Hi folks, the DNA lists are all abuzz as the various firms announce holiday sales. Family Tree DNA is useful for Y chromosome (male Line) testing. You join (free) a surname project, which gives you an administrator who may be knowledgable. (If not, dump that project and find another). By joining the Ulster DNA project your results will show up in this huge project, sorted next to matches and near matches. http://www.familytreedna.com/products.aspx for pricing. It also does mother line (mitochondrial) testing and autosomal, when some of the DNA in all your chromosomes is tested. then you use software to look for cousins with whom you share strands of matching DNA. Very new. 23andme is another firm. It started out doing medical testing. It allows you to see what kind of genes you may have and if you stay active you will continuously get new results, well, until the chip is obsolete that was used to test you. I need to upgrade to the newer chip. Among other things I may learn if I have an Alzheimers gene. They do not yet test comprehensively for this. Apparently many genes could be involved. However .... I'm afraid!!!!! <grin>. They also will give you your Y chromosome (if you have one) and your mitochondrial. They also have autosomal results and probably the world's largest customer base of people trying to find cousins this way. https://www.23andme.com/ . If you want you can also participate in various studies (meaning you answer questions) to further our research. Kind of like being a lab rat, but better educated and probably less fur.... There are other firms too. Can anyone supply us with a few? It pays to google...... I found this site offering free testing to BROWNs of Scots descent: http://www.brownsociety.org/FreeScotsTests.htm Think you are Scots? EthnoAncestry has a test to prove it. This is a bit controversial. http://www.ethnoancestry.com/ http://www.scotlandsfamily.com/dna-testing.htm explains what they're looking for. There is also an Irish hedge school for learning Irish DNA: http://web.mac.com/irishpat/IrishRootsCafe/Irish_DNA.html It has a Youtube video explaining how easy it is. I also found a website with information on the Workhouse. It includes a cookbook of prison recipes. Doesn't sound terribly appealing..... http://www.workhouses.org.uk/ Linda Merle

Linda.... God Bless your little one ..... and to you also for being a 'Great Mom' .... my 2 Kat Kids are like real kids to me .... and I would do anything for them also !!! Mill Ryan -----Original Message----- From: lmerle <lmerle@comcast.net> To: List <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, Nov 16, 2011 10:47 pm Subject: [S-I] Sorry no lookups today Hi folks, Hopefully tomorrow. Today my one cat was hit by a car and I spent the day driving him from the local vet to large regional vet center and writing checks. However he will survive. Lost his tail, had a part of his femur in his hip socket replaced, badly dislocated jaw fixed itself. My daughter had to get a second job to pay for her pound dog's chemo last year. Exhaustedly, Linda Merle ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That's sad Linda. Sending hugs across the water!!! Donna Sent from my iPhone On 17 Nov 2011, at 03:45, lmerle@comcast.net wrote: > Hi folks, Hopefully tomorrow. Today my one cat was hit by a car and I spent the day driving him from the local vet to large regional vet center and writing checks. However he will survive. Lost his tail, had a part of his femur in his hip socket replaced, badly dislocated jaw fixed itself. My daughter had to get a second job to pay for her pound dog's chemo last year. > > Exhaustedly, > > Linda Merle > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Linda, We just lost our dog. Please hug your cat for us! Nancy Nancy Kipp nkipp@san.rr.com

Hi folks, Hopefully tomorrow. Today my one cat was hit by a car and I spent the day driving him from the local vet to large regional vet center and writing checks. However he will survive. Lost his tail, had a part of his femur in his hip socket replaced, badly dislocated jaw fixed itself. My daughter had to get a second job to pay for her pound dog's chemo last year. Exhaustedly, Linda Merle

Sad to hear about your cat Linda. Our pets are nearly like our children, and yours today took quite a beating. Speedy recovery.......... Diane

Oh linda, I feel so for you, don,t think about s-I, hug your cat(s) and take some time for yourself. Hugs, Bonnie Sent from my iPad On Nov 16, 2011, at 9:45 PM, lmerle@comcast.net wrote: > Hi folks, Hopefully tomorrow. Today my one cat was hit by a car and I spent the day driving him from the local vet to large regional vet center and writing checks. However he will survive. Lost his tail, had a part of his femur in his hip socket replaced, badly dislocated jaw fixed itself. My daughter had to get a second job to pay for her pound dog's chemo last year. > > Exhaustedly, > > Linda Merle > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for the great suggestions. Jane In a message dated 11/15/2011 12:40:55 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com writes: Today's Topics: 1. Re: Lord Appleby (lmerle@comcast.net) 2. Re: Subject: Lord Appleby....Baron Clifford of Appleby?? (D H) 3. Re: McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field (D H) 4. Re: McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field (lmerle@comcast.net) 5. Re: McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field (D H) 6. Re: McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field (Marilyn Otterson) 7. For Linda, (Sarah) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:28:37 +0000 (UTC) From: lmerle@comcast.net Subject: Re: [S-I] Lord Appleby To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <86128331.2523116.1321309717634.JavaMail.root@sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail.co mcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Jane, have you checked The Peerage? http://www.thepeerage.com/i97.htm#s1114 There are Applebys there. I don't find Appleby in a PRONI search. He could have been a relative of an actual lord, so with a lot of study of the peerage you may find a Scots or English peer with relatives named Appleby. You can also check it in various sources like O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees (three volumes) that are free at google books. Good luck! Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: JsMuns@aol.com To: SCOTCH-IRISH@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 1:41:08 PM Subject: [S-I] Lord Appleby Does anyone know how to search Irish "Lords". My family's oral history states that we are descendants of Lord Appleby of Ireland. The story goes that his daughter Margaret married John McMullen and so was disinherited by her father, so they emigrated to American (this would probably be in the mid 1700s) Jane Munson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:33:38 +0000 From: D H <hallmark1@utvinternet.com> Subject: Re: [S-I] Subject: Lord Appleby....Baron Clifford of Appleby?? To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4EC19742.2090707@utvinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Edward Southwell (Baron Clifford of Appleby) held the office of Principal Secretary of State for Ireland. He was a descendant of Robert De Clifford first Lord of Appleby. Edward Southwell married Hon. Catherine Watson, daughter of Edward Watson, Viscount Sondes and Lady Katherine Tufton, on 21 August 1729. Died 16 March 1755. Edward Southwell, 20th Lord Clifford.... b. 6 June 1732, d. 1 November 1777. Baptised 17 June 1738 at St. Martin-in-the-Fields Church, Covent Garden, London, England. He married Sophia Campbell, daughter of Samuel Campbell, on 29 August 1765 at St. George's Church, St. George Street, Hanover Square, London, England. Died on 1 November 1777 at age 45 at Auveny, Nice, France. Buried 24 November 1777 at Henbury, Gloucestershire, England. Will probated on 12 February 1778. Children of Edward Southwell, 20th Lord Clifford and Sophia Campbell * Hon. Catherine Southwell d. 19 Jul 1801 * Hon. Henrietta Southwell * **Edward Southwell, 21st Lord de Clifford b. 20 Jun 1767, d. 30 Sep 1832 * Hon. Sophia Southwell b. 10 Jun 1771, d. 9 Nov 1795 * Hon. Elizabeth Southwell b. 11 Jan 1776, d. 14 Nov 1817 ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________ **Edward Southwell, 21st Lord de Clifford of Appleby b. 20 Jun 1767, d. 30 Sep 1832 Married Lady Mary Elizabeth Bourke, daughter of Most Rev. Joseph Deane Bourke, 3rd Earl of Mayo and Elizabeth Meade, on 19 February 1789 at St. Anne's Church, Dublin, County Dublin, Ireland. He died on 30 September 1832 at age 65 at Brighton, Sussex, England, without issue. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:10:44 +0000 From: D H <hallmark1@utvinternet.com> Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4EC19FF4.6000706@utvinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Goodness me... What do you cook for supper?? :-)) D H. P.S. Have you looked at the name DeLaFeld/DeLaField for your Fields?? I looked up the origin of the name in Ireland and that is who they seem to stem from! _______________________________________________________ there comes a time when my husband is wondering what's for supper and I have to put those ancestors away for another day...or week...or month. Regards, Marilyn ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:17:37 +0000 (UTC) From: lmerle@comcast.net Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <648688351.2525796.1321312657212.JavaMail.root@sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail.c omcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Me? three pretzels and a cuppa tea. Seriously...... <grin>. I'm on a diet. You know we don't have, as far as I know, a Scotch Irish food blog. Maybe someone should start one. Or are there some good Northern Irish food blogs out there with tatie recipes and how to make a real Ulster breakfast? Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "D H" <hallmark1@utvinternet.com> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 6:10:44 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field Goodness me... What do you cook for supper?? :-)) D H. P.S. Have you looked at the name DeLaFeld/DeLaField for your Fields?? I looked up the origin of the name in Ireland and that is who they seem to stem from! _______________________________________________________ there comes a time when my husband is wondering what's for supper and I have to put those ancestors away for another day...or week...or month. Regards, Marilyn ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:43:46 +0000 From: D H <hallmark1@utvinternet.com> Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4EC1A7B2.1060609@utvinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Linda, it was Marilyn's hubby's supper I was wondering about... ;-)). Hope he doesn't have to wait for a month!! DH ___________________ 'there comes a time when my husband is wondering what's for supper and I have to put those ancestors away for another day...or week...or month.' Regards, Marilyn ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 21:49:48 -0500 From: "Marilyn Otterson" <rosiedoggie@myfairpoint.net> Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <C49DC202B29542ADAD731ADEFAA9F0FD@MRODELL> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi, D H, No, I haven't thought of looking there, but thanks for the idea.... Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "D H" <hallmark1@utvinternet.com> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field > Goodness me... What do you cook for supper?? :-)) > > D H. > > > P.S. Have you looked at the name DeLaFeld/DeLaField for your Fields?? I > looked up the origin of the name in Ireland and that is who they seem to > stem > from! > _______________________________________________________ > > > > there comes a time when my husband is wondering what's for supper and I > have to put those ancestors away for another day...or week...or month. > > Regards, > Marilyn > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:05:28 -0600 From: "Sarah" <agape2u@rhelectric.net> Subject: [S-I] For Linda, To: "Scotch-Irish" <scotch-Irish@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <1308D75DFA364D9098AC20C1B1ABB492@SarahPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes Linda I found your answer. Many thanks...........will look them all over and hope they will help. Key and Armstrong Thanks again, Sarah ------------------------------ To contact the SCOTCH-IRISH list administrator, send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the SCOTCH-IRISH mailing list, send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 6, Issue 267 ********************************************

No problem, did you make anything of my post on Field Swan and Swan Field? DH On 15/11/2011 08:00, scotch-irish-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field > To:<scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID:<C49DC202B29542ADAD731ADEFAA9F0FD@MRODELL> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi, D H, > No, I haven't thought of looking there, but thanks for the idea.... > > Marilyn

Hi Linda, it was Marilyn's hubby's supper I was wondering about... ;-)). Hope he doesn't have to wait for a month!! DH ___________________ 'there comes a time when my husband is wondering what's for supper and I have to put those ancestors away for another day...or week...or month.' Regards, Marilyn

Me? three pretzels and a cuppa tea. Seriously...... <grin>. I'm on a diet. You know we don't have, as far as I know, a Scotch Irish food blog. Maybe someone should start one. Or are there some good Northern Irish food blogs out there with tatie recipes and how to make a real Ulster breakfast? Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "D H" <hallmark1@utvinternet.com> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 6:10:44 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field Goodness me... What do you cook for supper?? :-)) D H. P.S. Have you looked at the name DeLaFeld/DeLaField for your Fields?? I looked up the origin of the name in Ireland and that is who they seem to stem from! _______________________________________________________ there comes a time when my husband is wondering what's for supper and I have to put those ancestors away for another day...or week...or month. Regards, Marilyn ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Goodness me... What do you cook for supper?? :-)) D H. P.S. Have you looked at the name DeLaFeld/DeLaField for your Fields?? I looked up the origin of the name in Ireland and that is who they seem to stem from! _______________________________________________________ there comes a time when my husband is wondering what's for supper and I have to put those ancestors away for another day...or week...or month. Regards, Marilyn

Yes Linda I found your answer. Many thanks...........will look them all over and hope they will help. Key and Armstrong Thanks again, Sarah

Edward Southwell (Baron Clifford of Appleby) held the office of Principal Secretary of State for Ireland. He was a descendant of Robert De Clifford first Lord of Appleby. Edward Southwell married Hon. Catherine Watson, daughter of Edward Watson, Viscount Sondes and Lady Katherine Tufton, on 21 August 1729. Died 16 March 1755. Edward Southwell, 20th Lord Clifford.... b. 6 June 1732, d. 1 November 1777. Baptised 17 June 1738 at St. Martin-in-the-Fields Church, Covent Garden, London, England. He married Sophia Campbell, daughter of Samuel Campbell, on 29 August 1765 at St. George's Church, St. George Street, Hanover Square, London, England. Died on 1 November 1777 at age 45 at Auveny, Nice, France. Buried 24 November 1777 at Henbury, Gloucestershire, England. Will probated on 12 February 1778. Children of Edward Southwell, 20th Lord Clifford and Sophia Campbell * Hon. Catherine Southwell d. 19 Jul 1801 * Hon. Henrietta Southwell * **Edward Southwell, 21st Lord de Clifford b. 20 Jun 1767, d. 30 Sep 1832 * Hon. Sophia Southwell b. 10 Jun 1771, d. 9 Nov 1795 * Hon. Elizabeth Southwell b. 11 Jan 1776, d. 14 Nov 1817 ________________________________________________________________________________________ **Edward Southwell, 21st Lord de Clifford of Appleby b. 20 Jun 1767, d. 30 Sep 1832 Married Lady Mary Elizabeth Bourke, daughter of Most Rev. Joseph Deane Bourke, 3rd Earl of Mayo and Elizabeth Meade, on 19 February 1789 at St. Anne's Church, Dublin, County Dublin, Ireland. He died on 30 September 1832 at age 65 at Brighton, Sussex, England, without issue.

Hi Jane, have you checked The Peerage? http://www.thepeerage.com/i97.htm#s1114 There are Applebys there. I don't find Appleby in a PRONI search. He could have been a relative of an actual lord, so with a lot of study of the peerage you may find a Scots or English peer with relatives named Appleby. You can also check it in various sources like O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees (three volumes) that are free at google books. Good luck! Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: JsMuns@aol.com To: SCOTCH-IRISH@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 1:41:08 PM Subject: [S-I] Lord Appleby Does anyone know how to search Irish "Lords". My family's oral history states that we are descendants of Lord Appleby of Ireland. The story goes that his daughter Margaret married John McMullen and so was disinherited by her father, so they emigrated to American (this would probably be in the mid 1700s) Jane Munson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, D H, No, I haven't thought of looking there, but thanks for the idea.... Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "D H" <hallmark1@utvinternet.com> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field > Goodness me... What do you cook for supper?? :-)) > > D H. > > > P.S. Have you looked at the name DeLaFeld/DeLaField for your Fields?? I > looked up the origin of the name in Ireland and that is who they seem to > stem > from! > _______________________________________________________ > > > > there comes a time when my husband is wondering what's for supper and I > have to put those ancestors away for another day...or week...or month. > > Regards, > Marilyn > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Reply. Try doing what I did which was to Google it, and you will find a page at genuki. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/History/Barons/barons1.html There is no Lord Appleby of the Irish Peerage. However for the benefit of those who know nothing about the British Peerage one or two points. First of all they are not a S-I topic. Generally as I never tire of reminding you we are the spearman and the chorus. The number of members of the peerage who are us are very limited. Secondly they can seem complicated and I suggest that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peerage gives an idea of how it works. Finally there is no body of people who have had as much genealogical research carried out on them. One you master the tools they are dead easy to work with I'm sorry that the early 18th Century Margaret Clifford, daughter of Lord Appleby married to Thomas Coke earl of Leicester, who was admitted 13 August 1734 to the titles of baroness Clifford, Westmorland and Veici. Upon her death 28 February 1775, the honours descended to the family of Southwel. So it seems as if your story is not confirmed. However very often these stories have a kernel of truth, the only thing is to get at it. I can't find any Appleby or Southwel in my 1975 copy of Burk's Peerage. You might get something in Burke's Extinct and dormant titles, http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=48498 An Irish Lord is the same as any British lord provided the title survived. Where it is difficult are the extinct titles especially the ones who lost them by attainder and the like. Edward > -----Original Message----- > From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of JsMuns@aol.com > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 6:41 PM > To: SCOTCH-IRISH@rootsweb.com > Subject: [S-I] Lord Appleby > > Does anyone know how to search Irish "Lords". My family's > oral history states that we are descendants of Lord Appleby > of Ireland. The story goes that his daughter Margaret > married John McMullen and so was disinherited by her father, > so they emigrated to American (this would probably be in the mid > 1700s) > Jane Munson > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John, thanks so much for looking and trying to find information about the Milligan surname. As it seems a lot of those from the counties in what is now Northern Ireland probably early on came across from Scotland (or were taken across), I guess trying to label what a surname is or from where it came as definitely Scottish or Irish is really difficult. I am happy to think my folks were Scotch-Irish and I am proud of them wherever they came from. It's interesting to try to learn as much about them as I can before they came to the USA, but there comes a time when my husband is wondering what's for supper and I have to put those ancestors away for another day...or week...or month. Regards, Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Carey" <johnca@quickclic.net> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field > Marilyn and Linda > > I imagine that the MacLysaght book that Linda is using is The Surnames of > Ireland. It was first published in 1985. As she said, Milligan is not > listed there. Another of his books is Irish Families Their Names , Arms > and > Origins that was first published in 1957. Milligan is not one of the > names > dealt with in the main parts of this book as well. However, among the > Appendices to this book there is one listing other Irish surnames rarely > found outside particular counties or baronies. Milligan is listed there > in > connection with Antrim and South Derry but he doesn't say the source of > this > information. Unfortunately, that's one of the frustrations with > MacLysaght. > > > John Carey > > > -----Original Message----- > From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lmerle@comcast.net > Sent: November-14-11 10:19 AM > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field > > Hi Marilyn, > > I do find Milligan in Black "Surnames of Scotland". This is one I'll have > to > blame on the Irish! (Joke). Ie MacLysaght doesn't mention it. > > Usually Black is considered 'definitive' for Scottish surnames. MacLysaght > is rarely accorded that same high esteem among the Irish, as I have > learned > on various lists. He has to compete with several earlier documenters of > Irish surnames, some quite early. The same lists discuss who is the truest > but of course it varies with the poster and I also think who you are > trying > to research. No doubt McL and his associates are great for those > researching > the Irish, but unfortunately, especially for those of us researching in > Ulster, that may not be the case. > > Besides these two books I have an "English" surname that also has a lot of > Scots, Welsh, and Irish names, which is why I said "English" and not > English > <grin>. However I don't have the time to look up all this. > > Often Bell "Book of Ulster Surnames" will give you a summary of what McL, > Black, and Reaney and Wilson (my English surname book) say. Bell does say > Milligan could be either Scots or Irish. > > This illustrates one of my main points: always look up the surname. I > should > add, in the right book <grin>! And I should take my own advice and follow > it > compulsively to avoid screwing up. > > Did you find the McCoy, etc? or where to check? Browse from > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/NIR/Scotch-Irish.html > > down to Nov. 2011. > > If I am hallucinating and didn't do them, let us know. > > Linda Merle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marilyn Otterson" <rosiedoggie@myfairpoint.net> > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:47:37 PM > Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field > > Hi, Linda.....hey, I got a DNA test, even found an Armstrong cousin in Co. > Tyrone although he wasn't interested in swapping ancestor stories. His > ancestors are from the same tiny townland...it's only a 25 match, but with > the location and all, it seems pretty positive. His cousin sent me photos > of > the old (wrecked now) farmstead. > > Milligan is also a Scottish name...they say that she always swore she was > Scottish, but then everybody did that. We don't know where Milligan and > Field came from for sure, but assume Milligan was Fermanagh as that is > pretty close to where my Armstrongs lived in Tyrone. We finally found the > Milligan graves in a Boston area cemetery. Of course they were hard to > find...one stone was only "Mother" and the other was "Father." It took a > Milligan researcher to find the stones among some of the offspring, but we > still can't find where they came from. You might remember that I asked > about > those folks before....they went back to Ireland and then back to the USA > through Liverpool to Quebec to Boston. We could never find ships' > records in Boston because they didn't come in that way. > > Sorry I missed the McCoy and Armstrong stuff...Termonmagurk area of Co. > Tyrone. You mean the list archives? I am surprised I missed that although > this has been a beastly year and I had to let the genealogy stuff mostly > slide. Hoping to get back to it. > > Cheers, > Marilyn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <lmerle@comcast.net> > To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 10:52 AM > Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field > > >> Hi Marilyn, McKay and Armstrong are done. Check archives.....amazed! >> You aren't reading every single one of these <grin>!!! >> >> Nada for the other two. Mulligan of course is Irish, a Donegal sept, >> though now found in Mayo and Monaghan. Because as MacLysaght says >> "much reduced at the time of the Plantation". I think by that he means >> "mostly killed. " Field? Was his first name "Green"???? Sorry, bad >> joke. The Irish didn't tend to take locative surnames but it is >> possible his Irish name sounded like something...Or he was English. >> McLysaght says... bingo! (Oops that was me).... could be Fehilly or > Maghery. Fehilly is a Connacht sept. >> An Mhachaire 'of the field' is one of the few 'cognomina' taken from a >> place of residence. It is found in Co Limerick in the 1300s, but ... >> it takes the form Field in Armagh. >> >> Maybe you need a DNA test <grin>. >> >> Linda Merle >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marilyn Otterson" <rosiedoggie@myfairpoint.net> >> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 8:47:45 PM >> Subject: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field >> >> Hi, >> I just dropped into the list today as I have been involved in a couple >> of other projects and have let genealogy slide. >> >> Now I see McKoy and McKay and now I am interested. I never pass up a >> chance to ask this group questions and now I am wondering a bit what >> is going on. >> Anyway....Armstrong, McCoy (or sometimes McKay), Milligan and Field >> from Co. >> Tyrone. If anybody sees those names, I'd love to know about it. >> >> Thanks, >> Marilyn >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi John, actually Milligan is in MacLysaght, "Surnames of Ireland". He just indicates that it is Irish. I do not use "Families Their Names , Arms and Origins " because it is not as useful -- smaller, fewer names. With small budget I asked an expert (an ex librarian) and bought what she recommended. So far I've think she's been right on. In the case of using either book, one must be cautious. When I asked about definitive surname books for Ireland the response was that there is no single source that is all round the best and viewed as such by the experts. Apparently the older sources, who are largely MacLysaght's, tend to lack evidence of the type that impresses modern day experts. These days with DNA much of what the old texts say can be supported with DNA evidence or maybe not. We're still gathering the data. Black "Surnames of Scotland" has been criticized because of his methodology. He used written records for his sources, largely, while also sometimes noting other sources. This means he covers the lowlanders well, but the highland culture was an oral culture. It may well be under represented. Probably a few weeks doing lookups on a highland list would allow one to informally decide what his/her own opinion is. I have never worked enough with highland surnames to know -- and I have no plans of doing it. Of course its possible such a person would be wrong because the more careful study by experts might result in a different conclusion. So no matter what conclusion one came to or what one said there might be lots of others who would disagree and may attack you for it, were you a worthy or unworthy target of their scorn. "A Dictionary of English Surnames" by Reaney and Wilson also is based on written sources. This is useful because, like with Black, those are identified, and assuming you can figure out how to find pipe rolls <grin>, you can use the book as a source to actual records. It doesn't tend to have much that is useful for very common names, especially occupational, like my English surnames are (Mason, Gardner, etc). Our modern bias is to prefer well sourced surname books. One reason is that suggestions that the hoary texts might be wrong can be politically risky and at the least result in hostile emails. My little experience with Irish research is that neither 'side' wants its honored beliefs challenged, either within or without. In Northern Ireland surnames are, as much as history, the politics of ethnicity. Or some such term.... Surname books are also written for different purposes. Here I'm talking about fairly scholarly works as opposed to the ones intended to preserve or express ethnic, clan, or national identity. There were some of those written back in the early 1900s that claimed a huge number of the Scotch Irish as Irish, sparking off a battle or two. I'm just happy when I can identify a Glenns surname. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Carey" <johnca@quickclic.net> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 10:51:15 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field Marilyn and Linda I imagine that the MacLysaght book that Linda is using is The Surnames of Ireland. It was first published in 1985. As she said, Milligan is not listed there. Another of his books is Irish Families Their Names , Arms and Origins that was first published in 1957. Milligan is not one of the names dealt with in the main parts of this book as well. However, among the Appendices to this book there is one listing other Irish surnames rarely found outside particular counties or baronies. Milligan is listed there in connection with Antrim and South Derry but he doesn't say the source of this information. Unfortunately, that's one of the frustrations with MacLysaght. John Carey -----Original Message----- From: scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:scotch-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lmerle@comcast.net Sent: November-14-11 10:19 AM To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field Hi Marilyn, I do find Milligan in Black "Surnames of Scotland". This is one I'll have to blame on the Irish! (Joke). Ie MacLysaght doesn't mention it. Usually Black is considered 'definitive' for Scottish surnames. MacLysaght is rarely accorded that same high esteem among the Irish, as I have learned on various lists. He has to compete with several earlier documenters of Irish surnames, some quite early. The same lists discuss who is the truest but of course it varies with the poster and I also think who you are trying to research. No doubt McL and his associates are great for those researching the Irish, but unfortunately, especially for those of us researching in Ulster, that may not be the case. Besides these two books I have an "English" surname that also has a lot of Scots, Welsh, and Irish names, which is why I said "English" and not English <grin>. However I don't have the time to look up all this. Often Bell "Book of Ulster Surnames" will give you a summary of what McL, Black, and Reaney and Wilson (my English surname book) say. Bell does say Milligan could be either Scots or Irish. This illustrates one of my main points: always look up the surname. I should add, in the right book <grin>! And I should take my own advice and follow it compulsively to avoid screwing up. Did you find the McCoy, etc? or where to check? Browse from http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/NIR/Scotch-Irish.html down to Nov. 2011. If I am hallucinating and didn't do them, let us know. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn Otterson" <rosiedoggie@myfairpoint.net> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:47:37 PM Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field Hi, Linda.....hey, I got a DNA test, even found an Armstrong cousin in Co. Tyrone although he wasn't interested in swapping ancestor stories. His ancestors are from the same tiny townland...it's only a 25 match, but with the location and all, it seems pretty positive. His cousin sent me photos of the old (wrecked now) farmstead. Milligan is also a Scottish name...they say that she always swore she was Scottish, but then everybody did that. We don't know where Milligan and Field came from for sure, but assume Milligan was Fermanagh as that is pretty close to where my Armstrongs lived in Tyrone. We finally found the Milligan graves in a Boston area cemetery. Of course they were hard to find...one stone was only "Mother" and the other was "Father." It took a Milligan researcher to find the stones among some of the offspring, but we still can't find where they came from. You might remember that I asked about those folks before....they went back to Ireland and then back to the USA through Liverpool to Quebec to Boston. We could never find ships' records in Boston because they didn't come in that way. Sorry I missed the McCoy and Armstrong stuff...Termonmagurk area of Co. Tyrone. You mean the list archives? I am surprised I missed that although this has been a beastly year and I had to let the genealogy stuff mostly slide. Hoping to get back to it. Cheers, Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: <lmerle@comcast.net> To: <scotch-irish@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field > Hi Marilyn, McKay and Armstrong are done. Check archives.....amazed! > You aren't reading every single one of these <grin>!!! > > Nada for the other two. Mulligan of course is Irish, a Donegal sept, > though now found in Mayo and Monaghan. Because as MacLysaght says > "much reduced at the time of the Plantation". I think by that he means > "mostly killed. " Field? Was his first name "Green"???? Sorry, bad > joke. The Irish didn't tend to take locative surnames but it is > possible his Irish name sounded like something...Or he was English. > McLysaght says... bingo! (Oops that was me).... could be Fehilly or Maghery. Fehilly is a Connacht sept. > An Mhachaire 'of the field' is one of the few 'cognomina' taken from a > place of residence. It is found in Co Limerick in the 1300s, but ... > it takes the form Field in Armagh. > > Maybe you need a DNA test <grin>. > > Linda Merle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marilyn Otterson" <rosiedoggie@myfairpoint.net> > To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com > Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 8:47:45 PM > Subject: [S-I] McCoy, McKay, Armstrong, Milligan, Field > > Hi, > I just dropped into the list today as I have been involved in a couple > of other projects and have let genealogy slide. > > Now I see McKoy and McKay and now I am interested. I never pass up a > chance to ask this group questions and now I am wondering a bit what > is going on. > Anyway....Armstrong, McCoy (or sometimes McKay), Milligan and Field > from Co. > Tyrone. If anybody sees those names, I'd love to know about it. > > Thanks, > Marilyn > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Kathy, only a couple Knox's at Derry in 1641/2. Defenders of Derry Major General John Percy Kirke A garrison commander with 20 years experience in Tangier. Commanded the fleet of 30 ships that relieved Derry. Killed at Athlone 1691. Maybe he was a local man. He's not mentioned in Bell or Brian Mitchell "Surnames of Derry". He's missing a wiki page too. Linda Merle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Scott" <kathy.scott@cheerful.com> To: scotch-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 7:02:40 PM Subject: [S-I] "Defenders of the Plantation of Ulster 1641-1691" KIRK Any Kirk's Thanks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCOTCH-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message