I don't think thats the case Jim, although I agree that the 12 marker is not a good indicator other than a distant possibility. I am baffled by the fact that some of your Gordon matches at 25 didn't hold up to the 37 marker resolution, but doesn't that just indicate a younger/older branch of the Gordon line rather an entirely different line? The last 12 markers at 37 are known to mutate quickly than any other. What I meant to say is that if there is some convergence at 25 markers then surely these Gordons share an ancestor with you be it x years ago. In the Roberts Bahamas project, where it was known that they all shared a common ancestor 300 years ago. Some of the lines were only 21/25 with each other, never mind at the higher 37 resolution, and these Roberts' are not close to anyone else Worldwide. Rule of thumb is that the 12 marker is the tree, 25 the branch and 37 markers the twig. Regards Howard Wayne Roberts jimgordo1@aol.com wrote: > > > Colin --Since whwn does adn 11 out of 12 match prove anything beyond a > dim possibility of a relationship between the testers? There were four > of us Gordons matching on both the 12- and 25-marker. It took the > 37-marker to indicate that one of us was from an entirely different > line. To show ANY kind of dsecendancy, more makers are needed -- the > more the better, unless the 25-marker throws it all out. > > Cheers, Jim Gordon > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email > and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ > Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting > anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Howard, Jim Your "rule of thumb" is correct, but the particular combination of 11 markers that Colin is pointing to is unusual enough that it is at least worth noticing. (Try www.yhrd.org or smgf.org) You should also have noticed that both Colin and I expressed a wish that more markers were tested. Concerning your Gordons who don't match at 37 markers, I think it is relevant to ask whether these Gordons have very common haplotypes or not. If they are all close to WAMH for example, then I would see no special reason to think them closely related - which is one of the reasons FT DNA now has 67 markers available. Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Howard Wayne Roberts [mailto:wayne@connectfree.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, 11 July 2006 3:31 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] MacWho and The Bruce I don't think thats the case Jim, although I agree that the 12 marker is not a good indicator other than a distant possibility. I am baffled by the fact that some of your Gordon matches at 25 didn't hold up to the 37 marker resolution, but doesn't that just indicate a younger/older branch of the Gordon line rather an entirely different line? The last 12 markers at 37 are known to mutate quickly than any other. What I meant to say is that if there is some convergence at 25 markers then surely these Gordons share an ancestor with you be it x years ago. In the Roberts Bahamas project, where it was known that they all shared a common ancestor 300 years ago. Some of the lines were only 21/25 with each other, never mind at the higher 37 resolution, and these Roberts' are not close to anyone else Worldwide. Rule of thumb is that the 12 marker is the tree, 25 the branch and 37 markers the twig. Regards Howard Wayne Roberts jimgordo1@aol.com wrote: > > > Colin --Since whwn does adn 11 out of 12 match prove anything beyond a > dim possibility of a relationship between the testers? There were four > of us Gordons matching on both the 12- and 25-marker. It took the > 37-marker to indicate that one of us was from an entirely different > line. To show ANY kind of dsecendancy, more makers are needed -- the > more the better, unless the 25-marker throws it all out. > > Cheers, Jim Gordon > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email > and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ > Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting > anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx