Russ Though I'm not linked to any Cooper, genealogically or genetically, I have taken interest in surname derivations regarding my own genealogy. There is a volume entitled "The Surnames of Scotland" by George F.Black (ISBN 1 874744831), considered by many to be the 'bible' or at least a starting point for surname studies. I use it, and other references, as a starting point because they often refer to many names as diminuative/petnames or occupational names, but with vague reason - for instance, my paternal name is Kidd, and it has been referred to as depicting "a seller of faggots", when it is just as likely that someone with surname Kidd/Kydd became known as the local faggott seller. Similarly, in reference a link with 'young goats' is just as obscure - maybe there was a goat herder who reared goats in profusion or had a character of frisky but gentle disposition; or, possibly, the name for a young goat had evolved from a farming family, by name of Kid, who already specialised in goat rearing. Several instances are 'chicken and egg' situations and none of it made much sense to me. It may well be that common trades are the seeds of surnames (eg Smith), but we should be cautious of that bandwagon. The subject matter does bear deeper investigation, especially when you realise many assume surnames began with the Norman invasion of 1066 - the Romans had a great naming system 1000 yrs earlier (http://www.answers.com/topic/roman-naming-convention?hl=aurelii), and many local Britons were Romanized, being directly exposed to Roman culture from 43-409 AD. When the Romans left Britain, the population was ripe for the adoption of surnames in the light of their well-organised predecessors. That organisation continued into Roman Catholicism and when priests/bishops travelled from Rome to spread Christianity to the Anglo-Saxon and Celtic pagan world following Anglo-Saxon settlement. Christianity had already spread through Roman Britain and Ireland, and the Celtic monastic version sprang from Northern Ireland and then Scotti Dalriada (based on Iona). King Oswald, many years exiled on Iona, brought Celtic Christianity to Lindisfarne and introduced Anglo-Saxon priests to the more ascetic Celtic version. Wholesale conversions occurred during that period and many surnames sprang out of the names of monks that administered baptism eg Aidan, Colman, Patrick, Cuthbert, Addie (from Adda), Beattie/Beatty (from Betti) and Kidd/Kydd (from Cedd). The work (~650 AD) of Cedd, Betti, Adda and Ceadd (pronounced Chad, younger brother of Cedd, pronounced Kedd) is well documented by Bede and many placenames trace the path of their mission. The letter 'K' was rarely used in Old English and, to bilingual Romanized Britons (Brythonic and Latin), the ecclesiastical language of monks (Latin) would have been easily understood. Many farmsteads became self-adopted Christian 'chapels', exempt from secular duties (eg taxation, some think as an early tax dodge), hence the Mercian-Anglian placenames Kedington, Keddington, Coddington, Cuddington, Kiddington, Kidlington, Caddington, Kidderminster (pronounced according to local dialect). The surnames simply evolved in the Roman style of adoption of the name of a cult (nomen gentile), and this later became the recognised family name (cognomen). I only give this as an example of misplaced interpretation of surname origin - surnames are assumed to begin ~1100 AD only because that's when documentation begins. Genetic studies (exact matches with different surnames) suggested my geographical origins might be the Bernician Borders, and that's where my surname study also took me. The northern English Brigantes tribe had a sub-group called the Textoverdi, whose territory was north of the eastern end of Hadrians Wall, in Velantia province of Roman Britain. They worshipped the proto-Celtic goddess Satiada (goddess of saturation ie water, springs, rain etc). Pope Gregory the Great (601 AD) had decreed, regarding the use (ie baptism) of local pagan temples/wells: "In this way, we hope that the people, seeing that their temples are not destroyed, may abandon their error and, flocking more readily to their accustomed resorts, may come to know and adore the true God" Bede relates, "So great is said to have been the fervour of the faith of the Northumbrians, and their longing for the washing of salvation, that once when Paulinus came to the king and queen in their royal palace at Yeavering, he spent thirty six days there occupied in the task of catechizing and baptizing. During these times, from morning till evening, he did nothing else but instruct the crowds that flocked to him from every village and district in the teaching of Christ. When they had received instruction he washed them in the waters of regeneration in the river Glen." Bearing this example in mind, I quote verbatum from George Black : COOPER, Coupar, Couper, Cowper. This surname occurs in one form or another in nearly every county of Scotland. The name was in most cases derived from Cupar in Fife, but the occupation of 'cooper' has also contributed to its origin.The earliest record of the name is territorial, when dominus Salomone de Cupir appears as a charter witness in 1245. The name, also, is common in early Fife records from the 13th to 15th century, additional evidence of its local origin. An instance pointing to the occupation as the source of the name occurs in 1329 when payment to "Alanus Cuparius" (ie the "cooper") is recorded. John Cupar held land in Aberdeen, 1281, Christian Cowper who held lands in Ravenysden near Berwick in 1275 may have been a relative of Symon Coupare of Berwickshire who rendered homage in 1296. Michael Couper was tenant in Vill de Butyll,1376, and William Coupare had a tenement in Irvine, 1426. Thomas de Cupro, canon of the church of St Andrews, 1406, Patrick Culpar (the 'l' is silent), witness in Aberdeen, 1468, appears in 1477 as Cowlpar and his wife as Cowlper. Finla Couper in Belnakeill, Atholl, was fined for resetting outlawed Macgregors, 1613. Patrick Cowper in Tilliemad, 1634, and Helen Copper in Keltie, 1672 (Dunblane). William Cowper, the poet, writing to Mrs Courtenay, one of his friends, says: "While Pitcairne whistles for his family estate in Fifeshire, he will do well if he will sound a few notes for me. I am originaly of the same shire, and a family of my name is still there". Coupar 1479, Couppar 1662, Cowpar 1500, Cowpare 1512, Cuper 1286. Kidd has many surname variants in the Northumbria-Roxburgh area, and it is likely that the Norman invasion displaced many of the local families - like the Beatties, they aligned with Malcolm/Margaret against the invasion, settling in Fife and Dundee. Later displacements arose from Border dispersals of the 16th/17th century. Another point I would like to make is that the Romans employed ancilliaries from many regions, including Sarmatians. Your haplotypes may originate from pre-Norman continental Europe invaders (Roman, Anglo-Saxon, Dane), who were later displaced by the Normans. Regards Derek Ham ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Cooper" <rcoop7255@adelphia.net> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 5:41 AM Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Cooper DNA Project at FTDNA > We have watched the increasing discourse of trying to find Scottish > locations with DNA and hopefully with genealogy paper trails. Coopers we > are not a Clan but an occupation beginning. However in FTDNA, Coopers have > 130 donors in a well run Cooper Project where results are grouped by > matches and include excellent paper trails in the USA also reported. > Getting across the Pond has been difficult. Our Coopers are very probably > Anglo-Scot-Irish, because of the Border Wars Dollarhide speaks of in his > books. Many Border people moved back and forth over the border to avoid > the many king's wars. Thus surname beginning locations are more difficult > to nail down. > Currently we have three Cooper lineages with good matches which > start with Haplogroup J [J is England and J1 is Scotland], followed by > Alleles of 12, 23, 14, 10, 15, etc. matches. We are a distinct group with > these marker matches appearing to originate in England. However two of our > lines begin in the USA in Salem, Washington Co., NY in a > Scotch/Scotch-Irish Presbyterian Covenanter ssettlement beginning in 1764. > Our family marriages are with Hamilton, Crawford, McFadden, McFarland, > McEachron, Creighton, Hunter, Hanna, Harsha, McGilvra, Harrison, Wilson > and we are connected with the Duguids and Coopers of Aberdeenshire. > Supposedly we came from Cootehill, Co. Cavan, N. IRE, but this was a > stopping off place probably only for about 10 to 20 years on a Plantation, > but from originally both Scotland and England. For my John [1748-1803] and > apparently his brother George [abt 1753-Abt 1825], they could come from > Aberdeenshire or maybe Northumberland, as can be noted in the IGI. Then > closely associated [living next to each other and signing family documents > for land, wills, etc.] is a Joseph Cooper [1733-1819], who came from > England to Ireland and then to Salem. For the John and George lines we > have definite DNA matches, but also with a James from probably England to > NJ. We are requesting a Joseph Cooper descendant to donate a DNA sample to > FTDNA soon, to help us find our roots. These are focused DNA efforts. > But we are very interested in those of you, who we could communicate > with for info such as the Crawfords. My 4th GG Archi [Harrison > wife}Crawford came from Bruteshire and his father John [Wilson wife] from > Renfrewshire. It is this type of info we would like to furnish to various > surnames listed above to see if we can find some paper trails that > connect. In fact the Crawfords and the Duguids came to Steuben Co., IN > with the Coopers and have lived there together. > Can we have some correspondence, because this kind of cooperation > can usually payoff.? We placed our marker data in the SMGF and only got 7 > out of 19 marker matches, the highest and the related paper trails were > from the Ancestral File, which are very poor, something known from long > ago. > Unfortunately we leave tomorrow for Rochester and Boston for > Christmas Holidays, but will be back December 29th where in we will be > fully involved corresponding. > > Russ Cooper [216-397-1195 or cell phone 216-224-3572] > 2755 Derbyshire Road > Cleveland Heights, OH 44106 > Founder of NorthEast-Ohio - Computer-Aided-Genealogy ten years ago. Go to > our Website <NEOCAG.NET> > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > Have questions about lab cost? Contact the Project Manager, > John A. Hansen, directly at dnaclans@brigadoon.net and he will provide a > private answer. > Want to join the Project? Visit: > http://www.ftdna.com/surname_det.asp?group=Scottish-Clans&projecttype=G > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > >