I've been following with interest the recent posts on Norman / Celtic / Pictish DNA signatures. While I agree that these are all firmly within R1 and possibly R1b Haplogroups - ( with a possible I haplogroup signature from Noble Norman ( ex Viking ) - there do appear to be some intriguing variances within the group. Can anyone explain in greater detail the importance of different results at DYS447 and differing 390/391 pairings. I understand that these are slow mutating markers and as such wonder whether these can be used to begin to identify possible sub - clades within R1b. Such enquiry may - in time allow the various Celtic - Proto Britannic sub groups to be differentiated. !? If any one has a scientific reasoning to disprove this hypothesis - do please tell me and put an end to me barking at the foot of some very tall trees. A table showing my own results and comparisons along these lines is available at: http://www.dowie.org/DNA%20Results.htm#Dowie%20Haplotype Regards Neil