MACDONNELL (CLAN DONALD, MARTIN & MCIVOR - ISLE of SKYE "CONNECTIONS?". WILLIAM MACDONNELL, died 1841(?), Off-set Printer, Dublin, and CATHERINE MCIVOR, died 1837(?), were married c1813. They had at least these children:- William Jnr, b.1814; Ivor, b.1823; Edmund, b.1826, Dublin (my line). They all followed in the printing business (13 Anglesea St, Temple Bar) before leaving Dublin to England (Ivor), and the other two to Australia. They had among the first 'Jeweller' shops in the colonies: - Sydney, (Brush & Macdonnell); Brisbane, (Flavelle Bros - Edmund, Mng Partner); & later in Melbourne (W. Macdonnell & Co). Any other children went to...?? Before turning to printing, William was most likely also the Papermaker, William MacDonnell with a mill at Templeogue, near Dublin. (and his father, William, was also a Papermaker, d. 1810). There was a large "dynasty" of M'Donnell family, 'master papermakers', in Dublin County 1750-1850 (12 mills & many stores/shops/homes in central Temple Bar, Dublin). Most famous is John (I & II) MacDonnell's "Swift! brook", Saggart - of 'Ancient Irish Vellum" {paper} fame. Some of them (eg, John/Joseph, of Saggart) descend from the Tinnakille branch, Queens County (ex-Antrim). They were the Leinster Macdonnells, three Galloglas Septs, kinsmen of the Earl of Antrim & that line includes a William of the right age as above. (ie, d.1810, but no definite proof yet of my line). I suspect both William & Catherine came from "Northern Ireland", eg Antrim, with ex-Scotland distant past- both names have Norse/Hebridean history. I'm a member of the FamilyTreeDNA 'Clan Donald USA' and 'Scottish Clans' DNA matching projects. I am Rb1. My so-called deep ancestry is "Icelandic/Norse-Scot" (my distant paternal line origin). My only close DNA match is to J. MARTIN, Alabama, also an 'Icelandic/Norse-Scot'. There is an extremely high 99.5% probability of us having a "most recent common ancestor", albeit way back to c.1200AD (in Skye?). I'm not trying to trace my male tree back to 1200AD and I know all Clan Donald men today are not the "seed" of Somerled or Colla. (I know the real history of "clans".) My main interests are finding which Western Isle we came from, what clan, my genetic trail. I'm very interested in Macdonnell history. MARTIN. : "Scottish: Anglicised form of Gaelic Mac Mhàrtainn or Mac Mhàrtuinn, formerly Mac Gille Mhàrtainn, a patronymic from a personal name meaning 'servant of (Saint'. Martins are numerous on Skye, (as are the McDonalds/Dhomnaill and McIvors/Iomhar), & Martins were actually a sept of the Donalds there. From Martin Martin's 1695 book§, it says "Martin's father Donald Martin, son of Gille-Mhàrtainn, son of Aonghas na Gaoithe, soldiered with the MacDonalds of Sleat under the Duke of Montrose." It adds, "He married Mary (Mairi), the daughter of Alasdair, brother of the Chief 'Domhall (Donald/Donnell) Gorm Og' of Sleat (on Skye). § Martin Martin "was, therefore, a cousin to the (Donald) clan chiefs of his day". I did further research & found that this Mary's grandmother was also called Mary (& Margaret) & was a 'Macdonnell' from Ireland of The (Antrim) Glens and she was married to Skye MacDonald chief, Archibald Cleirich MacDonald, C1575. (not the earlier Iain Mhoir, Tanis! ter of Islay/Kintyre/Antrim and heiress Marjory Bissett of The Glens.) These distant close "connections" between Martins and "Macdonnells" is very interesting, including that on page 5 it says that Martin Martin was a "Governor" (tutor) to Chief Dòmhnall a' Chogaidh of the Sleat (MacDonald) clan from 1681 to 1686. It's intriguing, but no conclusions should be made from the above at this stage, if ever. My 'Y'-DNA genetic journey is likely : - Iceland/Norway->Hebrides (Skye?)->Antrim->Tennekille->Dublin->Australia. As noted above, my GGGGrandfather William ("Icelandic/Norse-Scot") married a MCIVOR (also Norse Hebridean, Iomhar) and I see that various stats show McIvors as predominately from Isle of Skye. (McIvers mainly from Islay/Kintyre - right?). If any MacDonnell or McIvor has done research, which has a William MacDonnell circa years above, I would really appreciate your checking your tree to see if there is a Macdonnell (M'Donnell) marriage recorded to Catherine McIvor - or any links as mentioned in above 'clues'. Or any thoughts of where! to go next? (Dublin 1921 civil riot destroyed relevant records prior c.1800.) I guess I'm also looking for any comment or points anyone could add to my research/"case" - even general, viz :- "It's looking that around 1200 AD, Mr Jody Martin, USA, and my (common) male ancestor probably was from Skye. Its around that time that surnames were adopted :- "Since surnames did not become common practice in Britain until after the 12th century, two things must be true:- (1) The linguistic origin of the surname reflects the time and place where the surname was acquired, not necessarily the "deep ancestry" of who acquired it; (2) Since lineages precede surnames, the two cannot be identical. "Many persons of different lineages may have acquired the same surname, and many persons of the same lineage may have acquired different surnames". OR Taking into consideration that the Martins on Skye were a Sept of the Sleat MacDonalds (with later Macdonnell 'connection'), then history shows :- "There are several possible types of non-paternal event in addition to a p! regnancy gained outside of a marriage. For example, a (Martin) child may be adopted and given the Macdonnell name; a (Martin) man may take the Macdonnell name when he marries a Macdonnell daughter; a Macdonnell man may marry a pregnant woman whose (Martin) husband has died; a ('Martin') couple where the wife is the Macdonnell may choose to give their children the Macdonnell name for various reasons; clerical error in recording administrative data may assign a Macdonnell name to the wrong (Martin) person, and so on." (or vice-versa). THANK YOU ...Ian Ross Macdonnell, (Melbourne, Australia). PS : see http://www.clandonald.org.uk/cdm00/cdm00a11.htm - With tongue firmly in cheek, I have selected some extracts from Martin Martin's 'A Description of the Western Highlands of Scotland', written circa 1695 for readers considering joining the Chiefs' Hosted Tour of Skye and Uist in 2006 . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- § Martin Martin : 'A Description of the Western Islands of Scotland"; circa 1695; p. 4,5.