis Island in the US. It was the entry point of a lot of Irish immigrants to Canada, especially during the potatoe famine years. Where in Canada did they settle? A lot of the parish records of the churches in Canada are still intact (no wars, etc.). There are the Drouin Records for Quebec, there are the provincial archives in Nova Scotia, to name a few. If they were protestant, and settled in Montreal, they were likely buried in Mount Royal Cemetary in Montreal. Mount Royal Cemetary has a tremendous genealogy record search system. I've used it myself and discovered/re-affiremed at lot of deaths there. Just a few suggestions. My own "tribe/clan" came from Ulster to US first, then to Canada and my GreatGran came directly from Ireland. It's not hard To find them, you just need to know where to look. Good Luck! Margaret McNutt Canada -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karen Sent: April-30-10 3:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan How does one pronounce "Taoiseach"? ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > Hi Karen, > > It's good you are trying to learn how your parents got from Armagh to > Canada in 1840. The way you research this is to study the methodology. You > can do this by buying or borrowing books on the topic, attending lectures > on records documenting Canadian immigration from Ulster, downloading > lectures, reading them free on line, googling. A summary is here: > http://www.theshipslist.com/Research/canadarecords.htm > > The first thing you will notice is that Canada didn't begin to keep > records with a few exceptions till 1865. You may then notice your date is > before this. So how long do you want to try to learn about an event that > may well not be documented in any record, anywhere? You can spend 20 or 30 > years doing this, or 50 or more. At the end you could be very grouchy and > none the wiser. There are strategies for locating information -- in family > histories, county histories, etc, etc, etc, etc. I often cite > www.genealogical.com/university.html as a place to go to. It has a chart > that details the possible sources to find information about migration. You > can also improve your analysis skills and learn how to analyze the data > you already have to indentify clues that you have overlooked. This sounds > immensely boring and unexciting, but I only hope that when I get back to > my family history I have overlooked some of the astonishing buried > treasures found in what clients of mine have sent. > > Still, if no one documented the name of the ship in your family, you may > have to channel them from the other side. Even this is risky. I assume, > anyway, if we called back my great aunt, who migrated at the age of 4 with > her family from Scotland in 1893 and who in her later years wrote a letter > documenting what she knew, that she'd give the same ship name as she did > in her letter. Unfortunately, she was wrong. It didn't take long to > discover that no su ch ship as she named existed in 1893 or ever lugged > people from Scotland to the USA. However there was a similar named ship. > Sure enough, I found them on a passenger list for THAT ship. Move back > another hundred years or more -- there are plenty of errors in our holy, > received family histories. Sometimes you gotta work around the family > history <grin>. Or the opinions of deceased ancestors called back from the > grave to the spiritual circle..... > > I'd check Filby and then turn to hunting up oral family history that has > been preserved in collateral lines, if not your own. > > Linda Merle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karen" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:37:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > Mary, how did you learn the ship they cdamne on? I'm trying to larn how my > great great grandparents got from Co. Armagh to Canada in 1840. Many > thanks, > Karen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Widener" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:51 PM > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > > > My Scotch Irish came to Abbeville, S. Carolina in 1767 from Belfast. > Directly to Charleston, S. Carolina, have the ship they came over on and > the > land they were given, Matthew and James SHANKS, Matthew the father, his > wife > died enroute from Belfast and James was only about 4 or 5 years old when > they arrived. James had an uncle who had previously come over, a Robert > WILSON > Mary Widener > > --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Sarah <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Karen, It's good you are trying to learn how your parents got from Armagh to Canada in 1840. The way you research this is to study the methodology. You can do this by buying or borrowing books on the topic, attending lectures on records documenting Canadian immigration from Ulster, downloading lectures, reading them free on line, googling. A summary is here: http://www.theshipslist.com/Research/canadarecords.htm The first thing you will notice is that Canada didn't begin to keep records with a few exceptions till 1865. You may then notice your date is before this. So how long do you want to try to learn about an event that may well not be documented in any record, anywhere? You can spend 20 or 30 years doing this, or 50 or more. At the end you could be very grouchy and none the wiser. There are strategies for locating information -- in family histories, county histories, etc, etc, etc, etc. I often cite www.genealogical.com/university.html as a place to go to. It has a chart that details the possible sources to find information about migration. You can also improve your analysis skills and learn how to analyze the data you already have to indentify clues that you have overlooked. This sounds immensely boring and unexciting, but I only hope that when I get back to my family history I have overlooked some of the astonishing buried treasures found in what clients of mine have sent. Still, if no one documented the name of the ship in your family, you may have to channel them from the other side. Even this is risky. I assume, anyway, if we called back my great aunt, who migrated at the age of 4 with her family from Scotland in 1893 and who in her later years wrote a letter documenting what she knew, that she'd give the same ship name as she did in her letter. Unfortunately, she was wrong. It didn't take long to discover that no su ch ship as she named existed in 1893 or ever lugged people from Scotland to the USA. However there was a similar named ship. Sure enough, I found them on a passenger list for THAT ship. Move back another hundred years or more -- there are plenty of errors in our holy, received family histories. Sometimes you gotta work around the family history <grin>. Or the opinions of deceased ancestors called back from the grave to the spiritual circle..... I'd check Filby and then turn to hunting up oral family history that has been preserved in collateral lines, if not your own. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:37:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Mary, how did you learn the ship they cdamne on? I'm trying to larn how my great great grandparents got from Co. Armagh to Canada in 1840. Many thanks, Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Widener" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan My Scotch Irish came to Abbeville, S. Carolina in 1767 from Belfast. Directly to Charleston, S. Carolina, have the ship they came over on and the land they were given, Matthew and James SHANKS, Matthew the father, his wife died enroute from Belfast and James was only about 4 or 5 years old when they arrived. James had an uncle who had previously come over, a Robert WILSON Mary Widener --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Sarah <[email protected]> wrote: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have this same problem. They came in 1840. No other info about from where in Ulster. I wonder what was happening in 1840 to come here??? Your info might help me thanks Linda-from Louise -------------------------------------------------- From: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:56 AM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > Hi Karen, > > It's good you are trying to learn how your parents got from Armagh to > Canada in 1840. The way you research this is to study the methodology. You > can do this by buying or borrowing books on the topic, attending lectures > on records documenting Canadian immigration from Ulster, downloading > lectures, reading them free on line, googling. A summary is here: > http://www.theshipslist.com/Research/canadarecords.htm > > The first thing you will notice is that Canada didn't begin to keep > records with a few exceptions till 1865. You may then notice your date is > before this. So how long do you want to try to learn about an event that > may well not be documented in any record, anywhere? You can spend 20 or 30 > years doing this, or 50 or more. At the end you could be very grouchy and > none the wiser. There are strategies for locating information -- in family > histories, county histories, etc, etc, etc, etc. I often cite > www.genealogical.com/university.html as a place to go to. It has a chart > that details the possible sources to find information about migration. You > can also improve your analysis skills and learn how to analyze the data > you already have to indentify clues that you have overlooked. This sounds > immensely boring and unexciting, but I only hope that when I get back to > my family history I have overlooked some of the astonishing buried > treasures found in what clients of mine have sent. > > Still, if no one documented the name of the ship in your family, you may > have to channel them from the other side. Even this is risky. I assume, > anyway, if we called back my great aunt, who migrated at the age of 4 with > her family from Scotland in 1893 and who in her later years wrote a letter > documenting what she knew, that she'd give the same ship name as she did > in her letter. Unfortunately, she was wrong. It didn't take long to > discover that no su ch ship as she named existed in 1893 or ever lugged > people from Scotland to the USA. However there was a similar named ship. > Sure enough, I found them on a passenger list for THAT ship. Move back > another hundred years or more -- there are plenty of errors in our holy, > received family histories. Sometimes you gotta work around the family > history <grin>. Or the opinions of deceased ancestors called back from the > grave to the spiritual circle..... > > I'd check Filby and then turn to hunting up oral family history that has > been preserved in collateral lines, if not your own. > > Linda Merle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karen" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:37:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > Mary, how did you learn the ship they cdamne on? I'm trying to larn how my > great great grandparents got from Co. Armagh to Canada in 1840. Many > thanks, > Karen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Widener" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:51 PM > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > > > My Scotch Irish came to Abbeville, S. Carolina in 1767 from Belfast. > Directly to Charleston, S. Carolina, have the ship they came over on and > the > land they were given, Matthew and James SHANKS, Matthew the father, his > wife > died enroute from Belfast and James was only about 4 or 5 years old when > they arrived. James had an uncle who had previously come over, a Robert > WILSON > Mary Widener > > --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Sarah <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mary, how did you learn the ship they cdamne on? I'm trying to larn how my great great grandparents got from Co. Armagh to Canada in 1840. Many thanks, Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Widener" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan My Scotch Irish came to Abbeville, S. Carolina in 1767 from Belfast. Directly to Charleston, S. Carolina, have the ship they came over on and the land they were given, Matthew and James SHANKS, Matthew the father, his wife died enroute from Belfast and James was only about 4 or 5 years old when they arrived. James had an uncle who had previously come over, a Robert WILSON Mary Widener --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Sarah <[email protected]> wrote: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My grandfather's grandparednts from Co. Cavan left Co. Armagh to go to Canada in 1840. How did you learn what ship yours came on? Thanks, Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Widener" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan My Scotch Irish came to Abbeville, S. Carolina in 1767 from Belfast. Directly to Charleston, S. Carolina, have the ship they came over on and the land they were given, Matthew and James SHANKS, Matthew the father, his wife died enroute from Belfast and James was only about 4 or 5 years old when they arrived. James had an uncle who had previously come over, a Robert WILSON Mary Widener --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Sarah <[email protected]> wrote: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

  My Scotch Irish came to Abbeville, S. Carolina in 1767 from Belfast.  Directly to Charleston, S. Carolina, have the ship they came over on and the land they were given, Matthew and James SHANKS, Matthew the father, his wife died enroute from Belfast and James was only about 4 or 5 years old when they arrived.  James had an uncle who had previously come over, a Robert WILSON Mary Widener --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Sarah <[email protected]> wrote:  

Hi list, My Scotch-Irish also were in York Co.SC. came down from PA in 1767......established a Presbyterian church and my Flemings were 5 of the first elders in that church...........many of their relatives and extended family and friends were on the roll of the church and in the cemetary list I have. So SI were well represented in York Co. SC. Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: "W.F. Stephens" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > The Carolinas Piedmonts had large settlement of Scotch-Irish. Many came > in > through Philadelphia and made their ways down the Great Philadelphia Wagon > Road in to the Piedmont. The Council of South Carolina encouraged > emigration directly from Ulster by offering land to Protestant settlers > because of concerned that the majority of persons in the colony were > slaves > from Africa. One congregation that left Monaghan for New York in the > Cahans > Exodus relocated to Cane Creek on the South Carolina frontier. > > Woody Stephens > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 6:59 PM > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > >> Linda, >> >> I don't think the chances are good of finding much about them. I have a >> John Ellis that married a Mary Quinn, from the early 1700's. It looks >> like >> John may have been born in MD, of English or Welch parent's. His mother >> was a >> Clarke. Mary Quinn's father was Henry, but it doesn't say where he was >> born. Somehow they married in Rowen County, NC, but John died in York, >> SC. >> Did they have a large Scotch-Irish population there? >> >> Bonnie O'Neil >> >> >> In a message dated 4/28/2010 3:42:30 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Hi Bonnie, >> >> There are no Scotch Irish names, alas. Every single one of them is >> something else, like American names. That's because just as most >> Americans came >> here from somewhere else, excepting a few Indians (who had no surnames), >> Ireland was a place to go to and so many people went there. In Ulster >> natives >> had no surnames until the English imposed them on them in the early >> 1600s. >> Though there were no laws stating that you had to keep the one your >> father >> used. Still aren't! (In the rest of Ireland, under English rule >> centuries >> earlier, the Statutes of Kilkenny in the 14th century (or so...) forced >> Irish >> living u nder English control to take a surname). >> >> There are people who think you can tell someone's religion by their >> surname, but these people are often wrong. Individuals have religions >> and >> can >> change them at will. Surnames are inherited (and can be changed at will >> too). >> So when a young man of one religion marries a woman of another, some >> kind >> of compromise is made. Perhaps the children are raised in a different >> religion than the father's. If he was an Irish Catholic and the children >> were >> raied Protestant -- voila! You have a 'Scotch Irish" surname. >> >> I think you are probably trying to figure out where to find them. >> >> ELLIS is an English surname, found in Dublin (where Irish people were >> not >> allowed to live at one time) as early as 1281, says MacLysaght. It is >> not >> identified with any particular region of Ireland and is commonest in >> Leinster and Ulster. Bell in "Book of Ulster Surnames" has more >> information on the >> Ulster surname. He discusses it in the context of Elliott, as a variant. >> He notes Ellis is very common in Antrim. Says most in Ulster arrived in >> the >> post Plantation period. This name will not help you locate them in >> Ireland. >> It's important to recall that many Irish did leave from other parts of >> Ireland as well as Ulster in the colonial period. >> >> QUINN is one of the 20 most common names in Ireland, found everywhere. >> It >> is commonest in Ulster. It is the most common name in Tyrone and one of >> the >> first 10 in Armagh. Though the 11th most common in Monaghan in 1890 by >> 1970 it was the 57th suggesting much emigration. The O'Quinns of Tyrone >> were >> an important sept of Cenel Eoghain, closely related to the O'Hagans, >> thus >> O'Neills. Other septs include an O'Quinn group from the person name >> Conn, >> based in northern Antrim, Clare and Longford. Bell indicates by custom >> the >> Catholics use QUINN and Protestant QUIN. Although this must be recent, >> since >> without public schools or much educational opportunities in a language >> that >> had not set fixed spelling for surnames, who could spell a surname??? >> >> Other problems: at the start of the 20th century Quinn was used >> interchangably with Cunnea in Donegal, with MacConaghy and Queen in >> Monaghan, and >> Quenn in Armagh city, and Whin and Whinn in southeast Down. >> >> So the Quin would appear to be Irish, most likely. Neither name is a >> clue >> to where they were from. This is often the case. Once you figure out >> where >> they are from then local history may tell you the history of the >> instance >> of the surname there, where your ancestors came from. >> >> DNA probably would ID the quadrant of Ireland that they came from as >> well. >> By finding a match to a man with a known location in Ireland, you could >> assume yours came from nearby. >> >> Religion can be a great help, or rather, some religions can be. For >> example surnames associated with small groups like the Quakers and the >> Reformed >> Presbyterians are significant. There were only a few groups in Ireland, >> so >> knowing your ancestors were members of these groups limits you to those >> locations and suggests studying their history may also turn up >> information. >> Some of the surnames in the RP groups have been stable for 300 years. >> >> But don't be misled. I seem to recall someone once posting to the list >> who >> couldn't find any records for their family in a county in Ireland. >> However >> their ancestors were Protestant. Someone on the list knew that there >> were >> many people with the su rname in the county -- but they were Catholic. >> So >> someone changed religion. don't let this be a cause for you to fail to >> find >> them. >> >> Best of luck! >> >> Linda Merle >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 5:47:32 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan >> >> Linda, >> >> Can you tell me if the Ellis or Quinn family names are Scotch-Irish? If >> so, >> where in Ireland do they show up? >> >> Bonnie O'Neil >> >> >> In a message dated 3/9/2010 3:27:10 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Hi Bill, I haven't googled recently so I can't tell you what there is on >> line for the RP church in Wilkinsburg. >> >> The RP Seminary library is just up the road apiece. I don't know what >> they >> got either since when I visited >> there last I hadn't revisited the will of my ancestor (collected by >> mother >> and sister) and as a result of a lot >> of learning, realized that the witness to the will was now known to me. >> I >> guess I should go back. >> >> Linda >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "William McKinney" <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 2:26:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan >> >> Howdy Linda, >> >> Just curious. Are there any accounts on line relating to the Reformed >> Presbyterian Church in Wilkinsburg. That's where my McKinneys ended up >> after >> selling their Braddocks Field farm to Andrew Carnegie for his steel >> works. >> >> Bill McKinney >> In Erie (which, yes, got precious little snow this year compared to >> last) >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> [email protected] >> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 5:11 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan >> >> Hi Richard, >> >> This doesn't quite make sense to me: >>>My FTDNA, (67 Y Markers Tested), shows overwhelming Scotch and Irish >> ancestry with Irish being slightly higher than Scotch. >> >> Thats not how Y DNA results are reported (in any useful fashion). Are >> you >> refering to the familytreedna page of Recent Ancestral Origins? That's >> not >> accurate at all. It just sees where people that match you (who have >> origins) >> come from. A lot don't list origins and some are wrong. >> >> Go with your haplogroup. The haplogroup is of course fuzzy too for a >> couple >> reasons: We don't know where they originated (though the scientists have >> theories -- which change every two years) and who cares -- we want to >> know >> where your immediate ancestors were living. If you turn up NW Irish, you >> can >> assume they were in Ulster or nearby areas of Scotland -- ie it gives >> you >> some clues. >> >> What's the haplogroup? And who do you match to? You may find matches >> with >> a >> different >> surname because surnames are fairly recent, but they're a clue. If you >> tell >> us a few of >> them, maybe we can tell from the surnames where they might have come >> from, >> unless it was >> Glasgow....same surnames in parts of Glasgow as in northern Ireland >> because >> so many >> went over. >> >> The point is though that these are statistical and your unique history >> is >> unique and not based on statistics. You use the statistics to figure out >> where the best places are to search. >> >> You don't have enough info to search in Scotland. You need to follow >> George >> back through the censuses as far as you can. You might find him living >> as >> a >> child in a household with his parents. Anyway the census work will give >> you >> an approximate date of birth. Then censuses also tell you where he was >> born >> -- what state. You should also try to find an obit for him and see if >> you >> can view the actual death record, not a death certificate. This is >> dependent >> on the state he died in. What state did he die in? >> >> You also need to gather all his siblings, their dates of birth and where >> they were born >> from the censuses. These are clues, esp. ones born in Scotland. There >> are >> plenty of James Mitchells there, but with the names of children and >> maybe >> spouse, you can narrow it down. Since he was born in the USA and his >> father >> in Scotland probably his father was in the USA at the time of his birth >> and >> you can trace him backwards in the censuses. Then you look for a >> naturalization record. If he was in the USA in 1812, if he was not >> naturalized he should be listed as an alien. the book is in Ancestry. You >> want to search for a naturalization record for the father and then first >> papers. The first papers are more likely to nail down his origins. >> However >> the people who stood for him are critical people. Like in the case of a >> client of mine whose ancstors claimed to be Scots, the men who stood for >> him >> when he naturalized were both first generation Irish. They didn't >> randomly >> go somewhere in the USA -- they went to where other people from the >> family >> and/or village went. It's called c! >> hain migration. So you always look up those guys in the censuses and see >> what you can learn about them. They are clues. >> >> Similarly, one of the sons of the Rev. John Black, who also became a >> minister, witnessed the >> will of a Kelly ancestor of mine. Why? He died north of the Allegheny >> and >> this man's church >> was in Wilkinsburg. Because of some previous tie, that's why. There were >> Kellys associated >> with the Reformed Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg but so far I've not >> found the origins >> of mine -- but it is an important clue to where they were before they >> manifested in Indiana >> Twp (Allegheny Co). >> >>>I apologise to any of those who I may have offended on the list, >> >> Actually I did more offending than you today. You didn't offend anyone >> at >> all. >> >> Good luck! >> >> Linda Merle >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Doug, Preaching to the choir here would probably mean a choir full of copyright lawyers. I am not in such a choir. Largely the authors of the articles are the officers of the society and are long deceased and the copyrights expired. Beyond that it's their problem, not mine. I know people involved are on this list and hopefully they read the posts. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 7:44:54 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 5, Issue 128--publishing society journals Linda Probably preaching to the choir but don't forget to make sure the society has an OK from those people who wrote the articles that were published in the journals. Copyright rears it's ugly head at the wrong time every time. Douglas Burnett Satellite Beach FL

Hi Bonnie, I don't know about the Scotch Irish population in York SC, except that I suspect it was plenty. There are resources for trying to figure out where they came from and probably you need to become acquainted with them. It is not as easy as 19th century immigration. www.genealogical.com/university.html (I think!) has some courses. LDS has a free guide. These tend to depress you because nothing says "find this and you'll have your answer". Instead they focus on teaching you to do thorough research because the truth is there is no single source that will give you the information you seek. So you much search all sources. Secondly you are unlikely to find a 'smoking gun' -- a single document that says "They came from Ballyfungus". Instead you will have to, like a detective stuck with a case where the murderer was not found over the body holding the smoking gun, to locate clues and build a case based on circumstantial evidence. The first thing they tell us to do is re-examine what information you have looking for clues. My experience is there are often clues that people don't recognize are clues. There can even be a smoking gun! Ie one client had a marriage record giving the name of the county in Ireland where the ancestor can been born and the names of his parents. He didn't realize this was the goal but he'd gotten there already <grin>. You may have to trace collateral lines. This is very useful because another line may already know where they came from. You can also find the place of origin documented in the history of a county where a relative settled. My first break on my ex husband's 'case' was such: sister of his ancestor married into an early Kentucky family and I found in a history of the county the origins of their common ancestor. If I hadn't known she was related I'd have over looked this, wouldn't I? Most of us race back as fast as we can. We have to pause and collect all the data we didn't think we needed in our race back when we try to do immigration research. And there's DNA. No living males or cousins? See paragraph above on tracing siblings. There's someone here with his DNA if he came in the 1700s. Or do autosomal DNA research. They're doing that now too. You can find matches to strands of your DNA with other Quins and Ellis's. In the case of my one client, we spent years, and I do mean years, trying to find documentation in the USA. None. Zilch. A complete dead end. I identified pockets of the surname in Ireland and we tested descendents. Found a match with a small group that used similar first names. With your more common names, there will be more of them already tested. We had to work hard to find a man to test -- in Australia. Purchase Legacy and use its built in research guide to help suggest what to look for next. Good luck! Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 6:59:51 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Linda, I don't think the chances are good of finding much about them. I have a John Ellis that married a Mary Quinn, from the early 1700's. It looks like John may have been born in MD, of English or Welch parent's. His mother was a Clarke. Mary Quinn's father was Henry, but it doesn't say where he was born. Somehow they married in Rowen County, NC, but John died in York, SC. Did they have a large Scotch-Irish population there? Bonnie O'Neil In a message dated 4/28/2010 3:42:30 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Bonnie, There are no Scotch Irish names, alas. Every single one of them is something else, like American names. That's because just as most Americans came here from somewhere else, excepting a few Indians (who had no surnames), Ireland was a place to go to and so many people went there. In Ulster natives had no surnames until the English imposed them on them in the early 1600s. Though there were no laws stating that you had to keep the one your father used. Still aren't! (In the rest of Ireland, under English rule centuries earlier, the Statutes of Kilkenny in the 14th century (or so...) forced Irish living u nder English control to take a surname). There are people who think you can tell someone's religion by their surname, but these people are often wrong. Individuals have religions and can change them at will. Surnames are inherited (and can be changed at will too). So when a young man of one religion marries a woman of another, some kind of compromise is made. Perhaps the children are raised in a different religion than the father's. If he was an Irish Catholic and the children were raied Protestant -- voila! You have a 'Scotch Irish" surname. I think you are probably trying to figure out where to find them. ELLIS is an English surname, found in Dublin (where Irish people were not allowed to live at one time) as early as 1281, says MacLysaght. It is not identified with any particular region of Ireland and is commonest in Leinster and Ulster. Bell in "Book of Ulster Surnames" has more information on the Ulster surname. He discusses it in the context of Elliott, as a variant. He notes Ellis is very common in Antrim. Says most in Ulster arrived in the post Plantation period. This name will not help you locate them in Ireland. It's important to recall that many Irish did leave from other parts of Ireland as well as Ulster in the colonial period. QUINN is one of the 20 most common names in Ireland, found everywhere. It is commonest in Ulster. It is the most common name in Tyrone and one of the first 10 in Armagh. Though the 11th most common in Monaghan in 1890 by 1970 it was the 57th suggesting much emigration. The O'Quinns of Tyrone were an important sept of Cenel Eoghain, closely related to the O'Hagans, thus O'Neills. Other septs include an O'Quinn group from the person name Conn, based in northern Antrim, Clare and Longford. Bell indicates by custom the Catholics use QUINN and Protestant QUIN. Although this must be recent, since without public schools or much educational opportunities in a language that had not set fixed spelling for surnames, who could spell a surname??? Other problems: at the start of the 20th century Quinn was used interchangably with Cunnea in Donegal, with MacConaghy and Queen in Monaghan, and Quenn in Armagh city, and Whin and Whinn in southeast Down. So the Quin would appear to be Irish, most likely. Neither name is a clue to where they were from. This is often the case. Once you figure out where they are from then local history may tell you the history of the instance of the surname there, where your ancestors came from. DNA probably would ID the quadrant of Ireland that they came from as well. By finding a match to a man with a known location in Ireland, you could assume yours came from nearby. Religion can be a great help, or rather, some religions can be. For example surnames associated with small groups like the Quakers and the Reformed Presbyterians are significant. There were only a few groups in Ireland, so knowing your ancestors were members of these groups limits you to those locations and suggests studying their history may also turn up information. Some of the surnames in the RP groups have been stable for 300 years. But don't be misled. I seem to recall someone once posting to the list who couldn't find any records for their family in a county in Ireland. However their ancestors were Protestant. Someone on the list knew that there were many people with the su rname in the county -- but they were Catholic. So someone changed religion. don't let this be a cause for you to fail to find them. Best of luck! Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 5:47:32 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Linda, Can you tell me if the Ellis or Quinn family names are Scotch-Irish? If so, where in Ireland do they show up? Bonnie O'Neil In a message dated 3/9/2010 3:27:10 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Bill, I haven't googled recently so I can't tell you what there is on line for the RP church in Wilkinsburg. The RP Seminary library is just up the road apiece. I don't know what they got either since when I visited there last I hadn't revisited the will of my ancestor (collected by mother and sister) and as a result of a lot of learning, realized that the witness to the will was now known to me. I guess I should go back. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "William McKinney" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 2:26:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Howdy Linda, Just curious. Are there any accounts on line relating to the Reformed Presbyterian Church in Wilkinsburg. That's where my McKinneys ended up after selling their Braddocks Field farm to Andrew Carnegie for his steel works. Bill McKinney In Erie (which, yes, got precious little snow this year compared to last) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 5:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Hi Richard, This doesn't quite make sense to me: >My FTDNA, (67 Y Markers Tested), shows overwhelming Scotch and Irish ancestry with Irish being slightly higher than Scotch. Thats not how Y DNA results are reported (in any useful fashion). Are you refering to the familytreedna page of Recent Ancestral Origins? That's not accurate at all. It just sees where people that match you (who have origins) come from. A lot don't list origins and some are wrong. Go with your haplogroup. The haplogroup is of course fuzzy too for a couple reasons: We don't know where they originated (though the scientists have theories -- which change every two years) and who cares -- we want to know where your immediate ancestors were living. If you turn up NW Irish, you can assume they were in Ulster or nearby areas of Scotland -- ie it gives you some clues. What's the haplogroup? And who do you match to? You may find matches with a different surname because surnames are fairly recent, but they're a clue. If you tell us a few of them, maybe we can tell from the surnames where they might have come from, unless it was Glasgow....same surnames in parts of Glasgow as in northern Ireland because so many went over. The point is though that these are statistical and your unique history is unique and not based on statistics. You use the statistics to figure out where the best places are to search. You don't have enough info to search in Scotland. You need to follow George back through the censuses as far as you can. You might find him living as a child in a household with his parents. Anyway the census work will give you an approximate date of birth. Then censuses also tell you where he was born -- what state. You should also try to find an obit for him and see if you can view the actual death record, not a death certificate. This is dependent on the state he died in. What state did he die in? You also need to gather all his siblings, their dates of birth and where they were born from the censuses. These are clues, esp. ones born in Scotland. There are plenty of James Mitchells there, but with the names of children and maybe spouse, you can narrow it down. Since he was born in the USA and his father in Scotland probably his father was in the USA at the time of his birth and you can trace him backwards in the censuses. Then you look for a naturalization record. If he was in the USA in 1812, if he was not naturalized he should be listed as an alien. the book is in Ancestry. You want to search for a naturalization record for the father and then first papers. The first papers are more likely to nail down his origins. However the people who stood for him are critical people. Like in the case of a client of mine whose ancstors claimed to be Scots, the men who stood for him when he naturalized were both first generation Irish. They didn't randomly go somewhere in the USA -- they went to where other people from the family and/or village went. It's called c! hain migration. So you always look up those guys in the censuses and see what you can learn about them. They are clues. Similarly, one of the sons of the Rev. John Black, who also became a minister, witnessed the will of a Kelly ancestor of mine. Why? He died north of the Allegheny and this man's church was in Wilkinsburg. Because of some previous tie, that's why. There were Kellys associated with the Reformed Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg but so far I've not found the origins of mine -- but it is an important clue to where they were before they manifested in Indiana Twp (Allegheny Co). >I apologise to any of those who I may have offended on the list, Actually I did more offending than you today. You didn't offend anyone at all. Good luck! Linda Merle ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Bonnie, There are no Scotch Irish names, alas. Every single one of them is something else, like American names. That's because just as most Americans came here from somewhere else, excepting a few Indians (who had no surnames), Ireland was a place to go to and so many people went there. In Ulster natives had no surnames until the English imposed them on them in the early 1600s. Though there were no laws stating that you had to keep the one your father used. Still aren't! (In the rest of Ireland, under English rule centuries earlier, the Statutes of Kilkenny in the 14th century (or so...) forced Irish living u nder English control to take a surname). There are people who think you can tell someone's religion by their surname, but these people are often wrong. Individuals have religions and can change them at will. Surnames are inherited (and can be changed at will too). So when a young man of one religion marries a woman of another, some kind of compromise is made. Perhaps the children are raised in a different religion than the father's. If he was an Irish Catholic and the children were raied Protestant -- voila! You have a 'Scotch Irish" surname. I think you are probably trying to figure out where to find them. ELLIS is an English surname, found in Dublin (where Irish people were not allowed to live at one time) as early as 1281, says MacLysaght. It is not identified with any particular region of Ireland and is commonest in Leinster and Ulster. Bell in "Book of Ulster Surnames" has more information on the Ulster surname. He discusses it in the context of Elliott, as a variant. He notes Ellis is very common in Antrim. Says most in Ulster arrived in the post Plantation period. This name will not help you locate them in Ireland. It's important to recall that many Irish did leave from other parts of Ireland as well as Ulster in the colonial period. QUINN is one of the 20 most common names in Ireland, found everywhere. It is commonest in Ulster. It is the most common name in Tyrone and one of the first 10 in Armagh. Though the 11th most common in Monaghan in 1890 by 1970 it was the 57th suggesting much emigration. The O'Quinns of Tyrone were an important sept of Cenel Eoghain, closely related to the O'Hagans, thus O'Neills. Other septs include an O'Quinn group from the person name Conn, based in northern Antrim, Clare and Longford. Bell indicates by custom the Catholics use QUINN and Protestant QUIN. Although this must be recent, since without public schools or much educational opportunities in a language that had not set fixed spelling for surnames, who could spell a surname??? Other problems: at the start of the 20th century Quinn was used interchangably with Cunnea in Donegal, with MacConaghy and Queen in Monaghan, and Quenn in Armagh city, and Whin and Whinn in southeast Down. So the Quin would appear to be Irish, most likely. Neither name is a clue to where they were from. This is often the case. Once you figure out where they are from then local history may tell you the history of the instance of the surname there, where your ancestors came from. DNA probably would ID the quadrant of Ireland that they came from as well. By finding a match to a man with a known location in Ireland, you could assume yours came from nearby. Religion can be a great help, or rather, some religions can be. For example surnames associated with small groups like the Quakers and the Reformed Presbyterians are significant. There were only a few groups in Ireland, so knowing your ancestors were members of these groups limits you to those locations and suggests studying their history may also turn up information. Some of the surnames in the RP groups have been stable for 300 years. But don't be misled. I seem to recall someone once posting to the list who couldn't find any records for their family in a county in Ireland. However their ancestors were Protestant. Someone on the list knew that there were many people with the su rname in the county -- but they were Catholic. So someone changed religion. don't let this be a cause for you to fail to find them. Best of luck! Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 5:47:32 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Linda, Can you tell me if the Ellis or Quinn family names are Scotch-Irish? If so, where in Ireland do they show up? Bonnie O'Neil In a message dated 3/9/2010 3:27:10 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Bill, I haven't googled recently so I can't tell you what there is on line for the RP church in Wilkinsburg. The RP Seminary library is just up the road apiece. I don't know what they got either since when I visited there last I hadn't revisited the will of my ancestor (collected by mother and sister) and as a result of a lot of learning, realized that the witness to the will was now known to me. I guess I should go back. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "William McKinney" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 2:26:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Howdy Linda, Just curious. Are there any accounts on line relating to the Reformed Presbyterian Church in Wilkinsburg. That's where my McKinneys ended up after selling their Braddocks Field farm to Andrew Carnegie for his steel works. Bill McKinney In Erie (which, yes, got precious little snow this year compared to last) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 5:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Hi Richard, This doesn't quite make sense to me: >My FTDNA, (67 Y Markers Tested), shows overwhelming Scotch and Irish ancestry with Irish being slightly higher than Scotch. Thats not how Y DNA results are reported (in any useful fashion). Are you refering to the familytreedna page of Recent Ancestral Origins? That's not accurate at all. It just sees where people that match you (who have origins) come from. A lot don't list origins and some are wrong. Go with your haplogroup. The haplogroup is of course fuzzy too for a couple reasons: We don't know where they originated (though the scientists have theories -- which change every two years) and who cares -- we want to know where your immediate ancestors were living. If you turn up NW Irish, you can assume they were in Ulster or nearby areas of Scotland -- ie it gives you some clues. What's the haplogroup? And who do you match to? You may find matches with a different surname because surnames are fairly recent, but they're a clue. If you tell us a few of them, maybe we can tell from the surnames where they might have come from, unless it was Glasgow....same surnames in parts of Glasgow as in northern Ireland because so many went over. The point is though that these are statistical and your unique history is unique and not based on statistics. You use the statistics to figure out where the best places are to search. You don't have enough info to search in Scotland. You need to follow George back through the censuses as far as you can. You might find him living as a child in a household with his parents. Anyway the census work will give you an approximate date of birth. Then censuses also tell you where he was born -- what state. You should also try to find an obit for him and see if you can view the actual death record, not a death certificate. This is dependent on the state he died in. What state did he die in? You also need to gather all his siblings, their dates of birth and where they were born from the censuses. These are clues, esp. ones born in Scotland. There are plenty of James Mitchells there, but with the names of children and maybe spouse, you can narrow it down. Since he was born in the USA and his father in Scotland probably his father was in the USA at the time of his birth and you can trace him backwards in the censuses. Then you look for a naturalization record. If he was in the USA in 1812, if he was not naturalized he should be listed as an alien. the book is in Ancestry. You want to search for a naturalization record for the father and then first papers. The first papers are more likely to nail down his origins. However the people who stood for him are critical people. Like in the case of a client of mine whose ancstors claimed to be Scots, the men who stood for him when he naturalized were both first generation Irish. They didn't randomly go somewhere in the USA -- they went to where other people from the family and/or village went. It's called c! hain migration. So you always look up those guys in the censuses and see what you can learn about them. They are clues. Similarly, one of the sons of the Rev. John Black, who also became a minister, witnessed the will of a Kelly ancestor of mine. Why? He died north of the Allegheny and this man's church was in Wilkinsburg. Because of some previous tie, that's why. There were Kellys associated with the Reformed Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg but so far I've not found the origins of mine -- but it is an important clue to where they were before they manifested in Indiana Twp (Allegheny Co). >I apologise to any of those who I may have offended on the list, Actually I did more offending than you today. You didn't offend anyone at all. Good luck! Linda Merle ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Linda Probably preaching to the choir but don't forget to make sure the society has an OK from those people who wrote the articles that were published in the journals. Copyright rears it's ugly head at the wrong time every time. Douglas Burnett Satellite Beach FL My question is has anyone been involved in a society that has done this? Looking for suggestions regarding software to use, etc. If anyone has can you contact me off line??? I guess this is on topic since the society is clearly Scotch Irish but it is of limited interest. -----Original Message************

The Carolinas Piedmonts had large settlement of Scotch-Irish. Many came in through Philadelphia and made their ways down the Great Philadelphia Wagon Road in to the Piedmont. The Council of South Carolina encouraged emigration directly from Ulster by offering land to Protestant settlers because of concerned that the majority of persons in the colony were slaves from Africa. One congregation that left Monaghan for New York in the Cahans Exodus relocated to Cane Creek on the South Carolina frontier. Woody Stephens -------------------------------------------------- From: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 6:59 PM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > Linda, > > I don't think the chances are good of finding much about them. I have a > John Ellis that married a Mary Quinn, from the early 1700's. It looks like > John may have been born in MD, of English or Welch parent's. His mother > was a > Clarke. Mary Quinn's father was Henry, but it doesn't say where he was > born. Somehow they married in Rowen County, NC, but John died in York, > SC. > Did they have a large Scotch-Irish population there? > > Bonnie O'Neil > > > In a message dated 4/28/2010 3:42:30 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Hi Bonnie, > > There are no Scotch Irish names, alas. Every single one of them is > something else, like American names. That's because just as most > Americans came > here from somewhere else, excepting a few Indians (who had no surnames), > Ireland was a place to go to and so many people went there. In Ulster > natives > had no surnames until the English imposed them on them in the early > 1600s. > Though there were no laws stating that you had to keep the one your > father > used. Still aren't! (In the rest of Ireland, under English rule centuries > earlier, the Statutes of Kilkenny in the 14th century (or so...) forced > Irish > living u nder English control to take a surname). > > There are people who think you can tell someone's religion by their > surname, but these people are often wrong. Individuals have religions and > can > change them at will. Surnames are inherited (and can be changed at will > too). > So when a young man of one religion marries a woman of another, some kind > of compromise is made. Perhaps the children are raised in a different > religion than the father's. If he was an Irish Catholic and the children > were > raied Protestant -- voila! You have a 'Scotch Irish" surname. > > I think you are probably trying to figure out where to find them. > > ELLIS is an English surname, found in Dublin (where Irish people were not > allowed to live at one time) as early as 1281, says MacLysaght. It is not > identified with any particular region of Ireland and is commonest in > Leinster and Ulster. Bell in "Book of Ulster Surnames" has more > information on the > Ulster surname. He discusses it in the context of Elliott, as a variant. > He notes Ellis is very common in Antrim. Says most in Ulster arrived in > the > post Plantation period. This name will not help you locate them in > Ireland. > It's important to recall that many Irish did leave from other parts of > Ireland as well as Ulster in the colonial period. > > QUINN is one of the 20 most common names in Ireland, found everywhere. It > is commonest in Ulster. It is the most common name in Tyrone and one of > the > first 10 in Armagh. Though the 11th most common in Monaghan in 1890 by > 1970 it was the 57th suggesting much emigration. The O'Quinns of Tyrone > were > an important sept of Cenel Eoghain, closely related to the O'Hagans, thus > O'Neills. Other septs include an O'Quinn group from the person name Conn, > based in northern Antrim, Clare and Longford. Bell indicates by custom > the > Catholics use QUINN and Protestant QUIN. Although this must be recent, > since > without public schools or much educational opportunities in a language > that > had not set fixed spelling for surnames, who could spell a surname??? > > Other problems: at the start of the 20th century Quinn was used > interchangably with Cunnea in Donegal, with MacConaghy and Queen in > Monaghan, and > Quenn in Armagh city, and Whin and Whinn in southeast Down. > > So the Quin would appear to be Irish, most likely. Neither name is a clue > to where they were from. This is often the case. Once you figure out > where > they are from then local history may tell you the history of the instance > of the surname there, where your ancestors came from. > > DNA probably would ID the quadrant of Ireland that they came from as > well. > By finding a match to a man with a known location in Ireland, you could > assume yours came from nearby. > > Religion can be a great help, or rather, some religions can be. For > example surnames associated with small groups like the Quakers and the > Reformed > Presbyterians are significant. There were only a few groups in Ireland, > so > knowing your ancestors were members of these groups limits you to those > locations and suggests studying their history may also turn up > information. > Some of the surnames in the RP groups have been stable for 300 years. > > But don't be misled. I seem to recall someone once posting to the list > who > couldn't find any records for their family in a county in Ireland. > However > their ancestors were Protestant. Someone on the list knew that there were > many people with the su rname in the county -- but they were Catholic. So > someone changed religion. don't let this be a cause for you to fail to > find > them. > > Best of luck! > > Linda Merle > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 5:47:32 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > Linda, > > Can you tell me if the Ellis or Quinn family names are Scotch-Irish? If > so, > where in Ireland do they show up? > > Bonnie O'Neil > > > In a message dated 3/9/2010 3:27:10 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Hi Bill, I haven't googled recently so I can't tell you what there is on > line for the RP church in Wilkinsburg. > > The RP Seminary library is just up the road apiece. I don't know what > they > got either since when I visited > there last I hadn't revisited the will of my ancestor (collected by > mother > and sister) and as a result of a lot > of learning, realized that the witness to the will was now known to me. I > guess I should go back. > > Linda > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William McKinney" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 2:26:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > Howdy Linda, > > Just curious. Are there any accounts on line relating to the Reformed > Presbyterian Church in Wilkinsburg. That's where my McKinneys ended up > after > selling their Braddocks Field farm to Andrew Carnegie for his steel > works. > > Bill McKinney > In Erie (which, yes, got precious little snow this year compared to last) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 5:11 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan > > Hi Richard, > > This doesn't quite make sense to me: >>My FTDNA, (67 Y Markers Tested), shows overwhelming Scotch and Irish > ancestry with Irish being slightly higher than Scotch. > > Thats not how Y DNA results are reported (in any useful fashion). Are you > refering to the familytreedna page of Recent Ancestral Origins? That's > not > accurate at all. It just sees where people that match you (who have > origins) > come from. A lot don't list origins and some are wrong. > > Go with your haplogroup. The haplogroup is of course fuzzy too for a > couple > reasons: We don't know where they originated (though the scientists have > theories -- which change every two years) and who cares -- we want to > know > where your immediate ancestors were living. If you turn up NW Irish, you > can > assume they were in Ulster or nearby areas of Scotland -- ie it gives you > some clues. > > What's the haplogroup? And who do you match to? You may find matches with > a > different > surname because surnames are fairly recent, but they're a clue. If you > tell > us a few of > them, maybe we can tell from the surnames where they might have come > from, > unless it was > Glasgow....same surnames in parts of Glasgow as in northern Ireland > because > so many > went over. > > The point is though that these are statistical and your unique history is > unique and not based on statistics. You use the statistics to figure out > where the best places are to search. > > You don't have enough info to search in Scotland. You need to follow > George > back through the censuses as far as you can. You might find him living as > a > child in a household with his parents. Anyway the census work will give > you > an approximate date of birth. Then censuses also tell you where he was > born > -- what state. You should also try to find an obit for him and see if you > can view the actual death record, not a death certificate. This is > dependent > on the state he died in. What state did he die in? > > You also need to gather all his siblings, their dates of birth and where > they were born > from the censuses. These are clues, esp. ones born in Scotland. There are > plenty of James Mitchells there, but with the names of children and maybe > spouse, you can narrow it down. Since he was born in the USA and his > father > in Scotland probably his father was in the USA at the time of his birth > and > you can trace him backwards in the censuses. Then you look for a > naturalization record. If he was in the USA in 1812, if he was not > naturalized he should be listed as an alien. the book is in Ancestry. You > want to search for a naturalization record for the father and then first > papers. The first papers are more likely to nail down his origins. However > the people who stood for him are critical people. Like in the case of a > client of mine whose ancstors claimed to be Scots, the men who stood for > him > when he naturalized were both first generation Irish. They didn't > randomly > go somewhere in the USA -- they went to where other people from the > family > and/or village went. It's called c! > hain migration. So you always look up those guys in the censuses and see > what you can learn about them. They are clues. > > Similarly, one of the sons of the Rev. John Black, who also became a > minister, witnessed the > will of a Kelly ancestor of mine. Why? He died north of the Allegheny and > this man's church > was in Wilkinsburg. Because of some previous tie, that's why. There were > Kellys associated > with the Reformed Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg but so far I've not > found the origins > of mine -- but it is an important clue to where they were before they > manifested in Indiana > Twp (Allegheny Co). > >>I apologise to any of those who I may have offended on the list, > > Actually I did more offending than you today. You didn't offend anyone at > all. > > Good luck! > > Linda Merle > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Linda, I don't think the chances are good of finding much about them. I have a John Ellis that married a Mary Quinn, from the early 1700's. It looks like John may have been born in MD, of English or Welch parent's. His mother was a Clarke. Mary Quinn's father was Henry, but it doesn't say where he was born. Somehow they married in Rowen County, NC, but John died in York, SC. Did they have a large Scotch-Irish population there? Bonnie O'Neil In a message dated 4/28/2010 3:42:30 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Bonnie, There are no Scotch Irish names, alas. Every single one of them is something else, like American names. That's because just as most Americans came here from somewhere else, excepting a few Indians (who had no surnames), Ireland was a place to go to and so many people went there. In Ulster natives had no surnames until the English imposed them on them in the early 1600s. Though there were no laws stating that you had to keep the one your father used. Still aren't! (In the rest of Ireland, under English rule centuries earlier, the Statutes of Kilkenny in the 14th century (or so...) forced Irish living u nder English control to take a surname). There are people who think you can tell someone's religion by their surname, but these people are often wrong. Individuals have religions and can change them at will. Surnames are inherited (and can be changed at will too). So when a young man of one religion marries a woman of another, some kind of compromise is made. Perhaps the children are raised in a different religion than the father's. If he was an Irish Catholic and the children were raied Protestant -- voila! You have a 'Scotch Irish" surname. I think you are probably trying to figure out where to find them. ELLIS is an English surname, found in Dublin (where Irish people were not allowed to live at one time) as early as 1281, says MacLysaght. It is not identified with any particular region of Ireland and is commonest in Leinster and Ulster. Bell in "Book of Ulster Surnames" has more information on the Ulster surname. He discusses it in the context of Elliott, as a variant. He notes Ellis is very common in Antrim. Says most in Ulster arrived in the post Plantation period. This name will not help you locate them in Ireland. It's important to recall that many Irish did leave from other parts of Ireland as well as Ulster in the colonial period. QUINN is one of the 20 most common names in Ireland, found everywhere. It is commonest in Ulster. It is the most common name in Tyrone and one of the first 10 in Armagh. Though the 11th most common in Monaghan in 1890 by 1970 it was the 57th suggesting much emigration. The O'Quinns of Tyrone were an important sept of Cenel Eoghain, closely related to the O'Hagans, thus O'Neills. Other septs include an O'Quinn group from the person name Conn, based in northern Antrim, Clare and Longford. Bell indicates by custom the Catholics use QUINN and Protestant QUIN. Although this must be recent, since without public schools or much educational opportunities in a language that had not set fixed spelling for surnames, who could spell a surname??? Other problems: at the start of the 20th century Quinn was used interchangably with Cunnea in Donegal, with MacConaghy and Queen in Monaghan, and Quenn in Armagh city, and Whin and Whinn in southeast Down. So the Quin would appear to be Irish, most likely. Neither name is a clue to where they were from. This is often the case. Once you figure out where they are from then local history may tell you the history of the instance of the surname there, where your ancestors came from. DNA probably would ID the quadrant of Ireland that they came from as well. By finding a match to a man with a known location in Ireland, you could assume yours came from nearby. Religion can be a great help, or rather, some religions can be. For example surnames associated with small groups like the Quakers and the Reformed Presbyterians are significant. There were only a few groups in Ireland, so knowing your ancestors were members of these groups limits you to those locations and suggests studying their history may also turn up information. Some of the surnames in the RP groups have been stable for 300 years. But don't be misled. I seem to recall someone once posting to the list who couldn't find any records for their family in a county in Ireland. However their ancestors were Protestant. Someone on the list knew that there were many people with the su rname in the county -- but they were Catholic. So someone changed religion. don't let this be a cause for you to fail to find them. Best of luck! Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 5:47:32 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Linda, Can you tell me if the Ellis or Quinn family names are Scotch-Irish? If so, where in Ireland do they show up? Bonnie O'Neil In a message dated 3/9/2010 3:27:10 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Bill, I haven't googled recently so I can't tell you what there is on line for the RP church in Wilkinsburg. The RP Seminary library is just up the road apiece. I don't know what they got either since when I visited there last I hadn't revisited the will of my ancestor (collected by mother and sister) and as a result of a lot of learning, realized that the witness to the will was now known to me. I guess I should go back. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "William McKinney" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 2:26:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Howdy Linda, Just curious. Are there any accounts on line relating to the Reformed Presbyterian Church in Wilkinsburg. That's where my McKinneys ended up after selling their Braddocks Field farm to Andrew Carnegie for his steel works. Bill McKinney In Erie (which, yes, got precious little snow this year compared to last) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 5:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Hi Richard, This doesn't quite make sense to me: >My FTDNA, (67 Y Markers Tested), shows overwhelming Scotch and Irish ancestry with Irish being slightly higher than Scotch. Thats not how Y DNA results are reported (in any useful fashion). Are you refering to the familytreedna page of Recent Ancestral Origins? That's not accurate at all. It just sees where people that match you (who have origins) come from. A lot don't list origins and some are wrong. Go with your haplogroup. The haplogroup is of course fuzzy too for a couple reasons: We don't know where they originated (though the scientists have theories -- which change every two years) and who cares -- we want to know where your immediate ancestors were living. If you turn up NW Irish, you can assume they were in Ulster or nearby areas of Scotland -- ie it gives you some clues. What's the haplogroup? And who do you match to? You may find matches with a different surname because surnames are fairly recent, but they're a clue. If you tell us a few of them, maybe we can tell from the surnames where they might have come from, unless it was Glasgow....same surnames in parts of Glasgow as in northern Ireland because so many went over. The point is though that these are statistical and your unique history is unique and not based on statistics. You use the statistics to figure out where the best places are to search. You don't have enough info to search in Scotland. You need to follow George back through the censuses as far as you can. You might find him living as a child in a household with his parents. Anyway the census work will give you an approximate date of birth. Then censuses also tell you where he was born -- what state. You should also try to find an obit for him and see if you can view the actual death record, not a death certificate. This is dependent on the state he died in. What state did he die in? You also need to gather all his siblings, their dates of birth and where they were born from the censuses. These are clues, esp. ones born in Scotland. There are plenty of James Mitchells there, but with the names of children and maybe spouse, you can narrow it down. Since he was born in the USA and his father in Scotland probably his father was in the USA at the time of his birth and you can trace him backwards in the censuses. Then you look for a naturalization record. If he was in the USA in 1812, if he was not naturalized he should be listed as an alien. the book is in Ancestry. You want to search for a naturalization record for the father and then first papers. The first papers are more likely to nail down his origins. However the people who stood for him are critical people. Like in the case of a client of mine whose ancstors claimed to be Scots, the men who stood for him when he naturalized were both first generation Irish. They didn't randomly go somewhere in the USA -- they went to where other people from the family and/or village went. It's called c! hain migration. So you always look up those guys in the censuses and see what you can learn about them. They are clues. Similarly, one of the sons of the Rev. John Black, who also became a minister, witnessed the will of a Kelly ancestor of mine. Why? He died north of the Allegheny and this man's church was in Wilkinsburg. Because of some previous tie, that's why. There were Kellys associated with the Reformed Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg but so far I've not found the origins of mine -- but it is an important clue to where they were before they manifested in Indiana Twp (Allegheny Co). >I apologise to any of those who I may have offended on the list, Actually I did more offending than you today. You didn't offend anyone at all. Good luck! Linda Merle ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Linda, Can you tell me if the Ellis or Quinn family names are Scotch-Irish? If so, where in Ireland do they show up? Bonnie O'Neil In a message dated 3/9/2010 3:27:10 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Bill, I haven't googled recently so I can't tell you what there is on line for the RP church in Wilkinsburg. The RP Seminary library is just up the road apiece. I don't know what they got either since when I visited there last I hadn't revisited the will of my ancestor (collected by mother and sister) and as a result of a lot of learning, realized that the witness to the will was now known to me. I guess I should go back. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "William McKinney" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 2:26:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Howdy Linda, Just curious. Are there any accounts on line relating to the Reformed Presbyterian Church in Wilkinsburg. That's where my McKinneys ended up after selling their Braddocks Field farm to Andrew Carnegie for his steel works. Bill McKinney In Erie (which, yes, got precious little snow this year compared to last) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 5:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan Hi Richard, This doesn't quite make sense to me: >My FTDNA, (67 Y Markers Tested), shows overwhelming Scotch and Irish ancestry with Irish being slightly higher than Scotch. Thats not how Y DNA results are reported (in any useful fashion). Are you refering to the familytreedna page of Recent Ancestral Origins? That's not accurate at all. It just sees where people that match you (who have origins) come from. A lot don't list origins and some are wrong. Go with your haplogroup. The haplogroup is of course fuzzy too for a couple reasons: We don't know where they originated (though the scientists have theories -- which change every two years) and who cares -- we want to know where your immediate ancestors were living. If you turn up NW Irish, you can assume they were in Ulster or nearby areas of Scotland -- ie it gives you some clues. What's the haplogroup? And who do you match to? You may find matches with a different surname because surnames are fairly recent, but they're a clue. If you tell us a few of them, maybe we can tell from the surnames where they might have come from, unless it was Glasgow....same surnames in parts of Glasgow as in northern Ireland because so many went over. The point is though that these are statistical and your unique history is unique and not based on statistics. You use the statistics to figure out where the best places are to search. You don't have enough info to search in Scotland. You need to follow George back through the censuses as far as you can. You might find him living as a child in a household with his parents. Anyway the census work will give you an approximate date of birth. Then censuses also tell you where he was born -- what state. You should also try to find an obit for him and see if you can view the actual death record, not a death certificate. This is dependent on the state he died in. What state did he die in? You also need to gather all his siblings, their dates of birth and where they were born from the censuses. These are clues, esp. ones born in Scotland. There are plenty of James Mitchells there, but with the names of children and maybe spouse, you can narrow it down. Since he was born in the USA and his father in Scotland probably his father was in the USA at the time of his birth and you can trace him backwards in the censuses. Then you look for a naturalization record. If he was in the USA in 1812, if he was not naturalized he should be listed as an alien. the book is in Ancestry. You want to search for a naturalization record for the father and then first papers. The first papers are more likely to nail down his origins. However the people who stood for him are critical people. Like in the case of a client of mine whose ancstors claimed to be Scots, the men who stood for him when he naturalized were both first generation Irish. They didn't randomly go somewhere in the USA -- they went to where other people from the family and/or village went. It's called c! hain migration. So you always look up those guys in the censuses and see what you can learn about them. They are clues. Similarly, one of the sons of the Rev. John Black, who also became a minister, witnessed the will of a Kelly ancestor of mine. Why? He died north of the Allegheny and this man's church was in Wilkinsburg. Because of some previous tie, that's why. There were Kellys associated with the Reformed Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg but so far I've not found the origins of mine -- but it is an important clue to where they were before they manifested in Indiana Twp (Allegheny Co). >I apologise to any of those who I may have offended on the list, Actually I did more offending than you today. You didn't offend anyone at all. Good luck! Linda Merle ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Give my eyeteeth to be there; only a big pond in between. Have a grand day. I'll make it one day that's certain. Les