Hi John and all, I have a question - The St. Clairs have good documents research back to about 600 AD in Norway. Naturally, there were some non-paternity events during that 1,400 years, and they're beginning to show up in the results. We have a project going in which 30 people have tested, most with 25 or more markers. About 6 of the participants are in Scotland or Ireland. According to most people I talk with, and the FTDNA site itself, you're not related unless you match with distance of 2 or less. This seems suspect as we go further back in time. I'm wondering if a paper trail is as old as ours, would it not make sense to look for matching at distances of maybe 3 or 4. By the way, we're all R1b, probably making it even more difficult for us. For those who are interested, the project is at www.stclairresearch.com Thanks, Steve

Steve: There are better qualified people on this list... but IMHO there are several guidelines that are valid: a: The main issue is the question of mutation rates and at which marker ( allele). There are some markers that are proven to mutate at almost twice the standard rate. The standard rate is about .002 for most. If you take a rate of .0023 to .004 then you get a "normal" mutation at about 250 years. That can account for a difference of 2 or even 3 steps in your case of 1400 years. There is also a question of the direction of the mutation. Taking a case of one allele mutating down the scale ( 12> 11) and another 300 years then goes up ( 11>12). So your test results on that marker could vary from none to 2. b: I usually prefer to use a "sum of the squares" method. So if you take marker # 1 = 1 steps , Marker # 2 = 2 steps Then you would square Marker # 2 = 4 and the sum = 5. In your case above that would still be within bounds of saying that there is a potential relationship. The probability tables would define that potential for you ( especially if this is a 37 marker test results. Sounds like a really interesting project with the combination of genealogy records and an active DNA group engaged. Best Regards John A Hansen -----Original Message----- From: steve@planetcentral.com [mailto:steve@planetcentral.com] Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 6:23 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCOT-DNA] How far back Hi John and all, I have a question - The St. Clairs have good documents research back to about 600 AD in Norway. Naturally, there were some non-paternity events during that 1,400 years, and they're beginning to show up in the results. We have a project going in which 30 people have tested, most with 25 or more markers. About 6 of the participants are in Scotland or Ireland. According to most people I talk with, and the FTDNA site itself, you're not related unless you match with distance of 2 or less. This seems suspect as we go further back in time. I'm wondering if a paper trail is as old as ours, would it not make sense to look for matching at distances of maybe 3 or 4. By the way, we're all R1b, probably making it even more difficult for us. For those who are interested, the project is at www.stclairresearch.com Thanks, Steve ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx