Do you know the Concession and Lot numbers for this land? If so, you could review the history of it through the records at the appropriate township office but you would have to go there unless you got lucky and they have been microfilmed. I was not that lucky when I searched for some of my ancestor's land. Usually only the first transfer is found in the centralized records. After that, land transfer is a local issue. Lots were usually 200 acres and the settlers were granted 100 acres or 1/2 of a Lot so it looks like you are dealing with the original parcel. Sometimes the assessment records for these local offices have family information like number of male and female children, etc. Most that I have seen are not indexed and are organized by Concession and Lot number. You might get lucky and be able to find out online who was on the land in 1851. Have you tried looking at whether Schedules 1 and 2 of the 1851 census still exist for the sub-district where the land is? Schedule 1 was the nominal census and Schedule 2 the agricultural census. For many sub-districts, Schedule 1 has been lost but Schedule 2 survives. It gives the name of the farmer and the location of his farm by Concession and Lot number. You can browse what still exists at the Archives Canada s census site. http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/census/index-e.html John Carey -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Judy Anderson Sent: May 29, 2010 10:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land Bruce County and the Halton area. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Remclaughlin" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 6:00:17 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land Where in Ontario, Judy? There are wonderful land records in Ontario. I live in Ontario and might hazard a guess if I knew where. We know when -- 1840, but where along with when is key. Ruth Sent from my iPod On 2010-05-29, at 7:31 PM, Judy Anderson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > This is complicated....so I just have to get little sections of > information to get to the big picture. I am trying to determine how > possible would it have been for a person who lived in Ireland in > 1840 to buy 100 acres in Canada. This would have been in Ontario, > Canada. > > > > Judy > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Young" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 11:52:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land > > What is the basis for your theory that the land was purchased when > your POI [person of interest] was in Ireland? What township and what > district was the land in? > > Where in Ireland was your POI? > > I seriously doubt a "normal" person in Ireland could purchase land in > Canada in abstentia. However, the land barons [literally] in Ireland > probably could have purchased or been given large tracts that they > would then sell off. > > Judy wrote: > > At 12:26 PM -0600 5/29/10, [email protected] wrote: >> The land was purchased in Ontario in 1839 from a private person? It >> consisted of 100 acres.? This individual died in Canada in 1858.? >> The land was willed to his brother.? In his will he lists no wife or >> children and is buried near his brother ALONE.? Almost everyone has >> this guy married with about 7 kids which I believe to be wrong.? So >> I am trying to prove all of this. > > > > > > -- > David N Young > San Diego, CA > researching Young, Norwood, Barrons, Smith, Pocock, Peacock, Moon > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jim, Thank you very much, I will look into the mailing lists. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim White" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 5:46:53 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land Judy: Normally, the application was made in Ontario, from specially appointed Land Grand Sites, appointed by the government.  Depending on where the person wanted to locate, would indicate where the application site would be. There were many Canada Land Agents in Ireland, handing out multiple page instructions, on how to apply for a land grand in Ontario.  I am not aware of any that could be made while in Ireland.  Many/most of these can be obtained on the internet.  Many can also be obtained on the "The Ships List" Web Site. You may also want to subscribe to the Can/Ont/York , or Can/Ont/Upper Canada Rootsweb Mailing Lists, which would be able to supply most of this info. Regards Jim White Naples, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Young" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 1:52 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land > What is the basis for your theory that the land was purchased when > your POI [person of interest] was in Ireland?  What township and what > district was the land in? > > Where in Ireland was your POI? > > I seriously doubt a "normal" person in Ireland could purchase land in > Canada in abstentia.  However, the land barons [literally] in Ireland > probably could have purchased or been given large tracts that they > would then sell off. > > Judy wrote: > > At 12:26 PM -0600 5/29/10, [email protected] wrote: >>The land was purchased in Ontario in 1839 from a private person? It >>consisted of 100 acres.? This individual died in Canada in 1858.? >>The land was willed to his brother.? In his will he lists no wife or >>children and is buried near his brother ALONE.? Almost everyone has >>this guy married with about 7 kids which I believe to be wrong.? So >>I am trying to prove all of this. > > > > > > -- > David N Young > San Diego, CA > researching Young, Norwood, Barrons, Smith, Pocock, Peacock, Moon > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 5117 (20100515) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5117 (20100515) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bruce County and the Halton area. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Remclaughlin" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 6:00:17 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land Where in Ontario, Judy? There are wonderful land records in Ontario. I   live in Ontario and might hazard a guess if I knew where. We know when   -- 1840, but where along with when is key. Ruth Sent from my iPod On 2010-05-29, at 7:31 PM, Judy Anderson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > This is complicated....so I just have to get little sections of   > information to get to the big picture.  I am trying to determine how   > possible would it have been for a person who lived in Ireland in   > 1840 to buy 100 acres in Canada.  This would have been in Ontario,   > Canada. > > > > Judy > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Young" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 11:52:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land > > What is the basis for your theory that the land was purchased when > your POI [person of interest] was in Ireland?  What township and what > district was the land in? > > Where in Ireland was your POI? > > I seriously doubt a "normal" person in Ireland could purchase land in > Canada in abstentia.  However, the land barons [literally] in Ireland > probably could have purchased or been given large tracts that they > would then sell off. > > Judy wrote: > > At 12:26 PM -0600 5/29/10, [email protected] wrote: >> The land was purchased in Ontario in 1839 from a private person? It >> consisted of 100 acres.? This individual died in Canada in 1858.? >> The land was willed to his brother.? In his will he lists no wife or >> children and is buried near his brother ALONE.? Almost everyone has >> this guy married with about 7 kids which I believe to be wrong.? So >> I am trying to prove all of this. > > > > > > -- > David N Young > San Diego, CA > researching Young, Norwood, Barrons, Smith, Pocock, Peacock, Moon > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >  with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and   > the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >  with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and   > the body of the message   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi David, Perhaps he sent the money over and it was purchased for him by his uncle, who had already settled there. Not everyone in Ireland was a tenant farmer. There was a middle class of lawyers, doctors, merchants, ministers, etc. and they did get disposable tax. One way would be to inherit cash or a small property, which you could sell and send on to Canada to make sure you got a plot of land near your dear uncle or the other fellow in the village who left two years ago or your wife's brother. Not having any idea of the amount of land purchased or the rate, can't tell if the guy was given a cash grant after the old master died for his lifetime of devoted service or was the second son of a prosperous merchant in Belfast. Again, perhaps his wife and children died. This happened a lot -- due to an epidemic the whole family is lost and you start over again. Only he didn't. Or he wasn't too practical and was duped by his brother who wanted to enlarge his farm all along and while his brother in Ireland was sure he'd recover and come over to Canada, the Canadian brother was pretty sure, due to letters from the neighbors, he'd be standing in front of St. Peter before long -- and so he was. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Young" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 2:52:22 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land What is the basis for your theory that the land was purchased when your POI [person of interest] was in Ireland? What township and what district was the land in? Where in Ireland was your POI? I seriously doubt a "normal" person in Ireland could purchase land in Canada in abstentia. However, the land barons [literally] in Ireland probably could have purchased or been given large tracts that they would then sell off. Judy wrote: At 12:26 PM -0600 5/29/10, [email protected] wrote: >The land was purchased in Ontario in 1839 from a private person? It >consisted of 100 acres.? This individual died in Canada in 1858.? >The land was willed to his brother.? In his will he lists no wife or >children and is buried near his brother ALONE.? Almost everyone has >this guy married with about 7 kids which I believe to be wrong.? So >I am trying to prove all of this. -- David N Young San Diego, CA researching Young, Norwood, Barrons, Smith, Pocock, Peacock, Moon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Judy, what is key is to view the earliest recorded deed or grant as well as to know the history of the immediate area. As I already said, unless the person was claiming land as a settler under some specific legislature, he just paid some money. There were plenty of lawyers and banksand merchants through which to work to do this although one might use a private person -- a relative, friend, neighbor. Obviously a person able to put up cash for land in Canada probably was better off than the average person. It signals that it might be useful to search the deeds for an inheritance (sometimes recorded as a memorial) or a sale of land in Ulster. Of course it was legal for a resident of one British country to own land in another, if that is your concern. That had been going on since the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Another way people in Ireland came by land overseas is inheritance. LOTS of people inherited land that way. They were not forced to immigrate. Supposedly if they abandoned the property and didn't pay taxes before too long, just like now, your property is resold to someone who will pay taxes on it. I've seen lots and lots of placenames in Ireland in wills and deeds in the USA -- and the same is true for Ontario. This is a general statement -- we know nothing about the specific county and township and whether it was a designated military area, an Indian reservation, etc, etc... In some US locales mortages survive and are microfilmed -- some of these are private mortgates (Person A agrees to purchase the land for Person B, who agrees to pay person A. If Person B gets behind on his payments, Person A sues him. I 've seen cases where Person B was taken to court and over and over for non-payment). These days banks loan the money. Back then, more likely some rich uncle would do it or some other connection. This is different from the method of settling and developing the land, raising a few years crops and getting cash which was then applied to the warrant, survey, and purchase grant, or whatever remained to be done. No matter the locale, generally the legislatures had to eventually secure the rights of the small voter and settler over the rich land speculator who might have purchased thousands of acres with no intention of settling on them -- while he lived in luxury back east somewheres. In the USA landowners who supported the British lost their land after the Revolution, but of course that's not a problem in Canada. Some were awarded land in Canada for their service in the Revolution -- another way Canadians got land from the government without paying for it. Usually the history of the township will tell you if United Empire Loyalists or soldiers settled there. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Anderson" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 7:31:33 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land This is complicated....so I just have to get little sections of information to get to the big picture. I am trying to determine how possible would it have been for a person who lived in Ireland in 1840 to buy 100 acres in Canada. This would have been in Ontario, Canada. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Young" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 11:52:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land What is the basis for your theory that the land was purchased when your POI [person of interest] was in Ireland? What township and what district was the land in? Where in Ireland was your POI? I seriously doubt a "normal" person in Ireland could purchase land in Canada in abstentia. However, the land barons [literally] in Ireland probably could have purchased or been given large tracts that they would then sell off. Judy wrote: At 12:26 PM -0600 5/29/10, [email protected] wrote: >The land was purchased in Ontario in 1839 from a private person? It >consisted of 100 acres.? This individual died in Canada in 1858.? >The land was willed to his brother.? In his will he lists no wife or >children and is buried near his brother ALONE.? Almost everyone has >this guy married with about 7 kids which I believe to be wrong.? So >I am trying to prove all of this. -- David N Young San Diego, CA researching Young, Norwood, Barrons, Smith, Pocock, Peacock, Moon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Linda, This verify's what my wife has been able to find.  Thank you very much for this information it helps us a great deal. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 4:28:14 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [S-I] 1803 Agricultural Census Antrim Ireland No, Sorry, he would not. The census was taken due to the threat of Great Britain caused by Napoleon. The government made plans in the late 1790s to respond to an invasion including passing legislation that required the lord lieutenant of each county, esp. maritime, to make certain returns related to these defenses. They were to enumerate live stock, wagons, horses available for transport and amount of crops stored. Under the Act of Union the same was required of Ireland. The only surviving returns are many parishes in County Down and the northern parishes of County Antrim. The County Down returns sometimes include various categories of livestock and stored crops, with details such as the numbers of carts and of people able to drive cattle and load carts and willing to serve the Government either as volunteers or for hire. Your three year old has no value in such a census. He is not a head of household. As he can't load carts he is also not included in the counts of people willing to load carts for free or hire, where taken. Had an invasion of Antrim or Down happened, he'd be collateral damage, a refugee, an orphan. He was not an asset during an invasion. The census largely consists of names of the heads of farms so if an invasion occured, they could be organized for a response. For many parishes, not even the names of the farm owners are identified. See"Researching Scots-Irish Ancestors" by Roulston and http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/family_history/family_history_more_sources/family_history_19th_century_sources.htm http://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy/censusrtns.html http://www.billmacafee.com/1803agriculturalcensus.htm There's a PDF of Antrim on line here: http://www.billmacafee.com/1803agriculturalcensus.htm (recall the census is hand written 200 years ago so the above transcription might not always correctly interpret the contents). Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Anderson" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 3:55:59 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [S-I] 1803 Agricultural Census Antrim Ireland Hello, I have studied up on this census and would like a little further opinion. Would a wee child age 3 be listed in this census? Thanks Steve Anderson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is complicated....so I just have to get little sections of information to get to the big picture.  I am trying to determine how possible would it have been for a person who lived in Ireland in 1840 to buy 100 acres in Canada.  This would have been in Ontario, Canada. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Young" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 11:52:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land What is the basis for your theory that the land was purchased when your POI [person of interest] was in Ireland?  What township and what district was the land in? Where in Ireland was your POI? I seriously doubt a "normal" person in Ireland could purchase land in Canada in abstentia.  However, the land barons [literally] in Ireland probably could have purchased or been given large tracts that they would then sell off. Judy wrote: At 12:26 PM -0600 5/29/10, [email protected] wrote: >The land was purchased in Ontario in 1839 from a private person? It >consisted of 100 acres.? This individual died in Canada in 1858.? >The land was willed to his brother.? In his will he lists no wife or >children and is buried near his brother ALONE.? Almost everyone has >this guy married with about 7 kids which I believe to be wrong.? So >I am trying to prove all of this. -- David N Young San Diego, CA researching Young, Norwood, Barrons, Smith, Pocock, Peacock, Moon   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

No, Sorry, he would not. The census was taken due to the threat of Great Britain caused by Napoleon. The government made plans in the late 1790s to respond to an invasion including passing legislation that required the lord lieutenant of each county, esp. maritime, to make certain returns related to these defenses. They were to enumerate live stock, wagons, horses available for transport and amount of crops stored. Under the Act of Union the same was required of Ireland. The only surviving returns are many parishes in County Down and the northern parishes of County Antrim. The County Down returns sometimes include various categories of livestock and stored crops, with details such as the numbers of carts and of people able to drive cattle and load carts and willing to serve the Government either as volunteers or for hire. Your three year old has no value in such a census. He is not a head of household. As he can't load carts he is also not included in the counts of people willing to load carts for free or hire, where taken. Had an invasion of Antrim or Down happened, he'd be collateral damage, a refugee, an orphan. He was not an asset during an invasion. The census largely consists of names of the heads of farms so if an invasion occured, they could be organized for a response. For many parishes, not even the names of the farm owners are identified. See"Researching Scots-Irish Ancestors" by Roulston and http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/family_history/family_history_more_sources/family_history_19th_century_sources.htm http://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy/censusrtns.html http://www.billmacafee.com/1803agriculturalcensus.htm There's a PDF of Antrim on line here: http://www.billmacafee.com/1803agriculturalcensus.htm (recall the census is hand written 200 years ago so the above transcription might not always correctly interpret the contents). Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Anderson" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 3:55:59 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [S-I] 1803 Agricultural Census Antrim Ireland Hello, I have studied up on this census and would like a little further opinion. Would a wee child age 3 be listed in this census? Thanks Steve Anderson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Where in Ontario, Judy? There are wonderful land records in Ontario. I live in Ontario and might hazard a guess if I knew where. We know when -- 1840, but where along with when is key. Ruth Sent from my iPod On 2010-05-29, at 7:31 PM, Judy Anderson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > This is complicated....so I just have to get little sections of > information to get to the big picture. I am trying to determine how > possible would it have been for a person who lived in Ireland in > 1840 to buy 100 acres in Canada. This would have been in Ontario, > Canada. > > > > Judy > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Young" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 11:52:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land > > What is the basis for your theory that the land was purchased when > your POI [person of interest] was in Ireland? What township and what > district was the land in? > > Where in Ireland was your POI? > > I seriously doubt a "normal" person in Ireland could purchase land in > Canada in abstentia. However, the land barons [literally] in Ireland > probably could have purchased or been given large tracts that they > would then sell off. > > Judy wrote: > > At 12:26 PM -0600 5/29/10, [email protected] wrote: >> The land was purchased in Ontario in 1839 from a private person? It >> consisted of 100 acres.? This individual died in Canada in 1858.? >> The land was willed to his brother.? In his will he lists no wife or >> children and is buried near his brother ALONE.? Almost everyone has >> this guy married with about 7 kids which I believe to be wrong.? So >> I am trying to prove all of this. > > > > > > -- > David N Young > San Diego, CA > researching Young, Norwood, Barrons, Smith, Pocock, Peacock, Moon > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Hello, I have studied up on this census and would like a little further opinion.  Would a wee child age 3 be listed in this census? Thanks Steve Anderson

Judy: Normally, the application was made in Ontario, from specially appointed Land Grand Sites, appointed by the government. Depending on where the person wanted to locate, would indicate where the application site would be. There were many Canada Land Agents in Ireland, handing out multiple page instructions, on how to apply for a land grand in Ontario. I am not aware of any that could be made while in Ireland. Many/most of these can be obtained on the internet. Many can also be obtained on the "The Ships List" Web Site. You may also want to subscribe to the Can/Ont/York , or Can/Ont/Upper Canada Rootsweb Mailing Lists, which would be able to supply most of this info. Regards Jim White Naples, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Young" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 1:52 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land > What is the basis for your theory that the land was purchased when > your POI [person of interest] was in Ireland? What township and what > district was the land in? > > Where in Ireland was your POI? > > I seriously doubt a "normal" person in Ireland could purchase land in > Canada in abstentia. However, the land barons [literally] in Ireland > probably could have purchased or been given large tracts that they > would then sell off. > > Judy wrote: > > At 12:26 PM -0600 5/29/10, [email protected] wrote: >>The land was purchased in Ontario in 1839 from a private person? It >>consisted of 100 acres.? This individual died in Canada in 1858.? >>The land was willed to his brother.? In his will he lists no wife or >>children and is buried near his brother ALONE.? Almost everyone has >>this guy married with about 7 kids which I believe to be wrong.? So >>I am trying to prove all of this. > > > > > > -- > David N Young > San Diego, CA > researching Young, Norwood, Barrons, Smith, Pocock, Peacock, Moon > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 5117 (20100515) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5117 (20100515) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

Hi Judy: My gg grand father, John White, bought a 100 acre farm in Ontario, in 1842, for 100 pounds. Canada was not yet a country (1867), and Ontario was actually called Upper Canada, and Canada West, at various times, during this period. What we now know as Ontario, was using British currency, pounds, at this time. John White paid 15 pounds down, and 12 pounds per year, for 5 years. When the last payment was made, he received his deed. If you know the exact lot and concession numbers, you can obtain a copy of the land register, which completely details every transaction on that lot, from the time it was turned over to The Canada Company ( a land holding company) , by the Crown, to sell the property. Regards Jim White Naples, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Anderson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land > > > This is complicated....so I just have to get little sections of > information to get to the big picture. I am trying to determine how > possible would it have been for a person who lived in Ireland in 1840 to > buy 100 acres in Canada. This would have been in Ontario, Canada. > > > > Judy > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Young" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 11:52:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land > > What is the basis for your theory that the land was purchased when > your POI [person of interest] was in Ireland? What township and what > district was the land in? > > Where in Ireland was your POI? > > I seriously doubt a "normal" person in Ireland could purchase land in > Canada in abstentia. However, the land barons [literally] in Ireland > probably could have purchased or been given large tracts that they > would then sell off. > > Judy wrote: > > At 12:26 PM -0600 5/29/10, [email protected] wrote: >>The land was purchased in Ontario in 1839 from a private person? It >>consisted of 100 acres.? This individual died in Canada in 1858.? >>The land was willed to his brother.? In his will he lists no wife or >>children and is buried near his brother ALONE.? Almost everyone has >>this guy married with about 7 kids which I believe to be wrong.? So >>I am trying to prove all of this. > > > > > > -- > David N Young > San Diego, CA > researching Young, Norwood, Barrons, Smith, Pocock, Peacock, Moon > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5117 (20100515) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

Hi Judy, some lines are like that. May they did have the family but they died before him? I'd do a through look of all the deeds to see just who he might have bought or sold to as well as who they were. Also do a thorough check, if you can, for what passes for probate court records. The will tells you who it wanted it to go to. Maybe he hated them all. They might haved challenged the will. The courthouse might have burned down with the records -- but you can find a partition 50 years late. If you can find published abstracts of deeds (and wills), this really helps you to do a search of all these deeds quickly. If anyone contested his will it could have gone on for a very long time. Also I have one client, they were still dealing with his land almost 50 years after he died. The daughters and sons moved off, leaving one I suspect farming it all. Slowly slowly he talked the sibs into giving their shares to him -- almost 50 years later. During that one one unmarried sister died and passed her share to another sister, so when she sold to the brother, we learned what we suspected: the one sister had died young without heirs. we got the married name of the surviving sister and where she had moved to from that settlement. If there are supposed relativies about with the same surname, the deeds, if not the wills and probates, will sort out a lot. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Anderson" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 2:13:34 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land The land was purchased in Ontario in 1839 from a private person It consisted of 100 acres. This individual died in Canada in 1858. The land was willed to his brother. In his will he lists no wife or children and is buried near his brother ALONE. Almost everyone has this guy married with about 7 kids which I believe to be wrong. So I am trying to prove all of this. Was I expecting an easy answer well maybe...but nothing has been easy with this family! Thank You Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 10:52:06 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land Hi Judy, who did they buy the land from and where was it precisely? That'll tell you a lot. Sometimes it can be complicated searching for land purchases -- ie if it was purchased from the government the purchase may have been recorded in a different set of records than if it was a private purchase. Usually we think to check the deed index -- which usually only records private purchases. If it was a public purchase of land made available by law the 'grant' may not even record the purchase price because everyone would have known the rate set by the government. This has led some to mistake these 'grants' as a free gift for some service, such a military service. However the word 'grant' had a different meaning than we construe. In some cases one of the conditions was you had to settle the land and farm it. Having done that for a set time you either were given it or could purchase it at a reduced rate. I'm thinking of a Kentucky situation that turned land over to very early settlers (to avoid another Revolution <grin>!!). Sometimes the history of the township or county will also clue you in. If it was military land, for example, one received a warrant for service. You could sell the warrant, in which case, no, you didn't settle the land. The warrant was conveyed to someone else who then staked a claim and eventually got the patent for the land (unless he sold it with the warrant and someone else patented it). These military warrants and grants were in different indexes -- military indexes. The final result might be recorded in the county land records. So if you are looking at a military warrant, no, that might not have been settled. Check patents. You might need to study the law to find out where it was legal to claim that warrant. All this is very generic. So which area do you mean: Ontario, Nova Scotia???? The county and township might help too. Ie if the area was a military reserve and if they were there, then you can look for military records. Of course you could stake a claim and sell it to anyone and not really settle it. Or when you got there another family was residing on it, having not filed paperwork. They offered to buy you out and you took it. Land speculation was big in the New World -- and often people think land purchase means settlement, but it ain't necessarily so. Sometimes tax records can help -- ie they might indicate the tax is the responsibility of someone 'of' another place. Or check the deed or deeds -- they may give the residence. This can be very helpful for determining prior residence. Im thinking of a recent case of a Thomas Johnston. The earliest deed said he was a merchant in Baltimore. The US 1830 census appears to have him living in the residence of his son. Or perhaps the son was subletting to Santa Claus, on vacation from the Pole at the time of the census, and the elderly man isn't Thomas at all..... I had the same question about a William McCamish who bought land in 1751 in the far west of Cumberland County, the future Franklin. Was he the guy living in Philladelphia with the same name? There didn't seem to be any indication in any of the deeds that he didn't live there, and he did a fair amount of buying and selling with adjacent neighbors, so I think he was there for real. Your question is like the same one asked for the United States in 1759....no such place existed then and the parts were under different jurisdictions. It could be that some legislature opened public land for settlement stipulating that the people who purchased must settle. To get to that law, though, we'd need to know which province and ideally what county and township. (This is asking a lot: some of those Canuky townships changed more often than the US ones). The location may tell you it's a militiary reserve which might explain what leads you to ansk the question. The purpose of legislature requiring settlement would be to stop land speculators from gulping it all up like they so frequently did south of the Canadian border, or if done by a private proprietor, to get the dang place settled with peasant families who would pay a fee each year to the land own -- ie -- a steady income. They absorbed a lot of arrows, south of the border at least. Hundreds of acres owned by one landgrabber could harbor large villages of Indians, but even a light sprinkling of settler families drove off the game and with it went the Indians. You had hoped for an easy answer..... Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Anderson" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 1:21:40 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [S-I] Owning Land Hello, I would like to know if anyone might know if you could live in Ireland and buy land in Canada in the about 1839-1840? Thank You Judy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The land was purchased in Ontario in 1839 from a private person  It consisted of 100 acres.  This individual died in Canada in 1858.  The land was willed to his brother.  In his will he lists no wife or children and is buried near his brother ALONE.  Almost everyone has this guy married with about 7 kids which I believe to be wrong.  So I am trying to prove all of this. Was I expecting an easy answer well maybe...but nothing has been easy with this family! Thank You Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 10:52:06 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [S-I] Owning Land Hi Judy, who did they buy the land from and where was it precisely? That'll tell you a lot. Sometimes it can be complicated searching for land purchases -- ie if it was purchased from the government the purchase may have been recorded in a different set of records than if it was a private purchase. Usually we think to check the deed index -- which usually only records private purchases. If it was a public purchase of land made available by law the 'grant' may not even record the purchase price because everyone would have known the rate set by the government. This has led some to mistake these 'grants' as a free gift for some service, such a military service. However the word 'grant' had a different meaning than we construe. In some cases one of the conditions was you had to settle the land and farm it. Having done that for a set time you either were given it or could purchase it at a reduced rate. I'm thinking of a Kentucky situation that turned land over to very early settlers (to avoid another Revolution <grin>!!). Sometimes the history of the township or county will also clue you in. If it was military land, for example, one received a warrant for service. You could sell the warrant, in which case, no, you didn't settle the land. The warrant was conveyed to someone else who then staked a claim and eventually got the patent for the land (unless he sold it with the warrant and someone else patented it). These military warrants and grants were in different indexes -- military indexes. The final result might be recorded in the county land records. So if you are looking at a military warrant, no, that might not have been settled. Check patents. You might need to study the law to find out where it was legal to claim that warrant. All this is very generic. So which area do you mean: Ontario, Nova Scotia???? The county and township might help too. Ie if the area was a military reserve and if they were there, then you can look for military records. Of course you could stake a claim and sell it to anyone and not really settle it. Or when you got there another family was residing on it, having not filed paperwork. They offered to buy you out and you took it. Land speculation was big in the New World -- and often people think land purchase means settlement, but it ain't necessarily so. Sometimes tax records can help -- ie they might indicate the tax is the responsibility of someone 'of' another place. Or check the deed or deeds -- they may give the residence. This can be very helpful for determining prior residence. Im thinking of a recent case of a Thomas Johnston. The earliest deed said he was a merchant in Baltimore. The US 1830 census appears to have him living in the residence of his son. Or perhaps the son was subletting to Santa Claus, on vacation from the Pole at the time of the census, and the elderly man isn't Thomas