Hello Listers: Life gets busy and time marches on.... it is a new year and it has been quite some time since we have heard reporting from the Project Managers. I would hope that some time this week they may find time to jot off a note to let us all know where the project stands, what the latest news is, how things are going, and where the project is heading. Thank you to all the participants and volunteers for sharing information and sparking discussion. For some projects the join rate is slowing down. Is it just the holidays were here and focus was away from genealogy? Or are finances again an issue for those who may otherwise be interested? Take a look to your lineage and the cousins you know.... see if there are more lines that can be included in the testing. The more that join, the better picture we will have in the end of "where we came from." Yours Aye, Lauren List Admin

Hi folks, RE: ELDER DNA SURNAME project: Recently I was surprised to see that FamilyTreeDNA automatically re-arranged my DNA "public" menu -- Now has "Y RESULTS" along the top of the menus, to click for viewing charts as a separate page. See: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/elder They offered a Scotland/Ireland map (called Ancestors Map) on the "Y RESULTS" page, plus an option for separating the charts. I haven't figured out how to print out the new charts yet, but they have a color feature option, along the left side, so I chose a color for each group. I have group charts for 41 members: ELDER of FRANKLIN County PA --Haplogroup R1b ELDER of PAXTANG (Harrisburg, PA)--Haplogroup I or Isles- I1b2a1 PETER ELDER of VA, R1b WILLIAM ELDER (Catholic) of Emmitsburg, Maryland, R1b OTHERS See also, ELDER names divided and coded on "Scotland DNA" - YDNA results chart by Katherine Hope Borges, where she color-coded the division of ISLES-I1b2a1 for ELDER of Paxtang PA. See: http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/scotland/dna.htm Another Borges chart for R1b - COLLA UAIS--as Founder Scots DNA for ELDER of Franklin Co PA (matches with SUTHERLAND). Nancy Elder Petersen Vancouver, WA USA Host, ELDER DNA project --- confido@ix.netcom.com wrote: > Hello Listers: > Life gets busy and time marches on.... it is a new year and it has > been quite > some time since we have heard reporting from the Project Managers. > I would > hope that some time this week they may find time to jot off a note > to let us > all know where the project stands, what the latest news is, how > things are > going, and where the project is heading. > > Thank you to all the participants and volunteers for sharing > information and > sparking discussion. For some projects the join rate is slowing > down. Is it > just the holidays were here and focus was away from genealogy? Or > are > finances again an issue for those who may otherwise be interested? > Take > a look to your lineage and the cousins you know.... see if there > are more > lines that can be included in the testing. The more that join, the > better picture > we will have in the end of "where we came from." > Yours Aye, > Lauren > List Admin Nancy Elder Petersen, DAR member #833222 7808 NE 51st St, Apt. 139, Vancouver, WA 98662 USA Phone:360-882-1039 E-mail: NancyElderPETERSEN@yahoo.com or nancyp@teleport.com ELDER Genealogy: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~nancyelder/RobToJos1807Will.htm

Here's my last post from a Scottish discussion on Genealogy DNA, happening now. First of all, a big thanks to John MacEwan for his excellent summary of the *genetic* evidence. I continue doggedly, because I really want to make sure I understand everyone's positions. People like Lochlan, Mark and Rob are proposing theories for all of us with an interest in the genetic genealogy of Ireland and Scotland to test, and indeed they are playing a role in organizing tests. --- First, John said: "We then move to the relatively high frequency of R1bSTR19 (Irish) in Scotland. In my opinion this is clearly related to the Dal Riadic migration and possibly earlier shifts from Ireland." Concerning which I want to raise question. I was not conscious of this evidence of Irish immigration perhaps because our own clan has no cluster 19 Scots. It helps me understand Mark. I'd like to ask Mark for his feelings about which types of families have this haplotype, which is of course now associated with at least some Ui Neills. --- Another comment of John: "it is simply not credible to propose R1bSTR47, was a rare Irish haplotype that invaded Scotland and thrived in the last 1500 years. This does not explain its substantial numerical presence in England (even if only it is 3% of R1b there) nor its current observed diversity which is highest in England." Again this answers an important question of mine, and raises more. Could the pattern be explained by a particular family within an older British haplotype, having a sudden "thriving" *within* Scotland? --- Lochlan asked: Is the Scots Modal group the same thing as the Colla Uais group promoted by the MacDonalds? Answer: Yes, in John MacEwan's useful analysis it is cluster 47. --- Lochlan wrote: I personally continue to be baffled by the utter disappearance of the Picts in Scottish history. Where did they all go? Andrew: I do not see how anyone can say that they disappeared, either in written history or in genetics. We can't say they disappeared in written history because we know that Gaelic became the dominant language and that's that. We can't say it disappeared genetically because we don't really know the which genetic types are *not* Pictish. What I think is most baffling about many of these old names (Picts, Belgae etc) is the way that they refer to moving targets - which is of course what we should expect. I'd say a similar thing to Mark, who says he sees no sign of the Belgae in Ireland. We see lots of haplotypes, but mostly we can't give ethnic names to them. So why would we expect an obvious sign of Belgae? I'd certainly encourage Lochlan to try to build up a case! Lochlan: what of the other tribes in Scotland and northern Britain referenced by Ptolemy? Weren't all these supposed to be Picts as well? Or is the term Pict overly broad as used by most historians? And who were the Epidii? One book I read considered them a P-Celtic or Brythonic speaking tribe, mainly because of the "p" in their name. Other writers see in the term the Pretanic Isles a reference to the Picts. If so this population group must at one time have been dominant in most of Britain and Scotland, just as O Rahilly tells us they were in Ireland as the Cruithin. Andrew: It is interesting that, if I understand correctly Roman and Greek authors also gave Irish place and tribe names with "p"s in them. For those who do not know, the letter p does not exist in native words in old Irish, but it does appear in Welsh. However it appears that for some time Celts understood that the p's in Welsh and the c's in Irish were the same letter. Perhaps they even pronounced them in some intermediate way. Patrick in modern Irish is Cadraig I believe. And this brings us to the Cruithin. Rob proposes that this refers to a particular tribe. Others see it as a simple Irishization of Briton/Pretan, which is said by many to mean the same as Latin "Picti", and refers to the general British habit of body painting or tatooage. However confusion is inevitable in Ireland and Scotland where Pictish regions and tribes were contrasted with Gaelic ones, because the word was sometimes being used to particular tribes and regions, and sometimes being used to refer to thing generally British. In any case, as I understand it the term Cruithin, or a related word, *was* used in Irish to refer to things British, as well as their local Cruithin tribes? (I know I've had this explained to me before by the way, so sorry if I've missed something.) --- Lochlan mentions "Iovepvia by Ptolemy" I guess this is transliteration from Greek, perhaps Ionernia? Best Regards Andrew Lancaster MacLea/Livingston project -----Original Message----- From: confido@ix.netcom.com [mailto:confido@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2006 6:27 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Time to hear from the Project Managers Hello Listers: Life gets busy and time marches on.... it is a new year and it has been quite some time since we have heard reporting from the Project Managers. I would hope that some time this week they may find time to jot off a note to let us all know where the project stands, what the latest news is, how things are going, and where the project is heading. Thank you to all the participants and volunteers for sharing information and sparking discussion. For some projects the join rate is slowing down. Is it just the holidays were here and focus was away from genealogy? Or are finances again an issue for those who may otherwise be interested? Take a look to your lineage and the cousins you know.... see if there are more lines that can be included in the testing. The more that join, the better picture we will have in the end of "where we came from." Yours Aye, Lauren List Admin ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx