Dear Stuart: Well.... I don't know about looking for love in all the wrong places ( wasn't that a country western song :-)..... but you and Ian should start calling each other "cousin ". The question now is to compare your paper trails and ancestry reports. Good Luck and Happy Hunting John A Hansen -----Original Message----- From: Stuart and Doreen Brown [mailto:studor.brown@ns.sympatico.ca] Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 4:49 PM To: jahansen@brigadoon.net Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] How far back Hi John: I just happened to open the message that you had sent to Steve and was amazed at the closeness of the DNA of S5 Ian Alexander Sinclair to my own DNA. There were 4 1 marker differences. Does this mean that I have probably been looking in the wrong place for contacts? I am Haplogroup R1b. The following is my DNA test results as done by Family Tree DNA 393 13 390 24 19 14 391 10 385a 11 385b 15 426 12 388 12 439 12 389-1 13 392 13 389-2 29 458 19 459a 9 459b 10 455 11 454 11 447 25 437 15 448 19 449 30 464a 13 464b 15 464c 16 464d 17 460 11 GATA H4 10 YCA IIa 19 YCA IIb 23 456 16 607 15 576 19 570 18 CDYa 36 CDYb 37 442 12 438 12 The closest I have found have been the Livingstone - Boggs families and Munroe families. I would appreciate any suggestions or explanations that you can offer to help me find my ancestors. As far as I know my immediate ancestors came from Scotland where my Dad and Grandfather were born. My Dad, Peter Donabie Brown was born 29 June 1880 in Glasgow. Stuart Livingstone Brown - Cornwallis Nova Scotia Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "John A Hansen" <jahansen@brigadoon.net> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 1:49 PM Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] How far back > > Steve: > > There are better qualified people on this list... but IMHO > there are several guidelines that are valid: > a: The main issue is the question of mutation rates and at > which marker ( allele). There are some markers that are > proven to mutate at almost twice the standard rate. The > standard rate is about .002 for most. If you take a rate of > .0023 to .004 then you get a "normal" mutation at about > 250 years. That can account for a difference of 2 or even > 3 steps in your case of 1400 years. There is also a question > of the direction of the mutation. Taking a case of one allele > mutating down the scale ( 12> 11) and another 300 years > then goes up ( 11>12). So your test results on that marker > could vary from none to 2. > > b: I usually prefer to use a "sum of the squares" method. > So if you take marker # 1 = 1 steps , Marker # 2 = 2 steps > Then you would square Marker # 2 = 4 and the sum = 5. > In your case above that would still be within bounds of saying > that there is a potential relationship. The probability tables > would define that potential for you ( especially if this is a > 37 marker test results. > > Sounds like a really interesting project with the combination > of genealogy records and an active DNA group engaged. > > Best Regards > John A Hansen > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: steve@planetcentral.com [mailto:steve@planetcentral.com] > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 6:23 AM > To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SCOT-DNA] How far back > > > Hi John and all, > > I have a question - The St. Clairs have good documents research back to > about 600 AD in Norway. Naturally, there were some non-paternity events > during that 1,400 years, and they're beginning to show up in the results. > > We have a project going in which 30 people have tested, most with 25 or > more markers. About 6 of the participants are in Scotland or Ireland. > > According to most people I talk with, and the FTDNA site itself, you're > not related unless you match with distance of 2 or less. This seems > suspect as we go further back in time. I'm wondering if a paper trail is > as old as ours, would it not make sense to look for matching at distances > of maybe 3 or 4. By the way, we're all R1b, probably making it even more > difficult for us. > > For those who are interested, the project is at www.stclairresearch.com > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ > Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting > anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx