A while ago I posted the title "No news is bad news" and was resoundly scolded for doing so this list is not meant for such purposes. Now I see my old mail title is still being used for a lot of Kiddology, perhaps we all need to get our subject lines correct. Ps a friend of mine of the surname Fish has tested Y12 and found the haplogroup J2 and his roots are in the Scottish borders, but I mentioned to him a program was on TV recently about King Arthurs Knights of the round table, that his Knight probable originated from horsemen from Hungary brought by the Roman legions to Britain as there cavalry and descendants of the Hungarian cavalry are still to be found in the border region perhaps in some way adding to the gene pool of the borders much reputed Horsemen. My friend agreed with this hypothesis as his haplogroup confirms an origin around Hungary, and his grouping represents only 6 per cent of the British population. J McPherson Jimmy McPherson

Hi Jim Totally agree. My haplotype matches many Borders surnames, having MRCA ~2000 yrs ago. The ranked possibilities are, as you say (a) Origin from the Celtic Rhineland (eg Batavians), from Roman auxiliary soldier stationed in Northumbria/Hadrians Wall and (b) Dalriadan Scotti (c) AN OTHER SNP results show R1b1c*, so I've invested in the S-series tests at Ethnoancestry (possibly distinguishing R1b1c* sub-groups in eastern Europe). At present I put the odds at a:b:c=50:30:20 If the S-series result (back in February) is positive, (a) is more likely, if negative then (b). Then we move on to the next (as yet undefined) set of resolution tests..... My conjecture regarding surname origin is independent of the genetic strand and merely a cultural overprint, relating to proximity in place/time and other aspects I've researched over the past 5 yrs. The Cedd Conjecture also offers the possibility that the Kidd surname arose in multiple areas throughout England. One specific area is Soham, Cambridgeshire, reported (by paper trail) as the origin of most American Kidds (from an early emmigrant to the USA, Thomas Kidd). The MRCA here is likely to be of Anglo-Saxon stock. Soham is 20 miles from Kedington, where an Anglo-Saxon cross (called the Kedington Cross) was discovered, indicating possible ecclesiastical links to Cedd. In fact, the FTDNA Kidd project has several small haplotype clusters and multiple surname variants (most of which are eastern Borders origin). My opinion over the listing issue (not aimed at personalities or intended to be antagonistic) is that: Social debate is important over general issues such as genetic (MRCA) and surname origins, because we are the 'drivers' at the forefront of this research - achievements of the past were without the benefits of Y-DNA analysis. The alternative is to simply have a spreadsheet of numbers relating to haplotypes etc, without any interpreation or debate; as soon as an opinion/interpretation is expressed, it is likely to foster debate. What is the point of a list if it does not communicate interpretation and lobby questions, as well as reference facts? There is a valid point not post opinions if they simply involve specific 1:1 personal questions about genealogy and specific individuals in one's family tree, because who else would likely have an interest? But anything that links to possible general interest in Y-DNA/surname studies may be of widereaching implication. If personal research impacts upon those generally debatable issues, it should be freely aired and referenced in a positive way to add value, without antagonism. In that way we stimulate thought and consider possibilities - How else can we hope to progress? Best wishes for further innovative progress and a Happy Christmas Derek ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Mcpherson" <lergiechonie@toucansurf.com> To: <scot-dna@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:59 AM Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Who are you Kidd-ing Cedd or Chisholm? >A while ago I posted the title "No news is bad news" and was resoundly >scolded for doing so this list is not meant for such purposes. > Now I see my old mail title is still being used for a lot of Kiddology, > perhaps we all need to get our subject lines correct. > > Ps a friend of mine of the surname Fish has tested Y12 and found the > haplogroup J2 and his roots are in the Scottish borders, but I mentioned > to him a program was on TV recently about King Arthurs Knights of the > round table, that his Knight probable originated from horsemen from > Hungary brought by the Roman legions to Britain as there cavalry and > descendants of the Hungarian cavalry are still to be found in the border > region perhaps in some way adding to the gene pool of the borders much > reputed Horsemen. > > My friend agreed with this hypothesis as his haplogroup confirms an origin > around Hungary, and his grouping represents only 6 per cent of the British > population. > > J McPherson > > Jimmy McPherson > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SCOT-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >