Sorry but need to correct one BOYD name. Given name is NINIAN not Minian from that list. The others are correct. Colin Brooks The 1718 Project

Re: BOYD Thank you Linda. You took on a huge job with these lookups. :) Diane

Hi Linda When you have nothing else to do could you check for Swan(n) please? DH

It's actually not too bad, once, as you say, one realizes that people could be in neighbouring county, parish, etc. I have kin who lived beside a Pres. Church in 1820's yet travelled with 6 kids into Monaghan Town passing other Pres. Churches en-route..yet they are buried in local church g/yard! a lot of records were written weeks later from 'memory'. I love reading the comments.."No Service, insufficient notice',... 'No Service, buried by family during morning service'..'No Service, buried o/night by family'..no money to pay for funeral!! Having looked at registers and seeing how some are so badly written I presume other Ministers probably did not even note if someone buried a relative during the night!! Your local geography pretty much mirrors how things work in Ireland. Townlands were 'swapped' between parishes so one's kin could be in one parish today and in another tomorrow without even moving! Indeed, some of mine in US are in one state but the state lines were redrawn and they ended up in another state, without leaving home! <grin> If it was easy it would be boring! I can see how frustrating it can be for those not living in Ireland but it's all part of one's history. One of my lot was the Registrar of B.D.M's in Monaghan, yet his kids had to be registered in Co. Cavan as that was the office that covered his townland. Finding records is not the problem, trying to figure out how things worked is more difficult..like I know to go to the Co. Cavan register to get my Co. Monaghan kin. Then comes the renaming of townlands, no point in looking for people in a particular townland in 1700's unless one knows what it was called in 1700's, often completely different than in 1800's. Yes, we had shrouds which were rented for funerals, people often couldn't afford to allow someone to be buried in clothes as these had to be passed on to the living. No separate books were kept for these, perhaps a comment in register. Would we be doing this if it was easy?? Subject: Re: [S-I] BMD 1690 - 1800 records from CHEWEM To:scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <1730840029.2387374.1321026302176.JavaMail.root@sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi D. H., yup, is anything easy in Ireland (genealogically related)? However on the plus side, it's also good to recall that sometimes people went afield to baptize children. So it's always good (the experts tell us, not that it has ever worked out for me<grin>) to check what does survive. Some of the Dublin church records start very early -- early 1600s, maybe earlier (can't recall).

Please look up Kirk's. Thanks Kathy

Hi D. H., yup, is anything easy in Ireland (genealogically related)? However on the plus side, it's also good to recall that sometimes people went afield to baptize children. So it's always good (the experts tell us, not that it has ever worked out for me <grin>) to check what does survive. Some of the Dublin church records start very early -- early 1600s, maybe earlier (can't recall). The Templemore (Derry) records do start very early and people often traveled there. You'll also find many Irish names in its records. They're published, so available in libraries. As well as the FHL. Belfast Presbyterian church records also start earlier and they can contain the names of many people not living in Belfast. Those churches also rented mortclothes to other churches and apparently those survive. Mortclothes is something you encounter in Scottish genealogy. People were not buried in coffins but wrapped. They were conveyed to the church for services drapped in mort clothes, which usually came in several grades and were rented from the kirk. The grades were not big, medium and large but rather concerned quality. The wealthy rented the expensive ones and the poor, well, the real poor went without! They even charged for ringing the bell. In Scotland the church records usually do not include burials or deaths, but you can get an idea who died when by viewing mortclothes. I've viewed a lot in my parishes. (Which is how I know about charging for ringing the bell <grin>). Unfortunately they might say 'best mortclothe Widow Dalrymple" or 'child John Dalrymple, no mortclothe". Apparently they would sometimes borrow mortclothes and other stuff from the rich congregations in Belfast. So the Belfast records are also useful. The easiest way, short of looking in Ryan "Irish Records" to find out what survives is to check http://www.genuki.org.uk/ . Here is also a page for Fianna, which is also excellent (free and on the Internet): http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fianna/county/derry/ldycoi.html Has the names of the parishes and the dates when records start. Also the FHL film number. They're always filming and cataloging so it is best to check the catalog yourself if the records are indicated as locally held. However one immediately runs into problems. Eh.....like, where are all these places?!!! PRONI has some useful maps. These days you always start at http://www.rootsireland.ie/ because that'll uncover for you everything that is indexed and on line. Then you copy and paste what the local Centre said are its sources into your handy-dandy spreadsheet. Then you look at Fianna or whatever to ID what isn't indexed and you've not searched. Then you determine if those are on the Internet or in the FHL. Here's Fianna's Antrim page: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fianna/county/antrim/ant-chur.html Which brings up a couple other problems:.... Like that.a parish is not always the parish you're looking for. There are a couple kinds of parishes. After St. Patrick did in all the Irish gods (another destructive Brit let lose in Ireland......), they organized things into parishes, eventually. By the time of the Reformation in the early 1500s in Ireland, well, parts of Ireland. Nix Ulster... There were parishes and churches. As in England and Scotland the Reformed church just took them over, ejected the monks and nuns, sold off the properties, ravaged the churches of religious goods, etc. The parish, in England, Scotland, and Ireland, was an arm of the civil government in that it kept BMDs and fed the poor. The church probated wills, etc, etc. And so it continued till the mid 1800s when the Catholics were emancipated. Around then too the established church was separated from civil functions, like probating wills and keeping official BMDs. THus Civil Registration. The parishes were then named 'Civil Parishes' and continued to act like townships (here in the USA) -- a small unit of civil administration. They correspond to the old Church of Ireland system which corresponded with what arose in the centuries after St. Patrick. And which still administers its parishes through them. At Emancipation the Catholics set up their own parish system. They took a look about and noted that in the ensuing centuries populations had moved about. Some civil parishes were too heaviliy populated for one church and some were very sparce. So they adjusted them. Consequently the Catholic parishes do not correspond to the civil. To explain how this makes it difficult I'll give this case in Limerick. I got the baptism of the lad and it of course identified his parents. The father was there in the civil parish, but no household with the mother's surname was there. I re-adjusted my viewscreen to Catholic parishes. The local Catholic parish was in several Civil parishes. The village the father's family was in was in the same Catholic parish as another village, in an adjoining Civil parish. But as it was the same Catholic parish, the two families would have attended Mass in the same church. The additional wrinkle for those with Presbyterians is that they were not organized by parishes in Ireland (unlike Scotland where the established church was Presbyterian). However very few people writing books on Irish genealogy every seem to have figured that out. They map the Presbyterian churches into civil parishes. So you, knowing your ancestor lived in this parish, check out the local Presbyterian church physically located in the same parish. But....your ancestors never went there! In fact they were sure those guys were all hell bound! They treked over the hill to a different kirk, by passing several that didn't make the grade on their way. And when they died in Canada they whispered the name of the congregation -- which is nowhere in this huge, expensive book on Irish church records that you bought! You also run into the problem with Episkies -- your ancestor left the name of the church (All Saints, St. Agnes, etc.) and your book or Fianna, etc, only have the names of parishes. Which one is All Saints? These days you can google and usually find out. Still it is aggravating. The last bit of secret information: Psst!! There are no walls between the counties in Ireland. There are actually parishes that are in two counties, straddling counties. This is hard to grasp for an American <grin>. The counties were set up by the English. The townlands and parishes are much older. Not to mention the baronies, but we will ignore them for now <grin>. I once was working on a case that started like all, kinda vague. We did some work and narrowed down the location of the sought for ancestor. We did more work and finally got him to a townland. The townland was on the border between two counties. Client paid to search the relevant church records in the county which it was in. Never found the family. Checking the estate, the estate was actually 90% in the other county. Estates evolved from medieval manors -- a notion also used by Wm Penn in Pennsylvania. They didn't survive the test of time here, either. But once they were where the local court met -- the manor. That is because there wasn't any town yet and everyone lived on the estate anyway, which had a big house. The roads, such as you had, were maintained by the lord of the manor. Everything evolved around the manor including much social life. The church was near the manor too. So I suspected these guys, noting the lack of wall between county A and B, went to church with the rest of the estate -- in the adjoining county. It's very possible they didn't even realize that their townland was in a different county from the rest. Client didn't want to continue, having become broke or depressed. Probably both. This was before the free index came on line (above) so you laboriously searched each and every church and parish. Even at PRONI this is time consuming and costly. I live in an area where 4 counties adjoin. Two don't matter because they're rural and there's nothing there (Armstrong and Indiana Counties, PA). I live in Westmoreland County and look out my window at the Allegheny. Across the river is a huge cliff and that's Allegheny County, to my west. Also the town of Tarentum which has many car dealerships. Apparently people here in Westmoreland don't buy cars there because Everybody Knows the taxes in Allegheny County are higher, due to Pittsburgh. What they don't realize is the tax is based on where you live. In any case, folk here drive 20 miles to Monroeville to buy a car. Can't convince them otherwise. Can't convince the marketing people that there is a bridge (several) and it is one market. So you can't find out what is for sale in Tarentum. The local paper lists the sales in Monroeville. The only reason we go to Monroeville is to shop. We only go to Greensburg (Westmoreland County seat) for jury duty (we don't get arrested <grin>). Seriously, I have asked the neighbors. They have never been to Greensburg but for this one reason. The river turns just south of here to avoid an immense hill (Coxcomb Hill) that it never was able to erode. It is where the Mafia used to execute people and dump the bodies. At its foot the Puckety Creek joins the Allegheny. Once the Indians used it to prey on settlers. It is the southern boundary with Allegheny County, which surrounds us on two sides. This area, New Kensington, is a small flat area, maybe 3 miles wide or so. Not a lot of cemetery space (though I live 3 blocks from Union). So most are buried elsewhere. My paternal grandparents are up Coxcomb Hill in a huge cemetery full of residents of Westmoreland County. If you think boundaries like this matter for searching burials, baptisms, etc, think again. They never lived in that county but they are buried there. Like a client of mine, trying to get Irish citizenship. We ran into many problems such as his grandfather didn't exist nor did the parents he invented in the old country so he could marry an Irish girl in Indianapolis. Someone was looking for grandpa and he made a few adjustments to extend his life, I suspect. Thank heavens, Grandma was not wanted by anyone and we did find her in Ireland. However he needed the marriage certificate of his parents. They had lived all their lives in Allegheny County in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is a pain to deal with. He had to go over and try to get the certificate. They didn't have it they claimed. He went twice! Still....no certificate. Now these people were devout Catholics. They did get married. However the diocese only lets one researcher into its sacred archives so we decided to bypass them for now. I prepared for a County Troll, where you troll all the counties, every one keeping records differently. Arrrg!! Just by luck, I started with Westmoreland, because its index was online free. What! They got married in Westmoreland. Why? No one has a clue. But they both treked off to a far away place to get married. Client did get Irish citizenship. I must add too that if it is such a nightmare to research people only two generations back, no wonder we have such a hard time a hundred years or more earlier. Same in Ireland -- they aren't always where they should be, which is why the on line indexes are so wonderful. At least one thing is now easy to do. Old Scots blessing: "May someone be able to afford bell ringing at your funeral." <grin> Linda Merle BTW ----- Original Message ----- From: "D H" <hallmark1@utvinternet.com> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 3:38:28 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] BMD 1690 - 1800 records from CHEWEM Ehhh...some mouthful there Linda, agree with everything you say!! The starting date for C of I basically start in a parish when someone decided to start them. some go back to 1600's, others start in 1800's so there is no answer to "When did church of I records start?" As for;.. "The first attempt had each county funded to hire some local eejit to locate and index records into a computer. Then the diaspora wrote letters enclosing cash." ..... I agree whole heartedly...you got some local eejit who MIGHT be able to use a computer to put records together, he in turn got a few other eejits to help, these were unemployed eejits who got a few extra pounds a week on top of their unemployment money to put in data. These eejits, in general, could not care any less about accuracy....These records are as good as using a paper bag to carry water!! I've seen some of these records and I can tell you I have had nothing but trouble from "relatives" contacting me insisting they are related...GRRRRRR and all because these eejits have put 1 + 1 together to make 3! Yes the records may look right but they are far from it..the hub of my family stem from Co. Monaghan and I've seen tree after tree on Ancestry with these "eejit records" used, they are PUBLIC TREES and becoming gospel! more GRRRRRR.. These have also been put on Familysearch by submitters who think they have their tree correct, I've looked up some of mine and can't believe my eyes!!!...even more GRRRRRRRRR The records of The Established Church of England and Ireland are public records, the Church Of Ireland are not. I have also seen indices of Church Records put together by these eejits stating records for a particular church 'don't exist/destroyed in Dublin', when in fact the records do indeed exist.... more GRRRRR.. So far, I've only had these bad experiences in Co. Monaghan...oh if only they had allowed unemployed people with a modicum of interest in Genealogy to compile them!!! Neither Familysearch, nor the submitters, nor Ancestry Tree Owners can be blamed for putting up what they believe to be true.... the fault lies, as you say, with these eejits!!!! These "expert" records have done more harm than good!!! To call them eejits is an insult to eejits!! I've even fallen out with a distant cousin I've never met because she insisted she was my g/aunt because these "records" told her so!! I could go GRRRRRR here but I won't. Some of these eejits actually believe they are now experts and are too thick to realize the damage they have done. Thankfully it doesn't annoy me as you can see! AS FOR... "Some of the people hired were more fit for herding sheep. Standards were not maintained."... This is an insult to shepherds who are quite intelligent... :-))) As for standards.... What standards??? ________________________________________ To other poster; As you can see, the best and most reliable way to get Tuam records would be for your cousin to take a spin over from Fermanagh to look at them if they are in Tuam. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ On 10/11/2011 15:52, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:59:43 +0000 (UTC) > From:lmerle@comcast.net > Subject: Re: [S-I] BMD 1690 - 1800 records from TUAM > To:scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <147368241.2328006.1320937183166.JavaMail.root@sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Sean, I don't recall mentioning any bmds from Galway or anywhere else. I mentioned a website: > http://www.rootsireland.ie/ It is the last in a series of attempts by the Irish to provide access to BMDs in a way that didn't result in them being cursed widely on the Internet for a variety of faults or sins, while harvesting money from the diaspora (a diaspora that expects everything for nothing). > > The first attempt had each county funded to hire some local eejit to locate and index records into a computer. Then the diaspora wrote letters enclosing cash. This didn't work out too well because some counties did good but some really bad. Some of the people hired were more fit for herding sheep. Standards were not maintained. The diaspora didn't want to wait months after sending large amounts of cash to a foreign country, especially when they got no results or responses other than the canceled check. Some of course did much better. > > This attempt has aggregated the indexes into one database which is free on the Internet. Then the diaspora can do the searching themselves. They are directed to the website of the county and once they pay some cash, are provided on line with a transcription of the actual text. Or (and) they can order up a copy of the real thing. Of course it might be in the FHL but as we know from the Scots, it is not so hard to get the diaspora to pay money for what they could get free or almost if they learned a bit. They want instant access and so they pay for it. > > In many cases the indexes and records, before, could only be got by hiring someone in Dublin if not locally (not all in Dublin, but most were). Meanwhile the law prosecuted a few bishops who wouldn't let anyone see the records (parts of Limerick come to mind). While they were ruled public records, if I recall correctly, I don't know if one can get access to all of them right now. The local genealogy centre can tell you. The Limerick ones were filmed and in Dublin but no one was allowed to view them. I was dealing with a case in Limerick, which is why it is on my mind. We located the ancestor without needing to bother with the bishop, thank heavens. Or is he an archbishop? I donno...I know he's a pain, but that's all. > > It's a bit of a wide sweep to claim that no records are recorded before a certain date. Actually the CHurch of IReland records begin much earlier. However not all parishes survive due to the Four Courts Fire. Many Irish and Presbyterians were baptized in the Church of Ireland. In the first course you take in Irish genealogy they tell you ALWAYS check those records. How? Well, you just did at the site above. Try IGI. Also using Ryan "Irish Records", identify the status of parish records surrounding where your ancestor lived. It'll tell you if they were locally held or microfilmed at the date of publication of the book. > > > Happy hunting, > > Linda Merle ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If he /she can get permission. Some Church of Ireland parishes will not let people look at their records without going through many hoops. Incidentally many church records are not too accurate either. It all depends on when the Minister took his notes from his notebook and put them in the Register! I for instance am in the parish register as child of my Uncle and Aunt so not all idiots are outside the Church! Ella -----Original Message----- From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of D H Sent: 11 November 2011 08:38 To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [S-I] BMD 1690 - 1800 records from CHEWEM Ehhh...some mouthful there Linda, agree with everything you say!! The starting date for C of I basically start in a parish when someone decided to start them. some go back to 1600's, others start in 1800's so there is no answer to "When did church of I records start?" As for;.. "The first attempt had each county funded to hire some local eejit to locate and index records into a computer. Then the diaspora wrote letters enclosing cash." ..... I agree whole heartedly...you got some local eejit who MIGHT be able to use a computer to put records together, he in turn got a few other eejits to help, these were unemployed eejits who got a few extra pounds a week on top of their unemployment money to put in data. These eejits, in general, could not care any less about accuracy....These records are as good as using a paper bag to carry water!! I've seen some of these records and I can tell you I have had nothing but trouble from "relatives" contacting me insisting they are related...GRRRRRR and all because these eejits have put 1 + 1 together to make 3! Yes the records may look right but they are far from it..the hub of my family stem from Co. Monaghan and I've seen tree after tree on Ancestry with these "eejit records" used, they are PUBLIC TREES and becoming gospel! more GRRRRRR.. These have also been put on Familysearch by submitters who think they have their tree correct, I've looked up some of mine and can't believe my eyes!!!...even more GRRRRRRRRR The records of The Established Church of England and Ireland are public records, the Church Of Ireland are not. I have also seen indices of Church Records put together by these eejits stating records for a particular church 'don't exist/destroyed in Dublin', when in fact the records do indeed exist.... more GRRRRR.. So far, I've only had these bad experiences in Co. Monaghan...oh if only they had allowed unemployed people with a modicum of interest in Genealogy to compile them!!! Neither Familysearch, nor the submitters, nor Ancestry Tree Owners can be blamed for putting up what they believe to be true.... the fault lies, as you say, with these eejits!!!! These "expert" records have done more harm than good!!! To call them eejits is an insult to eejits!! I've even fallen out with a distant cousin I've never met because she insisted she was my g/aunt because these "records" told her so!! I could go GRRRRRR here but I won't. Some of these eejits actually believe they are now experts and are too thick to realize the damage they have done. Thankfully it doesn't annoy me as you can see! AS FOR... "Some of the people hired were more fit for herding sheep. Standards were not maintained."... This is an insult to shepherds who are quite intelligent... :-))) As for standards.... What standards??? ________________________________________ To other poster; As you can see, the best and most reliable way to get Tuam records would be for your cousin to take a spin over from Fermanagh to look at them if they are in Tuam. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ On 10/11/2011 15:52, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:59:43 +0000 (UTC) > From:lmerle@comcast.net > Subject: Re: [S-I] BMD 1690 - 1800 records from TUAM > To:scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <147368241.2328006.1320937183166.JavaMail.root@sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Sean, I don't recall mentioning any bmds from Galway or anywhere else. I mentioned a website: > http://www.rootsireland.ie/ It is the last in a series of attempts by the Irish to provide access to BMDs in a way that didn't result in them being cursed widely on the Internet for a variety of faults or sins, while harvesting money from the diaspora (a diaspora that expects everything for nothing). > > The first attempt had each county funded to hire some local eejit to locate and index records into a computer. Then the diaspora wrote letters enclosing cash. This didn't work out too well because some counties did good but some really bad. Some of the people hired were more fit for herding sheep. Standards were not maintained. The diaspora didn't want to wait months after sending large amounts of cash to a foreign country, especially when they got no results or responses other than the canceled check. Some of course did much better. > > This attempt has aggregated the indexes into one database which is free on the Internet. Then the diaspora can do the searching themselves. They are directed to the website of the county and once they pay some cash, are provided on line with a transcription of the actual text. Or (and) they can order up a copy of the real thing. Of course it might be in the FHL but as we know from the Scots, it is not so hard to get the diaspora to pay money for what they could get free or almost if they learned a bit. They want instant access and so they pay for it. > > In many cases the indexes and records, before, could only be got by hiring someone in Dublin if not locally (not all in Dublin, but most were). Meanwhile the law prosecuted a few bishops who wouldn't let anyone see the records (parts of Limerick come to mind). While they were ruled public records, if I recall correctly, I don't know if one can get access to all of them right now. The local genealogy centre can tell you. The Limerick ones were filmed and in Dublin but no one was allowed to view them. I was dealing with a case in Limerick, which is why it is on my mind. We located the ancestor without needing to bother with the bishop, thank heavens. Or is he an archbishop? I donno...I know he's a pain, but that's all. > > It's a bit of a wide sweep to claim that no records are recorded before a certain date. Actually the CHurch of IReland records begin much earlier. However not all parishes survive due to the Four Courts Fire. Many Irish and Presbyterians were baptized in the Church of Ireland. In the first course you take in Irish genealogy they tell you ALWAYS check those records. How? Well, you just did at the site above. Try IGI. Also using Ryan "Irish Records", identify the status of parish records surrounding where your ancestor lived. It'll tell you if they were locally held or microfilmed at the date of publication of the book. > > > Happy hunting, > > Linda Merle ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sara: Your Fleming connection is very important to me and further, I have some significant Fleming information for you. I would love (read beg!) to correspond with you and compare information. Would you provide an email address? And yes, Linda is the best ever researcher and to be commended for her sharing efforts! Bob Lindsay; Colorado USA Email Checked by Norton -----Original Message----- From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Sarah Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 8:20 AM To: Scotch-Irish Subject: [S-I] Fw: look-up for me -----07, 2011 11:46 AM Subject: [S-I] look-up for me > Hi linda, > What would this site do without you??? > All your wisdom and know-how is great. Thanks a million. > Can you look for our Key,& Armstrong names. I have O"Hara around there too > but may be down in Sligo area. I had my Fleming family and extended other > names of Mackie, Cayce, Renick, Ash, Davison, and Adrian. These were married into the Fleming line.. They were in Co. Tyrone and came over to US in early 1720s-30s. 1st names were Robert, Eliijah, Alexander, . What a jewel you are to help us. Thanks a million, Sarah > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1869 / Virus Database: 2092/4602 - Release Date: 11/07/11 > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I echo that. But it's not just the Church of Ireland. The records from a Presbyterian church in Co. Armagh where I knew my family was from were in local hands and for years, the Minister flat our refused to allow access to anyone. We finally got access after he died and his successor was more cooperative. As far as I know, they still have not been filmed. John -----Original Message----- From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ella Patterson Sent: November-11-11 5:02 AM To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [S-I] BMD 1690 - 1800 records from CHEWEM If he /she can get permission. Some Church of Ireland parishes will not let people look at their records without going through many hoops. Incidentally many church records are not too accurate either. It all depends on when the Minister took his notes from his notebook and put them in the Register! I for instance am in the parish register as child of my Uncle and Aunt so not all idiots are outside the Church! Ella

Ehhh...some mouthful there Linda, agree with everything you say!! The starting date for C of I basically start in a parish when someone decided to start them. some go back to 1600's, others start in 1800's so there is no answer to "When did church of I records start?" As for;.. "The first attempt had each county funded to hire some local eejit to locate and index records into a computer. Then the diaspora wrote letters enclosing cash." ..... I agree whole heartedly...you got some local eejit who MIGHT be able to use a computer to put records together, he in turn got a few other eejits to help, these were unemployed eejits who got a few extra pounds a week on top of their unemployment money to put in data. These eejits, in general, could not care any less about accuracy....These records are as good as using a paper bag to carry water!! I've seen some of these records and I can tell you I have had nothing but trouble from "relatives" contacting me insisting they are related...GRRRRRR and all because these eejits have put 1 + 1 together to make 3! Yes the records may look right but they are far from it..the hub of my family stem from Co. Monaghan and I've seen tree after tree on Ancestry with these "eejit records" used, they are PUBLIC TREES and becoming gospel! more GRRRRRR.. These have also been put on Familysearch by submitters who think they have their tree correct, I've looked up some of mine and can't believe my eyes!!!...even more GRRRRRRRRR The records of The Established Church of England and Ireland are public records, the Church Of Ireland are not. I have also seen indices of Church Records put together by these eejits stating records for a particular church 'don't exist/destroyed in Dublin', when in fact the records do indeed exist.... more GRRRRR.. So far, I've only had these bad experiences in Co. Monaghan...oh if only they had allowed unemployed people with a modicum of interest in Genealogy to compile them!!! Neither Familysearch, nor the submitters, nor Ancestry Tree Owners can be blamed for putting up what they believe to be true.... the fault lies, as you say, with these eejits!!!! These "expert" records have done more harm than good!!! To call them eejits is an insult to eejits!! I've even fallen out with a distant cousin I've never met because she insisted she was my g/aunt because these "records" told her so!! I could go GRRRRRR here but I won't. Some of these eejits actually believe they are now experts and are too thick to realize the damage they have done. Thankfully it doesn't annoy me as you can see! AS FOR... "Some of the people hired were more fit for herding sheep. Standards were not maintained."... This is an insult to shepherds who are quite intelligent... :-))) As for standards.... What standards??? ________________________________________ To other poster; As you can see, the best and most reliable way to get Tuam records would be for your cousin to take a spin over from Fermanagh to look at them if they are in Tuam. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ On 10/11/2011 15:52, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:59:43 +0000 (UTC) > From:lmerle@comcast.net > Subject: Re: [S-I] BMD 1690 - 1800 records from TUAM > To:scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <147368241.2328006.1320937183166.JavaMail.root@sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Sean, I don't recall mentioning any bmds from Galway or anywhere else. I mentioned a website: > http://www.rootsireland.ie/ It is the last in a series of attempts by the Irish to provide access to BMDs in a way that didn't result in them being cursed widely on the Internet for a variety of faults or sins, while harvesting money from the diaspora (a diaspora that expects everything for nothing). > > The first attempt had each county funded to hire some local eejit to locate and index records into a computer. Then the diaspora wrote letters enclosing cash. This didn't work out too well because some counties did good but some really bad. Some of the people hired were more fit for herding sheep. Standards were not maintained. The diaspora didn't want to wait months after sending large amounts of cash to a foreign country, especially when they got no results or responses other than the canceled check. Some of course did much better. > > This attempt has aggregated the indexes into one database which is free on the Internet. Then the diaspora can do the searching themselves. They are directed to the website of the county and once they pay some cash, are provided on line with a transcription of the actual text. Or (and) they can order up a copy of the real thing. Of course it might be in the FHL but as we know from the Scots, it is not so hard to get the diaspora to pay money for what they could get free or almost if they learned a bit. They want instant access and so they pay for it. > > In many cases the indexes and records, before, could only be got by hiring someone in Dublin if not locally (not all in Dublin, but most were). Meanwhile the law prosecuted a few bishops who wouldn't let anyone see the records (parts of Limerick come to mind). While they were ruled public records, if I recall correctly, I don't know if one can get access to all of them right now. The local genealogy centre can tell you. The Limerick ones were filmed and in Dublin but no one was allowed to view them. I was dealing with a case in Limerick, which is why it is on my mind. We located the ancestor without needing to bother with the bishop, thank heavens. Or is he an archbishop? I donno...I know he's a pain, but that's all. > > It's a bit of a wide sweep to claim that no records are recorded before a certain date. Actually the CHurch of IReland records begin much earlier. However not all parishes survive due to the Four Courts Fire. Many Irish and Presbyterians were baptized in the Church of Ireland. In the first course you take in Irish genealogy they tell you ALWAYS check those records. How? Well, you just did at the site above. Try IGI. Also using Ryan "Irish Records", identify the status of parish records surrounding where your ancestor lived. It'll tell you if they were locally held or microfilmed at the date of publication of the book. > > > Happy hunting, > > Linda Merle

Hi Pat, no, I can't, dear. Every post to this list and all the others at rootsweb go to the archives where they are preserved forever. These are both searchable and browsible. I would, for starters, browse November 2011 and look for an email with Armstrong in the heading. I would then search for Armstrong. That'll turn up all instances of Armstrong on the list and should keep you too busy to get into trouble for some time <grin>. Searching through lists like this is a fundamental of research in the Internet age. You could purchase a book on how to do genealogy on the Internet and it would explain it better than I can -- but my email is cheaper <grin>! Unless you can find a pirated copy of the Internet genealogy book on the Internet, in which case let us know. You can also go to the main Rootsweb page and search for your surname across ALL the lists. But you might never get to the Thanksgiving turkey. You can view all the lists there. I am sure there is an Armstrong one. If not, google for Armstrong genealogy. Another good place to search is www.usgenweb.org .Navigate to your state and county and search the archives. Oh, the page for this list? http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/NIR/Scotch-Irish.html Then your only problem is how you cite a posting from an email list, assuming this is a footnote perhaps. So just visit the URL above and select browse list and then 2011 and Nov (If I recall right)....then look for Armstrong. Happy Hunting! Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Kinzie" <pat.kinzie@gmail.com> To: scotch-Irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:36:21 PM Subject: [S-I] Plantation of Ulster Hi Linda, Could you tell me what page the information about the Armstrong's is on? I want to cite it for my Armstrongs. Thanks, Pat California ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Any Kirk's Thanks

Hi Pat, Saw your email to the list asking about the Armstrong family line. That is one of my lines that I research. If you can give me some names and dates and where in the US they were located I may can be of help. Would enjoy sharing information if it will help. Write me back at this email address. agape2u@rhelectric.net Sarah Sarah

Hi Linda I think we need a closer look at the events of 1641-42. Besieging Derry (yes, besieging Derry!) were many of the Laggan army (from Inishowen and the Derry vicinity), under Col. Robert Stewart (see e.g. Symington's Survey of 1654). Isn't that why our Scottish Covenanter surnames are not featuring so prominently in the early lookups? I recall reading that Cromwell and his lads killed more Presbyterian Scots in the north-west of Ireland than they did "native" Irish (Catholics and Confederates) - showing these bloody times were more about power struggles and politics than the "irreconcilable" religious differences as so often cited. (Out walking dogs, so can't refer to a suitable source right now.) Dave Mitchell Cape Town South Africa -----Original Message----- From: lmerle@comcast.net Sender: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:38:45 To: List<scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Reply-To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: [S-I] "Defenders of the Plantation of Ulster: 1641-91 Hi folks, many seem confused as to what this book contains. It contains two lists: 1 --Muster Roll Derry A muster roll of Derry is unlikely to contain people who lived elsewhere and were probably busy defending their homes where they lived. A muster roll of Derry contains men who were mustered locally to defend their home: Derry. Who were they defending it from? The Irish! Those people with the O's in their names. What kind of plantation was Derry? English! So your Scots are not likely to be there either. The dates for this were 1641/2 . P. vi says "These men would have been drawn from estates throughout County Londonderry and neighboring counties...." The more you understand the history of the time and place, the more you will get out of it. Take Tristram Beresford, a landlord from Coleraine and Derry. Why wasn't he out defending his estate? Much was lost in the initial attack. I believe all the settlers in Agadowey were either killed or fled. I did some research at the FHL several years ago on this area. The city of Coleraine was full of refugees who were later evacuated in great desperation as they starved to death. Beresford was off defending Defending, probably the men in his company were largely his tenants. If you study his estate you'll know where those men lived. Though if my mind doesn't fail me, all the settler names were replaced by 1650. This doesn't mean they all died. It just means they didn't want to return there. Henry Osborne was a titulado (1659 census) living in the parish of Templemore (City of Derry) Henry Finch also lived there His son lived on estates at Faughanvale at Longfield Beg and Tullybrisland John Kilner was living in Mull (later renamed Eglinton) in the parish of Faughanvale 2. Defenders of Ireland Is an index to a book, not a muster roll. It documents all those who were named in contemporary sources and accounts as playing an active or supportive role in the Williamite campaign from 1689 to 1691. (p. vii). So it is much broader. So here you will find Scots names. Other warnings: in the muster rolls of 1641/2 spelling is very irregular. I am doing lookups fast. If you are a serious family historian, you will inspect these muster rolls at some point yourself, spending a lot more time perusing them. Linda Merle ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Joan, Nada. Atwell is not in MacLysaght, meaning he missed it or they came rather late and in small numbers. Doak is Scottish, which is why they were not at Derry. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "j h" <sm-jh@hotmail.com> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 7:46:04 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] "Defenders of the Plantation of Ulster 1641-1691" Atwell, Doak Hi, Linda, Lovely thing you're doing. I hope you're not overwhelmed. Could you please look up the surnames Atwell and Doak?Thanks,Joan > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:15:56 +0000 > From: lmerle@comcast.net > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Subject: [S-I] "Defenders of the Plantation of Ulster 1641-1691" > > Hi folks, > > I have sprung for this book, compiled by Brian Mitchell. It contains two lists of names (with some details) from two sources. These are the muster roll of Garrison in the City of Londonderry from 1642-43. This resides in PRONI as T808/15176, from the National Archives in London, State Papers, Domestic, Commonwealth Exchequer Papers, bundles 120 and 121). The second is from "The Fighters of Derry Their Deeds and Descendants..." by William Young, published in 1932. It covers the period 1688-1691. It also names those of the Enniskillen campaign as well as the harrying of Jacobite forces in Connaught and Ulster by locally raised regiments out of Enniskillen, Battle of the Boyne, Battle of Aughrim, and the final Irish surrender 23 Sept. 1691. It includes the list of 921 people declared traitors by James' II's parliament in Dublin in 1689. ends. > Linda Merle > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Kerry, Muster Roll Derry Francis Graham Tristram Beresford's Foot Peter Greyme Robert Thornton's FOot William Grymes Sir John Vaughan's Foot Richard Grymes ditto Daniell Grymes ditto Defenders of Ireland Alderman James Graham Derry James Graham Ballashule, Donegal or Derry James Graham, Jr. ditto Capt. Graham Major Graham died due to struck by cannon ball at Shipquay Gate 5 June John Graham Derry Family expelled from Scottish borders in 17th century, A man with this name was Sheriff of Donegal in 1662. Graham Lietrim Lieut. John Graham Classlough, Monaghan Francis Graham Enniskillen James Graham ditto No Grimes or Graeme Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "KERRY BRANDOFF" <kerry1947@msn.com> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 5:04:24 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] "Defenders of the Plantation of Ulster 1641-1691"look up for GRAHAM, GRAEME, GRIMES Linda, What a generous offer!! Please look up the Graham, Graeme, Grimes crowd for me! MANY thanks! Kerry ----- Original Message ----- From: lmerle@comcast.net<mailto:lmerle@comcast.net> To: List<mailto:scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 8:15 AM Subject: [S-I] "Defenders of the Plantation of Ulster 1641-1691" Hi folks, I have sprung for this book, compiled by Brian Mitchell. It contains two lists of names (with some details) from two sources. These are the muster roll of Garrison in the City of Londonderry from 1642-43. This resides in PRONI as T808/15176, from the National Archives in London, State Papers, Domestic, Commonwealth Exchequer Papers, bundles 120 and 121). The second is from "The Fighters of Derry Their Deeds and Descendants..." by William Young, published in 1932. It covers the period 1688-1691. It also names those of the Enniskillen campaign as well as the harrying of Jacobite forces in Connaught and Ulster by locally raised regiments out of Enniskillen, Battle of the Boyne, Battle of Aughrim, and the final Irish surrender 23 Sept. 1691. It includes the list of 921 people declared traitors by James' II's parliament in Dublin in 1689. I am willing to do very quick lookups over the next few weeks but only a few a day. I am also only willing to look up a name ONCE. So if your name has been done and I remember, you'll need to check the archives. Thus you'll learn how to do this and I'll feel less like I'm in some kind of endless lookup hell <grin>. When this happens I get grouchy and quit. Anyone else with a decent resource who feels inclined to make a look up offer -- we love this. The archives are full of the results. If you haven't checked the archives for lookups of your surname, wow, are you messing up <grin>. By 'decent' I mean please don't share your coffee table books or the stuff that sometimes get published for what reason I donno...I think to recruit cannon fodder for the armies (chest swelling, sources stuff about brave Scotch Irish soldiers, settlers, etc.). Primarily we want stuff that'll help us find our ancestors. Not books that are dead ends. I'll also post some info in the front of the book on the time period. Many of those mentioned left for America within a generation. You can generally tell if your ancestor was a defender of Derry because he was excluded from paying taxes for his life. You will find farms in New England that are excluded from paying taxes. I believe this ended with the Revolution. Anyone know? PS: if you are reading this later than December 2011, I have probably refiled the book on my self, where it is lost. So check the archives. Linda Merle ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Names, I screwed up....Kingsmill is in Defenders (late 1600s) John Kingsmill in Donegal. I guess he got tired of the jokes about the King' smell. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: bgrd848@cs.com To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 6:04:10 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] "Defenders of the Plantation of Ulster 1641-1691" - McCaw, Harness Are Sir John McCall and his sons of Belfast listed? I have Lamock McColl and Allyn McCall listed in Muster Roll of Donegal in 1630 AD serving under Sir John Kingsmell (undertaker of 2270 acres) -----Original Message----- From: lmerle <lmerle@comcast.net> To: scotch-irish <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:28 am Subject: Re: [S-I] "Defenders of the Plantation of Ulster 1641-1691" - McCaw, Harness Hi Jan, They're not there so apparently they were some where else or not of the right ges. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- rom: "Jan Fennell" <jsfennell@shaw.ca> o: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com ent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 5:05:47 PM ubject: [S-I] "Defenders of the Plantation of Ulster 1641-1691" - McCaw, illon, McCurdy, Anderson, Cargill Linda, You are so generous. Please know that we are so thankful for all that you do. Please lookup Harkness, which may well have been Harkneys at that period in ime. anice née Harkness Sent from my iPad On Nov 6, 2011, at 3:18 AM, SUSAN BR <susanbrown7777@sympatico.ca> wrote: > Linda could I please have McCaw, Dillon, McCurdy, Anderson, Cargill lookups lease? Thank you so much, Susan > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:15:56 +0000 > From: lmerle@comcast.net > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Subject: [S-I] "Defenders of the Plantation of Ulster 1641-1691" > > Hi folks, > > I have sprung for this book, compiled by Brian Mitchell. It contains two ists of names (with some details) from two sources. These are the muster roll f Garrison in the City of Londonderry from 1642-43. This resides in PRONI as 808/15176, from the National Archives in London, State Papers, Domestic, ommonwealth Exchequer Papers, bundles 120 and 121). The second is from "The ighters of Derry Their Deeds and Descendants..." by William Young, published in 932. It covers the period 1688-1691. It also names those of the Enniskillen ampaign as well as the harrying of Jacobite forces in Connaught and Ulster by ocally raised regiments out of Enniskillen, Battle of the Boyne, Battle of ughrim, and the final Irish surrender 23 Sept. 1691. It includes the list of 21 people declared traitors by James' II's parliament in Dublin in 1689. > > I am willing to do very quick lookups over the next few weeks but only a few day. I am also only willing to look up a name ONCE. So if your name has been one and I remember, you'll need to check the archives. Thus you'll learn how to o this and I'll feel less like I'm in some kind of endless lookup hell <grin>. hen this happens I get grouchy and quit. > > Anyone else with a decent resource who feels inclined to make a look up offer - we love this. The archives are full of the results. If you haven't checked he archives for lookups of your surname, wow, are you messing up <grin>. By decent' I mean please don't share your coffee table books or the stuff that ometimes get published for what reason I donno...I think to recruit cannon odder for the armies (chest swelling, sources stuff about brave Scotch Irish oldiers, settlers, etc.). Primarily we want stuff that'll help us find our ncestors. Not books that are dead ends. > > I'll also post some info in the front of the book on the time period. > > Many of those mentioned left for America within a generation. You can enerally tell if your ancestor was a defender of Derry because he was excluded rom paying taxes for his life. You will find farms in New England that are xcluded from paying taxes. I believe this ended with the Revolution. Anyone now? > > PS: if you are reading this later than December 2011, I have probably refiled he book on my self, where it is lost. So check the archives. > > Linda Merle > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Marilyn, McKay and Armstrong are done. Check archives.....amazed! You aren't reading every single one of these <grin>!!! Nada for the other two. Mulligan of course is Irish, a Donegal sept, though now found in Mayo and Monaghan. Because as MacLysaght says "much reduced at the time of the Plantation". I think by that he means "mostly killed. " Field? Was his first name "Green"???? Sorry, bad joke. The Irish didn't tend to take locative surnames but it is possible his Irish name sounded like something...Or he was English. McLysaght says... bingo! (Oops that was me).... could be Fehilly or Maghery. Fehilly is a Connacht sept. An Mhachaire 'of the field' is one of the few 'cognomina' taken from a place of residence. It is found in Co Limerick in the 1300s, but ... it takes the form Field in Armagh. Maybe you need a DNA test <grin>. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn Otterson" <rosiedoggie@myfairpoint.net> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 8:47:45 PM Subject: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field Hi, I just dropped into the list today as I have been involved in a couple of other projects and have let genealogy slide. Now I see McKoy and McKay and now I am interested. I never pass up a chance to ask this group questions and now I am wondering a bit what is going on. Anyway....Armstrong, McCoy (or sometimes McKay), Milligan and Field from Co. Tyrone. If anybody sees those names, I'd love to know about it. Thanks, Marilyn ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Carla, Muster Roll Derry Gregory Chapman Sir Thomas Staple's Foot Cormack Chaptman Robert Thornton's Foot Daniell Makaye Drummer Thomas Newburgh's Foot Defenders of Ireland Nada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carla DeVille" <carla_deville@yahoo.com> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 8:09:40 PM Subject: [S-I] lookups Please lookup Chapman and McKoy or McKay. thanks Carla DeVille Diggin up bones in my sleep! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi folks, many seem confused as to what this book contains. It contains two lists: 1 --Muster Roll Derry A muster roll of Derry is unlikely to contain people who lived elsewhere and were probably busy defending their homes where they lived. A muster roll of Derry contains men who were mustered locally to defend their home: Derry. Who were they defending it from? The Irish! Those people with the O's in their names. What kind of plantation was Derry? English! So your Scots are not likely to be there either. The dates for this were 1641/2 . P. vi says "These men would have been drawn from estates throughout County Londonderry and neighboring counties...." The more you understand the history of the time and place, the more you will get out of it. Take Tristram Beresford, a landlord from Coleraine and Derry. Why wasn't he out defending his estate? Much was lost in the initial attack. I believe all the settlers in Agadowey were either killed or fled. I did some research at the FHL several years ago on this area. The city of Coleraine was full of refugees who were later evacuated in great desperation as they starved to death. Beresford was off defending Defending, probably the men in his company were largely his tenants. If you study his estate you'll know where those men lived. Though if my mind doesn't fail me, all the settler names were replaced by 1650. This doesn't mean they all died. It just means they didn't want to return there. Henry Osborne was a titulado (1659 census) living in the parish of Templemore (City of Derry) Henry Finch also lived there His son lived on estates at Faughanvale at Longfield Beg and Tullybrisland John Kilner was living in Mull (later renamed Eglinton) in the parish of Faughanvale 2. Defenders of Ireland Is an index to a book, not a muster roll. It documents all those who were named in contemporary sources and accounts as playing an active or supportive role in the Williamite campaign from 1689 to 1691. (p. vii). So it is much broader. So here you will find Scots names. Other warnings: in the muster rolls of 1641/2 spelling is very irregular. I am doing lookups fast. If you are a serious family historian, you will inspect these muster rolls at some point yourself, spending a lot more time perusing them. Linda Merle