Dear John: Not having located an original message on this thread, I feel as if I have stepped in, mid conversation. Is someone proposing a DNA Project based on inhabitation of each County in Scotland? Honestly, and I am certain that others will disagree, I do not see the value/merit in DNA studies based on such limited geographic areas, especially in modern times. Remote areas, such as Iceland, or the Orkneys & Shetlands may have more to tell as the population was more stable over a very long period of time. However, I must admit to not understanding how the study of DNA of a population of a more mobile area can lead to anything beyond chaos. The ones that particularly boggle my mind are those being established for counties or cities in the USA that have a diverse population. The USA only has a history of some 229 years.... DNA and surnames being trackable over a period of 1,000 for males... and mtDNA for women, going back 10-50,000 yrs. With the Scot DNA project already embracing all of Scottish descent, I also see such a project as being somewhat duplicative in scope and magnitude. My gut feeling is that it will only be even more confusing to those that look to DNA as the item that will absolutely solve their genealogical questions, without having done the usual documentation and research. There are far too many of us that also have a brick wall or six and family legends, but no proof of from whence we came in these more recent times... say 100-300 yrs. I recall several years ago the DNA community changed the nomenclature from being tagged by geography to other tags, such as R1b. Perhaps this change is what makes non-professionals in the field and neophytes to genetic genealogy feel all the more strong about establishing geographic projects for their areas of interest. I don't know. Yet I do understand the desire to have a more definitive answer to the age old question of "where did I come from?" I think that we can agree that people can and indeed do begin projects for any reason and in some instances no apparent reason at all. However, does that make the projects viable? Do they indeed provide *meaningful* data? Are they appropriately managed by someone or a group of someones with an appropriate understanding or working knowledge of both DNA and Genealogy? Is there someone on board to handle the analysis and statistics? Is there any adherence to Scientific procedure ? Is there someone on board that has a good working knowledge of the History of the area? Of the genealogy and solid knowledge re documentation, source citing and primary documentation? Perhaps it is my background as a Project Assistant and having worked to support Scientists that provides me with a more skeptical view and perhaps more desire for sound science along with documented genealogy. DNA projects take a lot of energy and time to manage. Could this group perhaps put their energy and time to ... I don't want to say "better use"... but a more suitable phrase is not coming to mind. Perhaps finding a niche in an existing project to assist with analysis and speculation? Seems more productive to me than a possible further splintering of what, in my perception, is a more viable large geographic project, such as the Scot DNA Project. Again, the Genealogy portion of all the projects is the most difficult to obtain. We can all do cheek swabs in a hot second. However the documentation takes years and considerable effort to enable us to come to more valid conclusions when analysing our DNA data. Those of us that have been involved in genealogy for any length of time realize that we are all on different levels of learning, as our needs have arisen, and that even seasoned genealogists will cringe when facing an example of their early research, before they had figured out what they were "really" doing. And yet, we continue to work to refine the genealogical record. DNA is a new and exciting tool in genealogy. However, it still must have the hard trail in order to "tell the story" beyond "yup, we're cousins." I, for, example, could say that based on History, my Boyds *must* have come from Kilmarnock, Scotland, or perhaps the Isle of Bute. However, I can only prove back to County Antrim, Scotland in the 1800s. That is insufficient data to draw any solid conclusion with. And were I to have my uncle's O'Connell sample, based on family lore -- again, difficult genealogical walls exist, I can only narrow to "Counties Cork, Clare and Kerry." Again in the 1800s. My mtDNA, I can track back to the 1700s in Bavaria... which maybe somewhat closer to the "Northern European" origins of my Hapliogroup. However, that is still only 2-300 yrs out of 10,000 or more. And my surnames will never track with mtDNA. They just do not. Surprise of surprises was that my former housemate and I both had our mtDNA tested. We turned out to share the same Ancestral Mother, as I also do with Bennett Greenspan. However, if you ask any of us our origns, you will get three different answers from our maternal lineages. This is still a new field that we are pioneering. It is exciting indeed. I just hate to see the waters muddied. Well, you've got my nickle's worth.... blast away. :) Yours Aye, Lauren Scot DNA List Admin