David, Thanks for that "heads up" on what might be a scam. I might have fallen for that one. I have the results of a SMITH cousin in the U.S. Northeast SMITH Project; and we don't have a match at this time. FTDNA has estimated our Haplogroup to be E3b. I have even searched Sorenson; I saw a couple fair matches at 19/22 to guys in the Mormon records. They are identified by "AFH", and "AFN" codes; but I cannot find any details for figuring out when nor where their ancestor was (might have been). Suggestions welcome from anyone. Kay Chestnut ----- Original Message ----- From: David Rorer To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 4:33 PM Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Pickish DNA The following came to me from another list. It was originally published in Eastmans Online Genealogy Newsletter and I am reposting it to this list for everyone's interest. There is a link to the original publication, from which Eastman took his story, at the bottom of the message. I am surprised that Eastman published this story; it comes from a source which is on a par with supermarket tabloids and so obviously appears to be a scam. Aside from the dubious claim of being able to identify Pickish DNA (no one has actually been identified as a Pict for at least a millennium) and the outrageously high test fee, anyone at all familiar with Scottish history would know that Scottishness has far more to do with heritage than genetics. Many of the leading families of Scotland (Comyn/Bruce/Stewart) originated in Normandy; others, (MacDonald/MacDougall) have Norse antecedents and no one questions their Scottishness. It is no surprise to find that most of Orkney had Norse ancestry, since it and the Hebrides were part of the kingdom of Norway for centuries and heavily settled from there. The Scots themselves came from Ireland c. 500-600 and when the various territories that became the kingdom of Scotland finally coalesced into one polity it included not only Picts and Scots but the Britons of Strathclyde (which included Cambria) and the Angles of Lothian (ruled at times by Northumbria). After than, in the half century between 1100 and 1600, there were the numerous foreign soldieries (Danish, Norse, French, English, Spanish, Irish, Welsh even German and Lowlander) who were part of the various armies that fought in Scotland and, as soldiers will, left samples of their DNA behind. Unfortunately there will probably be a number of people who will pay this excessive amount for an extremely dubious report. It's too bad that Eastman ran this story and gave it, however tenuous, a touch of legitimacy. David Rorer > /The following article is from Eastmans Online Genealogy Newsletter > and is copyright 2006 by Richard W. Eastman. It is re-published here > with the permission of the author. Information about the newsletter is > available at / http://www.eogn.com <http://www.eogn.com/>/./ > * > > - So You Think You're Scots? > > * > > Help is at hand for the millions of people around the world who claim > to be Scottish. A new test will be able to prove if that's just > wishful thinking or if someone really has a Caledonian connection. A > leading scientist has developed a "Scottishness" test that searches > people's DNA to trace their origins. > > Geneticist Dr. Jim Wilson is offering the #130 ($245 US) diagnosis, > which determines how Scottish people are. He has identified a genetic > pattern which can determine whether a person is descended from > Scotland's ancient inhabitants, the Picts, and can test people for > traces of their genes. Dr. Wilson says he wants to target Americans > eager to seek out their Scottish ancestry. > > You can read more about this story at http://tinyurl.com/m499n ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== Per agreement with Rootsweb, there can be no marketing messsages for any laboratory. No specific costs can be stated on list. These questions can be responded to off list. ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

All, I don't quite know how to begin this posting. I'm floored to see such a series of postings. Of course there are no Picts living that can be tested. However, DNA can point to where one's lineage originated even by clarifying a lack of other connections. For instance, if one has a good documents back to Northwestern England in the 1100's, AND one has no DNA connections back to the Norse, back to the French, the Romans or any other invading country, then there's a compelling argument that one might be a descendant of the very early settlers of England, such as the Picts. No, no picts currently are living in England, or are they? I have signed my project up for EthnoAncestry's test based on SNP testing they're conducting looking at distant ancestry that an r1b haplogroup is simply too broad to solve. Many of our descendants, based on markers in the FTDNA tests, are showing a high probablility of what EA is calling the S21 subgroup which seems to be showing connections to the ancient Sinclair Earldom lines. Their S29 may be pointing to Viking invaders. Only the test will prove if it's accurate, that and more participants. I recommend this group look into the test with interest. While no one can promise proof of descent from certain ancient peoples, we can learn enough from what the results show (and what they don't show) to begin to form educated hypotheses. I offer as evidence the FTDNA project to look for descendants of the Jewish Priest class, i.e. descendants of the Levis and Cohens. EthnoAncestry is in no way a scam. Jim Wilson and David Faux are highly respected DNA professionals. David will, for certain, be mortified to learn of such a series of postings. He's been contributing to the greater collection of knowledge on DNA testing for many years now. Please, I ask you, stop this line of postings until you learn a great deal more about the gentlemen offering the test, their history in DNA and their incredible credibility in all matters of genealogy. Kind Regards, Steve St. Clair www.StClairResearch.com > David, > Thanks for that "heads up" on what might be a scam. I might have > fallen for that one. > I have the results of a SMITH cousin in the U.S. Northeast SMITH > Project; and we don't have a match at this time. FTDNA has estimated > our Haplogroup to be E3b. > I have even searched Sorenson; I saw a couple fair matches at 19/22 to > guys in the

One should be aware that this could be duplicate testing for people who already have YSTR results before ordering the new test. 21 of the 27 YSTR markers Ethnoancestry has in their Pictish DNA test are included in the 37 marker FTDNA test. DYS 425 is included in FTDNA's 67 marker test, but nearly all R1bs have an allele of 12 at this marker. DYS 425 and the other 5 markers are available from DNA Fingerprint, which has now merged with FTDNA. All of these markers, except DYS425, DYS434 and DYS435, are included in testing conducted by Sorenson Labs, which includes DNA Heritage, Relative Genetics and SMGF. What we need is to uncover is the haplotype Ethnoancestry has labeled Pictish. Since Dr. Wilson is located in Edinburgh and has conducted extensive DNA testing on the local population using various grants and programs from government and private sources, he is a prime candidate to achieve a break down the Haplogroup profile of the Scottish and English population. David Faux has indicated in the past he would share results of the genealogy related DNA testing conducted during the studies conducted by Edinburgh University. Hopefully we still have that opportunity in our future. John Carr On Aug 26, 2006, at 7:47 PM, N & K Chestnut wrote: > I have the results of a SMITH cousin in the U.S. Northeast SMITH > Project; and we don't have a match at this time. FTDNA has estimated > our Haplogroup to be E3b. > > Kay Chestnut