at all..... I had the same question about a William McCamish who bought land in 1751 in the far west of Cumberland County, the future Franklin. Was he the guy living in Philladelphia with the same name? There didn't seem to be any indication in any of the deeds that he didn't live there, and he did a fair amount of buying and selling with adjacent neighbors, so I think he was there for real. Your question is like the same one asked for the United States in 1759....no such place existed then and the parts were under different jurisdictions. It could be that some legislature opened public land for settlement stipulating that the people who purchased must settle. To get to that law, though, we'd need to know which province and ideally what county and township. (This is asking a lot: some of those Canuky townships changed more often than the US ones). The location may tell you it's a militiary reserve which might explain what leads you to ansk the question. The purpose of legislature requiring settlement would be to stop land speculators from gulping it all up like they so frequently did south of the Canadian border, or if done by a private proprietor, to get the dang place settled with peasant families who would pay a fee each year to the land own -- ie -- a steady income. They absorbed a lot of arrows, south of the border at least. Hundreds of acres owned by one landgrabber could harbor large villages of Indians, but even a light sprinkling of settler families drove off the game and with it went the Indians. You had hoped for an easy answer..... Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Anderson" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 1:21:40 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [S-I] Owning Land Hello, I would like to know if anyone might know if you could live in Ireland and buy land in Canada in the about 1839-1840? Thank You Judy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Judy, who did they buy the land from and where was it precisely? That'll tell you a lot. Sometimes it can be complicated searching for land purchases -- ie if it was purchased from the government the purchase may have been recorded in a different set of records than if it was a private purchase. Usually we think to check the deed index -- which usually only records private purchases. If it was a public purchase of land made available by law the 'grant' may not even record the purchase price because everyone would have known the rate set by the government. This has led some to mistake these 'grants' as a free gift for some service, such a military service. However the word 'grant' had a different meaning than we construe. In some cases one of the conditions was you had to settle the land and farm it. Having done that for a set time you either were given it or could purchase it at a reduced rate. I'm thinking of a Kentucky situation that turned land over to very early settlers (to avoid another Revolution <grin>!!). Sometimes the history of the township or county will also clue you in. If it was military land, for example, one received a warrant for service. You could sell the warrant, in which case, no, you didn't settle the land. The warrant was conveyed to someone else who then staked a claim and eventually got the patent for the land (unless he sold it with the warrant and someone else patented it). These military warrants and grants were in different indexes -- military indexes. The final result might be recorded in the county land records. So if you are looking at a military warrant, no, that might not have been settled. Check patents. You might need to study the law to find out where it was legal to claim that warrant. All this is very generic. So which area do you mean: Ontario, Nova Scotia???? The county and township might help too. Ie if the area was a military reserve and if they were there, then you can look for military records. Of course you could stake a claim and sell it to anyone and not really settle it. Or when you got there another family was residing on it, having not filed paperwork. They offered to buy you out and you took it. Land speculation was big in the New World -- and often people think land purchase means settlement, but it ain't necessarily so. Sometimes tax records can help -- ie they might indicate the tax is the responsibility of someone 'of' another place. Or check the deed or deeds -- they may give the residence. This can be very helpful for determining prior residence. Im thinking of a recent case of a Thomas Johnston. The earliest deed said he was a merchant in Baltimore. The US 1830 census appears to have him living in the residence of his son. Or perhaps the son was subletting to Santa Claus, on vacation from the Pole at the time of the census, and the elderly man isn't Thomas at all..... I had the same question about a William McCamish who bought land in 1751 in the far west of Cumberland County, the future Franklin. Was he the guy living in Philladelphia with the same name? There didn't seem to be any indication in any of the deeds that he didn't live there, and he did a fair amount of buying and selling with adjacent neighbors, so I think he was there for real. Your question is like the same one asked for the United States in 1759....no such place existed then and the parts were under different jurisdictions. It could be that some legislature opened public land for settlement stipulating that the people who purchased must settle. To get to that law, though, we'd need to know which province and ideally what county and township. (This is asking a lot: some of those Canuky townships changed more often than the US ones). The location may tell you it's a militiary reserve which might explain what leads you to ansk the question. The purpose of legislature requiring settlement would be to stop land speculators from gulping it all up like they so frequently did south of the Canadian border, or if done by a private proprietor, to get the dang place settled with peasant families who would pay a fee each year to the land own -- ie -- a steady income. They absorbed a lot of arrows, south of the border at least. Hundreds of acres owned by one landgrabber could harbor large villages of Indians, but even a light sprinkling of settler families drove off the game and with it went the Indians. You had hoped for an easy answer..... Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Anderson" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 1:21:40 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [S-I] Owning Land Hello, I would like to know if anyone might know if you could live in Ireland and buy land in Canada in the about 1839-1840? Thank You Judy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, I would like to know if anyone  might know if you could live in Ireland and buy land in Canada in the about 1839-1840? Thank You Judy

Hi Folks, Today I got my first identifiable match at www.23andme.com . I share strands of DNA with a few others, but we don't have surnames in common and their genealogy is probably not back far enough to spot the common ancestor. Today I got a message from a potential fifth cousin. She and I descend from different children of Frances Beatty Black (1825-1917) who married Mary Martin (1825-1918) in western Pennsylvania. Mary Martin was born in Aryshire, Scotland and migrated with her family. Frances descends from the brother of the Rev. John Black (Antrim to Pittsburgh) and another well known American Covenantor line: that of John Beatty, whose family left Ulster in 1729 and settled in Wallkill, New York. Frances is my great great grandfather. These people lived long and bred often so there is probably a lot of their genes loose in the American population. Now if those others match on the same segments, we know our relationship and could do some genealogy to identify it. Linda Merle

Hi, Judy. Judy It would be helpful if you could give more information in relation to your question, such as which of the Canadian colonies you are interested in and whether you mean buy land while living in Ireland with the intention of settling in Canada or live in Ireland and own land in Canada. The time period you are interested in was still within the period of settlement for many parts of eastern Canada. Individuals like Colonel Thomas Talbot and companies like the Canada Company promoted large scale settlement with advertising campaigns in Europe. However, as far as I know, the settlers had to appear in person in Canada to receive the settlement 'locations'. Generally, the settlers were met by agents when the arrived who provided advice on promising areas for settlement. Once they were 'located', they had a time period to meet their settlement duties which had to be met for them to actually receive title to the land, which was known as the patent. In the case of some of my ancestors, several of the men came to Canada and were located. Then, leaving a son or two behind to begin clearing land in order to meet their settlement duties they returned to get the rest of their families. In one case, my ancestor was located in 1831 but his return to Canada was delayed by the rebellions in 1837 and likely also by the European depression in 1837-38. By the time he was able to return to Canada in the 1840s, his sons had completed the settlement duties on three tracts of land and they applied for and received their patents the year he returned. As far as I know, once you received the patent there was nothing stopping you from selling to land to whomever you chose or even returning to Europe and leasing the land or letting other members of the family work it. John Carey Hamilton, ON CANADA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Judy Anderson Sent: May 29, 2010 1:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [S-I] Owning Land Hello, I would like to know if anyone might know if you could live in Ireland and buy land in Canada in the about 1839-1840? Thank You Judy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Linda- The most amazing aspect of all this is that it PROVES you both made no errors in this lineage/research because science backs up the connection. If any questionable heritage might be found in the research (non-paternity events, etc.) you can now rule out any doubts that might have existed for either of you. I LOVE when that happens! Joan In a message dated 5/29/2010 11:05:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Folks, Today I got my first identifiable match at www.23andme.com . I share strands of DNA with a few others, but we don't have surnames in common and their genealogy is probably not back far enough to spot the common ancestor. Today I got a message from a potential fifth cousin. She and I descend from different children of Frances Beatty Black (1825-1917) who married Mary Martin (1825-1918) in western Pennsylvania. Mary Martin was born in Aryshire, Scotland and migrated with her family. Frances descends from the brother of the Rev. John Black (Antrim to Pittsburgh) and another well known American Covenantor line: that of John Beatty, whose family left Ulster in 1729 and settled in Wallkill, New York. Frances is my great great grandfather. These people lived long and bred often so there is probably a lot of their genes loose in the American population. Now if those others match on the same segments, we know our relationship and could do some genealogy to identify it. Linda Merle

Linda, that sounds like fun. Congratulations! I hope it works out that your new relatives will want to play genealogy with you! Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [S-I] Found first DNA Genealogy Match > Hi Folks, > > Today I got my first identifiable match at www.23andme.com . I share > strands of DNA with a few others, but we don't have surnames in common and > their genealogy is probably not back far enough to spot the common > ancestor. Today I got a message from a potential fifth cousin. She and I > descend from different children of Frances Beatty Black (1825-1917) who > married Mary Martin (1825-1918) in western Pennsylvania. Mary Martin was > born in Aryshire, Scotland and migrated with her family. Frances descends > from the brother of the Rev. John Black (Antrim to Pittsburgh) and another > well known American Covenantor line: that of John Beatty, whose family > left Ulster in 1729 and settled in Wallkill, New York. Frances is my great > great grandfather. > > These people lived long and bred often so there is probably a lot of their > genes loose in the American population. Now if those others match on the > same segments, we know our relationship and could do some genealogy to > identify it. > > Linda Merle > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >