Hello Bob, Tei and Everyone, I visited your Forbes Project site and noticed that most of your participants are Haplogroup R1b, with a few Haplogroup I. I had my father's y-DNA 37 markers tested at FTDNA and he is Haplogroup I1b2*. I'm responding to you and to Tei Gordon's question about any Clan Chief's DNA results. My direct paternal lineage is that of the FINLEY's, which go back to and beyond Macbeth. By way of example: _http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cafamilies/finley/ancient-rts.html_ (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cafamilies/finley/ancient-rts.html) "...There are _several genealogies_ (#sources) which trace the Finley line back to _Macbeth_ (macbeth.html) (1005-1057). The ruling family from _Macbeth_ (macbeth-rts.html) back to _Erc (430)_ (#erc) has been documented by historians in many places. Erc was the last ruler in Ireland before the Scots moved to Scotland...It obviously gets less accurate the further back you go since it is based on myth. According to _The Milesian Legends_ (http://members.aol.com/lochlan2/legends.htm) the Scots originated in _Scythia_ (http://www.geocities.com/dtmcbride/hist/world/scythia.html) , an area between the Black and Caspian Sea in what is now Southern Russia, (2,400+ BC - 1,800 BC) and came to Scotland via Galicia (Spain) (1,800 BC - 1,700 BC) and Ireland (1,700 BC - 500 AD)...." Clan Finley was outlawed after Macbeth's death. They took the name Farquharson and did not emerge from obscurity as a clan until 1236 when Archibald distinguished himself at the battle Largs. Warmly, Linda Finley Rogers-Fefferman Cathedral City, Calif. FLFeff@aol.com Y-DNA Haplogroup I1b2* (of the A type, or I1b2*-A) (DYS455=10, 454=12) DYS448=19 subcluster ySearch.org ID# JYWUE Ybase.org ID# KLWG8 Relative Genetics ID# Z087384 FamilyTreeDNA ID# 52850 (FINLEY) Finley Surname Project: _http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/f/findley/pats.html_ (http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/f/findley/pats.html) Y-DNA Haplogroup Tree 2006 per International Organization of Genetic Genealogists Archaeological "A(dam)" A - M91 to BR - SRY10831.1 (SRY1532), M42, M94, M139, M299 (55,000 years ago N.E. Africa) CR - M168 (50,000 years ago), M294, P9 (common Ancestor of all people who migrated out of Africa, mutation occurred 31-55,000 years ago) F- M89 (45,000 years ago), P14, M213) IJ - S2, S22 (?second wave out of Africa to Middle East 45,000 yrs ago) I - M170 (22,000 years ago) M258,P19(DYS 388=13) Europe/Scandinavia 12K yrs ago I1 - P38 (DYS 426 = 11) (P38 equivalent with, M170, M258, P19) I1b - S31 to I1b2 - S23, S30, S32, S33 to I1b2* - S23+, M223-, S24- (old I1b2* x cluster / I1x ) ( * =DYS 455 = 10*, DYS 454 = 12*) Genealogist since 1978: Tracing 300+ surnames including: Armstrong,Arndale,Canaday,Chapman,Davis,Ennis,Gross,Mueller,Newman,Phyfer,Ford, FINLEY,Rogers,Sherman,Singleton,Smith,Terhune,Thompson,Westlake In a message dated 9/1/2006 5:33:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bforbes@carolina.rr.com writes: And Clan Forbes, for another, as shown in the Forbes Project website sponsored by FTDNA: http://www.familytreedna.com/(arttel55gkvtw5b2muxq30ao)/public/forbes/index.as px Interested parties please go to the "Y Results" tab, be patient for a few moments, and then you will see the color-coded y-DNA results from some 25 group members. "Group 1" represents those related in some way to the Clan Chief's line, represented by the current Master of Forbes who kindly agreed to submit to a 25-marker test. IF stats from this small sample group are any indication, it appears that up to 30% of males with the Forbes surname may be paternally connected to the original Forbes lineage, if that line is indeed represented by Master Malcolm Forbes's DNA, as we strongly suspect it is. I'd personally be really pleased if some of you with much more knowledge of the various markers, their mutations, and connections to Celtic roots, took the time to peruse this line and speculate on its origins, which appear to be much more "Irish" than "Scottish" if we believe the claimed roots of its members. The Irish nature of Forbes yDNA is consistent with Clan legend, for the progenitor is said to have sprung from a group of Irish lords who were sent to Scotland to help "police the Picts" circa 1200 AD. Several of us have submitted our yDNA markers to the SCOT-DNA project, where my own markers (FTDNA ID #3037) appear to line up with surnames like Stewart and Johnson, in addition to Forbes. Interestingly, I had my first 37-marker match (but w/ 4 mutations, I think) with someone outside the Forbes Clan a few days ago, and his surname is Ferguson. Coincidentally, one of the first given names from within the Clan Forbes around 1300 AD was a man named Fergus! Again, if someone wants to take a look and speculate on this old Scots line (which the DNA folks say is largely Celtic with Iberion roots), pls be our guest! Robert H. (Bob) Forbes, Jr. bforbes@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <dmcduke@comcast.net> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Clan Chief participation > Yes, Clan MacMillan for one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tei A. Gordon" <tagordon@hotmail.com> > To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 4:31 AM > Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Clan Chief participation > > >> Just curious whether there are any Clan Chiefs represented in any of our >> DNA >> projects? >> >> >> >> Tei A. 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